In this last episode of the initial series, I share where we might go next in future episodes, exploring the product journey on the Scaling w/ Agility podcast.

If you have any questions, ideas, or would like to come on the podcast to share your product transformation journey, let me know!

Subscribe to the free audio mini course here: https://yuvalyeret.com/from-buzzwords-to-clarity-product-operating-model-audio-mini-course/

I’d love to get your feedback and help you navigate this landscape - https://yuvalyeret.com/work-with-me/figure-out-your-product-operating-model-strategy/

Interested in more of my insights on the Product world? https://yuvalyeret.com/category/blog/product/

The reality is that in a multi-product organization, it’s almost impossible to manage ALL the work in these teams. Some work will still require collaboration across product groups as well as strategic consideration by product and even business leadership. You might be calling it your product portfolio.

In this episode, we explore how to apply product thinking to this cross-product / organizational level work:

* Managing work that spans multiple product groups or the entire organization

* Applying product thinking to strategic initiatives

* Examples of strategic bets

* Balancing work across empowered teams, product groups, and organization-wide initiatives

About the Navigating the Product Operating Model Landscape Audio Series

What You’ll Learn:

* Why Agile Feature Factories Fail—and What to Do About It

* Assessing Your Current Operating Model—Are You Stuck in Projects?

* Principles of Effective Product Operating Models

* When does a Product Operating Model make sense?

* Making It Real: Mapping Your Trail Toward Transformation

Subscribe to the free audio mini course here: https://yuvalyeret.com/from-buzzwords-to-clarity-product-operating-model-audio-mini-course/

This is for you if you’re:

* A Head of Product, Technology, Engineering, or Product Ops, trying to apply or scale product-led practices

* Tired of theory or comprehensive perspective frameworks and hungry for real-world strategies that work

* Too busy to sit down for training or even watch a video “masterclass” (Webinar in disguise…) and prefer to consume audio podcasts.

* Not a fan of 6-figure, inspiring slide decks left behind by expensive consulting firms and product experts.

Need help navigating the product transformation landscape? https://yuvalyeret.com/work-with-me/figure-out-your-product-operating-model-strategy/

Interested in more of my insights on the Product world? https://yuvalyeret.com/category/blog/product/

* What does a truly empowered product team look like?

* Contrast between ideal product professionals and reality in feature factories

* Challenges faced by product people in feature factory environments

* The struggle to build effective product capabilities in technology organizations

* Misalignment between strategic product roles and tactical team needs

About the Navigating the Product Operating Model Landscape Audio Series

What You’ll Learn:

* Why Agile Feature Factories Fail—and What to Do About It

* Assessing Your Current Operating Model—Are You Stuck in Projects?

* Principles of Effective Product Operating Models

* When does a Product Operating Model make sense?

* Making It Real: Mapping Your Trail Toward Transformation

Subscribe to the free audio mini course here: https://yuvalyeret.com/from-buzzwords-to-clarity-product-operating-model-audio-mini-course/

This is for you if you’re:

* A Head of Product, Technology, Engineering, or Product Ops, trying to apply or scale product-led practices

* Tired of theory or comprehensive perspective frameworks and hungry for real-world strategies that work

* Too busy to sit down for training or even watch a video “masterclass” (Webinar in disguise…) and prefer to consume audio podcasts.

* Not a fan of 6-figure, inspiring slide decks left behind by expensive consulting firms and product experts.

Need help navigating the product transformation landscape? https://yuvalyeret.com/work-with-me/figure-out-your-product-operating-model-strategy/

Interested in more of my insights on the Product world? https://yuvalyeret.com/category/blog/product/

In this episode, I explore one of the main villains in the product and agile landscape - the theater:

* Introduction to the concept of “Agile Theater” or “Product Theater”

* Exploration of how organizations adopt agile terminology without true transformation

* Challenges in transitioning from traditional roles to agile roles

* The disconnect between adopting agile concepts and truly empowering teams

* How Agile Theater contributes to maintaining a feature factory mentality

​Check out the Product Organization Scorecard, which can help you assess where you stand on the path from Theater to Factory to Product Lab.​

About the Navigating the Product Operating Model Landscape Audio Series

What You’ll Learn:

* Why Agile Feature Factories Fail—and What to Do About It

* Assessing Your Current Operating Model—Are You Stuck in Projects?

* Principles of Effective Product Operating Models

* When does a Product Operating Model make sense?

* Making It Real: Mapping Your Trail Toward Transformation

Subscribe to the free audio mini course here: https://yuvalyeret.com/from-buzzwords-to-clarity-product-operating-model-audio-mini-course/

This is for you if you’re:

* A Head of Product, Technology, Engineering, or Product Ops, trying to apply or scale product-led practices

* Tired of theory or comprehensive perspective frameworks and hungry for real-world strategies that work

* Too busy to sit down for training or even watch a video “masterclass” (Webinar in disguise…) and prefer to consume audio podcasts.

* Not a fan of 6-figure, inspiring slide decks left behind by expensive consulting firms and product experts.

Need help navigating the product transformation landscape? https://yuvalyeret.com/work-with-me/figure-out-your-product-operating-model-strategy/

Interested in more of my insights on the Product world? https://yuvalyeret.com/category/blog/product/

In this special crossover episode of Mastering Agility and Scaling w/ Agility, Yuval Yeret joins Jim Sammons and Rick Visotcky to confront the uncomfortable truths about the agile industry. Together, they explore why so much agile work has drifted into activity for activity’s sake and how coaches, trainers, and leaders can realign their work to drive meaningful outcomes. The conversation strikes a balance between candor and pragmatism, reflecting on the courage required to challenge the status quo while acknowledging the human realities of making a living. If you’re grappling with agile theater and wondering how to bring more integrity to your practice, this discussion is a timely call to action.

Highlight Quotes / Concepts

* The tension between certification-driven training and real transformation

* The impact of commoditization on agile roles and courage

* How financial independence or reputation can enable principled interventions

* The idea of “forever employable” as a foundation for sustainable courage

Chapters

(00:00) Introduction and Speaker IntroductionsMeet Yuval, Jim, and Rick, and hear about their backgrounds in agile training and coaching.

(01:55) Discussing Outcomes in Agile TrainingExploring the irony of teaching outcome-focused techniques in a fundamentally output-driven training industry.

(05:07) Challenges in Agile Training and ConsultingYuval shares why current success metrics—certifications, butts in seats—are broken, and what it could look like to hold trainers accountable for real impact.

(10:17) The Reality of Agile Roles and Industry IssuesJim and Rick reflect on why the agile staffing and consulting ecosystem struggles to focus on value, not vanity metrics.

(13:41) Balancing Principles and PracticalityA candid conversation about the personal and systemic conflicts between paying bills and doing the right thing.

(23:10) Courage and Safety in Agile CoachingDiscussing Maslow’s hierarchy, courage, and why psychological safety is foundational to speaking truth to power.

(37:47) Conclusion and Future TopicsA look ahead to exploring what it really means to “put your own mask on first” in an agile career.

Notable Quotes

“We are guaranteeing the wrong things. We’re focused on vanity metrics. What would it look like if we started to focus on outcomes?”— Yuval Yeret

“There’s no courage in safety. If you’re already safe, what do you need the courage for?”— Rich Visotcky

“The unemployment line is full of people with strong principles and values.”— Jim Sammons

“Forever employable is something that is a good outcome for agileists to strive for—because that’s the only way they can be real agileists.”— Yuval Yeret

Guest Links and Resources

* Mastering Agility Podcast

* Jim Sammons on LinkedIn

* Rich Visotcky on LinkedIn

* Forever Employable by Jeff Gothelf

* Sense and Respond training partners

Call to Action

Suggested Experiment: Reflect on your own engagements: Are you measuring success by activity or by evidence of meaningful change? Try defining a “no-OKR”—an explicit non-goal—for your next engagement to clarify focus and reduce vanity work.

🌟 Yuval wants to help you scale your organization without falling into the process theater trap. Start with his free email course: Scaling w/ Agility Crash Course

🔗 Follow Yuval on LinkedIn

“Sometimes the bravest move is simply admitting you don’t know—and turning that into a testable hypothesis.” — Yuval

“You can spot a timid leader by the number of fences they’re sitting on; have an opinion and move the needle.” — Jim

“Policies you wrote to solve yesterday’s problems shouldn’t shackle tomorrow’s possibilities.” — Rich

(00:28) Exploring Leadership and Courage

(02:09) Empowered Teams and Small Acts of Courage

(05:57) Transparency and Decision Making

(07:04) Balancing Courage and Conviction

(09:40) Practical Leadership Tips

(15:04) Decision Making Frameworks

(18:31) Testing and Validating Decisions

(28:22) The Importance of Choice in Leadership

(29:00) Learning from Target’s Data Breach

(30:38) Testing Ideas in Smaller Timeframes

(32:08) Real-World Examples of Courage in Leadership

(38:07) Overcoming Invisible Barriers

Invisible fences—self-imposed constraints—often hold leaders back more than actual policies.

