Ministry Without Hating It

#38: Renegades, Not Rebels | Reframing Your Questions with Ministry Pain feat. BrianJames McMahon

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Tue, 17 Dec 2024 18:00:00 GMT

At its core, experiencing pain simply means that something is off. And oftentimes, we think pain is bad. And sometimes it is. And sometimes it can be really useful. In our Season 3 Finale, therapist and pastor, BrianJames McMahon, unpacks for us how being honest and lamenting his own pain changed everything for him–including stepping out of vocational ministry. It’s possible to not fear pain, wrestle with lament, and bravely face the possibility of leaving a ministry, with hope–and without hating it.

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

Church Well Co Website
BrianJames Therapy Website
Connect further with Brian James at Instagram: @brianjamesmcmahon @church_well_co

Guest Bio:
BrianJames McMahon is a pastor, counselor, and founder of both Church Well Co, and BrianJames Therapy. He works with pastors, churches, and communities to develop safe(r) relational and emotional spaces for healing and connection.

BrianJames cares deeply that the Church of Jesus embodies the person of Jesus with beauty, bravery, and connection.Never one to shy away from messiness and pain, he has committed his life to helping leaders honestly face the pain present in their lives and callings and to walk into the fullness of the life Jesus has for them in honesty, openness, and bravery.

Episode Credits:
Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams
Produced by Chad Garrison

Connect With Ministry w/o Hating It:
Our LinkTree | Support MWH @ Buy Me A Coffee
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#12: Confessions of a Pastor's Kid | Navigating & Growing in Your Ministry at Home w/ PK Roundtable

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Fri, 13 Jan 2023 14:00:00 GMT

Ministry is tough, but it can be even tougher on the ministry leader's kids. In our Season Two Premiere, we sit down for a candid conversation with three PK's (Pastor's Kids), two of them adults, one still a "kid", and unpack the highs, lows and burdens the children of ministry leaders experience that most people aren't aware of.

Guest Bios:
Jeniffer Burch graduated from Capri Cosmetology College in 1999 with a degree in Cosmetology Arts and Sciences, she was a Master Stylist and a Color Specialist. Jen has been the Hospitality Coordinator since 2010. Also has served in NextGen Ministries since 1998. For the past two years she has been the Church Administrator at Springs of Life. She has been married to Brian Burch since 2001, they have three wonderful children together.

Jeniffer has a passion for people to see and use their God given gifts, talents and use them for His glory. She has a deep understanding of how we need the whole body of Christ to come together to serve the church and the community.

TJ Burget currently resides in Rochester, MN serving as the worship and youth director of Word of Grace Church. TJ is married to Amanda, and has 41 years of being a pastor kid where he has developed a heart for kids whose parents are involved in some type of ministry. Between his time as a husband, pastor and being out on the golf course, TJ runs a non-profit organization that helps facilitate the building of schools in third world countries. He has a passion to see young adults, teenagers, and kids become everything that God has created and designed them to be.

Addi Garrison is 13 years old, is daughter of Pastors Chad & Lindsay, loves Jesus, creative arts, serving kids ministry, and lives in Cedar Rapids, IA.

#44: There’s Grace For That | Formation Over Ministry Assignment feat. Sal & Krystal Bono

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Sun, 15 Jun 2025 05:00:00 GMT

Have you ever said, “I am going to make this work, or die trying”? According to Pastors Sal & Krystal Bono, that’s probably the worst thing you can say within ministry. In this episode, the Bonos get candid about the pain from messy transitions, the death of a ministry dream and even being houseless for a season. But through all of these humbling experiences, Sal & Krystal also share the hope they have found to keep going by realizing, “there’s grace for that.”

Also, the episode’s final score is Sal 1 - Krystal 1000.

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

To connect further with Sal & Krystal at gracechrch.com

Guest Bio:

Sal and Krystal Bono have been married for 22 years and have four daughters. They live in Federal Way, WA where they serve together as Co-Lead Pastors at Grace Church. With over 20 years in ministry together, Sal and Krystal have faithfully served the Church in a variety of roles—including church planters, urban missionaries, creative pastors, worship leaders, discipleship directors, and youth pastors. Their passion for the local church is matched by a heart for creative entrepreneurship, using innovative tools and storytelling to build up people and communities for the glory of God.

Episode Credits:

Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams

Produced by Chad Garrison

#25: The Steward Leader | Stewarding the Me HE's Given Me to Be feat. Gary Dunahoo

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Mon, 15 Jan 2024 21:00:00 GMT

New Year, New Vision--or is it? Executive Coach and Pastor, Gary Dunahoo, kicks off Season 3 by positing the question, "What if we could be more present today, trusting that God is going to lead us forward tomorrow?" Through his own experiences and learned wisdom, Gary unpacks practically, what it means to be a leader who stewards all they've been given today, and following where God is leading next.

