REGULAR PANEL
Ron Mattiussi - Former City Manager, City of Kelowna
Cassidy deVeer - Executive Officer, Canadian Home Builders' Association Central Okanagan
Scott Lanigan - Lead Pastor, Trinity Church Kelowna

SPONSORS
Soil to Sod Landscaping: https://soiltosod.ca/
Kelowna Rockets: https://chl.ca/whl-rockets/
Jennifer Maddison, RE/MAX: https://www.jennifermaddison.ca/

Interior Health: https://www.interiorhealth.ca/
BC Housing: https://www.bchousing.org/
Kelowna International Airport (YLW): https://ylw.kelowna.ca/
Kelowna Chamber of Commerce: https://www.kelownachamber.org/

GUEST
Ron Cannan, Kelowna City Councillor and mayoral candidate (former MP for Kelowna-Lake Country)

Sponsors
Soil to Sod Landscaping: https://soiltosod.ca/
Kelowna Rockets: https://chl.ca/whl-rockets/
Jennifer Maddison, RE/MAX: https://www.jennifermaddison.ca/

municipal election promises from empty ones — what city council can and can't actually do.

LINKS
CMHC (housing videos referenced in the episode): https://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/

SPONSORS

Soil to Sod Landscaping: https://soiltosod.ca/

Kelowna Rockets: https://chl.ca/whl-rockets/

Jennifer Maddison, RE/MAX: https://www.jennifermaddison.ca/


HOST

Rick Maddison

REGULAR PANEL

Ron Mattiussi — Former City Manager, City of Kelowna

Cassidy deVeer — Executive Officer, Canadian Home Builders' Association Central Okanagan

Scott Lanigan — Lead Pastor, Trinity Church Kelowna (unable to join this episode)

Does it matter what a candidate did before city council? With roughly 80% of council votes tied to housing, how many names on this year's ballot really understand housing if pressed on the spot?

It's known that councils will spend an hour arguing over a $500 purchase, yet wave through an $84 million project without a second look. Is that a failure of oversight, or just what happens when a number gets too large to feel real anymore? What actually makes someone fit to lead. How do you measure character in a person you've only sat across from once?

Listen for more on how ForChange differs from a political slate, and why the group insists it will never tell anyone how to vote.

Host:

Rick Maddison

Regular Panel:

Ron Mattiussi — Former City Manager, City of Kelowna 


Cassidy deVeer — Interim Executive Officer, Canadian Home Builders' Association Central Okanagan

Scott Lanigan — Lead Pastor, Trinity Church Kelowna

Links:

ForChange Kelowna: https://forchangekelowna.com/

BC is Burning: https://bcisburning.ca/

Thanks to our sponsors: Soil to Sod Landscaping, Key West Mechanical, and Jennifer Maddison, RE/MAX Realtor.
Soil to Sod Landscaping: https://soiltosod.ca/

Key West Mechanical: https://keywestmechanical.ca/

Jennifer Maddison, RE/MAX: https://www.jennifermaddison.ca/


One Foot Off Center is a Kelowna-based panel show where local leaders debate the issues shaping our city. New episodes weekly.

🔔 Subscribe for more Kelowna conversations that don't play it safe.

One Foot Off Center's regular panel includes Ron Mattiussi, Cassidy deVeer, and Scott Lanigan, Lead Pastor of Trinity Church Kelowna.

Rick Maddison talks with Cassidy DeVeer (Canadian Home Builders Association) and former Kelowna CAO Ron Mattiussi about the El Dorado dispute: who actually has rights to the lakeshore, how the city has handled fights like this before, and where private property ends

and public access begins.

🎙 Hosted by Rick Maddison 🎧 Guests: Cassidy DeVeer, Ron Mattiussi, Scott Lanigan📍Kelowna, BC

"I can't support a party that, for 10 years, took the the country in one direction, and then did a 180 on almost every one of their policies that they said we needed to live and die by and then today... off we go under new leadership," Cox said.

"Chrystia Freeland couldn't balance the books to save her life, and she's still on the team. Melanie Jolie, not doing a lot. When did Israel not become an ally? When did this shift? Those people are still on the team. I think they're trying to get elected, and I think we're going to go back to exactly where we started," Cox added.

Former city manager Ron Mattiussi emphasized the importance of stable infrastructure grants to support local development, including housing.

"We got to the point now where we're so busy trying to save everything, nothing moves," he said.

