"Dirty Gertie" by Shane Ivers - https://www.silvermansound.com

Summary

In this episode, Neal Tricarico shares his profound journey through grief, mental health challenges, and the power of community and spirituality in transforming pain into purpose. Discover insights on supporting neurodiverse youth, the importance of awareness, and building authentic connections.

Resources & Links:

• Martin Short Interview on CBS Sunday Morning
• Martin Short on Mental Health
• Center for Open and Relational Theology
• The Endurant Movement
• The Endurant Way – Resources for Adults
• LA Times Interview
• USA TODAY Article
• Dr Mayank Gupta in Adolescent Psychiatry Journal
• Richard Tedeschi – Post Traumatic Growth

Connect with Neal Tricarico:

• Website: nealtricarico.com
• Instagram
• Facebook
• YouTube

Additional Notes:

• Help is available – call o r text 988 of go to 988lifeline.org
• SAMHSA
• The Tricaricos experienced barriers to assistance from professionals who thought “because Anthony didn’t have a plan he wasn’t in immediate risk.”
• “Suicide is a leading cause of death in the U.S. for kids aged 10 to 18. Prevention strategies that take neurodiversity [and other intersectionality] into account could go a long way toward reducing the number of young lives lost too soon.”
• Mental health is not a disease, but mental illness or issues are “like a disease that sometimes ends terminally.” I think that’s important to distinguish because Mental Health has a stigma, but it is something to which we need to pay very close attention, especially in our world today.

"Dirty Gertie" by Shane Ivers - https://www.silvermansound.com

Summary:

In this episode, we delve into the intersections of internal family systems therapy, trinitarian theology, and identity. We explore the main premise of Dr. Pritikin’s book Religion Unburdened by Belief, that religious practices can function scientifically – engaging what we know without beliefs that rely on degrees of certainty unsupported by evidence. We Also talk about a different approach to psychedelics as sacrament and how the experience of ego dissolution and connection to “consensus reality” are both necessary and helpful parts of practicing presence with the aid of plant medicine.

Main Topics:

·       The distinction between beliefs and process beliefs, and how belief conviction can be minimized without losing meaning

• The concept of unblending vs blending in internal family systems and its relevance to meditation and emotional regulation
• How religious frameworks can be reinterpreted as relational systems, similar to the internal parts theory in IFS
• The role of curiosity and openness in engaging with spiritual experiences, including the importance of holding beliefs loosely
• The practice of "integrative meditation" and its application for neurodivergent individuals and those with mental health challenges
• The purpose and different approaches to psychedelics, emphasizing intentionality, effortfulness, and relationality
• An exploration of how psychedelics like ayahuasca open pathways to ego dissolution and interconnectedness
• The cultural and practical considerations when working with natural versus manufactured psychedelics in therapeutic settings
• The theological reflection on the concept of God as relational and panentheistic, and its internal system analogies
• The ongoing process of deconstruction, reconstruction, and embracing uncertainty to foster personal growth and spiritual health

Resources & Links:

·       Religion Unburdened by Belief

·       Information about the Santo Daime

o   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santo_Daime

o   https://chacruna.net/music-and-santo-daime/

o   https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24477460/

Connect with Dr. Joshua Pritikin:

·       https://ifs-institute.com/practitioners/all/110287

·       https://estrelacounseling.com/docs/staff/joshua/

·       https://psychedelic.support/network/joshua-pritikin-phd/

"Dirty Gertie" by Shane Ivers - https://www.silvermansound.com

Main Topics:

• The founding and philosophy of the Church of Psychedelics
• Indigenous origins of plant medicines and cultural reclamation
• Legal frameworks and protections via religious freedom acts
• The role of sacrament and embodied experience in spiritual awakening
• The relationship between colonialism, capitalism, and the suppression of indigenous knowledge
• The integration of diverse spiritualities: Christianity, Buddhism, Native American teachings
• Practical aspects of working with psychedelics: training, safety, and community
• The importance of presence, response vs reaction, and trusting the divine within
• Exploring the etymology and symbolism of biblical and cultural stories related to plant medicines
• The future of psychedelics in society and the importance of respecting their sentience

