In this conversation, Jim and Jason open up what friend raising looks like for camps, why a leaky roof or an operating budget rarely inspires anyone, and the simple question that turns a need into an opportunity people want to be part of. They also discuss how a single vision dinner can become the starting point for long-term partnerships, and what camp directors can focus on in the final weeks of the year to strengthen year-end giving.

Mark P. Fisher's Quick Camp Marketing Tip is about leadership: if you want a team that owns growth, give people a goal to own, not just a task to finish.

Keywords

camp fundraising, friend raising, vision dinner, Fundraising Masterminds, Perfect Vision Dinner, camp donor relationships, year-end fundraising, matching gifts, Giving Tuesday, capital campaign, camp leadership, camp growth

Sound Bites

“A transactional relationship is what you have with an ATM.”

“They come into the program thinking, I want a hundred thousand dollars, and they walk away being like, I don't even care about the money. We just got a hundred and fifty new people that love us.”

“As soon as you start thinking development as a ministry and that you're building relationships, then there is no difference between your ministry and fundraising.”

Hosts
Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth
Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow

Guest
Jim Dempsey, Fundraising Masterminds
Jason Galicinski, Fundraising Masterminds

Chapters
00:04 Welcome and Introductions
01:21 Quick Camp Marketing Tip: Give Your Team a Goal to Own
06:23 Meet Jim Dempsey and Jason Galicinski
07:31 Jason's and Jim's Camp Stories
16:52 How Jim and Jason Met
31:05 Friend Raising vs. Fundraising
35:58 Turning Needs into Exciting Opportunities
44:33 What Is an Accelerator?
48:26 Inside the Vision Dinner
52:41 Results: From First Dinner to $1.3 Million
59:49 Year-End Fundraising in the Next 60 Days
1:03:49 Balancing Running Camp and Raising Money
1:06:56 Closing

Resources

Fundraising Masterminds

Year-End Fundraising Training

Fundraising Masterminds Podcast

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Mark and Carl also examine what it takes to turn more inquiries into bookings. From tracking close rates and following up consistently to training salespeople and giving them room to solve customer problems, they share practical ways to strengthen the sales process. You'll learn why a dedicated sales system matters more than commissions alone, how to evaluate whether a sales investment is paying off, and why sustainable camp growth requires both financial discipline and investing in the right people.

Carl's Quick Camp Marketing Tip introduces the 80/20 rule: instead of trying to solve every problem or pursue every opportunity, identify the few priorities that can make the biggest difference. It's a practical approach to setting growth goals, focusing your team's efforts, and making meaningful progress without spreading resources too thin.

Keywords

camp growth, sustainable camp growth, camp marketing, camp revenue, guest group bookings, camp sales, sales follow-up, camp leadership, marketing ROI, Pareto principle, camp capacity, camp growth planning

Sound Bites

“Your problems and opportunities are not equally weighted.”

“Curiosity and humility is what leads to the epic adventures for leaders.”

“Sales is not set it and forget it.”

“The magic is systems.”

Hosts

Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth
Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow

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Those lessons shaped SpringHill’s next chapter. The organization made difficult decisions to refocus its programs and resources, invest in its Michigan property, strengthen pricing and margins, and rethink how it used its 1,600-bed capacity. Eric breaks down how to think differently about unused capacity, when it may be time to let go of a program, and why better margins can create room for better experiences. At SpringHill, that focus also helped substantially grow guest group revenue by putting previously unused capacity to work.

SpringHill also became more intentional about retention, using survey data, personalized texts, direct phone calls, and empowered staff to understand what was keeping families from rebooking. Combined with a continued focus on program quality, retention climbed from 52% to 61%. Camp leaders will come away with practical ideas for improving retention, evaluating growth opportunities, and building systems that support sustainable growth for the long term.

Mark’s Quick Camp Marketing Tip brings that same thinking to capacity: stop telling prospective campers you’re “full.” By capturing demand with a waiting list instead, camps can fill cancellations, redirect families to available weeks, and uncover growth opportunities hiding in the capacity they already have.

Keywords

camp growth, sustainable growth, camp leadership, camp capacity, camper retention, camp marketing, summer camp enrollment, retreat groups, camp pricing, customer engagement, camp revenue, SpringHill Camps

Sound Bites

“Bigger isn’t better.”

“No margin, no mission.”

“Not every bed is created equal.”

“A week up here shapes a lifetime out there.”

Hosts

Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth
Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow

Guest

Eric Bartz, SpringHill Camps

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Rather than trying to solve everything internally, Bongiorno partnered with an outside digital marketing agency to take a fresh look at its growth opportunities. That process helped the team see both the potential ahead and the gaps that needed attention. From marketing and lead generation to inquiry follow-up and internal systems, Bongiorno began building a more intentional approach to growth. The result has been a stronger pipeline, more inquiries and bookings, and greater clarity about where the organization can go next.

Carl also shares the leadership work behind that progress: addressing unhealthy staff culture, inviting trusted leaders into important decisions, empowering team members to own their areas, and knowing when outside expertise can help you see something differently. As new opportunities emerge, Bongiorno is now thinking about the next constraints to growth, including staffing, meeting space, capacity, and long-term facility planning.

Carl Lefever’s Quick Camp Marketing Tip focuses on another important part of sustainable growth: keeping the guest groups you already have through proactive retreat coordination and a consistent rebooking process.