"As a society, we want to build houses. We got to look back at what are some of the regulations we have in place? Why are they there? What are they protecting? Is that more important than housing? I think it's time."

Trinity pastor Scott Lanigan agrees there is a need for practical solutions to bureaucratic challenges.

"I think each party offers an element of a solution that actually can make a difference. I appreciate Ron saying, you know, I'm liberal, but there's been some things I didn't like and some things I did like and to me, that's the type of perspective that's going to get us to a better country and more prosperous in the years to come."

The entire panel agrees the largest threat Canada is facing is coming from the south of the border as a result of President Trump's erratic tariff policies.

Mattiussi believes Conservative Party leader Pierre Poilievre is running the wrong type of election campaign to get elected.

"I think he's following a playbook that doesn't matter anymore. Let's face it, Justin Trudeau had lots of ways you could attack him. [Poilievre] never shifted to the role of a leader. He never shifted away from the fight, and now it's hurting them, because [the Liberals] they've taken away some bullets that he had."

"I think if he is a nice guy, he should act like it," says Mattiussi.

The conversation also touched on the importance of small businesses and the role of educational institutions in regional prosperity.

One Foot Off Center will be published monthly by Castanet on YouTube with an audio-only version on Spotify.

The CEO of Simply Benefits, Jeff Cox says he was not impressed by the premier's decision not to attend the recent premiers meeting with new Prime Minister Mark Carney.

"Every premier in Canada in a room with a new prime minister to talk about how we're going to move this country forward, and you didn't show up? It doesn't make sense. I don't get it.

"I just feel he's very disconnected to what's going on," says Cox.

Former Kelowna city manager Ron Mattiussi agreed with Cox.

"I think you got to be in the room. I think this is a pretty critical time. He wasn't there so they voted to have a pipeline through B.C. Call me crazy, but this is a pretty significant moment in our national history," says Mattiussi.

Lead pastor at Trinity Church, Scott Lanigan didn't like the move either.

"You have a seat at the table and you don't take it. To me it's obnoxious. Everybody knows it's the meeting after the meeting and you didn't show up," Lanigan says.

From there the group pivoted to talk about healthcare in the province and Mattiussi pointed out that politicians across the country have been well aware that people born between 1946 and 1964, boomers, the largest Canadian generation were going to be a challenge for the healthcare industry.

"It's also at a critical time, demographically, to try to deal with this problem. I mean, they knew in 1995 that this crunch was coming," Mattiussi says.

Regarding the recent challenges at KGH Cox says, "I just think you get to a stage where there has to be change."

Since the podcast was recorded Susan Brown the CEO of Interior Health has announced that she is stepping down.

Cox brought up the size of the geographical area covered by IH as a challenge for any administrator but also noted that in his opinion there are three administrators for every frontline worker.

"This is not frontline workers. We have three administrators to every one frontline worker," Cox says.

"Is it a function of the size of the organization that the left hand really doesn't know what the right hand is doing," Mattiussi says.

Maddison worries that the province is resting on its laurels, "we're beautiful, we have mountains... we're more expensive, and houses cost way more, and our food is more expensive.

"But we're starting to see that, that reverse migration, where people from Alberta, and Ontario especially, were coming here in droves, and now it just feels like the reverse is true, where people are like, 'I want to enjoy more of life, and I don't want to just work for my house.' I think house poor is a real thing," says Maddison.

Mattiussi expressed concerns that Kelowna in particular could become like Costa Rica, "rich people can always afford to live here."

But at the other end of the strata, says Mattiussi, what if there are only service provider jobs available in the Okanagan.

"I worry about that discrepancy," says Mattiussi.

One Foot Off Center is hosted by Rick Maddison and Jeff Cox, featuring Scott Lanigan, lead pastor of Trinity Church and Ron Mattiussi, former Kelowna city manager.

One Foot Off Center will be published monthly by Castanet, on YouTube and in an audio-only version on Spotify.

Scott Lanigan and Jeff Cox analyze Rustad's leadership failures, emphasizing the need for self-awareness and authenticity in leadership.

"If I'm a leader, and I'm only getting 70 per cent of the people that I lead to go, yeah, I want to follow that guy. There's a problem, and you have to do something. You have to change it," Lanigan says.

Cox agreed it was time for a change at the top of the party.