(48:41) Practical Techniques for Leadership Development

(50:33) Final Thoughts on Leadership and Agility

* Hypothesis Prioritisation Canvas – Sense & Respond Press

* Evidence-Based Management Guide – Scrum.org

* Liberating Structures (Critical Uncertainties, Ecocycle, Appreciative Interviews)

* Follow Rich on LinkedIn

* Follow Jim on LinkedIn

Experiment invitation: This week, pick one “invisible fence” in your organisation—something you assume you can’t do—and design a one-week safe-to-fail test to probe whether the fence is real. Share your plan (or results) and learning e.g. on Linkedin (Tag us if you’d like!)

Get started on your nuanced scaling journey in Yuval’s free Scaling w/ Agility Crash Course

Follow Yuval on Linkedin

🎯 Episode Overview

Yuval Yeret sits down with Jesper Boeg, an experienced transformation leader. Jesper has spent nearly two decades guiding organizations from team-level agile adoption to enterprise-wide agility. Together, they explore what real business agility looks like—beyond frameworks, dogma, and agile theater. The discussion dives into the evolving role of CXOs in driving adaptability, the pitfalls of applying agile practices indiscriminately, and the nuance required to align strategy, funding, and organizational design. This conversation is especially timely as leaders grapple with AI transformations, product-led growth, and the pressure to scale without losing focus or authenticity.

💡 Highlight Quotes / Concepts

“Don’t go in trying to find nails in the organization with your hammer. Go in light, try to sense, try to nudge.”

“If your funding is not matching how you’re set up, you’ll never move from your old strategy to your new one.”

“Consistency doesn’t mean uniform mechanics—it means shared principles and clear interfaces.”

“Business agility isn’t about sprints for HR. It’s about creating shorter lead times, better discovery, and the strategic adaptability to stay ahead.”

⏱️ Chapters

(00:00) Welcome and Introduction to Scaling with Agility(00:30) Meet Jesper: From team-level agile to enterprise transformation(02:00) The evolution of business agility and why it’s now a CXO problem(03:00) Defining business agility beyond rituals and frameworks(04:00) Jesper’s three elements of business agility: lead time, discovery, and strategic adaptability(09:00) Challenges of applying agile principles in the wrong places(14:00) Yuval’s story: Helping a biotech C-suite use agility to work on the company, not in it(18:00) Strategy before structure: Conways Law in action(20:00) Funding and capacity as critical levers for transformation(22:00) Lightweight interventions: Using simple boards to start the conversation(25:00) The importance of vertical slices vs. big bang transformation(30:00) AI transformation as a strategic bet: Applying product thinking internally(33:00) The danger of copy-paste scaling after early success(36:00) Principles over frameworks: Avoiding dogma and focusing on intent(40:00) Consistency, interfaces, and the challenge of defining the “API” for teams(43:00) Metrics, observability, and the risk of vanity measures(48:00) Why understanding the why behind principles matters more than tracking every number(51:00) Real product organizations vs. labeling technical solutions as “products”(53:00) Final advice: Start by defining what’s core, what’s context, and what truly matters(55:00) Closing thoughts and where to find Jesper online

✨ Notable Quotes

“If you cannot stay ahead of the curve, then your entire strategy is at risk.”“Business agility is an agile operating system for your business, not just your product value stream.”“I’m not in business to supply usable solutions for the transformation office. I’d rather have people passionate about their products and their ways of working.”“The law of the raspberry jam applies—when you spread too thin, you lose your effectiveness.”

Jesper Boeg’s New Company: Enterprise Movement (new site launching soon)

Jesper on LinkedIn: Jesper Boeg

Recommended Reading:

Crossing the Chasm by Geoffrey Moore (on early adopters and scaling)

How to apply crossing the chasm to transformation (Yuval's talk)

Lean Startup by Eric Ries (on build-measure-learn loops)

Accelerate by Nicole Forsgren et al. (on lead time and DevOps metrics)

Try this:Identify one strategic initiative in your organization—perhaps AI transformation or a shift to subscriptions. Instead of launching a company-wide program, explore applying a vertical slice approach: build a cross-functional team, empower them to iterate, and measure outcomes in a contained context.

Or, take Yuval’s free Scaling with Agility Crash Course to explore how to scale without falling into the process theater trap:👉 Scaling w/ Agility Crash Course

✍️ About Yuval

Yuval Yeret helps leaders maximize outcomes through strategic, nuanced agility. As a product, scaling, and agility-focused management consultant—and a SAFe Fellow/SPCT and Professional Scrum Trainer—he guides organizations beyond agile theater to achieve product-oriented agility while building on their past investments.

💡 Yuval wants to help you scale without falling into the process theater trap. Start here: Scaling w/ Agility Crash Course🔗 Follow Yuval on LinkedIn: Yuval Yeret

Yuval is a guest on this episode of the Private Equity Funcast focused on Agility in Private Equity: Beyond Agile TheaterSome topics Jim and Yuval cover –

- The importance of principle-driven agility over rigid adherence to frameworks.

- Leveraging agility in various industries, organizational functions, and broader business operations

- “Agile Theater,” where companies follow agile rules without understanding the process.

- OKRs (Objectives and Key Results) as strategic guides rather than rigid metrics.

- The unique position of private equity firms and consultants in driving agile transformations through pragmatic, principle-based solutions.

00:00 Introduction to Agile in Private Equity

00:45 Exploring the Synergies Between Agile and Private Equity

01:50 Welcome to the Scaling With Agility Podcast

02:07 Guest Introduction: Yuval Yeret

02:45 Yuval's Background in Product Development

04:13 The Evolution of Agile Practices

05:51 Challenges and Misconceptions in Agile Implementation

12:12 The Importance of Customer Feedback in Agile

14:42 Agile and Risk Management

16:48 Adapting to Market Changes and Disruptions

26:40 Implementing Agile in Founder-Owned Businesses

29:22 Building Effective Cross-Functional Teams

32:06 The Pitfalls of Over-Organized Cross-Functional Teams

33:34 The Waste in Work Processes

34:17 The Misuse of Agile and Strategic Goals

35:05 The Jeff Bezos Meeting Philosophy

35:46 Principles of Agile and Empiricism

36:58 The Agile Theater and Real-World Applications

38:12 Case Study: Biotech Firm's Scrum Implementation

40:50 Challenges in Product Management and Agile Processes

51:30 The BMW vs. Bulldozer Metaphor

54:39 Scaling Agile and Cross-Functional Collaboration

57:18 The Role of Private Equity in Agile Implementation

01:01:30 Concluding Thoughts and Contact InformationDive deeper

For more PE Fun - Check out the Private Equity FuncastLearn more about ParkerGale

Follow Jim Milbery

This is part two of my conversation with Dave West and Darryl Fernandez from the Scrum.org Community Podcast.

If part one was about seeing the portfolio mess, this one’s about wrestling with it: funding models that don’t quite fit, PMOs caught between old habits and new expectations, and the perennial challenge of making real trade-offs instead of just handing out more goals like party favors. We dig into why “fund the product, not the work” sounds great until you’re staring at 87 initiatives and a nonprofit board that thinks everything is top priority. We talk about how shifting from initiative-based funding to stable teams is less about spreadsheets and more about giving real ownership—and how that shift can get political, fast.

You’ll hear stories from the trenches—like how time sheets and CapEx accounting become the last hill to die on, and why running old and new models in parallel is sometimes the only sane way through. We also get into the weeds on cross-product initiatives, initiative owners vs. product owners, and why the only thing harder than aligning incentives is getting people to actually make choices.

If you’re looking for a playbook, you won’t find it here. But if you want to hear how leaders are actually navigating the mess—balancing flow, evidence, and the human side of change—you’re in the right place.

00:00 Introduction to Goal Setting Challenges

00:43 Welcome to Scaling With Agility

02:27 Introduction to the Podcast and Guests

04:31 Diving into Budgeting and Funding Models

05:49 Challenges with Funding Models and Team Structures

07:24 Political and Organizational Changes in Funding

13:37 Prioritization in Mission-Based Organizations

16:20 Capitalization and Financial Management

23:39 Adopting Evidence-Based Management

24:35 Product Portfolio Strategy in Startups

27:56 Aligning Product Decisions with Strategy

29:22 Implementing Guardrails and Empowerment

30:29 Balancing Technical Debt and Market Demands

32:48 The Importance of Transparent Conversations

39:47 Managing Cross-Product Initiatives

45:44 Empowering Product Owners and Initiative Owners

50:00 Aligning Business and Technology Goals

53:48 Conclusion and Key Takeaways

This episode was initially published on the Scrum.org Community Podcast https://podcasts.scrum.org/872401/episodes/16698612-q-a-on-product-portfolio-management-part-2-evolving-portfolio-management-for-product-success

Yuval shares real-world insights from working with scaleups, including a fascinating case study from a BioTech company that struggled to make OKRs work beyond a box-ticking exercise. We unpack the typical pitfalls that trap many organizations, from reinforcing silos instead of breaking them down, to drowning in tools and processes that create overload rather than clarity.