Guest Bio:
Gary Dunahoo is an impassioned believer in the ability to advance human potential in both business and everyday life. A highly skilled and engaging coach, program leader, and human development professional who has run a successful executive development firm for nearly a decade, following 38+ years as a pastor, educator, and personal development professional. A noted concentration in helping women reach top corporate leadership positions, with experience helping community members create and build nonprofit enterprises for the public good. A recent recipient of a Ph.D. in Human Development.

Connect further with Gary at https://www.garydunahoo.com

Episode Credits:
Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams
Produced by Chad Garrison

#54: Always Another Side to the Story | Positivity & Perspective in Kid’s Min w/ Lesli Klingenmeier

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Sun, 15 Feb 2026 06:00:00 GMT

In this episode, we sit down with the ever-positive Pastor Lesli Klingenmeier! Through the lens of her decades in Children’s Ministry, and as a denominational leader, Lesli shares wisdom on the value of bi-vocational ministry, the changing landscape of Kids Ministry and the importance of always sharing stories. Lesli believes that when navigating through the challenges of ministry, the path to greater positivity is as simple as shifting our focus to what could be, over what is.

Lesli also gets BONUS points for incorporating her own pastoral alliteration in the interview. Let’s fire it up!

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

Connect further with Lesli Here
Info on the Cornerstone Project

Guest Bio:

Lesli often jokes that she’s a bit of a poster child for the Foursquare Church. Her grandparents were part of the founding families of the Amherst Foursquare Church in Ohio, and Lesli grew up through the church attending kids camp, youth camps, and whatever Foursquare event she could find.

She first sensed a call to ministry as a teenager, especially through her experiences at summer camps. But after some loving encouragement from her parents to get a “real career,” Lesli went to college, earning a bachelor’s degree in Psychology and a master’s degree in Occupational Therapy. She worked as an occupational therapist for five years before God made it clear it was time to step away from a stable career and follow His lead into full-time ministry. Making that decision at 28 was both terrifying and freeing.

Her first ministry role was part-time as a Children’s Pastor at her home church, where she ended up serving for 12 years and watching God do incredible things in both the church and the community. From there, Lesli served for 10 years as the NextGen Coordinator for the Northeast Atlantic District, working with and training leaders across 15 states as well as coordinating youth and kids camps and young adult retreats.

Since 2020, Lesli has returned to local church ministry at GrowPoint Church in Amherst. She describes herself as a “utility pastor,” helping wherever needed, with a primary focus on leading Kids Ministry and Women’s Ministry, two areas she deeply loves. Lesli also serves as a Lead Coach for the national Foursquare Cornerstone Project where she coaches NextGen leaders across the U.S. in leading their churches to deepen their focus on family discipleship.

At the heart of everything Lesli does is a passion to see people of all ages grow in their love for Jesus and become thriving followers of Christ for a lifetime. Lesli's favorite season of the year is summer and loves anything summer-related, especially golf, and can usually be found on the course every Friday playing in a local women’s league.

Episode Credits:

Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams

Produced by Chad Garrison

#1: Fine is a Four-letter Word | Bearing the Fruit of Joy in Ministry feat. Brenton Hill

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Tue, 31 May 2022 20:00:00 GMT

If we seek to LOVE the ministry we lead for the long haul, we'd better get real in bearing the fruit of JOY.

For our very first episode, we wanted to "set the table" for what's to come, but start off by interviewing show producer and pastor, Brenton Hill, on the subject of keeping Joy within our ministry. Through this candid conversation, you'll find that intentionally pursuing and cultivating joy makes all the difference in where you find yourself in your ministry today.

Guest Bio:
Brenton has served in ministry leadership for over 15 years. Youth Pastor, Worship Leader, Foursquare Camp Directors, and Lead Pastor are some of the roles in which he has served. Currently, Brenton and his wife Nicole lead at Illuminate Muncie Foursquare in Muncie, IN, all while navigating life with three wonderful children, a cat and soon to be goats and a dog.

If you'd like to connect further with Brenton, you can visit his church's website at illuminatemuncie.com, or via email at: brenton@illuminatemuncie.com

#16: Not the Hero of This Story | Facing Addiction & Journey Towards Healthier feat. Bob Vander Meer

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Mon, 15 May 2023 05:00:00 GMT

Addiction. As leaders we will either walk with those caught up in it, or find ourselves facing our own. In this episode, we have a raw and real conversation with Bob Vander Meer, a Pastor and Clinician for Pure Desire Ministries. Bob shares about his own journey with sexual addiction with honesty and vulnerability, wisdom to leaders struggling with addiction and the opportunities ministry leaders have to walk with others in the lifelong process of recovery.