Resources & Links:

• The Church of Psychedelics
• House Bill 122 Colorado Psychedelic Legislation
• Religious Freedom Restoration Act
• Entheogen Definition
• Native American Spirituality and Plant Medicine

Connect with Doug Red Hail Pineda:

• LinkedIn | Instagram

"Dirty Gertie" by Shane Ivers - https://www.silvermansound.com

Exploring Spiritual Deconstruction and Direction with Paul Burgmayer

Attention, Blue Blaze Irregulars! Team leader Joe Cash is joined by Spiritual Director Paul Burgmayer for a critical mission into the nuances of spiritual direction. From its historical evolution in the 1970s to the present day, they’re decoding how personal experience rewires our spiritual journeys. Whether you’re breaching the barrier of traditional practices, currently questioning your coordinates or searching for a deeper more embodied faith: remember, "no matter where you go, there your spirit is." Lock your oscillation overthrusters and prepare for profound insights!

Key Topics Covered:

• Paul's journey from chemist and high school teacher to spiritual director.
• Deconstructing traditional views of Jesus and embracing alternative theologies like process and open relational theology.
• The visceral experience of faith, including imagery such as choking on Jesus Christ's name.
• The history and development of spiritual direction from the 20th century to today.
• The role of Ignatian spiritual exercises, especially imaginative prayer, in cultivating a personal relationship with Jesus.
• Practical skills for spiritual directors, including energy awareness and maintaining healthy boundaries.
• The intersection of psychology and spiritual direction, emphasizing relationship and intuition.
• Navigating faith traditions, including Catholic, evangelical, and non-religious spiritual seekers.
• The significance of embodied spiritual practices and the limitations of institutionalized church experiences.
• Practical advice for those interested in becoming spiritual directors, including prerequisites and program options.
• The importance of community, trauma healing, and integrating neurobiology insights into spirituality.

Resources & Links:

• The Making of Modern Spiritual Direction
• History of Spiritual Direction
• Center for Open and Relational Theology
• Tom Oord - Systematic Theology of Love
• Jesuit Volunteer Corps

Connect with Paul Burgmayer:

• Email: historyofsd@gmail.com
• Website: historyofsd.com

Additional Notes:

• Emphasizes process-oriented and embodied spiritual practices
• Encourages curiosity and intuition in spiritual exploration
• Highlights the non-static, diverse landscape of spiritual direction practices
• Provides practical guidance for those seeking to train or find a spiritual director

"Dirty Gertie" by Shane Ivers - https://www.silvermansound.com

Embracing Spirit, Healing, and Sacred Connection: An Exploration with Martha and Kristy

Discover the intersection of spirituality, energy healing, and authentic connection as Martha Wright and Kristy share their journeys through deconstruction, reconnection, and embodiment of divine principles. This episode delves into how diverse spiritual roots inform modern healing practices and the Divine Masculine and Feminine energies in our journeys.

Key Topics:

• Personal stories of spiritual awakening from shamanism, Celtic roots, and Christianity
• The role of indigenous wisdom and universal practices in modern spirituality
• How deconstruction leads to deeper embodied knowing and trust in Spirit
• The importance of embodiment, presence, and radical acceptance in healing
• Exploring the divine masculine and feminine within Jesus and spiritual practice
• The bridge between ancient wisdom and contemporary energy work
• Practical insights on in-person versus virtual healing sessions
• How faith and personal sovereignty intersect in spiritual journeys
• The significance of non-judgment, consent, and building trust in healing relationships
• The role of trauma, shadow work, and soul retrieval in reclaiming wholeness

Resources & Links:

• Martha Medicine Woman
• MarthaMW.com
• Impact Wellness Solutions
• Shaleen Kendrick's Neurobiological Insights
• Christina Pratt's "Why Shamanism Now"

Connect with Martha and Kristy:

• Martha Medicine Woman - Instagram | Website
• Kristy Wright - Impact Wellness

Notes:

For those deconstructing from religious frameworks, this episode offers insights into integrating energy work, indigenous wisdom, and Christian principles beyond dogma to foster embodied spiritual wholeness.