"This government could be blown over by my two-year-old, in all honesty. I mean, it is ugly. So it's time. When polling says that there is no official opposition, it's time to find a leader, and it's time to widen that tent," says Cox.

Time for a new approach?

The panel also criticized the BC Conservative Party's strategy, suggesting it is time for a more centrist approach to provincial politics.

"I think, as a leader, if no one's following you... I think there was enough discontent. I remember Christy Clark said, when she was premier, 'when you're a leader in provincial politics, your biggest worry isn't who's in front of you, it's what's coming from behind," says Mattiussi.

The panel agreed that if the party wants to move forward they should take a page out of Mark Carney's book and hog the middle and lean to the right.

One Foot Off Center host Rick Maddison then shifted the conversation to drug addiction issues.

"There's a vending machine in Rutland. A lot of us didn't know of its existence. Drug paraphernalia is apparently in this vending machine, so it has crack pipes and straws," Maddison says.

Some have asked why so many of these efforts seem to wind up in the Rutland area of Kelowna.

Mattiussi disagreed with that assessment.

"I don't think that's true. We did the one by the former McDonald's site, which nobody even knows is there, because it's sort of under the radar.

"We basically plotted everyone (harm reduction) in the city, it was a bit like a shotgun blast out of the centre. They're pretty evenly distributed. Maybe they're where the people that are using them are?"

Harm reduction under microscope

Mattiussi says he was working with council when safe injection sites and vending machines first came to Kelowna and while he says he understood the need at the time, he was always disappointed by Interior Health's follow through.

"I thought it was really important to hand out syringes so people aren't becoming infected. The biggest problem I had is that they (Interior Health) could seem to care less about what happened to them after and then that became our problem, and it was a huge problem," Mattiussi says.

Jeff Cox talks about how heartbreaking it is to look at some of the homeless issues on the streets of Kelowna, "it's sad to walk in here today. It's sad to walk into my office every day... and see it bothers me when I walk by. Cox pointed to the policies started by former mayor Colin Basran."

"Colin was notorious for talking about the Portugal model. The core component to the Portugal model is pretty much, yes, we will help you, but you have a choice, get sober and stay sober, and if that fails, you're going to jail.

"The Portugal model works. We just left the biggest part of the Portugal model out, and that's actually getting people sober," Cox says.

Despite several start-ups in recent weeks, the Okanagan has been spared from the worst of this year's wildfire season.

The panel discusses whether or not the province should be putting the money saved from this year's firefighting season into mitigation efforts.

Maddison shares his frustration with Woodhaven Nature Conservancy Park, where he says he has asked various levels of government for help in mitigating the fire risk of dead trees in the park.

The other topic discussed deals with how budgets are allocated year over year.

"If a city department doesn’t use its budget one year (snow removal for instance) do you lose the budget for next year or is there any kind of incentive for city employees to look for cost-savings? To the outlier, it appears like, 'you better spend it or you lose it,'" Maddison says.

Castanet is proud to present One Foot Off Center, a podcast tackling the big issues facing the Okanagan.

Rick Maddison, Ron Mattiussi, Scott Lanigan and Jeff Cox will meet every month to discuss how those issues impact everyday Canadians.

Maddison is a well-known entrepreneur in Kelowna and owner of Tempest Media. Mattiussi is the former chief administrator of the City of Kelowna and has worked in local government across the province.

Lanigan is the lead pastor of Trinity Church, one of Kelowna’s largest churches, who has served with various community groups like Journey Home.

Cox is the founder and CEO of Kelowna-based Simply Benefits.

One Foot Off Center will be published monthly by Castanet, on ⁠YouTube⁠ and in an audio-only version on Spotify.

The discussion touched on everything from street safety and housing to the urgent need for a more robust local economy.

Scott Lanigan pointed a recent list that ranked Kelowna the 122nd most desirable place to live in the world.

"What lowered our rate of desirability was safety, and that was one of the biggest factors," Lanigan said, adding that the city needs to find a "more human, relatable focus" to help those caught in the cycle of homelessness.

Cassidy deVeer pointed to the economic divide between the wealthy and regular folk in the Okanagan.

"We're a city of haves and have-nots," deVeer said. "We need to have a lot more high-paying jobs in this community if we're going to get people moving here to live and work and raise a family here."

Host Rick Maddison suggested that while technology like CCTV might help with safety, the root of the issue is often financial. "The jobs would fundamentally solve a whole bunch of problems," Maddison said, discussing the potential for 24-hour monitoring to change the "face of safety" in troubled areas.