Key Takeaways

OKRs often become “Manager Mode” artifacts: They’re introduced as a grown-up way to manage growth but can feel like a bureaucratic burden if not thoughtfully implemented.

Common pitfalls with OKRs:

Using new processes to reinforce silos rather than bridge across teams.

Leaders micro-managing details instead of setting clear missions and stepping back.

Overloading teams with too many initiatives and tools, causing context-switching fatigue.

Imposing goals top-down without involving the team in mission and planning.

Fixing the OKR operating system:

Focus OKRs on what truly matters, not everything happening.

Organize teams and structure around these focused OKRs.

Shift from output to outcome-based goals (e.g., “Double the velocity of our search for therapeutics”).

Use collaborative, big-room goal-setting sessions to align the entire company.

Emphasize principles over pedantic processes: Agile is about empiricism and adaptation, not dogmatic Scrum rituals.

Leverage agility beyond software teams: Empower cross-functional teams to tackle key initiatives iteratively.

The payoff: More traction on important goals, less micromanagement, leadership freed up to focus on strategy, and employees feeling like players, not pawns.

Why This Matters

Scaling isn’t just about adding headcount or processes-it’s about evolving your operating system to keep Founder Mode alive while gaining the structure needed to grow. This episode offers a pragmatic, down-to-earth look at how to make OKRs work as a tool for agility and alignment, not just another checkbox.

Who Should Listen

Founders and leadership teams in scaleups who feel stuck or frustrated with their current goal-setting and agile practices.

Chiefs of Staff, COOs, and people leading organizational design and ways of working.

Anyone curious about the real-world challenges and solutions around scaling with agility.

Now What

If you’re wrestling with OKRs or scaling challenges, you might find Yuval's Mastering Organizational Traction Email Course useful - https://yuvalyeret.com/mastering-organizational-traction-trail-map/

Thanks for tuning in! Don’t forget to subscribe and share if this episode hit home.

Chapters

00:08 The Agile Shift in AI and Podcast Rebranding

01:07 Philip Morgan's Background in Positioning

02:36 Yuval's Role as a Plumber for Engineering Pipelines

06:53 How Pain and Opportunity Drive Change (Gillette & Biotech Examples)

15:51 Introspective and Compound Engineering

17:08 Exploring AI Theater vs. Agile Theater

21:44 Shifting Bottlenecks: From Coding to Code Review and Adoption

28:04 The Trap of Vanity Metrics and Token Maxing

33:26 Moving from Output to Outcomes and Business Impact

40:50 Breaking the Status Quo and Resisting AI Mandates

56:21 Unreasonable Agility: Taking R&D on the Offense

Notable Quotes

"If you want to succeed with it, find somebody who talks about the principles, who understands it in depth, who can make changes while still being aligned to the spirit." - Yuval Yeret

"People will find a way to use AI without really getting any value. They will find a way to generate a lot of activity, but not really create any change in the impact." - Yuval Yeret

"There's a sense in which it seems like Agile was sort of waiting for AI." - Philip Morgan

Ready to stop measuring tokens and start measuring real business outcomes?

Reach out to Yuval at yuvalyeret.com or yuval@yeretagility.com to discuss how to build unreasonable agility into your organization.

About PhilipPhilip Morgan is a positioning and point-of-view expert who helps independent service providers thrive by leveraging effective market positioning. He is the author of multiple books on the topic and shares his insights freely at ⁠philipmorgan.net⁠.Scaling AI: From Activity to Impact — yuvalyeret.com

The Scaling w/ Agility Newsletter – yuvalyeret.com/insights

Yuval's Linkedin – https://www.linkedin.com/in/yuvalyeret/

Continuous Improvement

Autonomy and Empowerment

Organizing Around Value

Sustainable Pace

Alignment around Outcome-oriented Goals

Energized People

Leaders who Serve

Speed and Empiricism

All worthy Agility Principles (at least I think so…) 

But why should anyone care? 

I mean, it’s much healthier to focus on principles than practices as a goal. 

But even these principles are a form of HOW. They don’t answer the WHY. 

Ask “So what happens if we DON’T follow this principle?” a couple of times and you will get closer to expensive problems:

* Miscommunication, duplicated efforts, and decreased effectiveness.

* Delays and an inability to adapt to changing conditions.

* Bottlenecks, demotivated employees, and ineffective product development processes.

* High turnover rates and decreased output quality.

* Poor team morale, lack of direction, and reduced organizational success.

Ask “so what” again and you get to some juicy expensive problems business leaders might actually be losing sleep over: 

* Wasted resources, increased operational costs, and missed strategic opportunities (a really expensive problem in the age where money isn’t free anymore)

* Falling behind competitors, losing market share, and failing to meet customer expectations. 

* Hindered innovation, slowed time to market, and subpar product quality, impacting revenue growth.

* Increased recruitment and training costs, disrupted team cohesion, and negatively affected customer satisfaction.

* Decreased productivity, inability to achieve business objectives, and a decline in overall organizational health and profitability.

Now what? 

Option 1: You already know you want to focus on a specific principle. Great. Make sure you include a “Why Now” that connects it to an expensive problem. (and if you can’t find one – maybe rethink the conviction on that principle? ) 

Option 2: Start with a Why conversation exploring the expensive problems your organization is currently having. THEN try to find the agility principle that would help address that problem.

Here’s an example:

Don’t tell a senior business director, “We’re gonna use KPIs now”. Don’t even tell them “We’re gonna work on improving Alignment, Outcome-orientation, and Empiricism now”Don’t even tell the,m “We’re going to use KPIs to improve alignment so that we deliver better business wins.”(don’t ask me how I know…)

Instead, Facilitate a dialogue around the top expensive problem on their minds. Use Five Whys or Cause and Effect Loops to identify principles that could help. Explore which practices make sense to everyone to try and work on that expensive problem. 

"Agile is risk-driven development - You're surfing that risk."

00:00 The Correlation Between Value and Risk

04:12 De-risking Strategies in Product Development

10:46 Agile as a Risk-Driven Approach

00:00 Introduction to Coordination Tax

00:08 The Coordination Challenge

01:35 A New Approach: Virtual Value Centers

02:42 Prioritization and Trade-offs

03:19 Success Story: Gillette's Exfoliating Razor

04:18 Optimizing for Flow

05:08 Overcoming Constraints

07:21 Practical Interventions

09:25 The Goal: Conscious Focus

10:21 Conclusion: Organizing Around Outcomes

The Scaling w/ Agility Newsletter - yuvalyeret.com/insights

Yuval's Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/yuvalyeret/

About the Guest

Tomer Elias is a product executive with more than 15 years leading startups from zero to one and one to 100, through unicorn and IPO stages. His focus has been AI and data throughout. He was part of the first AI lab in Israel, helped build a cybersecurity unicorn, and served on a committee defining agentic identity standards alongside OpenAI, AWS, and Cloudflare. He is currently mapping how enterprises adopt AI and where they sit on the maturity curve.

Chapters
00:00 Why this conversation
00:54 Tomer's background: AI labs, a cyber unicorn, agentic identity standards
02:26 What actually changed with gen AI: ambiguity
02:50 Human operating systems and agent operating systems
06:17 Setting a token cap, and why the number isn't the point
07:19 Measuring outcomes was broken long before AI
08:43 Activity, output, outcome, impact: what the work really looks like
10:55 AI surfaces the organizational DNA you never fixed
11:19 The factory lens: an industrial engineer's view of the enterprise
14:31 Goldratt and the constraint: where AI actually pays
15:56 Two levels of observability: spec conformance vs. value
19:00 A worked example: meeting transcripts as context
20:33 Kill criteria and staged funding for AI experiments
22:41 Build vs. buy, and the question nobody asks first
25:09 The rise of the business engineer
25:50 The digital twin that knows your stack
28:06 Data infrastructure: the real enterprise blocker
30:05 Closing the loop: telemetry, usage, decisions
34:12 Psychological safety and toxic token usage
39:32 Security guardrails: MCP safety, DLP, sandboxes
42:54 Who builds beyond product and engineering?
46:54 Teaching product skills instead of staffing PMs

Notable Quotes

"AI puts the credit card at the hand of the employees. But without the oversight and training, costs can spiral. But high usage doesn't really mean a bad thing. It's not good or bad. The question is what's the impact that you get out of that." — Tomer Elias

"Once you implement AI in your organization, it surfaces your DNA and the organizational culture that didn't change for a while and now needs to change if you really want to push impact with AI." — Tomer Elias

"Any improvement away from the bottleneck or from the constraint is meaningless, and any improvement directly at the constraint is a real multiplier." — Yuval Yeret

"If it's a healthy DNA, people would feel safe to experiment. And if it's a toxic culture, you would get toxic token usage and activity theater." — Yuval Yeret

Links and Resources
Eliyahu Goldratt, Theory of Constraints and The Goal
Real options and innovation accounting for staged funding of experiments
Tools referenced in the conversation: Glean, Zapier, Salesforce, Gong, Datadog, Claude, ChatGPT
Tomer Elias on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomer-elias1

If you're working on turning AI activity into business impact, I write about this every week in the Scaling w/ Agility newsletter.