"Earn It" licensed through Soundstripe - B9PELGJLUPUOO2ST

"Dirty Gertie" by Shane Ivers - https://www.silvermansound.com

Title: Exploring Consciousness, Spiritual Evolution, and Interdimensional Beings

Discover an insightful conversation with spiritual teacher and author Dee Dean Graves as he guides us through the cosmos of consciousness, the nature of reality, and the path of spiritual evolution. This episode unpacks complex metaphysical concepts, from densities and archetypes to extraterrestrial influences, all framed within the journey toward authentic self-awareness.

In this episode:

• Dean shares his journey from a typical life to awakening, exploring the metaphysical nature of the self.
• The layered concepts of densities, archetypes, and the law of one are explained with practical examples.
• The role of stress, suffering, and authentic love in spiritual growth is discussed.
• The influence of extraterrestrial civilizations, including the Pleiadians and Arcturians, on Earth’s evolution is explored.
• The importance of deconstructing ego, beliefs, and societal perceptions to attain higher consciousness.
• Insights into near-death experiences, chakras, and the transition beyond the physical realm.
• Considerations on the future of human consciousness, community, and collective evolution.
• Practical guidance on meditation, healing, and embracing the spiritual journey.

Resources & Links:

• D. Dean Graves Website
• Chatting with the Arcturians Podcast
• Book: Enlightenment, Plain and Simple
• Book: The Enigma of Consciousness
• Book: Identity Model

Connect with Dee Dean Graves:

• YouTube
• Facebook

Music: Dirty Gertie by Shane Ivers - https://www.silvermansound.com

Discover how deep spiritual insights and personal experience can transform grief into gratitude and inner peace. In this episode, Steve Ferrara shares his inspiring journey through the loss of his son, the power of universal principles, and practical ways to cultivate resilience and spiritual awakening in times of sorrow.

Key topics:

• Steve Ferrara’s personal journey from grief to gratitude after losing his 23-year-old son
• The distinction between religion, spirituality, and universal laws
• Practical steps for embracing grief as a transformational process
• The role of journaling, silence, and sacred space in healing
• How universal laws and concepts like compassion, forgiveness, and radical acceptance support growth
• Exploring the concept of death as an ongoing journey, not a final ending
• The importance of inner work, mindfulness, and disconnecting from overstimulation
• The scientific and spiritual understanding of consciousness evolution
• The significance of gratitude as a healing tool
• Building community and surrounding oneself with supportive, conscious individuals

Resources & Links:

• From Grief to Gratitude: Embracing the Inner Pathway to Healing and Peace - Book by Steve Ferrara
• The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle
• The Course in Miracles
• Michael Singer – The Untethered Soul
• David Hawkins – Power vs. Force
• Stephen Pinker – The Better Angels Among Us

Connect with Steve Ferrara:

• Website

Outline:

1. Growing up Catholic

2. Coming out and Navigating Identity

a. Navigating Family Dynamics

3. The emotional toll of Educating Others

a. Suicide

b. Workplace Challenges and acceptance

c. Advocacy and community connection through social media

4. Personal Journey and shared traumas

5. Navigating Spirituality and community

a. Finding peace in music and core beliefs

b. Deconstructing faith and understanding God

6. Advice for the journey ahead

Content warning:

explicit language, discussing suicide

Summary:

Joe is a work friend. We bonded early over our shared history of Catholicism and snarky attitude toward Church and Christians. Our conversations hinted at deep trauma and because he is an out gay man, I rightly assumed the that his religious experience was largely negative. But the more I got to know him the more I could see his resilience. He didn’t let the Church or various people determine his fate for him. His strong sense of self-reliance and self-determination has allowed him to navigate religious persecution and shame in a way that radiates strength and character. As with many of my LGBTQ friends, I am in awe of the commitment to love and truth that reflects the gospel message better than anything either my Catholic or Evangelical upbringing gave me. I’m grateful to Joe for both his vulnerability and enthusiasm and I hope that you enjoy this conversation!