Former Kelowna city manager Ron Mattiussi argued that enforcement and surveillance only go so far without provincial support for mental health. "People need to be treated, until our government, in fact, deals with that, and we could hire all the police we want and all the bylaw officers, because they can't do anything."

Despite the hurdles, the panel agreed that Kelowna is not going to stop attracting people anytime soon, with Mattiussi noting that "people still find this a desirable place to live."

One Foot Off Center will be published monthly by Castanet, on YouTube and in an audio-only version on Spotify.

Maddison says the leadership review appears to be taking a very long time.

"I think what we saw was an election that was supposed to go one way. It went another way, and now we're looking at a review. We've had a couple of ridings turn... now we're left with the question, how is John Rustad, how are the BC Conservatives doing in this province?"

Cox says, "I would give John Rustad eight out of 10. He took a party from nothing to something and almost won an election."

"But if we are going to turn this province, which I'm telling you, if it does not happen soon, it is not going to end well, John's got to step aside, and they've got to put somebody that's more mainstream in there, and they've got to get ahead of it and vet candidates and start building a real party," Cox continued.

Mattiussi agreed with Cox's assessment.

"I agree with the idea that they can't win the way they are within this province," he said.

"It's got to be built from the centre, somebody that can speak to the centre with those principles, that could attract both centrist liberals and progressive conservatives and conservatives. It's a big tent, and it has to be bigger to win in this province."

Lanigan says B.C.'s political parties have to do a better job of explaining themselves to voters.

"I think that is actually the Achilles heel of our provincial political groups, and I think they need to spend some time clarifying who they are and what they're about and being crystal clear, especially for the younger generation."

But the panel agrees, it is a difficult challenge to unite diverse political views under one tent.

One Foot Off Center will be published monthly by Castanet, on YouTube and in an audio-only version on Spotify.

Ron Mattiussi, former Kelowna CAO, says the ALR policies should be revisited, noting most of the policies were created and implemented in the 1970s.

"I'm not arguing the principle of preserving agricultural land, but do we? Are we doing it? Are we doing it well? Is it the right land? Is it in the right place? I think it's about time somebody started asking real questions," says Mattiussi.

Jeff Cox says he agrees with the concept of ALR but also wonders if we are doing it the right way.

"There are rules that exist around the ALR today that make no sense to me," says Cox.

Scott Lanigan and Mattiussi discussed the impact of fire management, noting the success of FireSmart programs in mitigating wildfires around urban areas. They also touch on the need for a collaborative approach involving municipal, provincial, and federal levels of government to address these issues effectively.

"Years ago... they used to be much more creative in using and empowering forestry crews and those types of things," says Lanigan.

Mattiussi says he doesn't believe that Canada and B.C has done enough fire suppression work, pointing to past Indigenous practices that managed to keep wildfire damage to a manageable level.

"I'm not a climate denier at all. Climate change is real, but there's such an attachment between, the climate is changing and we're burning down. Well, 300 years ago, Indigenous groups in this valley actually did fire suppression, so this is not new. They cleaned the forests around the areas that they were inhabiting," says Mattiussi.

Castanet is proud to present One Foot Off Center, a podcast tackling the big issues facing the Okanagan.

Rick Maddison, Ron Mattiussi, Scott Lanigan and Jeff Cox will meet every month to discuss how those issues impact everyday Canadians.

Maddison is a well-known entrepreneur in Kelowna and owner of Tempest Media. Mattiussi is the former chief administrator of the City of Kelowna and has worked in local government across the province.

Lanigan is the lead pastor of Trinity Church, one of Kelowna’s largest churches, who has served with various community groups like Journey Home.

Cox is the founder and CEO of Kelowna-based Simply Benefits.

--

One Foot Off Center will be published monthly by Castanet, on YouTube and in an audio-only version on Spotify.

With provincial and municipal government policy encouraging development of rentals, some see the rising vacancy rate as a sign that housing pressures are easing. At the same time, vacancies at that level traditionally discourage developers from entering a market.

Kelowna's vacancy was previously as low as 0.6%, which saw rents soar.

"There’s a downside to 6.4 per cent," said deVeer.

"What I find so interesting is that nobody's put together the high rate (8.6%) of unemployment right now. It's wonderful vacancies are high... but unemployment is also high. So what does that mean? It means people have left our city to go find work elsewhere."