Creators and Guests
Yuval Yeret — Host, AI transformation advisor
Tomer Elias — Product executive, AI and data

Scaling AI: From Activity to Impact — yuvalyeret.com
The Scaling w/ Agility Newsletter – yuvalyeret.com/insights
Yuval's Linkedin – https://www.linkedin.com/in/yuvalyeret/

Ever feel like your product organization is stuck in the mud? You’re not alone. Many teams start strong, laser-focused on delivering value and achieving product-market fit. But as success scales, things get messy. Dependencies pile up, alignment fades, and suddenly, you’re running a feature factory instead of an empowered product organization.

Why Do Product Organizations Stall?

Here’s the typical lifecycle:

* Early Days: One team, minimal dependencies, clear goals. It’s all about finding product-market fit and delivering value fast.

* Growth Phase: Demand grows, teams specialize, and suddenly alignment becomes a challenge. Conversations shift from outcomes to scope and timelines.

* Scaling Chaos: Multiple products and cross-company initiatives create sprawling dependencies. Work devolves into projects managed with traditional methods (even if they’re disguised as “Agile”).

The result? Fewer empowered teams, more inefficiencies, and a lot of frustration.

Think about it like an upside-down pyramid—where most of the work is tangled and component-oriented, teams that can deliver features on their own are in the top 10%, and a team that owns a product/outcome and can run fast feedback loops, trying different features to move the needle on a metric that matters is a unicorn.

Flipping the Pyramid

To escape this trap, we need to rethink how work is structured and push as much work down to the healthier base of the pyramid:

* Empowered Product Teams are the foundation of a healthy organization. These teams own outcomes aligned with strategic goals and operate autonomously. We want to move as much work as possible into such teams. This might require changing product topology, team structure, and product architecture and identifying platforms / enabling teams that reduce the context and breadth needed to deliver product outcomes.

* Product Groups: For work that spans multiple teams but can still be managed within a focused group. Use when you can’t create an empowered product team, or it doesn’t make sense yet. Or when you want to encourage synergies across a set of products.

* Strategic Initiatives: A small set of cross-organizational efforts managed with flow principles—focused on outcomes, evidence-driven, and limited in scope to avoid chaos. Once you limit your focus, you can apply product thinking at this level, to maximize the outcomes of these strategic initiatives.

(Does this flipping the pyramid sound familiar? It’s inspired by the Test Automation Pyramid, which is a key framework in the Agile Testing world.)

NOTE: I got the idea for this article, and especially the visual above, from a conversation with John Cutler and his article on Work Shape Mix:

The Roadmap to Change

This isn’t an overnight fix. Transforming into a healthy product organization requires:

* Aligning on strategic goals and priorities.

* Actively limiting the amount of work that is pulled into the higher levels of the Pyramid.

* Using the healthy pyramid as a north star for architectural changes that help detangle products. (Melt the iron spaghetti…)

* Building platforms and enabling teams to support empowered teams.

* Carefully managing the balance between team autonomy and organizational alignment.

* Applying product thinking even to large-scale initiatives—closing feedback loops faster and steering with evidence.

(This trail map is based on the Portfolio Agility Trail Map – a guide for applying an Agile Product Operating Model at scale)

Why It Matters

A flipped pyramid means less micromanagement, more innovation, and a clearer path to delivering real value, not just features or timelines. It’s about creating an environment where empowered teams thrive and your organization can scale without losing its soul.

Curious about how to flip your Product Pyramid? Let’s figure out your Product Operating Model Strategy—together.

Inside this Episode

• (00:00) The G&A Specialization Trap — Why splitting into silos for efficiency actually slows you down.

• (04:44) Rules vs. Trust — How to stop punishing the many for the past mistakes of the few.

• (10:18) Goals, Principles, and Rules — Building a framework that gives employees context instead of just a checklist.

• (15:05) Stewardship as Organizational Gardening — Why you must tend the "relational soil" where growth happens.

• (24:06) Blurring the Org Chart — Leveraging overlapping responsibilities to catch value that typically slips through the cracks.

• (39:49) Identifying "Zombie" Policies — How to audit the relics of past bureaucracy currently draining your team.

• (52:32) The Bird’s-Eye View of G&A — Transitioning to agile, interdependent service teams that scale with the business.

Notable Quotes & Aha Moments

• "If we trust people to work on million-dollar experiments, we should probably trust them to make $10,000 decisions."

• "Stewardship is recognizing the complexity of an organization and knowing what should be controlled versus what should be tended."

• "We accept silos as 'just how work is,' but those boxes are exactly what prevents flow."

• "The only way out of the 'rat race' is to collaborate—it leads to belonging rather than isolation."

Deepen the Relationship

Connect with Tyson, who’s working on evolving partnership ecosystems in Biotech

Dive deeper into the world of Stewardship in Michelle’s book The Age of Thrivability

Your Next Step: Take the bird’s eye view

Invite a few people from around your G&A organization to take the bird’s eye view with you. What do you see? What’s flowing? What’s clogged? What could be the benefit of taking the bird’s eye view more often? 

Scaling w/ Agility with Yuval Yeret

Yuval Yeret helps scale-up leaders build resilient, high-capacity, thriving ecosystems that drive real business results. Get more of Yuval’s insights on scaling organizations with agility.

* Why organizations need a Product Operating Model

* Comparison of POM to traditional agile methodologies

* Introduction to the concept of “feature factories”

* Discussion on the continuum from activity to outputs to outcomes

* The key characteristics of a Product Operating Model

Reflection question: Can you identify the dynamics of the feature factory in your organization?

About the Navigating the Product Operating Model Landscape Audio Series

What You’ll Learn:

* Why Agile Feature Factories Fail—and What to Do About It

* Assessing Your Current Operating Model—Are You Stuck in Projects?

* Principles of Effective Product Operating Models

* When does a Product Operating Model make sense?

* Making It Real: Mapping Your Trail Toward Transformation

Each episode is focused, practical, and designed to help leaders at scale-ups, mid-size, and pragmatic enterprise organizations navigate their product journey. You can find all the episodes here in the Scaling w/ Agility podcast feed.

This is for you if you’re:

* A Head of Product, Technology, Engineering, or Product Ops, trying to apply or scale product-led practices

* Tired of theory or comprehensive perspective frameworks and hungry for real-world strategies that work

* Too busy to sit down for training or even watch a video “masterclass” (Webinar in disguise…) and prefer to consume audio podcasts.

* Not a fan of 6-figure, inspiring slide decks left behind by expensive consulting firms and product experts.

My name is Yuval Yeret. I’m a Product/Scaling coach focused on helping Product and Tech Leaders leverage product/agility principles and practices to deliver more valuable outcomes at scale.

I hope you find this audio series useful.

I’d love to get your feedback and help you navigate this landscape - https://yuvalyeret.com/work-with-me/figure-out-your-product-operating-model-strategy/

Interested in more of my insights on the Product world? https://yuvalyeret.com/category/blog/product/

Ever feel like you’re the “agile person” in the room—brought in to run ceremonies, fix Jira boards, or play Scrum cop, but never actually invited to shape real strategy? You’re not alone. In this episode, Yuval sits down with Michael Gerharz—a computer scientist turned communication coach—to dig into why so many agilists get trapped in process theater, why it’s so tough to voice uncomfortable truths, and how to actually show up as a strategic partner instead of a tactical commodity.

About the Guest

Michael Gerharz helps leaders worldwide communicate with irresistible clarity, enabling their ideas to have the impact they deserve. His goal is to help you find words you truly believe in about the things you deeply care about.