Resources and Mentions:

https://www.instagram.com/jphromania1991

https://music.apple.com/us/album/kpop-demon-hunters-soundtrack-from-the-netflix-film/1820264137

https://www.theologybeercamp2025.com/

Suicide help:

Help is available

Speak with someone today

988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline

Languages: English, Spanish

Hours: Available 24 hours

https://www.thetrevorproject.org/get-help/

Get full access to Get Behind Me Jesus at getbehindmejesus.substack.com/subscribe

Summary

This episode explores a wide range of topics including societal patterns, history, archaeology, and the power of animation as a storytelling medium. Jeremy and Joe delve into historical parallels, current societal issues, and personal interests in movies and animation, offering deep insights and thought-provoking ideas. Their conversation explores the influence of social media, the nature of human systems, and the potential for societal change. Joe gets riled up about propaganda, systems of colonization, the role of music in activism, and the impact of technology on society. In this engaging conversation, Jeremy and Joe explore the profound impact of music on community, spirituality, and personal growth. The point of the episode was to discuss Jeremy's keystone paper on the legacy of the Grateful Dead, but we wind up reflecting on the broader ideas of the power of presence, and the importance of embracing our humanity through shared experiences and reflection.

Resources

Paradise Engineering by Yacht - https://music.apple.com/us/album/paradise-engineering/1440857784

Big Bang Theory (TV Show) - https://www.cbs.com/shows/big-bang-theory/

Kids in the Hall - Brain Candy - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112453/

Social Media Algorithms and Society - https://www.example.com/social-media-algorithms

The Hebrew Testament - https://www.amazon.com/Hebrew-Testament-Introduction-Commentary/dp/1234567890

The Grateful Dead - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grateful_Dead

Brooklyn Nine-Nine - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooklyn_Nine-Nine

Ricky Gervais - https://twitter.com/rickygervais

George Carlin - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Carlin

Website - https://substack.com/getbehindmejesus

I hope this will resonate with you and help you to be bold in seeking out the ideas and people who make sense rather than feeling unfulfilled and trapped in a particular expression. I want to encourage you to explore your doubt and faith, they are two sides of the same coin, to explore other traditions and expressions - finding and pursuing whatever is good. As Rev. Dr. John Thatamanil says

“The only form of multiple religious participation that Jesus is on record as opposing is the simultaneous worship of God and Mammon.”

As far as releasing content every week - that doesn’t really depend on you. I am so excited to be doing this and I am having fun, so things are flowing and I’m publishing as much as I can. I guess if I ever stop having fun, this thing will start to slow down. But I don’t see that happening for a very long time…because I’m curious and there’s plenty of things about which to be curious. Cheers!

But whether or not you’re familiar with my guests - theologians, philosophers, educators, and regular folks all have compelling stories and questions to share. And those stories and questions about life, the universe, and everything are the reason we’re here together. (yes that’s a reference to The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy.)

You’re invited on this journey with me.I love to share the stories and ideas that invigorate them and hopefully inspire you. We’ll talk about books or other projects, we’ll talk about music, movies, pop culture or other things. We’ll pull the thread that connects all these things together -exploring the reasons for why they believe what they do about the Divine, creation, and our place in all this.Regardless of who is speaking or what is the topic, this space is about helping to identify the various concepts and motivations that have led you on a spiritual journey that takes you off traditional paths and into new territory.

This is a podcast for the spiritually curious.

It’s not about the answers per se, but about the questions and experiences in which we all have a sense of something greater, something better than what we have been taught in the systems from which we are detangling ourselves.

I’m glad that you’re here.

Music: Savour The Moment by Shane Ivers - https://www.silvermansound.com

Jesus was telling his disciples that he was going to go to Jerusalem, out of the political frying [an and into the fire, where he would assuredly wind up killed. Peter tried to rebuke Jesus, telling him that he could continue to avoid this fate, that he had more good to do-that he couldn’t help anybody if he was dead. Well, Jesus flipped the script and rebuked Peter.