Keywords

camp growth, camp marketing, retreat center marketing, Bongiorno Conference Center, digital marketing, retreat bookings, lead generation, guest group retention, camp leadership, retreat coordination, organizational growth, Christian camping

Sound Bites

“Growth doesn’t simply happen because you want it.”

“You have to communicate, communicate, overcommunicate.”

“I want 100% retainment. I know it’s crazy to think like that, but why not?”

“When God changes a life, it’s forever and it’s eternal.”

Hosts

Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth
Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow

Guest

Carl Redding, Bongiorno Conference Center

Resources

Retreat Coordination Process Article>

Church Event Planning Checklist>

Free Camp Growth Planner App >

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Michael John Stanley (MJ), Alan Brown, and Lindy Pinkerton share how that process began with visits to 10 camps and expanded into conversations with roughly 60 camps, plus real-world beta testing. What emerged was a consistent problem: camps were stitching together registration systems, spreadsheets, calendars, contracts, emails, whiteboards, and staff knowledge just to keep operations moving.

Their response centers on what Lindy calls the Five C’s: contracts, calendars, communications, CRM, and coordinating. The conversation gets practical about guest-group registration, knowing who is actually on property, communicating between departments, coordinating meals and facilities, and giving staff access to the information they need without burying them in another complicated system.

Mark’s quick marketing tip also tackles WIIFM—“What’s In It For Me?”—and why camp marketing should focus less on what your camp has and more on what those features make possible for campers, parents, churches, and retreat groups.

Keywords

camp technology, camp management software, camp operations, camp registration, guest group registration, camp CRM, camp communication, operational efficiency, camp management systems, retreat center software, sustainable camp growth, The One App

Sound Bites

“Camping found me.” — MJ

“You’re basically running a city at a camp.” — Alan Brown

“Everything is fragmented.” — Lindy Pinkerton

“Get staff out from behind the desk and out doing mission.” — Alan Brown

Hosts

Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth
Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow

Guests

Michael John Stanley (MJ), The One App
Alan Brown, The One App
Lindy Pinkerton, The One App

Resources

The One App — Learn more or schedule a demo.

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Mark and Carl challenge one of the biggest barriers to camp growth: treating marketing primarily as a cost to control instead of an investment expected to produce a measurable return. The issue isn’t spending more for the sake of spending. It’s learning to test intelligently, track results, invest more in what works, and stop funding what doesn’t.

Mark recommends thinking about marketing investment in relation to the revenue you want to achieve, using 10–12% of target gross revenue as a starting benchmark. They also unpack why fixed budgets can work against growth, why experienced marketing leadership matters, and why most camps need an “air traffic controller” coordinating specialists rather than expecting one marketing employee to do everything.

Carl’s Quick Camp Marketing Tip makes measurement simple: ask every new inquiry, “How did you hear about us?” Record the answer consistently and use those patterns to make better decisions about where your next marketing dollar should go.

Keywords

camp marketing, camp growth, marketing investment, marketing ROI, camp marketing budget, camp enrollment, retreat bookings, lead tracking, camp capacity, marketing strategy, nonprofit growth, camp leadership

Sound Bites

“Empty beds aren’t free.”

“Good leadership doesn’t just protect resources. It puts them to work.”

“Test. Keep track. See what works. See what doesn’t.”

“What are we afraid of?”

Hosts

Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth
Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow

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Senior SEO Specialist Scott Rehnberg of Improve & Grow explains camp SEO without the technical overload. He breaks down how Google understands your website, why dedicated pages for priority audiences matter, how your Google Business Profile affects visibility, and what camps can do to influence recommendations from ChatGPT and other AI search tools.

Scott also shares what progress can look like over 30 days, 90 days, and six months, and why impressions and clicks only matter if they ultimately lead to inquiries, bookings, and registrations.

Carl’s Quick Camp Marketing Tip: “Google Your Camp Like a Guest Would” gives you an immediate visibility check. Open an incognito browser and search your camp’s name, “summer camps near me,” and “Christian retreat centers near me.” Then try similar searches in ChatGPT. Look at who appears, what information search engines are using, and where your camp’s online presence needs work.

Keywords

camp SEO, summer camp marketing, Google search, search engine optimization, ChatGPT search, AI search, Google Business Profile, organic traffic, retreat center marketing, camp registrations, Google Search Console, camp website

Sound Bites

“It's not a trick.” — Scott Rehnberg (19:45)

“If people can understand it, Google's more likely to understand it.” — Scott Rehnberg (20:26)

“Sometimes the off-site things you do can give a lot of credibility to your website.” — Scott Rehnberg (27:22)

“Your SEO is the work you're putting into your house to make it more valuable.” — Scott Rehnberg (46:59)

Hosts

Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth
Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow

Guest

Scott Rehnberg, Improve & Grow

Chapters

00:00 Why SEO Matters for Camps
02:09 Quick Camp Marketing Tip: Google Your Camp Like a Guest Would
15:51 Scott’s Camp Story
19:07 SEO, Explained Simply
24:28 Getting Your Camp Recommended by ChatGPT and AI
30:29 Why Camps Don’t Show Up in Search
35:33 Common SEO Problems for Camp and Retreat Websites
40:19 What Actually Moves the Needle With SEO
46:00 How Long Does SEO Take?
50:10 Measuring Impressions, Clicks, and Conversions
55:32 Three SEO Actions Camps Can Take This Week
57:38 Closing: Building Your Camp’s Growth Plan

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Oscar Quesada, CEO of Lifedge Marketing, explains why focused landing pages consistently outperform general website pages for camp registrations, retreat bookings, and facility rentals. He shares the framework his team uses to build pages that remove confusion, build trust, and improve conversions.