Chapters

(00:00) – Welcome and why agile folks feel stuck in the “ceremony” rut

(01:00) – Michael’s journey: from frustrated academic to communication coach

(02:00) – Why more agilists are turning to communication experts

(03:00) – Three big themes: Agile as theater, the struggle to voice hard truths, and the challenge of articulating value

(05:00) – The commoditization of agile and the rise of checklist culture

(08:00) – The vicious cycle: idealism meets organizational resistance

(10:00) – Why preaching doesn’t work—and what to do instead

(11:00) – Method wars, black-and-white thinking, and why nuance is so rare

(14:00) – Human nature, echo chambers, and why LinkedIn rewards extremism

(16:00) – What actually works: ditching jargon, speaking the language of the business

(19:00) – The “curse of knowledge” and why agile compilers miss the mark

(21:00) – Meeting people where they are: North Star vs. tactical signposts

(25:00) – The PATH framework: Plain, Actionable, Transformative, Heartfelt

(27:00) – Where to learn more about Michael’s work

Notable Quotes

“Agile has become more of a theater than actual progress… the process has become more important than the progress it’s meant to fuel.” — Michael Gerharz

“Organizations don’t necessarily like to be shown themselves. The agile mirror doesn’t show your good side or your bad side—it just shows you, and that’s uncomfortable.” — Yuval Yeret

“The more you know about something, the harder it gets to speak about it in simple terms. That’s the curse of knowledge.” — Michael Gerharz

“If you’re not releasing something at the end of the sprint, you’re not doing it right… but most businesses live in the real world, not the Scrum Guide.” — Yuval Yeret

Guest’s Links and Resources

Michael’s book: The PATH to Strategic Impact—A practical guide to communicating strategy for real progress, built around the PATH principles: Plain and Simple, Actionable, Transformative, and Heartfelt. https://michaelgerharz.com/the-path/

Free “PATH in a Nutshell” guide: michaelgerharz.com/path-in-a-nutshell/—A concise summary of the core ideas from the book, plus a series of real-world case studies3.

Creators and Guests

Guest: Michael Gerharz – Communication coach, author, and advocate for plain language and strategic impact https://michaelgerharz.com/

Want to move beyond process theater and get traction on real outcomes? Subscribe, share your feedback, or reach out to Yuval for a conversation about scaling without the dogma.

The Scaling w/ Agility Newsletter – https://yuvalyeret.com/insights

Yuval's Linkedin – https://www.linkedin.com/in/yuvalyeret/

I created the “Navigating the Product Operating Model Landscape” audio series to help product and technology leaders like you gain clarity on the path from a product/agile theater feature factory to becoming an empowered, outcome-oriented, and scalable product organization.

In this episode:

* Introduction to the podcast series on navigating the Product Operating Model (POM) landscape

* Overview of topics to be covered:

* What’s behind the buzz around POM?

* How POM differs from previous investments in product organization and agile transformation

* The rise in popularity of product thinking

* Differences between POM, product-led organizations, and product-led growth

* When it makes sense for product/technology leaders to consider applying POM

* Purpose: Provide actionable insights for product and technology leaders considering POM implementation

About the Navigating the Product Operating Model Landscape Audio Series

What You’ll Learn:

* Why Agile Feature Factories Fail—and What to Do About It

* Assessing Your Current Operating Model—Are You Stuck in Projects?

* Principles of Effective Product Operating Models

* When does a Product Operating Model make sense?

* Making It Real: Mapping Your Trail Toward Transformation

Each episode is focused, practical, and designed to help leaders at scale-ups, mid-size, and pragmatic enterprise organizations navigate their product journey. You can find all the episodes here in the Scaling w/ Agility podcast feed.

This is for you if you’re:

* A Head of Product, Technology, Engineering, or Product Ops, trying to apply or scale product-led practices

* Tired of theory or comprehensive perspective frameworks and hungry for real-world strategies that work

* Too busy to sit down for training or even watch a video “masterclass” (Webinar in disguise…) and prefer to consume audio podcasts.

* Not a fan of 6-figure, inspiring slide decks left behind by expensive consulting firms and product experts.

My name is Yuval Yeret. I’m a Product/Scaling coach focused on helping Product and Tech Leaders leverage product/agility principles and practices to deliver more valuable outcomes at scale.

I hope you find this audio series useful.

I’d love to get your feedback and help you navigate this landscape - https://yuvalyeret.com/work-with-me/figure-out-your-product-operating-model-strategy/

Interested in more of my insights on the Product world? https://yuvalyeret.com/category/blog/product/

This episode explores some of the most hotly debated elements of SAFe: why it’s so popular, where it goes off the rails, and how leadership, structure, and context shape whether SAFe is a recipe for real agility or just another case of process theater.

* “Are we putting agile lipstick on a waterfall pig?”

* “The question isn’t whether SAFe is good or bad, it’s how it is used—and to what end.”

* “Structure helps at scale, but only if it doesn’t choke the principles you’re trying to scale.”

* “If you’re not living and breathing agile principles, the framework doesn’t matter.”

* “You have to actually do the work. The mindset. The principles. Otherwise, it’s just theater.”

* “SAFe is a tool. Like any tool, it can be misused—or used in context to create real value.”

* “It’s supposed to be evolution, not revolution. But sometimes that evolution just reinforces old habits.”

Chapters

(00:00) Introduction to Scaling with Agility and SAFe(01:06) Why SAFe Is So Popular (and Why That’s Not Always a Good Thing)(02:02) Critiques and the Waterfall Rebrand Debate(03:54) PI Planning: Powerful Tool or Planning Trap?(06:58) Leadership’s Role: Are You Chasing Cheaper or Embracing Change?(07:59) Scrum Master Controversies: Servant Leader or Project Manager 2.0?(09:41) SAFe's Response to the Command-and-Control Critique(11:55) The Product Owner Fracture: Customer Focus or Confused Ownership?(14:33) When SAFe Helps—And When It Hurts(15:09) Final Thoughts: Agility Is a Mindset, Not a Framework

Want more than the highlights? Check out the Breaking the SAFe video series

🔥 Are you looking for a way to safely scale with SAFe?→ Start with Yuval’s free email course: Scaling w/ Agility Crash Course

Yuval Yeret helps leaders maximize outcomes through strategic, nuanced agility. As a product/scaling/agility-focused management consultant, he guides organizations beyond agile theater and feature factories toward product-oriented agility—drawing on deep expertise as a SAFe Fellow, SPCT, and Professional Scrum Trainer.

📍 Follow Yuval on LinkedIn

In the final episode of this three-part series, Yuval Yeret works through the most complex version of the product ownership question: what happens when a product has grown to multiple teams? The default answer — one team, one product owner — often creates titles without real ownership, especially when teams are organized around technical components rather than product value. Yuval walks through when multi-team product leadership genuinely works, when it doesn't, and what the more uncomfortable conversation underneath usually turns out to be about.

This episode lands the series with the most structurally challenging scenario, and connects product ownership topology directly to team design — one of the most consequential and often avoided conversations in scaling organizations. Essential listening for product directors, heads of engineering, and CTOs navigating a growing product org.

• The right question: Not "how many product owners do we need?" but "how many genuine product problems does this product have?" — a reframe that clarifies the structure instantly.
• Mini-products inside a larger product: When teams are organized around real, independently deliverable slices of product value, multi-leader structures work well. The razor example makes this concrete: shaving experience, handle design, packaging, and price viability are all genuine product problems that can be owned semi-independently.
• The symptom vs. the diagnosis: If your teams can't deliver value independently, giving them product owner titles won't fix it. The ownership problem is a symptom. The team design problem is the diagnosis.

"Product ownership only really makes sense when a team can deliver something of genuine value independently. When they can take a customer problem, work on it, and ship something that actually moves the needle — without needing three other teams to complete it first."

"Giving each of those teams a product owner doesn't change the underlying dynamic. It adds titles without adding real ownership. And what you often end up with is product owners who feel like they should have more authority than they do, and teams that are still fundamentally waiting on each other."

"If your teams can't deliver value independently, the product ownership question is a symptom. The underlying question is whether the team structure is set up to enable that kind of independence — and if not, what it would take to get there."— Yuval Yeret

Related reading on yuvalyeret.com:

• When and Why Do We Need a Product Operating Model?

Are your teams structured around genuine product problems they can own end to end? Or around technical components that make independent ownership hard?

Experiment to try this week: Pick one team in your product org. Ask them: what's the last thing you shipped that delivered value to a customer without depending on another team to complete it? If they struggle to answer, you have a team design question hiding inside your product ownership question.

Yuval Yeret helps leaders maximize outcomes through strategic, nuanced agility. As both a SAFe Fellow/SPCT and Professional Scrum Trainer, Yuval is frequently brought in to help organizations evolve from agile theater and feature factories toward product-oriented agility — building on existing investments rather than starting over.

📩 Start here: Scaling w/ Agility Crash Course — a free email course to help you scale without falling into the process theater trap.

🔗 Follow Yuval on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/yuvalyeret

Think of this as a trail map, not a recipe. We riff on why portfolio agility is turtles all the way down—how the same principles of flow and transparency that work for teams can (and should) scale up, but only if you’re willing to experiment, visualize the mess, and start small with intent. You’ll hear stories from the trenches—like why starting with a single strategic initiative, instead of a big-bang reorg, can give you the leverage you need to turn the aircraft carrier without capsizing the whole fleet1.