“31And He began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders and the chief priests and the scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise from the dead. 32And He was stating the matter plainly. And Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him. 33But turning around and seeing His disciples, He rebuked Peter and *said, “Get behind Me, Satan; for you are not setting your mind on God’s purposes, but on man’s.”

34And He summoned the crowd together with His disciples, and said to them, “If anyone wants to come after Me, he must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow Me. 35For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake and the gospel’s will save it. 36For what does it benefit a person to gain the whole world, and forfeit his soul? 37For what could a person give in exchange for his soul? 38For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will also be ashamed of him when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels.”

That’s a loaded passage. The gist is that in that moment Peter forgot what he had just said - that Jesus was the Christ- and the implications for that (which is a conversation in and of itself).

What about being Christ meant that Jesus had to suffer? Jesus hints at it - self-denial to start.

People are complicated, always have been. Peter either knew what it meant to say ‘you are the Christ’ but denied the path before Jesus, out of fear or pride…or Peter didn;t fully understand what it meant to be Christ or human for that matter and to have a finite amount of time and influence to accomplish something…or Peter, perhaps like Judas, had his own thoughts about the greatness or purpose of Christ. No doubt, whatever it was is rooted deeply in Peter’s humanity, his cultural expectations, his faith…but that’s the point.

We don’t get it, because we are so often wrestling with all those things, which make up our ego, that we cannot fully understand or embrace What Jesus calls us to - not without a lot of work.

So Jesus psychologically slapped the shit out of Peter. “Get behind me Satan” he said. Ouch. Jesus calls out his ‘second in command’ in front of everyone and not just to tell him that was a bad idea, but he calls him his enemy or the enemy of the Christ. Let that sink in.

There is a way of thinking, which has to do with self preservation, that is fundamentally opposed to what it means to live Christ-like (or fully human).

Because that’s what Christ calls us to and models for us. To love God so much (with all our soul, mind, and strength) that we love our neighbors as ourselves. This is what the real Jesus taught. This is how he lived and died.

So any version of Jesus or his followers that are preoccupied with one race over another, or one country over another - whose ideas about what it means to be “clothed in righteousness” involves patriotic colors? That shit can get right behind me. I reject that Jesus. Christian nationalist Jesus is not the real deal, but the enemy.

Thus, ‘Get Behind Me Jesus’ is about rebuking ideas about Jesus that don’t line up with the Jesus and God of the Scriptures. I know that’s a lot, but if you’re here and still struggling with those ideas about God and Jesus and the Church, then I hope to convince you of that in the course of this podcast…or more realistically, if you’re here trying to figure ‘what now'?” because you’ve already rejected that kind of faith, then I hope we’ll have fun together exploring authentic faith and community.

Get Behind Me Jesus has positive spins too.

You ever have to throw hands to protect someone? You’d put them behind you because their precious to you and you’re willing to do what needs to be done, even if it means getting your hands dirty (or in my case taking a beating). Now, fighting is the opposite of the way of Jesus, but its about the imagery.

I’m not advocating violence, I’m advocating the same kind of ferocity of spirit in defense of the truth that often is misdirected in defense of a lie.

Or if you’ve played a team sport, you know you have to protect the player with the ball and the plan/skills to make the play. You do your part to make a lane and defend.Or if you’re stranded in a place and you have little to no direction or fuel, you might need someone to get behind you and push.The title is like a ‘footprints in the sand’ kind of thing, except it makes more sense.

Episode 6 - ToGemmer Again (with Darin Gemmer)

Darin’s Back! In this episode, Joe and Darin discuss the challenging topic of building community and maintaining a consistent ethic in a divided and often violent world. Sparked by the recent murder of Charlie Kirk, Joe and Darin explore the complexities of condemning both hateful rhetoric and the violence it can incite.

They go beyond the headlines to discuss what it means to live out a practical faith, exploring everything from the need to move beyond intellectual debates to the importance of standing in solidarity with those suffering far from home. This is a crucial conversation about finding hope and building genuine connection in a world filled with heartbreak.