Guest Bio:
Robert is a clinician at Pure Desire Ministries, pastor, and businessman. Not always in this order. Though all three of these positions take place in different locations, they all work toward the same goal: helping people become who they were created to be and present with those who are right in front of them. He has been a clinician at Pure Desire for 10 years, along with his wife. Prior to this, he and his wife worked as the Latin America representatives for Pure Desire, traveling in Latin America and speaking on the topic of sexual health. He has been a pastor and/or in ministry for more than 20 years and currently is part of a neighborhood church where he and his family live in North East Portland.

While working as a senior pastor in Las Vegas, NV, Robert began to face his own sexual addiction. Not without the loss of ministry and relationship. The journey toward healthier is always continuing and a launching point for much of what he does now.

Robert and his wife, Rebecca, have been married for 13 years and have two children: their son Amadeus and their daughter Carmela. They met in 1998 on a short-term mission trip in Costa Rica; however, they went their separate ways for a few years and made a mess of life. Fortunately, those messes helped them reconnect and pursue health together later on.

Connect further with Bob at robertv@puredesire.org or visit https://puredesire.org/speakers/

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

Pure Desire Ministries
The Wisdom of Stability: Rooting Faith in Mobile Culture by Jonathan Wilson-Hartgrove

Episode Credits:
Audio Engineer & Editing by Brenton Hill
Produced by Chad Garrison

#28: Professional Christians | Avoiding a Vocational Relationship With Your Creator feat. Andy Sloan

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Mon, 15 Apr 2024 05:00:00 GMT

Have we become professional Christians, abiding in church-ianity? We unpack what this means with our guest, Pastor Andy Sloan. With honesty and humor, Andy shares how he’s learned [the hard way] that being radically on mission is simpler than we may recognize, the practicalities of living out calling, and also what he considers to be his favorite scent.

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

Celebration of Discipline by Richard J. Foster
Connect further with Andy on instagram: @andysloan

Guest Bio:
Andy Sloan is a pastor in Denver, Colorado. Him and his wife, Rebecca, have been married for 12 years and have three beautiful young children.

He recently finished his Masters in Spiritual formation and discipleship - based in Cape Town South Africa 🇿🇦 and has a huge interested in early monastic movements and walking others through cultivating an inner prayer life and understanding the joy of spiritual rhythms.

Episode Credits:
Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams
Produced by Chad Garrison

#58: Were the Spice Girls a Good Team? | Team Dynamics, Goals & Running Lanes

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Fri, 15 May 2026 05:00:00 GMT

What started as a throwaway, icebreaker question, has officially become an entire episode. For this roundtable conversation, we brought in NextGen Pastor and Spice Girls Super Fan, Salina Gordon, along with MWH’s very own AJ Williams, to answer a question that’s deeper than you might think.

Asking, “Were the Spice Girls a good team,” actually opens up an entire discussion around team dynamics, individual personalities, balanced vs. specialized roles, running lanes, team goals, sustainability and what actually defines a “good team”. Like we said, it’s deeper than you think. Join us, it’s time to “Spice Up” this podcast!

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

Connect further with Salina at Illuminatemuncie.com
Connect further with AJ at churchoftheopendoor.snappages.site

Guest Bio:

Salina Gordon has served as the NextGen Pastor at Illuminate Muncie (Muncie, IN) for the last three years, bringing plenty of “Spice Up Your Life” energy to every team and ministry she leads. Through children’s ministry, camp directing, and D.IV.E. team leadership, she’s learned that if you “Wannabe” a strong leader, you have to build people up, encourage collaboration, and know when to “Stop” playing it safe. She believes in taking “risks” on leaders, because friendship never really ends when a team is growing together with purpose. Whether helping volunteers find their voice or guiding students through leadership development, Salina works to make every ministry space a little more “Viva Forever” — full of growth, confidence, and passion for the next generation.

AJ Williams is the Associate Pastor at Church of the Open Door in Clinton, Iowa, and serves as the Iowa NextGen Regional Mobilizer for the Foursquare Central District. Alongside his beautiful wife, Taylor Rel-Williams, and their daughter, Billie Rae-Ann Williams, AJ is passionate about helping people encounter Jesus in a way they feel seen, heard, and so loved that they are also sharing who Jesus is to those around them.

Having served in NextGen ministry across Iowa since 2018, AJ eventually returned to his hometown to continue serving the community that helped shape him. His heart for ministry is centered on helping people discover that they are seen, loved, and created with purpose by God.

Episode Credits:

Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams

Produced by Chad Garrison

#10: Stewards For a Moment In Time | Pillars For Living Well Learned As A Hospice Chaplain

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Wed, 09 Nov 2022 13:00:00 GMT

Why do we do what we do? When the challenges of ministry come, and they will, remembering the answer to this question is crucial to being able to walk through the challenges well.