0:00 Introduction to Scaling With Agility

00:23 Welcome and Episode Overview

01:38 Scrum.org Community Podcast Introduction

01:46 Answering Webinar Questions on Agile Product Operating Model

03:25 Principles of Portfolio Management

04:22 Starting with Flow and Evidence-Based Management

08:45 Quarterly Business Reviews and Organizational Readiness

14:39 Balancing Change and Organizational Constraints

32:40 Defining Value Across the Portfolio

39:52 Conclusion and Future Discussions

This Q&A About Product Portfolio Management was initially published on the Scrum.org Community Podcast - https://podcasts.scrum.org/872401/episodes/16534612-q-a-about-product-portfolio-management-part-1

The Portfolio Agility Trail Map is available at https://yuvalyeret.com/the-portfolio-agility-trail-map/

Today's conversation is with a CTO who's working in the trenches to scale the impact of AI on their organization.

Kumar Venugopal, CTO of Zoetis, the world's largest animal health company, is redesigning how the entire organization makes decisions, builds products, and defines roles — with AI at the center.

In this episode you'll learn what it actually takes to move from personal productivity to organizational transformation, how Zoetis is targeting a 26-day infrastructure workflow down to 2-3 days using a three-agent pipeline, why design thinking is the skill that separates useful AI output from useless output, and why agile matters more in the AI era, not less.

"The real opportunity with AI isn't strictly automation. It's how you embed it into how we make decisions." — Kumar Venugopal

"We are doubling down on Agile. Even the agentic approach has to be built with a minimum viable product approach, with proper user stories. The cycles are a lot faster, but the process doesn't go away." — Kumar Venugopal

Chapters:
00:00 Introduction — from 8086 to the AI era
03:01 Why this AI wave feels systemically different
05:30 AI in veterinary diagnostics and decision-making
08:12 The four levels of AI integration
11:01 Infrastructure automation — 26 days to 2-3 days
13:57 Design thinking as the missing AI skill
16:29 Build vs. buy — can vibe coding replace SaaS?
19:26 Who does this work and what's the real constraint
21:58 Three competencies every employee needs
25:11 Why Agile is more important now, not less
27:45 Scaling AI beyond the technology organization
30:30 Kumar's three-step change model for leaders

Follow Kumar on LinkedIn for practitioner-level insights from inside a live AI transformation.

What you'll hear:

• Why platform teams often end up without real product leadership even when someone has the product owner title
• The difference between having a title and having organizational standing
• How escalation patterns are usually a structural signal, not a performance problem
• One approach to giving platform teams genuine product direction — and why it's usually less disruptive than it sounds

From Shared Service to Strategic PlatformIf your platform team stopped shipping tomorrow, what would happen to your other products? If the answer is trouble — that team is one of the most strategically important things in your portfolio. It just doesn't look like it because it doesn't have a price tag on it. Strategic things need real ownership.

This is part of a three-episode series on product ownership topology considerations in the trenches:

• Episode B (this one): The internal platform problem
• Episode A: One product, one team — who actually owns it?
• Episode C: Multiple teams — when do you need more than one product leader?

About Yuval

Yuval Yeret helps midmarket and scaleup leaders shift from product development and business growth friction to impact through nuanced product thinking and agility applied in the tech/product org and beyond.

For more insights check out www.yuvalyeret.com/insights

Follow Yuval's Linkedin – https://www.linkedin.com/in/yuvalyeret/

"You have to be agile about agile."

"It's about the speed of the whole system."

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Scaling with Agility

00:57 Understanding Ares Software and Its Journey

03:38 Challenges in Scaling and the Need for Methodology

05:31 Implementing SAFe: Initial Steps and Training

06:46 Outcomes of SAFe Implementation

08:28 Impact of COVID-19 on Agile Practices

11:14 Improvements and Trade-offs with SAFe

14:21 Team Structure and Mentorship in Agile

17:28 Evolving Beyond SAFe: Exploring New Methodologies

19:58 Tweaks and Innovations in Agile Practices

22:46 Analyzing Development Processes

24:12 Managing Iterations and Team Dependencies

26:53 Empowered Teams and Agile Structures

29:31 Adapting Agile Practices

32:59 Impact of Private Equity on Agile Practices

37:58 Navigating AI's Influence on Development

40:57 Key Takeaways from the Agile Journey

Follow Andrey on Linkedin

Learn more about Aras Software and its journey towards agility

Yuval Yeret is a business flow coach for the age of AI. Yuval is focused on helping mid-market and scale-up companies such as ARAS Software tackle hard shifts/inflection points and regain traction, speed, and impact through nuanced agility interventions.

https://yuvalyeret.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/yuvalyeret/

Drawing from more than a decade of experience guiding enterprise transformations, Yuval argues that starting at the portfolio level—early—isn’t just helpful, it’s essential.

He walks listeners through a powerful case study involving a 1000-person delivery organization trapped in a waterfall-heavy, high-coordination setup. By introducing lightweight Portfolio Kanban and visual flow management before fixing the teams, the organization was able to gradually shift to a more outcome-oriented, product-focused structure.

“The best time to start thinking about portfolio-level agility was when you started your agile journey. The second-best time? Now.”

“You don’t need to wait for perfect teams to start fixing the system around them. In fact, doing it the other way around often fails.”

“Portfolio-level practices give leaders massive leverage—they shape the environment teams operate in.”

“Fixing what’s broken requires looking upstream—at how work is shaped, prioritized, and flows through the organization.”

“Leaders who model outcome orientation, empiricism, and agility at the portfolio level create a ripple effect. Everything else becomes easier.”

“Instead of waiting until the trenches are perfect, start by changing the terrain.”

(00:23) The Best (and Worst) Time to Introduce Portfolio Practices

(00:56) Misconceptions: “You Can’t Scale What’s Broken”

(01:46) Case Study: A 1000-Person Delivery Org in Waterfall Hell

(03:53) Visualizing Work and Creating Flow Transparency

(05:04) Reorganizing Around Value and Embracing Change

(05:42) Why Portfolio-Level Agility = Leadership Leverage

(06:16) The Portfolio Agility Trail Map: Yuval’s Free Resource

(08:38) Final Thoughts: Start with the System, Not Just the Teams

🔥 Ready to shift the system—not just the teams? Start with Yuval’s free Portfolio Agility Trail Map.

Yuval Yeret helps leaders maximize outcomes through strategic, nuanced agility. As a Product/Scaling/Agility-focused management consultant, SAFe Fellow, and Professional Scrum Trainer, he specializes in helping organizations evolve beyond agile theater into product-oriented agility.

Start your journey with his free email course:🎓 Scaling w/ Agility Crash Course

Follow Yuval's insights and conversations on LinkedIn:🔗 Yuval’s LinkedIn

In this episode:

* Challenges of maintaining agility as organizations grow

* Introduction to the “flipped pyramid” concept

* Types of teams needed for effective scaling

* Strategies for “descaling” to push work back to empowered teams

About the Navigating the Product Operating Model Landscape Audio Series

What You’ll Learn:

* Why Agile Feature Factories Fail—and What to Do About It

* Assessing Your Current Operating Model—Are You Stuck in Projects?

* Principles of Effective Product Operating Models

* When does a Product Operating Model make sense?

* Making It Real: Mapping Your Trail Toward Transformation

Subscribe to the free audio mini course here: https://yuvalyeret.com/from-buzzwords-to-clarity-product-operating-model-audio-mini-course/

This is for you if you’re:

* A Head of Product, Technology, Engineering, or Product Ops trying to apply or scale product-led practices

* Tired of theory or comprehensive perspective frameworks and hungry for real-world strategies that work

* Too busy to sit down for training or even watch a video “masterclass” (Webinar in disguise…) and prefer to consume audio podcasts.

* Not a fan of 6-figure, inspiring slide decks left behind by expensive consulting firms and product experts.

Need help navigating the product transformation landscape? https://yuvalyeret.com/work-with-me/figure-out-your-product-operating-model-strategy/

Interested in more of my insights on the Product world? https://yuvalyeret.com/category/blog/product/

In this episode of Scaling with Agility, Notebook LM hosts provide an audio overview to Yuval Yeret and Ryan Ripley's Breaking the SAFe series. They dive into the Scaled Agile Framework (SAFe), exploring its strengths, weaknesses, and the controversies surrounding its implementation. They dissect various components of SAFe, such as PI planning and the roles of Scrum Masters and Product Owners, and debate whether SAFe is genuinely agile or just 'rebranded waterfall'. They address popular criticisms and discuss how organizations can navigate the complexities of scaling agile frameworks while staying true to core agile principles.