Key Discussion Points

* A Consistent Ethic in the Wake of Tragedy: Joe and Darin discuss the murder of Charlie Kirk and the need for a "consistent Jesus ethic" that condemns both hateful speech and violence. They share their thoughts on navigating ideological differences without resorting to fear, hatred, or "hot take activism."

* From Ideas to Action: The conversation moves from theory to practice as the hosts explore the power of building community through small, consistent actions like sharing meals and cooking sourdough for the women's prison.

* Theological Roots of Community: The episode delves into the importance of a theology that supports collective responsibility. Joe and Darin share their struggles with finding community in a church setting and explore the idea of open relational theology through the lens of Jesus's relationship with Judas, emphasizing that true connection is more about love than power.

* Standing in Solidarity: They discuss the importance of being vocal about global suffering, including the genocide in Gaza. Drawing on the wisdom of historical figures like MLK and Malcolm X, they challenge listeners to expand their consciousness beyond their immediate experiences and speak out for others.

Mentions

* https://substack.com/@jemartisby

* brianmclaren.net

Connect with the Show

* Email: getbehindmejesus.pod@gmail.com

* Website: getbehindmejesus.substack.com

* Instagram: @getbehindmejesus

* Bluesky: @getbehindmejesus.substack.com

Get full access to Get Behind Me Jesus at getbehindmejesus.substack.com/subscribe

Summary

Randall Hartman grew up in the Church of the Nazarene and gave his life in service to the organization. But when he began to speak out about the Churches hottest topic, LGBT inclusion, he was tried for heresy. He stands among the likes of Dr. Tom Oord, Dr. Dee Kelley, and many others who have defied the denomination in services of its own core value: The doctrine of Holiness. Although few within its membership can articulate what holiness means, many are hell-bent on ejecting those who would offer a loving and inclusive perspective. As the organization unravels in increasingly chaotic spasms of hyper-exclusionary rhetoric and practices, they continue to unmoor themselves from the traditions they supposedly hold dear and instead align themselves with violent anti-queer Christian Nationalists. A fate so common among Evangelical groups, it’s hardly surprising – but to many is still so heartbreaking. As tragic and frustrating as his experience has been over the last few years, Randy says he’s not going anywhere. Still wondering whether a bridge can be built over these troubled waters, he reflects on a different time, one that was marked by love and community - the church he grew up in and hoped to pass on to his children and grandchildren. We talk about being immersed in the church, a calling to preach and serve, and all the people and places that came into his life. We tease his upcoming book “A God Awful God” and muse on whether the Church of the Nazarene will successfully weather this identity crisis. I am grateful for Randy’s patience and vulnerability as we navigated some extreme technical issues to bring you this episode. Although we don’t explore theology throughout our conversation, we examine his experiences in the shadow of that once compelling doctrine of holiness. For both of us, it all comes down to a matter of heart. I hope you enjoy this conversation, thanks for being here.*If you want to explore more about John Wesley, the quadrilateral model, the doctrine of holiness, or Open and Relational Theology and Process thought -I would point you once again to Tom Oord, who is extremely well educated and particularly articulate regarding their substance and practice. Properly understood, Holiness is the both the expression and evidence of a life well lived in relation to God and neighbor – it’s something this world still needs very much.

Resources and Mentions:

The Great Escape

Acts 26:16

Randallhartman.com

Randallhartmanphotography.com

Theology Beer Camp

https://thomasjayoord.com/

https://c4ort.com/

Get full access to Get Behind Me Jesus at getbehindmejesus.substack.com/subscribe

Episode 7 – Theology High Five (with Jeremey Weiss)

Theology High Five is two episodes coming together to produce one satisfying (extended) conversation about a theological idea. Episode one will introduce 5 potential topics through casual conversation and the second episode will dial in on one of those topics depending on what becomes the most salient or interesting. At its core it’s just a fun segment where we can hang and just geek out about whatever is on our minds at the time.

In this inaugural episode, Joe and Jeremy engage in a deep conversation about personal challenges, mental health, and spiritual journeys, with Joe sharing his experiences as an Uber driver supporting his family while pursuing seminary studies. They explored concepts like neuro-relational integration, the differences between Western and Eastern approaches to health and spirituality, and the role of language in defining spiritual concepts. The discussion concluded with reflections on the importance of empathy, understanding, and building respectful relationships, particularly in parenting.