Our guest for this episode is Pastor Jim McGuire, who has served as a Hospice Chaplain for over 22 years. In our discussion Jim shares the "pillars" of living well he has learned that were taught to him by those who were dying. It's a candid and practical conversation on how we can love the ministry we serve by keeping our perspective properly focused.

Click Here to get Jim's book referenced in this episode, STAY: Four Pillars for Living Life and Finishing Well

Guest Bio:
Rev. Jim McGuire serves as a hospice chaplain at Lightways Hospice and Serious Illness Care in Joliet, Illinois. Jim graduated from Mt. Vernon Bible College (Ohio) in 1987 with a B.A. in Theology and from Lincoln Christian University (Illinois) in 1998 with a M.A. in New Testament. During his 22 years of hospice chaplaincy, he has visited and ministered to well over 5,000 individuals who have faced a terminal diagnosis. Through compassionate and competent care, he has helped each individual and their loved ones navigate one of life’s most stressful and emotional experiences.

In 2019 Jim released his book, STAY: Four Pillars for Living Life and Finishing Well, in which he offers four practical life-lessons we can learn about living as taught by those who are dying. In 2021 he released the same book in the Spanish language under the title, Permanecer: Cuatro Pilares para Vivir la Vida Y Finalizar Bien, with the hope of reaching an often, under-resourced population. As an extension of his chaplaincy work Jim has officiated at hundreds of funeral services always with the goal of providing comfort and hope.

Throughout his 35 years as a licensed and ordained Foursquare minister he has served several congregations in a variety of responsibilities including youth pastor, associate pastor, senior interim, and church planter. Additionally, Jim has previously served as the national Hospice Coordinator for Foursquare Chaplains International (FCI) as well as numerous state and regional ministry assignments. Jim has chaplain ecclesiastical endorsement through FCI. He continues to speak to civic groups and churches.

Feel free to contact Jim as he is a resource of encouragement, education, and support. You can reach Jim at lvngyw@msn.com.

#19: Where the Sticky Gets Lost | From Intuitive to Intentional in Relationships feat. Robby Booth

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Tue, 15 Aug 2023 05:00:00 GMT

Our ministries are an overflow of our relationships. In this episode Pastor, Chaplain and Therapist , Robby Booth, unpacks the wisdom he's gained in his over 80,000 hours of counseling with ministry leaders and couples. We discuss combatting the false beliefs that hurt relationships, healthy ministry/relationship priorities and practical steps we can take individually to be intentional in growing in our relationships.

Click Here For Robby's 10 Steps for Relational Intentionality
Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

Immunity to Change: How to Overcome It and Unlock the Potential in Yourself and Your Organization by Robert Kegan & Lisa Laskow Lahey
Changes That Heal by Dr. Henry Cloud
Safe People: How to Find Relationships That Are Good for You and Avoid Those That Aren't by Dr. Henry Cloud
Gottman Card Decks App
The Conquer Series
Covenant Eyes

Guest Bio:
Robby Booth alongside his wife, Bonita, presently serves the NCO as the director of CSR West. As minister of Pastoral Care directing CSR West, Robby brings care and restoration to pastors, ministers & missionaries of the Foursquare movement.

In other various roles, Robby has served the Foursquare family on the Cabinet and Executive Council, as well as regional supervisor and assistant general supervisor, Director of Foursquare Chaplaincy & national camps director.

Robby and Bonita have served as senior pastors of Faith Chapel Foursquare Church in Glendale, Ariz. for eleven years. Robby and Bonita later moved to Modesto to serve as district supervisors of the former Western District office of Foursquare churches in January 1995.

Robby received a dual major bachelor's degree in Christian ministries/counseling from Hope University and a master's degree in marriage and family counseling from Azusa Pacific University. Prior to moving to Arizona, he served eleven years on staff at Trinity Christian Center Foursquare Church as the married couples’ pastor. He is CERT, CISM and DRT certified as well as specialties in dealing with trauma and sexual addictions. Ordained in 1979, Robby directed two counseling centers in Southern CA before becoming a senior pastor. With over 80,000 hours of counseling, Robby was initially licensed as a MFCC in 1980, later also becoming a trauma specialist.
“An ordinary guy serving an extraordinary God!” is how Robby would say he wants to be known, loving God and loving people. He is a strong family man with deep love for his wife, Bonita, as well as their three children, Jeremy, Jessica, and Joshua and wonderful grandchildren.

