Jonathan and David of *Deformed Theology* sit down with Apollo Tull for a conversation that started with a name that made him do a double take, and landed somewhere much deeper: humility, unity across camps, and what it means to look at every person as an image bearer.

In this episode, the co-hosts unpack why they hit record in the first place — they were already the nerds having these conversations, felt the Lord say do it, and took the brakes off. They explain what "Deformed Theology" actually means: not mocking the Reformed, not claiming to *be* Reformed, but an ongoing examination of the things that warp how we see God, His Word, and His people. Citing 1 Corinthians 13, they frame the name as an admission that we see through a glass darkly — we don't yet know fully as we are fully known.

From there the room opens up: two kinds of people in the world, thinking of the unsaved as the "not yet," how wide God's love really is, Christian metal shows where the gospel reaches people who'd never walk into a Sunday service, the "prenuptial agreement" we try to cut with Jesus, submission as either slave to sin or hidden in Christ, and the aroma of Christ.

Warm, pastoral, and deliberately non-combative — this is gospel conversation for people tired of us-versus-them Christianity.

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In this conversation, Magdalene shares the long road that got her here: growing up in a band with her sisters, marrying into the Seventh Day Slumber family, and turning her hardest season — a years-long fight with anorexia and depression — into the song "Teeth Eater" and a movement of people getting matching tooth tattoos to mark their own recovery.

We talk about the prayer that changed everything, the one she prayed when she couldn't even want to get better: "God, help me want to want this." We talk about why seeking help from doctors and therapists isn't weak faith. And we talk about the spring several churches canceled her shows — not over her music, but over her appearance — and the pastor's apology that came afterward, the part of the story nobody usually gets to hear.

This is a conversation about belonging, about the people Jesus actually sat with, and about what God does with the wreckage.

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Cliff is a classically trained vocalist, Associate Professor of Voice at Liberty University, and Worship Pastor at Liberty Baptist Church in Appomattox, VA. He's spent decades leading worship in churches from Detroit to Chesapeake to Lynchburg, and now trains the next generation of worship leaders in the theology behind what they do on a Sunday morning.

Apollo and Cliff trace Cliff's winding, faith-led path from adjunct voice teacher to full-time faculty at Liberty — including a year-long job process that ended in a single dinner conversation. Then they dig into the theology of worship itself: what got lost in the "seeker sensitive" era, why some songs belong in private prayer and others belong in the room together, and how a worship leader's own walk with God shapes everything they lead.

Key themes from this conversation:

• Surrender over striving — God doesn't want performance, He wants a surrendered heart.
• Every step of faith has a purpose, even when the "why" doesn't show up for years.
• The words we sing together matter, and so does how we introduce them.

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Lydio and Apollo dig into what they call "default faith" — the danger of mistaking a Christian upbringing for a real relationship with Jesus — and why the gratitude of someone radically saved and someone raised in the church should look exactly the same. It's a conversation about authenticity, calling, and what it actually looks like to give the next generation something real to hold onto.

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In this conversation, Brandon walks Apollo through his whole journey: the youth pastor who gave him the gospel over Taco Bell across from Arrowhead Stadium, the sinner's prayer he said in the driveway of a white Ford F-150, and the season he walked away after a church experience left him confused. He shares how a David Crowder song broke him open in a worship service, how one family's quiet peace through financial hardship showed him what real faith looks like, and how losing his dad to cancer a year and a half ago has tested — and deepened — his belief that God is sovereign and good.

Along the way, Brandon and Apollo dig into the difference between faithfulness you cultivate and faithfulness as a gift of the Spirit, why looking back is the key to trusting God forward, and what it means to shift from a worship leader to a worship pastor who shepherds people, not just sets.

This is Episode 002 — an honest conversation about seeing God in the whole story, not just the highlight reel.

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In this conversation, Anthony shares how he came to faith after a breakup in junior college, how a quiet pull from God led his family to leave everything familiar and move to Texas, and what it actually looks like to do ministry one cubicle at a time.

We talk about his three kids all getting baptized in January — and the moment each one described exactly where they were when they gave their life to Jesus. The bed. The dinner table. The communion room. And Anthony closes with one of the best lines of the episode: "Just share your cape."

This is Episode 001 — the first conversation — and it's everything this show is about.

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Welcome to Jesus Wants The Rose, a long-form, conversational podcast about how the gospel actually lands in real life. Each episode, host Apollo Tull sits down with a different Christian — pastors, artists, everyday believers — for an honest, unpolished conversation about how they first encountered Jesus, how they've come to understand the gospel, and how it keeps reshaping their story.

This isn't a polished sermon or a performance. It's more like pulling up a chair and hitting record while the conversation goes wherever it goes — doubt, church, grace, failure, and the moments faith actually showed up.

Across the episodes ahead, expect real stories of ordinary joy and deep struggle, honest conversations about what it actually looks like to follow Jesus day to day, and a consistent thread of hope — that the good news isn't abstract, it's alive and at work in real lives, including yours.

Episode 001 drops soon. Subscribe now on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen, so you don't miss it.

Jesus Wants The Rose — real conversations, rooted in the gospel.