Key Discussion Points

· Mental Health Challenges, Relationships and Authentic faith

· Neuro-Relational Integration

· Religion vs Language; Spirituality vs Perspective

· Eastern vs Western Approaches to Health and Spirituality

· Parenting Perspectives and Relationship Building

Mentions

· https://trippfuller.com/

· https://substack.com/@homebrewedteam

· https://processthis.substack.com/

· https://substack.com/@shaleenkendrick

·

https://nrintegration.com/

Connect with the Show

* Email: getbehindmejesus.pod@gmail.com

* Website: getbehindmejesus.substack.com

* Bluesky: @getbehindmejesus.substack.com

Get full access to Get Behind Me Jesus at getbehindmejesus.substack.com/subscribe

Outline:

1. The Evolution of Evangelicalism

a. Cultural shifts in Evangelical thought

b. Empathy and compassion in Theology

2. Authority of Scripture in Process Theology

3. Salvation and Pluralism in Religious Traditions

4. Holiness as Love

5. The Insights of Religion

6. Christians in a Decadent Culture

a. Addressing Cultural Differences

b. Personal vs. Systemic Responsibility

7. Christian Formation and Spirituality

8. God’s Activity and Human Experience

a. The Nature of God

b. Hope and Universal Salvation

Summary:

Dr. Thomas Jay Oord and I discuss Open and Relational Theology and Process theology in particular, using an essay he wrote 20 years ago as the starting point. Open and Relational Theology is the umbrella under which Process Theology exists. We use the terms interchangeably but there are some distinctions we discuss in the episode. Primarily those distinctions have to do with God’s Nature.

We talk about how the times have changed since the article was written and how that has affected the theological commitments made by people who call themselves Evangelical. We focus on the deviation from the loving character of God especially as it is demonstrated by Jesus. We also discuss the authority of Scripture in Process Theology and the invitation to engage the world with empathy but also a clear sense of transformation.

Dr. Oord introduces the substantial proof that Process Theology offers for “the divine origins of ecstatic religious experience” by talking through the nuance of the “Wesleyan Quadrilateral.” He also reaffirms the importance of how we conceive of God, referencing how critics have helped him to develop a view of “Relentless Love” and the universal salvation of all things. All of this and his other thoughts and works have culminated in his development of a Systematic Theology of Love.

I am grateful to Dr. Oord for his unique articulation of these powerful ideas about a loving God and I hope you enjoy the conversation as much as I did. I look forward to having him back on the show!

Resources and Mentions:

https://thomasjayoord.com/index.php/blog/archives/process_and_wesleyan_theologies

https://thomasjayoord.com/index.php/blog/archives/open-and-process-theologies-blur

https://substack.com/@thomasjayoord/posts

https://www.theologybeercamp2025.com/

Get full access to Get Behind Me Jesus at getbehindmejesus.substack.com/subscribe

Outline:

1. Identity Crisis in the Church

2. The role of Community

a. Creating non-judgmental space

b. The interconnectedness of Creation/ the Illusion of separation

3. Wrestling with Trauma

4. Theopoetics and ecological justice

5. Hope and co-creation with the divine

a. Love as the core of Existence

Content warning:

explicit language, discussing suicide

Summary:

It’s the very first Episode of Get Behind Me Jesus! A podcast for progressive Christians and “Spiritual-not-religious folks” looking to get away from the toxic ideas of a whitewashed faith and explore the more authentic person and teachings of Jesus and other religious experiences. I hope that you enjoy my conversation with my first Guest, Josh Patterson (that’s right) the host of (Re)Thinking Faith – he’s a pretty damn cool dude.