You'll learn what separates a landing page from a standard website page, the biggest mistakes camps make, and the key elements every high-converting page should include, including clear messaging, testimonials, FAQs, pricing, compelling calls to action, and social proof. Oscar also shares a real-world example where a targeted landing page and modest Google Ads campaign generated more than $100,000 in retreat bookings.

Along with the incredible insights from Oscar, Mark encourages camp leaders to price confidently as costs increase while rewarding loyal families with meaningful early-bird incentives. Registering campers before they leave camp, or shortly afterward, can improve retention, strengthen cash flow, and help families commit before they begin comparing other camps. As Mark reminds listeners, "The best time to sell next summer is this summer."

Keywords

landing pages, camp websites, camp marketing, retreat center marketing, website conversions, Google Ads, Christian camps, camp registration, facility rentals, SEO, website optimization, Lifedge Marketing

Sound Bites

"The best time to sell next summer is this summer."

"The right message, to the right audience, at the right time."

"People need to understand what you do in the first 10 seconds."

"Marketing is a bunch of experiments."

Hosts

Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth

Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow

Guest

Oscar Quesada, Lifedge Marketing

Resources

• Lifedge Marketing Website >
• Landing Page Best Practices Guide >

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Carl opens the episode with a practical marketing tip reminding camp leaders that every inquiry has an expiration date. He explains why responding within one business day, following up consistently, scheduling clear next steps, and tracking every opportunity in a CRM dramatically increases the likelihood of turning inquiries into bookings. As Carl says, marketing creates opportunities, but sales turns those opportunities into ministry and revenue.

Mark is joined by Lindy Pinkerton and Heather Trail from Inspiring Growth to discuss how virtual sales support is helping camps strengthen their guest group sales process without adding the cost and complexity of expanding their internal staff. They share practical insights on qualifying leads, building stronger relationships with prospective groups, simplifying contracts, improving communication, and creating systems that ensure every inquiry receives the attention it deserves. Throughout the conversation, they explain how becoming an extension of a camp's team—not simply an outside vendor—helps camps increase bookings, improve rebooking rates, and build sustainable long-term growth through better sales systems.

Keywords

virtual sales, guest group sales, camp CRM, camp marketing, Christian camps, retreat center marketing, follow-up systems, lead conversion, guest group bookings, sales process, HubSpot CRM, camp growth

Sound Bites

"The fortune is in the follow-up." 

"We don't use 'they.' We say 'we.' We are your people." 

“If you follow up more than the other person and better than the other person you can often win them.”

"Marketing creates opportunities. Sales turns those opportunities into ministry and revenue."

“What camp can do in the life of a child and adult can change a family, can change a generation.”

Hosts

Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth

Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow

Guests

Lindy Pinkerton, Virtual Sales at Inspiring Growth
Heather Trail, Virtual Sales at Inspiring Growth

Resources

Talk with Inspiring Growth About Virtual Sales

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Before diving into the main conversation, Mark shares a practical camp marketing tip: share benefits, not just features. Instead of simply promoting climbing walls, zip lines, or beautiful facilities, camps should tell stories that demonstrate real transformation. Parents and retreat planners don't just want information, they want evidence that camp changes lives. By documenting one authentic story each week, camps can create more compelling marketing that connects emotionally with future guests.

The main conversation introduces Capacity Yield Management, a practical approach to helping camps generate more revenue, serve more guests, and strengthen long-term sustainability by making better use of the facilities they already have. Through real-world examples, Mark and Carl explain why "full" often isn't actually full, how outdated booking practices quietly cost camps thousands of dollars, and why better stewardship of existing resources can unlock significant growth.

You'll learn how to evaluate true capacity, manage reservation holds, determine when exclusive use makes financial sense, balance multiple guest groups, identify hidden facility constraints, and build the operational systems that maximize both ministry impact and financial health.

Keywords

capacity yield management, camp occupancy, camp revenue, retreat center management, Christian camps, camp marketing, storytelling marketing, guest group bookings, exclusive use, camp operations, camp leadership, camp stewardship

Sound Bites

“I've seen camps over and over increase monthly income by 30 % just by maximizing their occupancy.”

“Combine, cancel, create, and cram. The four C's of yield management.”

“Sometimes you have to cancel or prune, in order to have more growth.”

“Maybe curiosity is one of the fastest paths back to joy.”

“People don't just want more information. They want evidence. Evidence through story that your camp is changing lives.”

Hosts

Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth

Carl Lefever, Improve &Grow

Guest

Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth

Resources

The Spike of Success, by Mark P. Fisher

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Mark opens the episode with a practical marketing tip on selling the problem before the program, explaining why camps should lead with the challenges their guests already feel, not simply the name or date of an event. When people recognize a problem they're trying to solve, they're far more likely to engage with your camp's solution.

Dave Crouse, Executive Director of Angeles Crest Christian Camp, shares the remarkable story of taking over a camp that couldn't pay its electric bill and transforming it into a thriving ministry serving nearly 7,000 guests each year. Dave discusses the leadership decisions that changed the trajectory of the camp, including clarifying the camp's brand, improving its digital presence, embracing data-driven decision making, and investing consistently in both facilities and people. He also explains how sustained growth strengthened donor confidence, funded major capital improvements, and positioned the camp to pursue even bigger ministry opportunities, including a bold vision to serve 10,000 guests annually.