Local construction companies have felt the impact directly, with one firm shrinking from 18 employees to just two, and award-winning renovators now working solo jobs just to stay afloat, according to deVeer.

"I don't really call that lucky for a lot of people."

Part of the issue, according to Mattiussi, is that the market is currently "off equilibrium."

"I think getting up [to this rate] was a perfect storm... nobody builds multifamily. You make the commitment many years before you pour the concrete," Mattiussi says. "I think on one hand, we're overbuilt in the condo market... The best thing it does is it brings rents down... but is that a healthy way to bring rents down? No, I don't think so."

The discussion also highlighted the skyrocketing cost of delivery as a major barrier to new housing. deVeer points to what she calls B.C.’s aggressive building codes, which exceed national standards, as a key driver of costs.

"Our homes are highly over-engineered," says deVeer. "If we're going to change anything, we have to address the cost to build because labour rates aren't going down... We tax housing like we do alcohol and cigarettes, which is crazy."

While development cost charges (DCCs) remained a contentious topic, Mattiussi argued they are necessary to prevent taxpayers from footing the bill for new growth, though he admitted there needs to be a balance.

"Without DCCs in place, I've watched developers go bankrupt in the 90s," Mattiussi says. "When you look at the city of Kelowna, it has some of the highest rates in BC, and yet the lowest rates of property tax."
One Foot Off Center will be published monthly by Castanet, on YouTube and in an audio-only version on Spotify.

Scott Lanigan, says his church does hundreds of weddings every year, and the Airbnb rule changes had a dramatic effect on Kelowna as a destination wedding location.

"With all the people coming here, trying to find a place to stay, is so difficult, especially in the hot seasons of June, July and August," Lanigan says.

Jeff Cox points out that Kelowna has been a tourist destination for many years, and the lack of places for tourists to stay over the past several years has had a serious impact.

"We don't have Airbnb, we don't have a plethora of great hotel options. We don't have any real family orientated hotel options. The motor ins of the city have gone by the wayside. It's just so Canadian for us to take away all the places to stay and then ban Airbnb. How did we get here?" says Cox.

Cox points out the irony that some buildings in Kelowna were built with Airbnb in mind.

"We have buildings that were built for Airbnb, and we've not let them continue to operate, the Shore across from the El Dorado, Playa del Sol. I'd start there, and then you've got to move at a conservative pace to say, we are going to allow it in other areas," Cox says.

Former City of Kelowna chief administrative officer, Ron Mattiussi points out that short-term rentals put pressure on people who live in Kelowna all year round. The other was where the city allowed some Airbnbs to operate.

"I remember getting many calls, because the building next door is being rented. And they said, Look, 'I have to get up in the morning. I have kids, and I have to put up with Calgarians partying in the hot tub till three in the morning every night, golfing and then partying.'

"When you get into the single-family neighbourhoods, I get a little concerned," Mattiussi says.

The panel agreed that there is probably a way to zone Airbnbs so they wouldn't impact the long-term rental market.
"I think it's really important that people know the rules. If I make a big investment in my home, I want to have some surety that it doesn't become a commercial hotel next to me," Mattiussi says.

From there, the panel transitioned into talking about their personal grades for Premier David Eby and the provincial NDP government.

Mattiussi gave him a B for effort, "he seems to act very unilaterally on most things that he deals with, not necessarily, it seems, in consultation with the ministers or people affected. That would be my biggest criticism, not so much the pieces of what he's doing, but how he's doing it."

Lanigan says he feels policy is only successful when people can point to a real change in their lives, not just a headline. He gives Eby a B-.

"You've talked about decriminalization, you've talked about these things, but what's the change for me? How's my Tuesday look different? And I think for so long, my Tuesdays looked exactly the same or worse on a number of fronts, and at what point does the frustration just boil over," says Lanigan.

Cox gives Eby a failing grade.

"David Eby is failing on every front right now. I'm sure Eby has the best intentions when he gets up in the morning. I don't think he's a bad human being. Healthcare is failing because of bureaucracy. Housing is failing, listen, we could do 10 podcast shows on decriminalization. It's never his fault," Cox says.

Lanigan worries about how the next generation will view the political process.

"What are we telling the next generation if we can't be grown-ups and just talk. Unity does not mean uniformity. It just means unity. It means I can have a differing opinion, but I can be a human being, and we can actually go towards a greater goal together, rather than trying to tear each other apart," says Lanigan.