Audio Engineer & Editing by Brenton Hill
Produced by Chad Garrison

#50: Never on a Hill Alone | Learning to Lay It Down feat. Timmy Hensel

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Wed, 15 Oct 2025 05:00:00 GMT

If the Lord asked you to lay everything down tomorrow, could you do it? It’s a self-awareness leveling question our guest, Pastor Timmy Hensel, now asks frequently. In this episode Timmy shares how he had never experienced what feels like and means to lay everything down until he recently took a sabbatical. Leaders, you have permission to rest. And this isn’t just for your benefit–laying things down empowers others and ultimately builds our future together.

Timmy also drops some pastoral alliteration like a pro–you gotta hear it!

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

Sabbatical Resources
Connect further with Timmy: Thensel@foursquare.org, River Church Family, River Community Pool, River of Refuge

Guest Bio:

Timmy Hensel and his wife 'Tisha are the co-pastors of River Church Family in Kansas City, Missouri. They’re high school sweethearts that have been happily married for 25 years and have three children: Kai, Asher and Brynnlie. Together with their church family they own and operate a community swimming pool and helped to launch a local nonprofit transitional housing program, River of Refuge. Timmy serves as the Central Southeast Regional Pastor overseeing Foursquare churches in Missouri, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Louisiana, Mississippi and parts of Kansas and Illinois. Timmy graduated from Life Pacific College in 2002 with a BA in Biblical Studies and in 2017 with a MA in Strategic Leadership. He was ordained in the Foursquare Church in 2005.

Timmy is humbled and honored to serve, develop, and celebrate other pastors and leaders throughout our Foursquare family. Timmy loves his city and spends time connecting through various social communities, raising awareness for causes that benefit their neighbors, and involvement in local opportunities to support individuals who have special needs, like his daughter Brynnlie. Timmy loves the sound of frogs and thinks it's God's special way of saying He loves him.

Episode Credits:

Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams

Produced by Chad Garrison

#51: Which Bull in the Draw? | The Adventure of God’s Church feat. Jesse Lambert

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Sat, 15 Nov 2025 06:00:00 GMT

Ministry is a lot like bull riding. Each day you wake up, and you never know which bull you’re gonna get. In this episode Pastor and Church Planter, Jesse Lambert, unpacks the adventure that has been his journey to serve God’s Church. Jesse talks about how he’s learned to walk out practically, “this is God’s church, made up of hurting people and I am a tool to bring healing.” And that journey may not take you to where you thought you were going.

We’re doin’ the blue for this one, so let’s get at it!

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

Connect further with Jesse at The Refuge Texas

Guest Bio:

Jesse Lambert grew up as a military kid and later went and served his country as a United States Marine. The military was a huge part of the Lambert family…one could say it was family tradition as 90% of the family served at one point in their lives. Jesse is one of those guys that can do most anything…and since his military he has owned several small businesses, he even ran remote cameras as an assistant producer for live shows in Branson, MO.

Jesse has been married for 23 years to his wife Rebecca and together they have two amazing boys. Asher is 15 and Gideon is 12…they all serve the Lord as a family and enjoy time away in nature…either in the mountains snowboarding or at the beach Surfing!

Now the Lord is using him and his stories to lead others to Jesus as a Pastor of The Refuge TX in Georgetown, TX. In the past Jesse has served the community and church by helping in children's church, youth group, and leading adults in community groups.

Jesse has been involved in everything from media teams and set-up/tear down to leading men and family groups. Folks love that he is approachable and kind, and he challenges them to grow as disciples of Jesus and as leaders in their community. Jesse is an anointed speaker, and feels humbled that the Holy Spirit would choose to use him to serve in His church.

Episode Credits:

Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams

Produced by Chad Garrison

#48: Imagination Building | A Soul Check feat. BrianJames McMahon

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Mon, 15 Sep 2025 05:00:00 GMT

How do we combat stagnation, cultivate fresh vision and lead others to experience God in fresh ways? What if we told you it has a lot to do with the creativity you unlock through the building of your own imagination? In this episode, BrianJames McMahon once again returns to unpack the practice of widening the capacity of what we see and engage through our imaginations. This practice not only expands the parameters of how much of God we experience ourselves, but also in how we lead others in experiencing God in fresh, new ways.

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

Church Well Co Website
BrianJames Therapy Website
Connect further with Brian James at Instagram: @brianjamesmcmahon @church_well_co

Guest Bio:

BrianJames McMahon is a pastor, counselor, and founder of both Church Well Co, and BrianJames Therapy. He works with pastors, churches, and communities to develop safe(r) relational and emotional spaces for healing and connection.

BrianJames cares deeply that the Church of Jesus embodies the person of Jesus with beauty, bravery, and connection.Never one to shy away from messiness and pain, he has committed his life to helping leaders honestly face the pain present in their lives and callings and to walk into the fullness of the life Jesus has for them in honesty, openness, and bravery.