Throughout the conversation, Dave reminds camp leaders that growth begins by honestly identifying the one or two obstacles preventing your camp from moving forward and intentionally building systems to overcome them.

Keywords

camp leadership, camp marketing, Christian camps, retreat center marketing, nonprofit marketing, camp growth, branding, digital marketing, donor development, guest group marketing, executive director, stewardship

Sound Bites

"My first day on the job, I was told that we were financially in the hole and that we didn't have enough money to pay the electric bill”

"Sell the problem before the program"

"I had to come to that realization what I had in the past was not gonna happen and and lead to growth now."

"When you start to get that consistent growth, a lot of other things come with it."

Hosts

Mark P. Fisher
https://go.inspiringgrowth.biz/

Carl Lefever
https://improveandgrow.com/industries/camp-marketing/

Guest

Dave Crouse
Executive Director, Angeles Crest Christian Camp

Resources

Angeles Crest Christian Camp
https://angelescrest.com

The Paine Protocol by Mark P. Fisher

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Peter Elbaum, owner of Camp Tree and Operations Director at Greystone Camp, shares how camps can turn referrals into a repeatable growth system. Drawing from both his camp leadership experience and software engineering background, Peter explains why great systems free camp staff to focus on relationships instead of repetitive administrative work.

Mark and Carl also discuss why referrals consistently outperform many other marketing channels, how camps can reward families and staff without creating unnecessary complexity, and why measuring referral performance is essential for long-term growth. Peter shares practical examples from more than 100 camps using Camp Tree, including how one camp achieved a 15x return on investment by replacing guesswork with measurable referral tracking.

Keywords

camp referrals, referral marketing, Camp Tree, camper enrollment, staff recruitment, camp growth, word of mouth marketing, CampMinder integration, ambassador programs, camp operations, camp software, summer camp marketing

Sound Bites

"Camp needs to be referable."

“Often at camp, it seems like the default is to work harder and not necessarily smarter."

"You can't manage what you don't measure."

Hosts

Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth

Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow

Guest

Peter Elbaum, Camp Tree

Chapters

00:03 Introduction and Setting the Scene
00:30 The Power of Camp Ministry
01:00 Building Relationships Through Camp Experiences
02:09 Marketing Insights: The Importance of Retargeting
05:43 Introducing Peter Elbaum and Camp Tree
07:49 Peter's Journey: From Camp to Tech
10:33 The Impact of Software Engineering on Camp Operations
12:15 Identifying Challenges in Camp Management
15:59 Acquiring Camp Tree: A New Chapter
18:16 The Value of Camp Tree for Camps
20:46 Referral Programs: What Works?
24:24 Success Stories: Measuring ROI with Camp Tree
26:51 Special Offer and Closing Thoughts

Resources

• Camp Tree — https://camptree.org
• Promo Code: GYC26 for $150 off your first year of Camp Tree
• Camp Operations Newsletter — https://campoperations.com

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Mark opens the episode with a practical camp marketing tip on following up with retreat inquiries that have gone silent, sharing a simple email subject line that can restart conversations and recover lost bookings. Then Carl shares how an unexpected project at Refreshing Mountain Camp introduced him to Google Ads and ultimately launched a career helping camps grow through digital marketing.

The conversation then turns to one of the biggest opportunities available to nonprofit camps: the Google Ad Grant. Carl explains how eligible 501(c)(3) organizations can receive up to $10,000 per month in free Google advertising, walks through the application process, campaign setup, keyword strategy, and the common mistakes that prevent camps from seeing results. He also shares real examples of camps using the grant to generate more registrations, retreat inquiries, and community engagement, along with his perspective on how AI is changing search and what camp leaders should be doing to stay visible online.

Keywords

Google Ads Grant, nonprofit marketing, camp marketing, retreat center marketing, Google advertising, camp enrollment, nonprofit advertising, digital marketing, summer camps, retreat bookings

Sound Bites

"About fifty percent of the camps I talk to have no idea the grant program exists."

"One of the biggest mistakes camps make is they apply for the grant and then they never do anything else with it."

"The reality is organic listings just continue to get pushed further and further down."

"You could start showing up at the top of Google and not have to pay for the ads."

Hosts

Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth

Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow

Resources

How to Apply for a Google Ads Grant
https://growyourcamppodcast.com/blog/how-to-apply-for-google-ad-grant/

Google for Nonprofits Program Website
https://www.google.com/nonprofits/

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Mark Fisher shares the personal story that reshaped his career, including the health crisis and board decision that led him from camp leadership into consulting. That journey sets the stage for a practical conversation about one of the most misunderstood topics in camping: pricing.

Mark and Carl discuss why many camps underprice their highest-demand dates, how waitlists reveal hidden opportunities, and why demand-based pricing is about stewardship—not simply charging more. They break down practical ways to get started, including seasonal pricing, using waitlists as a decision-making tool, giving booking teams flexibility to solve problems, and creating pricing options that help both camps and guests succeed.

The episode also opens with a practical marketing tip on expanding your camp's online visibility through free directory listings, including Google Maps, Apple Maps, Yelp, tourism websites, and camp-specific directories.