Rick Maddison asks the panel, "if it's such a good deal. Why didn't another developer buy it? Why would the city wade into those waters?"

Mattiussi explains that the property has been vacant for years, and it has been rezoned several times as well.

"I think the city is, in this particular case, taking a risk," he said.

"Whether you're the city or not, and you enter the real estate market, you are taking a risk. But I think the risk is about controlling what actually gets built."

Mattiussi says in terms of locations in Kelowna, they don't get much more prominent. "I guess, the million-dollar question is, how aggressive should the city be entering the real estate market, and for what purpose?"

Cox says he understands what the city is trying to do.

"I would argue that if you've got an issue with this, then you've definitely got an issue with the new Parkinson Recreation Centre and the way that was done.

"You don't want to take a loss on it, but it's land in Kelowna. I don't think that's the case," says Cox.

Lanigan waded into the fray, saying, "I think they're not buying land, they're (the City of Kelowna) is trying to buy trust.

"We have a vision and a passion for what this could be. It's a prime piece of property. It's got waterfront, it's got the marina... but we want this to be a legacy move that has a long-term impact, because it needs to belong to the City of Kelowna. It needs to belong to the people, and it needs to be something we're proud of and proud to have as part of that," says Lanigan.

The conversation then shifted to the City of Kelowna spending $100,000 a month on security costs for the rail trail homeless encampment.

Lanigan says he believes the city knew what would happen when they made the move, "now we're hearing it across our city, these folks, unfortunately, are just spread out, you know, from Springfield to downtown."

Lanigan says he feels it's time for the province and the city to stop using band-aids and make a meaningful change.

"Day after day, the noise just becomes numbing when it comes to our homeless community, because when people don't see things moving along, and then we're just putting money after money after money, it just, actually hurts your heart," Lanigan says.

Involuntary care

From there, the discussion pivoted to the topic of involuntary care in British Columbia.

Mattiussi says, "I think there's a segment of our community that needs treatment, and they're not going to seek it on their own. I don't think a civil society lets people die in the cold on the streets. I think that every dollar we spend out there is a Band-Aid."

Cox says, "putting someone into involuntary or compassionate mandatory care makes a lot more sense to me than when I walk by them and they're curled up in a sleeping bag.

"Some people are just bad, and they should go to jail, and some people have remorse and should be rehabilitated and back on the street," Cox says.

"If you have Alzheimer's, at some point, don't you have compassionate, mandatory care? If you wander out, they put you back in and make sure you don't wander out again," says Mattiussi.

One Foot Off Center will be published monthly by Castanet, on YouTube and in an audio-only version on Spotify.

Rick and Jeff dive into a variety of topics ranging from the terrible timing of the PSAC strike to Justin Trudeaus fancy taxpayer-paid vacation at a high-priced resort that happens to be a donor to the Trudeau Foundation (of which he says he has no involvement) to LNG in Canada, and the Ethics Commissioner resigning.

Maddison says there seems to be a run of developments approved in the city that do not have enough on-site parking.

"This of course is due to their proximity to transit. However, driving through this city you can almost tell you which developments don’t have available parking because the streets are jammed with vehicles," says Maddison

Mattiussi suggested that these developments are "borne out of Vancouver and Victoria where density and transit meet the needs of many."

Cox asked if Kelowna should be striving to hit housing target numbers "no matter the cost."

"Are we beholden to the province to follow this initiative?" he said. "Should we build out transit first, then do away with parking close to transit centres?"

Castanet is proud to present One Foot Off Center, a podcast tackling the big issues facing the Okanagan.

Rick Maddison, Ron Mattiussi, Scott Lanigan and Jeff Cox will meet every month to discuss how those issues impact everyday Canadians.

Maddison is a well-known entrepreneur in Kelowna and owner of Tempest Media. Mattiussi is the former chief administrator of the City of Kelowna and has worked in local government across the province.

Lanigan is the lead pastor of Trinity Church, one of Kelowna’s largest churches, who has served with various community groups like Journey Home.

Cox is the founder and CEO of Kelowna-based Simply Benefits.
One Foot Off Center will be published monthly by Castanet, on YouTube and in an audio-only version on Spotify.

Lanigan emphasized the need for viable alternatives for the individuals that will be forced out of the camp each morning.

"Where are these individuals going to go? It's fine to say, hey, we don't like tent city or any city, no matter what jurisdiction you're in, but here in Kelowna, there has to be a viable alternative," he said.