00:00 Introduction to Scaling with Agility

01:06 Overview of Safe and Its Popularity

02:02 Critiques and Challenges of Safe

03:54 The Role of PI Planning in Safe

06:58 Leadership and Implementation in Safe

07:59 Controversial Aspects: Scrum Master and Product Owner Roles

08:25 Scrum Master vs. Project Manager

09:02 Scrum Master's Role in Safe

09:41 Criticism of Safe's Approach

10:28 Safe's Response to Criticism

11:55 Safe's Approach to Product Ownership

12:39 Challenges with Fractured Product Ownership

14:33 Evaluating Safe's Effectiveness

15:09 Conclusion and Final ThoughtsWant more? Check out the complete Breaking The SAFe series on YoutubeAdditional nuanced takes on safely scaling w/ SAFeSubscribe to Yuval's Scaling w/ Agility Crash Course

Highlight Quotes / Concepts

* Why most AI proofs of concept never scale—and what to do instead

* Internal market validation as a critical success factor

* Adapting agile practices to the unique uncertainty of AI

* Recognizing and preventing common anti-patterns when combining AI and agility

Chapters

(01:28) Clemens Adolphs’ Background and Journey into AI Implementation(03:46) Challenges Organizations Face When Bringing AI into Production(09:02) The Role of Prototyping and Experimentation in AI Projects(11:09) Why Internal Market Validation Beats Metrics Theater(16:29) Collaboration Models and Execution Patterns for AI Work(23:10) Agile Practices and Anti-Patterns: What Works and What Doesn’t(38:13) Closing Remarks and How to Connect with Clemens

Notable Quotes

“The proof of concept is where AI projects often go to die. You need to design for internal market validation early on.” — Clemens Adolphs

“Agile is not a one-size-fits-all recipe—especially when you’re dealing with the inherent uncertainty of AI.” — Yuval Yeret

“Metrics are useful, but if they’re not tied to actual adoption or impact, you’re just performing success, not achieving it.” — Clemens Adolphs

Guest’s Links and Resources

* AIce Labs

* Follow/Connect to Clemens Adolphs on LinkedIn

Yuval

Yuval Yeret helps leaders maximize outcomes through strategic, nuanced agility. These days, he’s focused on helping business leaders of mid-market/scaleup companies improve time to impact on strategic investments such as AI transformation. As a Product, Scaling, and Agility-focused management consultant, he’s worked with companies across tech, R&D, biotech - supporting both product/tech organizations as well as the broader business in delivering better outcomes using agility.

* Developing your AI capabilities using Agility

* Free Email Course: Scaling w/ Agility Crash Course

* Follow Yuval on LinkedIn

00:00 Dependencies Everywhere?

00:20 Common Solutions and Their Pitfalls

00:41 Descaling and Empowered Product Teams

02:04 Identifying Constraints and Topology Options

03:39 Case Study: Scaling Startup with Specialized Database

05:03 Evaluating and Implementing Design Options

06:03 Experimentation and Change Management

07:40 T-Shaped Teams and Collective Ownership

09:35 Conclusion and Further Resources

https://yuvalyeret.com/the-portfolio-agility-trail-map/The No BS Scaling w/ Agility Podcast - For leaders who aim to scale their organization with nuanced agility instead of the Agile Theater BS

The Scaling w/ Agility Newsletter – yuvalyeret.com/insights

Yuval's Linkedin – https://www.linkedin.com/in/yuvalyeret/

This episode uses flow thinking, cumulative flow, and the theory of constraints to help leaders see where AI speed is creating congestion — and where human + AI effort should be aimed next.

Key takeaways:• AI creates speed, not automatic value — speed only counts if it improves end-to-end flow• AI impact is asymmetric: engineering scales faster than discovery, adoption, and value validation• Local productivity can create system-level congestion once the bottleneck moves• Tech debt hides the new bottleneck — engineering absorbs extra capacity into easy-to-validate cleanup• Inventory is the signal: watch where work waits, loops, or gets reworked• Subordinate human and AI effort to the current constraint — don't spread enablement evenly

Chapters:00:00 — The promise of AI in engineering02:04 — Why AI's impact is asymmetric05:02 — Spotting the moved bottleneck07:56 — From activity to impact: visualizing flow10:19 — Driving adoption, not just output13:15 — Subordinating people and AI to the constraint15:47 — Continuous improvement and real value

Monday morning diagnostic — pick one AI initiative and ask: What outcome should it improve? Where does work wait or get reworked? If this team gets 2x faster, which group becomes the constraint — and what AI support should be redirected toward them?

"You can 10x engineering and still not 10x the business. Don't force everybody to scale - help the constraint scale."

If this helped, share it with a leader trying to turn AI activity into real business value.

00:00 The Journey from AI Activity to Impact

03:59 Understanding AI Output and Its Limitations

07:24 Achieving AI Impact Across the Organization

Dive deeper into how to shift AI from Activity to Impact

Follow Yuval on Linkedin for insights on AI adoption and impact, AI-native organizational strategy, AI bottlenecks, scaling AI intelligently, AI in engineering, and beyond.

* Recap of the “flipped pyramid” concept and its importance in POM

* Key aspects of a true product-oriented, agile organization

* The importance of treating the organizational setup itself as a product

* Preview of future episodes

I hope you’re finding this audio series useful. (If you landed here through the podcast you can subscribe to the free audio mini course here: https://yuvalyeret.com/from-buzzwords-to-clarity-product-operating-model-audio-mini-course/)

I’d love to get your feedback and help you navigate this landscape - https://yuvalyeret.com/work-with-me/figure-out-your-product-operating-model-strategy/

Interested in more of my insights on the Product world? https://yuvalyeret.com/category/blog/product/

“It’s not about reviewing deliverables. It’s about reviewing traction.”

Drawing on his coaching with product leaders, Yuval shows how product managers can shift from backlog ownership to outcome ownership, driving traction, evidence-based insights, and strategic impact.

Interested in diving deeper? Assess whether your organization is a product theater, factory, or lab

Free course: Scaling w/ Agility Crash Course

Follow Yuval on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/yuvalyeret

Scaling w/ Agility Insights: yuvalyeret.com/insights

This capability exposes a real challenge with agentic AI and explains why its shifting the bottleneck to its assymetric capabilities in different stages and domains of value creation.

00:09 The new /goal capability — what it does and how it works

02:07 What the official examples reveal: all output, no outcome

03:02 The missing examples — what outcome-oriented goals would actually look like

04:00 Output vs. outcome: why the gap matters for AI impact

04:45 The real bottleneck — observability and closing the feedback loop

05:45 Live demo: setting an outcome-oriented /goal on a blog post

08:30 What the loop did — changes made, open items, what's next

Are your AI goals output-oriented or outcome-oriented? What are you doing to enable outcome-oriented goals in your AI sessions?

And as a final thought - What would happen if your human teams were empowered to seek a /goal?

Insights on Scaling AI from Activity to Impact

Join the Activity to Impact Conversation on Linkedin

"You don't scale transformation by copying and pasting. You do it by treating it like a product—by validating its desirability and iterating."

"Empower teams with agency and context. Don't dictate rituals; align around outcomes."

"Sustainable change doesn’t come from mandates—it comes from treating transformation like an internal market."

"Focus on outcomes, not rituals. Do it because it’s useful, not because it’s prescribed."

"Real Transformation isn’t a rollout. It’s an invitation. An experiment. A conversation."

"When you force a solution that’s not ready for the mainstream, you kill its credibility."

"Ask yourself: Are you running a transformation… or just putting on a show?"

Yuval Yeret helps leaders maximize outcomes through strategic, nuanced agility. As a Product/Scaling/Agility-focused consultant, SAFe Fellow, and Professional Scrum Trainer, he guides organizations away from process theater toward true product-oriented agility. He’s helped R&D, BioTech, Marketing, and Strategic teams evolve how they work and win.

🔗 Follow Yuval on LinkedIn

Check out Yuval’s Insights on Scaling w/ Agility

In this solo episode, Yuval Yeret tackles one of the most common structural problems in product organizations: the split between product manager and product owner that creates ambiguity instead of clarity. Drawing on client patterns across hardware, software, and platform organizations, Yuval unpacks the misunderstanding at the root of this confusion — and makes the case that product ownership is an accountability, not a workload. The result is a practical framework for knowing when one role is enough, when splitting genuinely makes sense, and how to tell the difference.

• Accountability vs. workload: Product ownership means being accountable for the value the team creates — not writing every story or attending every standup. Confusing the two leads to a split that solves the wrong problem.
• The proxy problem: When someone gets the product owner title but not real decision-making authority, you've created a proxy. Proxies manage queues. Teams that work with proxies quickly learn the real decisions happen somewhere else.
• The no test: Can the person who's supposed to own your product say no to a feature request without escalating? If not, the structure isn't supporting the accountability.

"Product ownership doesn't mean doing all the inbound work yourself. It means being accountable for the value the team creates. Owning the outcome."

"When you split the role and give someone the product owner title but not the real decision-making authority — when they're essentially relaying direction from the product manager to the team — you've created a proxy. Someone who manages a queue rather than owns a product."