Keywords

demand-based pricing, camp pricing strategy, camp revenue growth, camp sustainability, seasonal pricing, camp waitlists, retreat center pricing, camp stewardship, camp capacity management

Sound Bites

"Our fifth son is being raised by a different father."

"That day, that generosity unlocked the future for me."

"The F word. It's four letters and it's full."

"We're full, we're full. And I'll say, that's a cuss word we don't use. We say, we have a wait list."

"Waitlisting is really the indicator on a leader's dashboard."

Hosts

Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth

Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow

Chapters

00:00 Episode Soundbites

00:13 Introduction

01:17 Quick Camp Marketing Tip

06:55 Mark's Story

18:10 Camp Pricing

22:15 The Waitlist: Your Demand Signal

34:15 Putting Demand-Based Pricing to Work

42:20 Communicating Price Changes

47:32 Real Results & Camp Stories

52:08 Baby Steps to Get Started

Resources

Camp Directory Listings Guide

Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss

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Mark opens with a personal dedication to his mother’s 85th birthday and reflects on the people and experiences that shape camp leaders over time.

Carl’s quick marketing tip explains why camps should stop sending every audience to the same homepage and how dedicated landing pages can improve conversions and lead generation.

Justin then shares his personal camp story and how a formative camp experience shaped both his faith and belief in the long-term power of camp ministry.

The conversation explores the two “Christian marketing principles” guiding Refreshing Mountain’s growth strategy. “Relationships Trump Everything” focuses on intentional guest care and personalized communication. “Return Business Is Worth Investing In” covers stewardship, rebooking strategy, guest retention, and why long-term relationships drive sustainable growth.

Justin also shares lessons around guest feedback, occupancy planning, and how adding meeting room capacity became a major growth driver for year-round bookings.

Keywords

camp marketing, camp retention, rebooking strategy, retreat center growth, guest experience, Christian camp leadership, landing pages for camps

Sound Bites

• “Relationships trump everything.”
• “Return business is a metric of integrity.”
• “The camps growing fastest online make visitors instantly feel: ‘This is exactly for me.’”
• “Happy returning guests are your best marketing.”

Hosts

Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth
Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow

Guest

Justin Harnish, Refreshing Mountain

Chapters

00:05 Welcome & Episode Dedication
02:38 Quick Camp Marketing Tip
08:40 Justin's Camp Story
09:29 The Power of Camp Experiences
11:57 Refreshing Mountain Background
14:51 Balancing Business and Ministry
15:57 Org Challenges During Season of Growth
22:52 Principles of Relationship-Driven Service
24:53 Understanding Rebooking and Customer Feedback
26:42 Enhancing Customer Experience Through Personalization
30:09 The Importance of Rebooking and Customer Relationships
37:13 Investing in Return Business
45:20 The Impact of Meeting Room Capacity on Revenue
45:57 Growth Partnership with Improve & Grow
48:22 Making Way for Innovation at Camp
53:22 Episode Debrief with Mark & Carl
59:42 Closing Message & New Website Features

Resources

Refreshing Mountain Christian Marketing Principles

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Before the interview, Mark shares a marketing tip about “riding the wave” instead of trying to create one. He explains how listening to church leaders led Hume New England to shorten camp sessions, lower pricing, and redesign programs around what churches and families actually needed—changes that ultimately helped fill more beds and increase ministry impact.

Brian Mount then shares what it was like stepping into Hume New England as COO during COVID and leading a turnaround effort that required operational changes, measurable marketing systems, and a willingness to challenge long-standing assumptions. The conversation explores adapting camp structures for smaller churches, embracing guest groups, improving follow-up and marketing accountability, and overcoming internal resistance to change.

The results were significant:

• Summer campers grew from roughly 620 to nearly 1,200
• Guest group revenue increased from about $500,000 to $1.4 million
• Camp seasons moved from empty beds to waitlists
• Staff morale and ministry momentum dramatically improved

Brian also shares encouragement for camp leaders navigating difficult seasons and explains why understanding your market may require rethinking long-held traditions without compromising mission.

Keywords

camp growth, Christian camp leadership, camp marketing, guest group strategy, summer camp enrollment, camp profitability, church partnerships, Hume New England, ministry growth, leadership development

Sound Bites

“Tradition is a tool. It’s not a trophy.”

“We were doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results.”

“Every empty bed is a potential missed opportunity for someone to hear the gospel.”

“Start small and don’t be afraid to fail.”

Hosts

Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth
Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow

Guest

Brian Mount, LifeShape International

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Background
00:56 Quick Camp Marketing Tip
04:19 Brian Mount Introduction & Camp Story
07:38 Leadership and Transformation at Hume
09:13 Early Days at Hume
15:51 Lessons Learned from Early Struggles
17:39 Personal Journey and Influences
19:09 The Decision to Partner for Growth
23:51 Strategic Changes and Marketing Innovations
29:36 Indicators of Positive Change
34:00 Achieving Profitability and Impact
40:06 Encouragement for Struggling Camp Leaders

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Carl’s quick camp marketing tip focuses on why your Google Business Profile may be quietly costing you bookings. He explains how local search results work, why reviews and categories matter, and how small profile updates can improve visibility for camps and retreat centers.

The featured conversation is with Casey Fuerst, owner of Tic Tac Toe Marketing, who spent 18 years serving at a Lutheran camp in Nebraska before launching an agency focused on camps and nonprofits. Casey shares how camp shaped her personally and why she now helps camps communicate more clearly.