"Unfortunately, in Kelowna, we don't have a viable alternative for these individuals."

"Even yesterday, we were walking downtown as a family, and we saw an increase in, the homeless community and I'm like, well, this is directly correlated to what happened just a few days ago," Lanigan continued.

Lanigan sat on the board of directors for the now-dissolved Journey Home initiative and he is sympathetic to Kelowna's unhoused population.

Jeff Cox highlighted the complexities of homelessness, including mental health issues and drug abuse, and called for a shift from wet houses, which allow drug use, to detox facilities.

Ron Mattiussi, former city manager, says he watched as the homeless population in Kelowna just kept rising while he was at city hall.

"In my time as city manager, over a five-year period, statistics were, bylaw enforcement broke up, one year, 25 camps. Next year, 75 by the time I stopped counting, it was up to 300, 400," Mattiussi said.

He said the city tried to take a firmer stance on homelessness and prevent camping on sidewalks.

"Other governments have the money to deal with it. We take property taxes. We just didn't think that we should be using that money to deal with a problem that comes from everywhere."

Mattiussi says during his time as city manager he felt he was constantly dealing with the repercussions of failed policy.

"I think governments are getting to the point where we're going to have to say having people sleep on the streets in winter is not what a just society, what a fair society does. But there's an element on our streets that are not going to be housed in conventional housing or conventional type homes."

The rest of the conversation underscored the need for comprehensive, data-informed solutions to address the root causes of homelessness and the community's response to it.

Castanet is proud to present One Foot Off Center, a podcast tackling the big issues facing the Okanagan.

Rick Maddison, Ron Mattiussi, Scott Lanigan and Jeff Cox will meet every month to discuss how those issues impact everyday Canadians.

Maddison is a well-known entrepreneur in Kelowna and owner of Tempest Media. Mattiussi is the former chief administrator of the City of Kelowna and has worked in local government across the province.

Lanigan is the lead pastor of Trinity Church, one of Kelowna’s largest churches, who has served with various community groups like Journey Home.

Cox is the founder and CEO of Kelowna-based Simply Benefits.
One Foot Off Center will be published monthly by Castanet, on YouTube and in an audio-only version on Spotify.

Former Kelowna CAO Ron Mattiussi believes the best way to get more BC Transit routes is to have enough people in an area using the service.

"I think in this particular case, they're pretty much forced to have the density to prove out the need for the transit," says Mattiussi.

Jeff Cox highlighted the need for better infrastructure, citing Kelowna's poor road connectivity.

"For people who travel for business or personal outside of this city, you do recognize that this is probably one of the worst infrastructure cities that I know of. We've created, no central corridors in and out of the south Mission," says Cox.

The panellists talked about a better way to go from the Kelowna International Airport to the Mission area of Kelowna.

"There needs to be some foresight. But I don't know that that falls on the city," Cox says.

Mattiussi points to the way the City of Kelowna developed, "for the longest time, this was a little farm town. Go to the Mission. There's no grid, little cul de sacs, and all these people are emptying out into one road.

"In fairness, you look at our history, what wasn't done, because nobody back then had the vision to see what the city could actually be, and that's where you should have been, you know, building some of that infrastructure."

Trinity Church's lead pastor, Scott Lanigan also pointed out that the living wage in Kelowna is around $54,000 and that most people living on that wage need to use public transit.

"That's for the basics, nothing exceptional. That's just, paying your rent and food, and it's for helping with transportation. So it's transit, not a car, because that doesn't cover a car." Lanigan also questioned how much influence Kelowna's municipal government has over transit issues.

"I think, in a perfect world, if you wanted to create transit density, just do it as part of your official Community Plan, and do it as part of an overall plan. Do it as you plan the infrastructure," says Mattiussi.

The former chief administrator for the City of Kelowna called for a wide variety of housing types, "and then, let's be efficient. Infrastructure is really expensive, if we're gonna put it in the ground, let's make sure we get as much density as we can," Mattiussi says.

Castanet is proud to present One Foot Off Center, a podcast tackling the big issues facing the Okanagan.

Rick Maddison, Ron Mattiussi, Scott Lanigan and Jeff Cox will meet every month to discuss how those issues impact everyday Canadians.

Maddison is a well-known entrepreneur in Kelowna and owner of Tempest Media. Mattiussi is the former chief administrator of the City of Kelowna and has worked in local government across the province.