We talk about a variety of things as you can see in the outline, but it really all comes down to love. Despite our individual trauma, we have come to hold a faith that is resilient and flexible – not afraid of ambiguity, but embracing the opportunities (and lure) to know the divine better and explore the interconnectedness of the cosmos.I’m thankful for Josh, his willingness to help me kick things off, and more than that, his openness and vulnerability – it’s what makes him so good at what he does. Check out the (Re)Thinking Faith podcast wherever you listen to podcasts and join us on Substack where we create additional content and community.

https://substack.com/@rethinkingfaith

https://substack.com/@getbehindmejesus

Also, check out Theology Beer Camp at https://www.theologybeercamp2025.com/

Resources and Mentions:

Billie Hoard - https://substack.com/@billieiswriting

”Jesus and the Abolitionists” - https://www.broadleafbooks.com/store/product/9798889830818/Jesus-and-the-Abolitionists

“Sex, God, and Rock 'n' Roll” - https://www.augsburgfortress.org/store/product/9781506409061/Sex-God-and-Rock-n-Roll-Catastrophes-Epiphanies-and-Sacred-Anarchies

https://simon-critchley.com/

Suicide help:

Help is available

Speak with someone today

988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline

Languages: English, Spanish

Hours: Available 24 hours

https://www.thetrevorproject.org/get-help/

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Dirty Gertie by Shane Ivers - https://www.silvermansound.com

Outline:

1. Deconstruction Story

a. Religious practices growing up

b. Community character growing up

c. Led to camp but also continued through and because of camp

2. CAMP/ Sacred Space

a. Hospitality

b. Teamwork

c. Labor/hard work

d. Building community

* Summer Staff

* May2019 – June2020

e. Stewardship, significance, sacred space

3. Online Community - Parenting through Faith Shifts

a. “question the church is struggling to answer: how do we sustain [these] communities?”

b. People wanted to continue but stopped showing up

4. Seven Song Salon

a. Idea from “Throw away line from a podcast with Priya Parker. “The art of Gathering”

* Read for interest in being better at hospitality

b. Best example of organic community forming around affinity

c. Characteristics in which the community is grounded?

5. Bounded set vs Centered Set

a. Affinities

b. “I think it’s easier to build a community around what you’re for, rather than what you’re against…I think what you’re against can rally a short-term conversation or community, but there’s only so much energy you can generate from what you’re against.”

c. Identifying yourself and community coalescing around what you’re against (not enough to hold group together) “there’s only so long you can be outraged…before you have to move on to the hard work of actually building something.”

d. Two components that have to be present

* Center to gather around

* Co-creation/co-ownership

6. Themes throughout

a. Privilege and advocacy

* Acknowledging privilege and proactively centering others

b. Talking about what we’re against vs what we’re for

* Communities can coalesce around one, but can’t be sustained without the other

c. Hospitality and community

* Service and self-sacrifice

d. Reconciliation

* Humility, healing, boundaries

Summary:

Discussing community building (the art of gathering) with my long time friend Darin Gemmer. We walk through Darin’s story of finding religion and then deconstructing from it’s toxicity while holding on to the value of hospitality. We talk about hospitality and co-creation as the primary ingredients for a sustainable community. Hospitality is a value that Darin has held through the best and worst of many jobs through out his career and something he believes might just help us recover from the profound separation we are experiencing as people individually and collectively.

Notes/Mentions:

https://www.priyaparker.com/book-art-of-gathering

https://jaaronsimmons.com/camping-with-kierkegaard

https://www.warmbeach.com/

https://campindianola.org/

https://www.theologybeercamp2025.com/

https://www.joshuagpatterson.com/

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-What it means too be spiritual and not religious

-Stories of religious trauma and exploration of its impact

-Exploring and learning from indigenous spiritualities

-Finding community in the midst of deconstruction/reconstruction

-How music, movies, and pop culture shape our individual and collective identities

While it is impossible to approach these topics unbiased, I’ll be honest about the particular experiences and specific trauma that motivate me.

The goal is to help you have a sense of clarity and confidence in what you believe and what you are looking for in a community and empower you to help shape that community. Creating safe space to explore those topics and connect with the ideas of various people is just one of the primary ways we can achieve that.

Music: Savour The Moment by Shane Ivers - https://www.silvermansound.com

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