The conversation explores one of the biggest problems Casey sees on camp websites: cluttered messaging. Using her “hall closet” analogy, she explains why trying to communicate everything at once confuses parents and retreat guests instead of helping them take action. The episode also covers Donald Miller’s StoryBrand framework and practical ways camps can simplify messaging, strengthen positioning, and improve marketing clarity.

Keywords

camp marketing, camp website design, StoryBrand for camps, camp messaging, Christian camp marketing

Sound Bites

• “If everybody thinks their stuff belongs on the front page of the website, it becomes the junk drawer.”
• “Clear is kind. Clever is not.”
• “Most organizations are communicating at an eight when customers only need a two.”

Hosts

Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth
Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow

Guest

Casey Fuerst, Tic Tac Toe Marketing

Chapters

00:05 Introduction
02:11 Today's Topic: Messaging & Clarity
02:45 Quick Tip: Your Google Business Profile
10:19 Messaging and Brand Positioning
10:51 Meet Casey Fuerst
12:31 Casey's Camp Story
12:34 Personal Camp Stories and Experiences
13:37 The Impact of Camp Experiences on Young Adults
16:11 Marketing Insights for Camps
16:20 The Hall Closet Problem
19:28 The Importance of Clear Messaging
22:01 The StoryBrand Framework
22:11 The StoryBrand Framework in Action
25:14 Real-World Examples of Messaging Success
25:43 Finding Your One Message
28:14 Navigating New Audiences and Digital Marketing
28:56 Messaging Wins: Real Stories
31:14 Celebrating Podcast Milestones and Future Directions
38:56 Where Messaging Works Best
42:45 Reaching New Audiences
46:14 Wrap-Up & Celebrating Episode 10

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Carl then interviews Kathi and Bob Terrell, who share how Emanuel Pines Camp grew from roughly $900,000 to over $2 million in a few years. Their story begins with a plateau—limited growth, aging facilities, and reactive leadership—until they chose to pursue growth intentionally and bring in outside perspective.

The biggest changes weren’t just marketing. They clarified positioning, improved first impressions, and focused on attracting the right audience. At the same time, they invested in their team with systems like the “I See You” recognition program and mission-driven onboarding to reinforce culture daily.

They also introduced tools like the “Peace Card” to train staff in customer service and ensure every guest interaction reflects their mission. Along with ongoing facility improvements and a focus on removing distractions, these changes strengthened experience and loyalty.

As demand increased, they adapted by adding staff, clarifying roles, and implementing virtual sales to improve responsiveness and conversion. The result was not just revenue growth, but stronger rebooking, healthier culture, and a more sustainable operation.

Keywords
camp marketing strategy, rebooking systems, guest experience, team culture, retreat center growth, virtual sales, camp leadership, first impressions, staff development

Sound Bites

• “If you’re below 50% rebooking, something is broken.”
• “We started looking at camp through someone else’s eyes.”
• “We just became more intentional about everything.”
• “Nothing is more important than attending to guest needs.”

Hosts

Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth
Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow

Guests

Kathi Terrell & Bob Terrell, Emmanuel Pines Camp

Chapters
00:00 Episode Welcome
00:45 Quick Camp Marketing Tip: Rebooking
07:36 Bob and Kathy's Camp Journey
13:15 Understanding Emanuel Pines Camp
15:42 Challenges and Growth at Emanuel Pines
23:26 Key Changes Leading to Growth
23:56 Understanding Purposeful Growth Strategies
25:45 Cultivating Team Relationships and Culture
28:00 Mission-Driven Orientation and Guest Experience
30:20 The Peace Card: Enhancing Customer Service
35:24 Navigating Marriage and Leadership
40:20 Virtual Sales: A New Approach to Growth
46:30 Sustaining Marriage and Leadership in Camp Management
51:41 Podcast Intro Animation 16x9.mp4

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Then Mark interviews Bob Briscoe, Executive Director of Williamsburg Christian Retreat Center, brings a long-term perspective shaped by decades in camping—from his early experiences as a camper and trail guide to leading the organization through seasons of change. That background informs how he approaches leadership, balancing mission, relationships, and financial sustainability.

The conversation walks through how the camp moved from inconsistent, “spiky” bookings to steady growth. Faced with unpredictable revenue and underperforming programs, Bob and his team made key decisions to simplify their offerings, focus on profitable guest groups, and invest in improving their marketing visibility. The result was fewer gaps, stronger midweek bookings, and significant growth in room nights—including doubling occupancy in one of their primary lodging facilities.

This episode highlights what actually drives sustainable growth: clear decisions about what to stop doing, systems that support consistent marketing, and the willingness to seek outside help when internal capacity runs thin.

Keywords
camp growth, retreat center marketing, camp occupancy, guest group strategy, camp revenue growth, digital marketing for camps, camp leadership, camp operations, retreat booking consistency

Sound Bites

• “Our bookings were spiky… full weekends and then crickets.”
• “The big change was answering the phone because it was ringing.”
• “You can’t afford the person you need—so get the right help another way.”
• “Be open to asking for help and being teachable.”