Episode Credits:

Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams

Produced by Chad Garrison

Episode Artwork Photo by Warren on Unsplash

#47: Your Voice is Important | Nonexclusive Image-bearers of Christ feat. Melissa Brotherton

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Fri, 15 Aug 2025 05:00:00 GMT

This probably goes without saying, but: We believe in Women in Ministry Leadership. That said, in this episode Pastor Melissa Brotherton shares her ministry journey as a female Lead Pastor has formed her ministry as denominational Women’s Mobilizer. Melissa candidly unpacks the psychological, sociological and theological challenges women in ministry face, while speaking encouragement to men and women alike to be functioning together as image-bearers of Christ.

We may have also brought new meaning to the term, “sheep trauma”.

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

Tempered Resilience by Todd Bolsinger
Foursquare Women’s Mobilizer Page
Hope Boulder Website
To connect further with Melissa: Instagram, or email here

Guest Bio:

Melissa Brotherton is the lead pastor of Hope Boulder Foursquare church in Boulder, CO, the Foursquare Central District Women’s Mobilizer and a chaplain for the Boulder Fire Department.

She was born and raised in the shadow of Mount Rainier in the Pacific Northwest. She now calls the shadow of the Rocky Mountains (in Colorado) home, where she lives with her husband and four children. She’s a voracious reader, a lackadaisical knitter, an avid Seahawks fan, and deeply devoted to Jesus and her family.

Melissa has a masters in Strategic Leadership from Life Pacific University and is passionate about seeing people step into their true identity as image-bearers of Christ and what that means for how they live their lives.

Episode Credits:

Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams

Produced by Chad Garrison

#42: Get Into Somebody’s Orbit | Ministering & Being Ministered To feat. Johnny McCallister

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Tue, 15 Apr 2025 05:00:00 GMT

Statistically, the number of ministry leaders struggling with their identity, calling and confidence in ministry is growing, and they are feeling more and more isolated. In this episode, Pastor and Executive Director Johnny McCallister unpacks how ministry leaders need each other more than ever before. Johnny shares keys for resiliency learned from over 30 years of ministry, tools for ministering to others, and what it looks like to allow yourself to be ministered to as well.

We also discover that Johnny & Chad have the same sandwich order, which of course means they’re now best friends–Enjoy this one!

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

The Resilient Pastor: Leading Your Church in a Rapidly Changing World by Glenn Packiam
Barna: The State of Pastors Summit
Connect further with Johnny via Pastors in Prayer Website

Guest Bio:

Johnny Mac is the Executive Director of Pastors in Prayer. Pastors in Prayer is a transformative non-profit ministry dedicated to engaging, encouraging, and equipping pastors from various denominations to thrive in their ministry. Leveraging Johnny's 34 years of experience and wisdom in pastoral leadership, Pastors in Prayer aims to provide valuable resources, support, and mentorship to pastors of all ages. Pastors in Prayer seeks to add value to pastors' lives and ministries, ultimately impacting the Kingdom of God.

Johnny McCallister is the former senior pastor at the First Church of God, where he served for over 13 years. Before that, Johnny served as an Associate Pastor for 18 years, focusing on Student Ministry in his home state of WV and in Fort Wayne. Johnny has been married to Sherrie McCallister for 36 years. Over the years, Sherrie has been instrumental in partnering in many aspects of ministry experience. They have four children: Victoria, the Director of Development at YMCA of Greater Fort Wayne. Brianna works as a Kindergarten Teacher in the Fort Wayne School District; Silas is a senior at Indiana University Kelly School of Business; and Beckett is a sophomore at Carroll High School.

Episode Credits:

Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams

Produced by Chad Garrison

#41: Stewarding People | Discipling, Developing & Deploying Others feat. Beth Hackbarth

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Sat, 15 Mar 2025 05:00:00 GMT

How does knowing who you’ve been created to be as a leader directly impact your effectiveness in discipling others? Pastor and denominational leader, Beth Hackbarth, sits down for a conversation with us to share how her own journey of self-discovery opened up a new level for her in leading others. In this episode, we also talk about what the long game of developing people and leaders in our care looks like, and the impacts of being less loosy-goosy and more strategic in our approach to disciple formation.

We may have also created a spin-off podcast for Brenton & Beth about homesteading. Time will tell–check this one out!

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

To connect further with Beth at, the Foursquare Central District, her FB page or at bhackbarth@foursquare.org
Foursquare “Discover” Resources
Younique - Personal Calling Training

Guest Bio:

Beth Hackbarth is passionate about trailblazing the capacity of people and organizations by pioneering pathways for optimum impact.

With over two decades of experience in ministry, Beth has worn many hats, including Co-Lead Pastor, Worship Pastor, Youth Pastor, Leadership Development Director, Communications and Creative Arts Director, and most recently, as Associate Supervisor for the Central District of Foursquare Churches. In this role, she provides oversight, development, and care to 1,200 pastors across 275 churches in a 17-state region.