"Teams pick up on this pretty quickly. They learn that the real decisions happen somewhere else. So they start going around the product owner, escalating directly, or just making calls themselves and hoping it works out."

If you're not sure whether your product org is set up to make real product decisions or just manage requests, that ambiguity is worth resolving.

Experiment to try this week: Ask your product owner (or product manager) to say no to the next non-critical feature request that comes in — without checking with anyone first. Watch what happens. The reaction will tell you whether the authority matches the title.

Yuval Yeret helps leaders maximize outcomes through strategic, nuanced agility. As both a SAFe Fellow/SPCT and Professional Scrum Trainer, Yuval is frequently brought in to help organizations evolve from agile theater and feature factories toward product-oriented agility — building on existing investments rather than starting over.

📩 Start here: Scaling w/ Agility Crash Course — a free email course to help you scale without falling into the process theater trap.

🔗 Follow Yuval on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/yuvalyeret

In this episode of Scaling With Agility, Yuval explores the phenomenon of 'Agile Theater'—where organizations go through the motions of Agile practices without achieving meaningful outcomes. Yuval introduces Outcome Mapping, a tool learned from Jeff Gothelf and Josh Seiden, to identify and address these superficial practices. He explains how to recognize 'Agile Theater' behaviors such as mechanically following processes without understanding their value. Yuval discusses the importance of focusing on real outcomes rather than vanity metrics and emphasizes the need for leadership to foster autonomy and trust in teams. He advocates for mapping current behaviors, understanding their drivers, and aligning them with desired impacts to break the cycle of ineffective practices. Through real-world examples, Yuval illustrates how organizations can transition from output-focused to outcome-focused approaches to achieve true agility.

00:00 Introduction to Agile Theater

00:28 Understanding Agile Theater Behaviors

02:45 Exploring OKRs and Their Impact

05:25 The Importance of Alignment and Autonomy

06:50 Building Trust and Empowerment

10:51 Addressing Agile Theater Challenges

14:51 Creating Positive Outcomes and Flywheels

16:24 Case Study: Frequent Releases

The Scaling w/ Agility Newsletter - yuvalyeret.com/insightsYuval's Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/yuvalyeret/

In this episode of Scaling With Agility, Yuval explores how to effectively utilize OKRs (Objectives and Key Results) by applying first principles. He discusses the common pitfalls of OKRs becoming mere 'theater' in organizations and provides strategies to avoid these traps. Yuval emphasizes the importance of focusing on a small set of strategic objectives, distinguishing between working in the business and on the business, and leveraging agile methodologies like Scrum to manage complex and uncertain work. Tune in to learn how to align your organization towards meaningful goals and enhance cross-functional collaboration.

00:00 Introduction to OKRs

00:36 The Purpose and Potential of OKRs

01:32 Common Pitfalls and How to Avoid Them

03:31 Principles for Effective OKRs

03:44 Working in vs. Working on the Business

07:41 Outcome-Based OKRs and Evidence-Based Management

12:08 Cascades vs Networks - Alignment with Initiative

18:22 Cross-Functional Collaboration and OKRs

23:18 Integrating OKRs with Agile Practices

25:33 Conclusion and Key Takeaways

00:00 Introduction: Is Agile Dead?

00:40 The Future of Scrum Masters and Agile Coaches

00:59 Scrum Guide Companion for Leaders

01:15 VP Engineering as the Scrum Master?

01:29 Scrum Accountabilities vs. Roles

02:46 Market Trends and Leadership Changes

05:51 Focusing on Outcomes and Impact

07:26 Becoming a Keeper in Your Organization

09:20 The Future of Agility Accountabilities

Resources:

The Scrum Guide Companion for Leaders - https://www.scrum.org/resources/scrum-guide-companion-leaders

The Keeper Test - https://jobs.netflix.com/culture

Yuval's own journey to Scrum and his personal experience as a Scrum Leader - https://yuvalyeret.com/blog/scrum/yuvals-journey-to-scrum-expert-insights-tips/

The No BS Scaling w/ Agility Podcast - For leaders who aim to scale their organization with nuanced agility instead of the Agile Theater BS

The Scaling w/ Agility Newsletter – yuvalyeret.com/insights

Yuval's Linkedin – https://www.linkedin.com/in/yuvalyeret/

I recently joined Jonathan Stark on his podcast Ditching Hourly to discuss the current state of Agile as a platform, how it has evolved over the years, and what practitioners should consider as the platform matures.

Jonathan primarily focuses on advice for freelancers/consultants on ditching hourly billing through positioning, productized services, and pricing advice. If, like me, you're a freelancer/solopreneur agile practitioner (or are considering becoming one), I'm sure you'll find Jonathan's materials interesting. (I do.)

He recently published a series on Platform Specialization, which I thought was very relevant to the Agile space.

One very interesting part of the conversation was how to apply Jonathan's advice (e.g., the Why conversation) if you're an internal or employee agile practitioner trying to survive or thrive by moving from agile theater toward a more outcome-oriented, evidence-informed positioning.

What are YOU doing about what's recently happening in the Agile space?

In this crossover episode with the Scrum.org Community Podcast, Yuval Yeret joins Scrum.org CEO Dave West to unpack why 95% of AI initiatives fail—not because of the tech, but because of outdated organizational operating systems. Together they explore how they’ve seen product thinking and empirical agility help leaders align strategy, product, and delivery to make AI deliver business impact. Together, they explore how mid-market and scale-up leaders can evolve their “Company Operating System” to become truly AI-ready: adaptive, outcome-driven, and designed for learning.

Highlight Quotes / Concepts

* “AI isn’t failing—our operating systems are.”

* “Treat your company like a product—develop it with evidence, feedback, and intent.”

* “Empiricism isn’t just for software teams. It’s how organizations survive uncertainty.”

* “The best results come when leaders focus AI on their biggest business constraints, not shiny experiments.”

Chapters

* 00:00 Welcome

* 02:35 Challenges in AI Adoption

* 03:51 Transforming Organizational Operating Systems

* 07:28 Product Thinking in AI

* 19:06 Context Development for AI

* 45:46 Final Thoughts and Takeaways

Notable Quotes

“Where people find gold with AI is when they use product techniques to think through strategy and execution—not when they chase shiny tools.” — Yuval Yeret

“AI exposes every weakness in how your business learns.” — Dave West

“Your operating system determines whether AI is a toy or a transformation.” — Yuval Yeret

“Don’t replace humans with AI—replace bureaucracy with learning.” — Yuval Yeret

Learn More:

* Improving AI Impact using Agility-based Operating Systems

* EOS (Entrepreneurial Operating System)

* OKRs (Objectives and Key Results)

* Leveraging Evidence-Based Management to develop your company

* Improvement Kata / Toyota Design System

Is your organization’s operating system ready for AI?

Take Yuval’s free AI-Ready Operating System Scorecard and find out where your business is leaking traction—and how to fix it before your next AI initiative stalls.

👉 https://scorecard.yeretagility.com/quiz/ai-traction-scorecard

This podcast episode was recorded and published originally on the Scrum.org Community podcast: https://www.scrum.org/resources/ai-and-implications-your-organizations-operating-system.

Way too often, this upgrade doesn’t result in immediate acceleration and traction. In many cases, it feels like the organization is working FOR the new structures and ways of working, rather than the other way around.

The processes often seem too rigid and theatrical, rather than outcome-oriented.

In this crossover episode with the Scrum.org Community Podcast, Yuval Yeret joins Scrum.org CEO Dave West to unpack why adding these operating systems often slows down most companies instead of making them faster:

* The Founder’s Trap: Why the skills that get you to 30 people (and product-market fit) are the wrong skills to get you to 100.

* Functional Fiefdoms: How organizing by “departments” (Sales, Marketing, Product) optimizes for silos and guarantees systemic slowdowns.

* The “Responsible Adult” Problem: When new leaders, hired to bring order, inadvertently introduce bureaucracy that stifles the system.

* Scaling Framework “Theater”: Why so many implementations of EOS, Scaling Up, and OKRs become activity checklists—and how you’re likely serving the framework instead of it serving you.

* The Pragmatic Fix: How to break the bottleneck by organizing cross-functional teams around outcomes (like “pipeline health”) instead of org charts.

00:00 Introduction: The Paradox of Growth00:37 Scaling Challenges in Startups02:44 The Role of Responsible Adults in Scaling03:21 Why Scaling Slows Down Organizations12:18 Cross-Functional Teams and Market Segments20:29 Operating Systems for Scaling36:19 Final Thoughts and Reflections

Interested in a deeper dive?

Explore the role of operating systems and frameworks in regaining organizational traction - https://yuvalyeret.com/resources/mastering-organizational-traction-trail-map/

This podcast episode was recorded and published originally on the Scrum.org Community podcast: https://www.scrum.org/resources/scaling-smbs-without-losing-agility