Hosts

Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth
Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow

Guest

Bob Briscoe, Williamsburg Christian Retreat Center

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Podcast Format
00:05 Marketing Strategies for Camps
03:00 Bob Briscoe's Journey in Camp Leadership
06:05 Understanding Williamsburg Christian Retreat Center
09:12 Challenges and Changes in Camp Operations
12:14 Navigating Program Adjustments and Guest Groups
16:51 Innovative Retreat Solutions
17:58 Recognizing the Need for External Help
19:23 Evaluating Marketing Partnerships
22:15 Navigating Budget Approvals
24:20 Implementing Changes Post-COVID
26:37 Tracking Revenue Growth
28:24 Creative Strategies During Challenges
29:24 Future Growth Focus
31:07 Encouragement for Stuck Camp Directors
35:33 Personal Insights on Marriage Growth

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Then Carl and Mark sit down with Dusty Ledbetter, Digital Outreach Manager at Camp Cho-Yeh, to unpack a different approach to summer camp marketing—one focused less on driving traffic and more on converting interest into action.

Dusty explains how his team built a system to capture leads, follow up quickly, and guide families through the decision process. Instead of relying on parents to register on their own, Camp Cho-Yeh uses targeted offers, structured landing pages, and a trained sales team to turn inquiries into conversations—and conversations into registrations.

The result: 300+ new camper registrations from paid campaigns, with significantly higher conversion rates than traditional camp marketing funnels.

This episode breaks down the full system—from Meta ads and messaging strategy to sales calls, follow-up processes, and lifetime value math. If your camp is generating interest but struggling to convert it into registrations, this provides a practical model to close that gap.

Keywords

camp marketing, summer camp registration, lead generation, camp growth, Meta ads, Facebook ads, sales systems, conversion strategy, camp revenue, digital marketing for camps

Sound Bites

• “The ad’s job isn’t to sell—it’s to stop the scroll and get the click.”
• “70% of the conversion happens after the click.”
• “About 88% of our qualified leads now turn into registrations.”

Hosts

Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth
Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow

Guest

Dusty Ledbetter, Camp Cho-Yeh

Chapters

00:00 Introduction
02:00 Camp Marketing Tip: Virtual Tours That Close Deals
05:30 Dusty’s Camp Story and Background
10:00 The Problem with Traditional Camp Marketing Funnels
14:30 Why Traffic Alone Doesn’t Drive Registrations
18:00 Building a Lead Capture System for Summer Camp
22:00 The Role of Sales Calls in Camp Enrollment
27:00 Landing Page Strategy and Lead Offers
33:00 Meta Ads: Messaging, Creative, and Targeting
40:00 Lead Follow-Up Systems That Convert
44:00 Understanding Customer Acquisition Cost (CAC)
48:00 Lifetime Value (LTV) and Smarter Budgeting
52:00 Scaling Growth Through Testing and Iteration

Resources

Camp Cho-Yeh >

Summer Camp Landing Page >

Facebook Ad Library >

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John shares the real story behind that growth—from cold calling hundreds of churches with limited results to implementing a system that now generates consistent inbound leads and an 88% close rate. They walk through the practical changes that made the difference, including website improvements, digital marketing strategy, and the leadership shift required to stop doing everything alone.

You’ll hear what actually worked, what didn’t, and how to think about growth as both an operational and strategic challenge. If you’re trying to fill more beds, increase bookings, or move your camp out of survival mode, this episode gives you a clear, real-world example of what that path can look like.

Keywords

camp growth, retreat bookings, camp marketing, lead generation, website optimization, digital marketing, camp leadership, nonprofit growth, camp revenue, guest groups

Key Topics

• Why most camp websites fail to convert inquiries
• The shift from cold outreach to inbound lead generation
• Website structure and FAQ strategy for better conversions
• Using Google Ads and SEO to drive qualified leads
• Improving close rates with better lead quality
• The operational challenges that come with growth
• Leadership mindset: when and how to ask for help
• Measuring ROI on marketing investments

Hosts

Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth
Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow

Guest

John Schwieterman, Executive Director
Cross Oaks Camp and Retreat Center

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Episode Overview
02:00 Camp Marketing Tip: Answering Unasked Questions
05:08 John’s Camp Story and Background
08:48 Challenges Facing Camp Growth
12:45 Early Growth Efforts and Cold Calling Strategy
18:48 Realizing the Need for Help
21:16 Investing in Marketing and Systems
23:24 Website and Lead Generation Transformation
27:46 Results: Higher Close Rates and Revenue Growth
30:29 The Operational Reality of Growth
31:54 Leadership Lessons and Asking for Help
33:08 Advice for Executive Directors
35:03 Understanding Marketing ROI
39:26 Time Management and Scaling Leadership

Resources

Cross Oaks Camp and Retreat Center >
Google for Nonprofits >
Grow Your Camp Podcast >

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Keywords

camp website, guest groups, retreat bookings, marketing strategy, camp marketing, website optimization, inquiry funnel, camp revenue, digital marketing, camp leadership

Key Topics

Website structure for guest groups

Messaging and positioning for retreats

Inquiry and lead capture strategies

Case studies of successful camp websites

Special offer: Growth Action Plan

Hosts

Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth

Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Camp Growth Strategies

00:37 The Importance of Customer Reviews

05:13 Challenges in Camp Marketing

06:41 Personal Journey into Camp Ministry

10:09 Website Strategies for Guest Groups

12:09 Revenue Insights and Capacity Management

12:46 Maximizing Revenue Through Guest Group Rentals

13:32 The Disconnect in Camp Leadership Perspectives

15:09 Understanding Guest Group Needs

17:44 Creating an Effective Retreat Section on Websites

20:53 Essential Content for Retreat Websites

23:15 Key Questions for Potential Guests

25:53 The Importance of Inquiry Forms

28:13 The Pricing Debate: To Show or Not to Show?