Beth holds a bachelor’s degree from Life Pacific University and will be graduating with her master’s degree in Leadership and Culture from George Fox University (Portland Seminary) in May 2025.

For 18 years, Beth has been married to her best friend and ministry partner, Ben. Together, they are raising three children—Analeigh (15), Malachi (13), and Judah (11)—on a homestead in northeastern Colorado. Outside of their busy ministry life, they love fishing, hunting, hiking, backpacking, and spending long summer days at the lake.

Episode Credits:

Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams

Produced by Chad Garrison

#39: Rest on the Fact of Freedom | Persistence & Reimagining Ministry feat. Jared Ballenger

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Wed, 15 Jan 2025 06:00:00 GMT

We’re back! And for our first episode of Season Four we’re visited by Pastor and Non-Profit Leader, Jared Ballenger. In this conversation Jared shares why the word “ministry” has always been spelled “w-o-r-k” (and how that’s not a negative thing), finding freedom on the other side of burnout and the incredible work of rescuing children from human trafficking that he gets to be a part of with Destiny Rescue. It’s a chill interview, so sit down with us!

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

Destiny Rescue Website
To connect further with Jared: jared.ballenger@destinyrescue.org / Instagram: @jaredballenger / Facebook: www.facebook.com/jarednballenger

Guest Bio:
Jared Ballenger, a devoted husband to Lauren and father to Liam and Rigley, is a passionate advocate for justice from Fort Wayne, IN. As the Director of Church Engagement for Destiny Rescue, he empowers churches to take action against human trafficking by connecting them with opportunities to bring freedom to vulnerable children. During visits to Destiny Rescue’s projects in Africa, Jared witnessed the transformative power of rescue firsthand, participating in operations that brought life-changing freedom to exploited children. Also as a licensed Foursquare pastor, Jared dreams of planting a church with his wife one day, where they can continue to serve people and spread hope.

Episode Credits:
Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams
Produced by Chad Garrison

#36: Soul Check | The Journey of Sexual Purity feat. Robby Booth

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Fri, 15 Nov 2024 06:00:00 GMT

As leaders, we must face the reality that we will all journey with sexual sin and purity, whether personally, and/or with others. In this episode, Robby Booth breaks down how this journey isn’t just about sex, but rather about wounded-ness in hearts. Robby also gives practical tools to combat treating our sexuality like soup, and living fully in the transformation God gives. Don’t give up your birthright!

It’s time for a Soul Check, an open discussion with ministry leaders and mental health specialists focused on reinforcing the most important part of you–your soul!

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

Covenant Eyes - Pornography Accountability
Conquer Series with Ted Roberts
F.A.S.T.E.R. Relapse Scale
The Attachment Theory Workbook by Annie Chen, LMFT
Clean: A Proven Plan for Men Committed to Sexual Integrity by Doug Weiss
Intimacy: 100 Day Guide to Lasting Relationships by Doug Weiss
30 Day Marriage Makeover by Doug Weiss
Married and Alone: Healing Exercises for Spouses by Doug Weiss
Intimacy Anorexia. A workbook by Doug Weiss
Partners: Healing from His Addiction by Doug Weiss
Connect further with Robby at rbooth777@gmail.com

Guest Bio:
Robby Booth alongside his wife, Bonita, presently serves the NCO as the director of CSR West. As minister of Pastoral Care directing CSR West, Robby brings care and restoration to pastors, ministers & missionaries of the Foursquare movement. Robby and Bonita have served as senior pastors of Faith Chapel Foursquare Church in Glendale, Ariz. for eleven years. Robby and Bonita later moved to Modesto to serve as district supervisors of the former Western District office of Foursquare churches in January 1995.

Robby received a dual major bachelor's degree in Christian ministries/counseling from Hope University and a master's degree in marriage and family counseling from Azusa Pacific University. Prior to moving to Arizona, he served eleven years on staff at Trinity Christian Center Foursquare Church as the married couples’ pastor. He is CERT, CISM and DRT certified as well as specialties in dealing with trauma and sexual addictions. Ordained in 1979, Robby directed two counseling centers in Southern CA before becoming a senior pastor. With over 80,000 hours of counseling, Robby was initially licensed as a MFCC in 1980, later also becoming a trauma specialist.

“An ordinary guy serving an extraordinary God!” is how Robby would say he wants to be known, loving God and loving people. He is a strong family man with deep love for his wife, Bonita, as well as their three children, Jeremy, Jessica, and Joshua and wonderful grandchildren.