Lanigan is the lead pastor of Trinity Church, one of Kelowna’s largest churches, who has served with various community groups like Journey Home.

Cox is the founder and CEO of Kelowna-based Simply Benefits.
One Foot Off Center will be published monthly by Castanet, on YouTube and in an audio-only version on Spotify.

Rick Maddison, Ron Mattiussi, Scott Lanigan and Jeff Cox will meet every month to discuss how those issues impact everyday Canadians.

Maddison is a well-known entrepreneur in Kelowna and owner of Tempest Media. Mattiussi is the former chief administrator of the City of Kelowna and has worked in local government across the province.

Lanigan is the lead pastor of Trinity Church, one of Kelowna’s largest churches, who has served with various community groups like Journey Home.

Cox is the founder and CEO of Kelowna-based Simply Benefits.

For the first episode, the panel discusses housing affordability and development.

One Foot Off Center will be published monthly by Castanet, on YouTube and in an audio-only version on Spotify.

Specifically, the City park dog run, which had an original, approved budget of $750,000 with an additional $150,000 placed in reserve from a previous project. On Monday, August 25, 2025, council received a request for an additional $450,000 for the dog run.

Maddison says, "the initial cost was a $750K and now it's grown to $1.2 million, and it's spectacular... I wonder if the dogs recognize how nice it is."

Lanigan says, "it's phenomenal, is it $1.2 million phenomenal, or is it that's a little ridiculous, phenomenal.

"I'm all for creating accessible opportunities for individuals who can't go to normal spaces. But at what point does it become a little ridiculous?"

Cox says, "it does seem excessive, considering that you can probably buy my house for the same amount of money."
Mattiussi agrees that the final price tag does seem excessive.

"But there's all kinds of people lobbying for all kinds of things, and you're always balancing. What one person says is a horrible thing. And just having a dog park... some people would judge why we'd be spending money on that at all. Other people are saying that the ones you have are crappy.

"I don't know what's going on with this dog park. It does seem excessive," says Mattiussi.

The conversation also touched on development cost charges (DCCs) and the need to revisit these fees to ensure affordability and fairness, particularly for smaller homes.
One Foot Off Center will be published monthly by Castanet, on YouTube and in an audio-only version on Spotify.

Jeff Cox emphasized the importance of addressing the concerns of conservative voters.

"To me, it was proof that democracy is alive in Canada. You know, votes were up significantly. We're not hindered by conspiracy theories on recounts and things of that nature, at least not in the mainstream," says Cox.

"My message, not that it matters to the Liberals. As a generalization, 41 or 42 per cent of the country voted the other way... It's not been since Brian Mulroney that we've seen vote counts that high."

Scott Lanigan noted the unique outcome with party leaders losing their seats and the influence of social media on younger voters.

"I think rhetoric got lost in reality at some point, especially for the Conservatives, they just kept going on the same pathway, and obviously it didn't resonate," Lanigan says.

Former Kelowna CAO Ron Mattiussi says he doesn't believe the NDP are done as a party.

"They'll come back like everybody's come back before. I personally believe... Mark Carney at this time and place was the right person. I also believe that he'll govern like a, red Tory. I think there's nothing in his background that would tell me he's going to be Jagmeet Singh, I just believe that."

Mattiussi also hopes Carney finds a way to address the West, not just Alberta's concerns.

"Alberta speaks a lot, but, you know, (Carney needs to deal with) the West and some of the issues around that."

The panel also discussed the impact of densification in Kelowna, and the need for balanced transportation solutions.

Castanet is proud to present One Foot Off Center, a podcast tackling the big issues facing the Okanagan.

Rick Maddison, Ron Mattiussi, Scott Lanigan and Jeff Cox will meet every month to discuss how those issues impact everyday Canadians.

Maddison is a well-known entrepreneur in Kelowna and owner of Tempest Media. Mattiussi is the former chief administrator of the City of Kelowna and has worked in local government across the province.

Lanigan is the lead pastor of Trinity Church, one of Kelowna’s largest churches, who has served with various community groups like Journey Home.

Cox is the founder and CEO of Kelowna-based Simply Benefits.
One Foot Off Center will be published monthly by Castanet, on YouTube and in an audio-only version on Spotify.

One Foot Off Center will be published monthly by Castanet, on YouTube and in an audio-only version on Spotify.