37:51 Implementing Effective Website Changes for Growth

40:45 Growth Action Plan for Camps

Resources:

Improve and Grow Website Services - https://improveandgrow.com/

Cross Oak Camp - https://crossoakamp.com/

They Ask You Answer by Marcus Sheridan

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Keywords:

camp growth, strategic planning, camp leadership, camp marketing, Kaleidoscope, camp development, non-profit, camp strategy, camp sustainability, growth tips

Key Topics

The role of clarity and courage in camp growth

How strategic planning drives camp success

The importance of outcomes over features

Using data and assessment for growth

Stories of camp impact and transformation

Hosts

Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth

Guest

Ryan Moore, Kaleidoscope, Inc

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Technical Setup

00:05 Welcome to the Grow Your Camp Podcast

01:25 Marketing Tip: Google Ads Grant for Nonprofits

04:51 Ryan Moore's Camp Connection and Story

08:07 Overview of Kaleidoscope's Services

12:18 Challenges Facing Camps: Clarity and Courage

17:25 Case Study: Strategic Planning Success

20:49 Conclusion and Call to Action

Resources

• Learn more about Kaleidoscope Consulting at https://kaleidoscopeinc.com/
• Register for the Google for Nonprofits program to access the Google Ads Grant at https://www.google.com/nonprofits/
• Submit a Topic to the Grow Your Camp Podcast via our website at https://growyourcamppodcast.com
• Talk to Carl at Improve & Grow about getting help setting up your Google Ad Grant at https://improveandgrow.com/

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Keywords

Camp growth, camp sales strategy, camp registration software, summer camp payment plans, camp management, camp marketing, camp registration automation, camp software, camp registration tips, camp industry

Key Topics

Kill What You Eat: Benefits of Dedicated Sales Reps

RegPacks's innovative registration platform

Impact of camp stories on growth

Flexible installment payment systems

Reducing account receivables from 25% to 3-5%

Integrating marketing tools for measurable ROI

Hosts

Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth

Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow

Guest

Asaf Darash, Founder and CEO at RegPack

Chapters

00:00 Introduction

00:39 Quick Camp Marketing Tip: Eat What You Kill

04:51 Introduction to RegPack and Its Unique Approach

14:44 The Power of Conditional Logic in Registration

24:46 Pricing Models and Support

28:20 Case Study: Transforming Camp Operations

32:04 Conclusion: Be Less Busy

Resources

RegPAC Official Website - https://regpacks.com

Inspiring Growth Virtual Sales - https://go.inspiringgrowth.biz/

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The episode opens with a simple but often overlooked growth lever: your photos. Camps that replace empty facility shots with real, people-filled images can increase inquiries by reducing uncertainty and helping families picture themselves at camp.

From there, Molly explains how the Family Forest Carbon Program works and how camps can participate. With as little as 30 acres of eligible forest, camps can enroll and receive payments over time while maintaining their land for recreation and conservation. While the per-acre revenue is modest, it creates a steady income stream that can help offset rising costs and protect land from development.

Molly also shares how her own camp experiences shaped her passion for forestry and conservation, reinforcing the long-term impact camps have on how people value the outdoors.

The conversation walks through the enrollment process, what makes land eligible, and what camps can expect—including a customized forest management plan that supports long-term land health and stewardship. The result is a practical way to align mission, sustainability, and financial stability without changing how camps use their property.

Keywords
camp land management, forest conservation, carbon credits, camp revenue streams, Family Forest Carbon Program, American Forest Foundation, land stewardship, retreat center operations, property management for camps, conservation funding

Sound Bites

• “It’s not just revenue—it’s about conservation and stewardship.”
• “Most camps already have the acreage—they just haven’t leveraged it.”
• “This is another way to keep that land in your camp’s name.”

Hosts

Mark P. Fisher, Inspiring Growth
Carl Lefever, Improve & Grow

Guest

Molly Hooks, American Forest Foundation

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to the Podcast and Guests
00:05 Understanding the Family Forest Carbon Program
05:47 Molly's Camp Experience and Its Impact
11:45 Enrollment Process and Eligibility for Camps
16:36 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Resources:

Family Forest Carbon Program - https://familyforestcarbon.org

American Forest Foundation - https://www.forestfoundation.org

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Key Takeaways

• Speed is a crucial advantage in securing group bookings.
• Camps should focus on group rentals to ensure financial stability.
• Defining what 'full' means can unlock additional capacity.
• Utilizing SEO can significantly improve visibility for camps.
• Google Grants can provide substantial advertising support for nonprofits.
• Group dynamics and meeting room management are key to accommodating multiple groups.
• Word of mouth is unreliable; proactive marketing is essential.
• Camps should aim for year-round bookings to maintain financial health.
• Understanding guest group needs can enhance service offerings.
• A well-structured website is vital for attracting new leads.

Sound bites

"The fortune is in the follow-up."

"Don't use the word full."

Chapters

00:00 The Fastest Way to Fill Your Camp

00:06 The Fortune is in the Follow Up

01:23 Episode Introduction

02:15 Maximizing Group Rentals for Camp Success

06:00 Understanding Camp Capacity and Utilization

09:03 Strategies for Attracting New Groups

14:39 Building a Lead-Ready Website

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