Episode Credits:
Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams
Produced by Chad Garrison
Episode Artwork Photo by Warren on Unsplash

#34: Follow Your Rabbi | The Practice of People Over Performance feat. Marty Schminkey

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Sun, 15 Sep 2024 05:00:00 GMT

How does a failed hunting trip transform the way you minister to others? In this episode our guest, Pastor Marty Schminkey, pulls no punches in sharing how God has used moments like these to change the trajectory of his heart, and ultimately the way he leads others. With authenticity, Marty unpacks how the way he serves, loves and bleeds with others is directly tied to the level of which he practices presence with his Rabbi. We’re shootin’ straight with this one!

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry: How to Stay Emotionally Healthy and Spiritually Alive in the Chaos of the Modern World by John Mark Comer
Unoffendable: How Just One Change Can Make All of Life Better by Brant Hansen
Connect further with Marty at cornerstonefoursquarechurch.org

Guest Bio:
Martin Schminkey currently serves as Senior Pastor in a small rural church in Independence, IA. He has pastored for the last fifteen years, and served as Area Pastor to Foursquare churches in the state of Iowa for the last ten years. He also serves on the Advisory Board for Camp Hickory (Ingleside, IL) and has a passion to see the next generation experience the love of Jesus firsthand.

Marty and his wife Jaleda, have been married thirty four years, have five children and thirteen grandchildren with one more due in a couple of months. They enjoy camping, boating, and family gatherings. Together, they just completed training to become volunteer responders for Foursquare Disaster Relief.

When Marty is not with his wife or at work he can be found on his Harley or hunting and fishing with friends.

#30: Reconciling Your Story | Getting Honest With Yourself feat. Molly DuQue

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Sat, 15 Jun 2024 05:00:00 GMT

Jesus cares more about who I am, than what I do. Pastor and Foursquare Leader, Molly DuQue, shares with us that realizing this truth starts with being honest with yourself. In this episode, Molly unpacks how growing in her self-awareness has shifted ministry to simply “living out the work that Jesus is doing in me,” and how that has made all the difference in her journey. So sit back and join us as DJ Mega-Molly spins for us tracks from her Ocean of Tears B-side!

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:
-- Enneagram Institute - Personality Assessment Tool
-- To connect further with Molly click here

Guest Bio:
Molly DuQue serves as an Associate Supervisor with Northwest Foursquare, caring well for pastors and churches and developing leadership resources. She previously planted, and led Mosaic Chapel, a house church network in Bozeman, MT (now known as The Table). Molly holds a Business Marketing degree from the University of Washington, and a Master of Divinity from Fuller Theological Seminary.

Molly is passionate about leadership development, collaborative teams, innovative and creative expressions of faith, and neighboring well. Molly and her husband, Justin, have been married for 16 years and have two incredible daughters, Brinly (12) and Myla (9). Before becoming a nurse, Justin was the founder and lead guitarist of the rock band, The Classic Crime.

Episode Credits:
Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams
Produced by Chad Garrison

#62: Walk Straight Until God Turns | Learning the Voice of No feat. Ben Weiss

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Wed, 26 Aug 2026 19:00:00 GMT

We often lead from a place of seeking confirmation in God’s “Yes”, but have we learned the voice of God’s “No”? In this episode, Pastor Ben Weiss shares how his ministry journey of highs of the miraculous AND the pain of the lowest lows have reinforced his resiliency in obedience to God’s leading. It also shaped his ministry strategy from pray and spray, to a more focused target.

We’re going big on real and practical in this one, so let’s get to it!

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

Connect further with Ben at https://gracecommunitychurch.com/

Guest Bio:

Pastor Ben Weiss married his high school sweetheart, Crystal Weiss, in 1996, and together they have been serving in ministry since Ben graduated from Christ For The Nations in 1997. Ben joined Grace Community Church as Youth Pastor in 2004 and later served as Family Pastor beginning in 2009 before becoming Senior Pastor in 2012. Over the years, Pastor Ben has also served as District Youth Director, NextGen Director, Family Camp Director, and currently serves as the Area Pastor for North Central Texas.

Ben and Crystal are passionate about seeing Grace Community Church fulfill its mission of Loving God, Loving People, and Building Strong Families. They believe community involvement is foundational to advancing the Gospel and actively minister throughout North Fort Worth and the surrounding communities. Pastor Ben and Crystal have four beautiful children, a wonderful daughter-in-law, and a granddaughter who is in charge of everything!

Episode Credits:

Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams

Produced by Chad Garrison

#43: I Called You to Serve My House | Keeping Ministry Simple feat. Jordan Wall

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Thu, 15 May 2025 05:00:00 GMT

If God chooses the foolish things to shame the wise, then what does that say about me? According to Pastor Jordan Wall, it’s actually pretty simple. In this episode Jordan shares how his story formed a simple approach to his ministry, regardless of the assignment, and how that shifts the fluctuations of ministry from targets to dashboards. Simple.

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

Connect further with Jordan at revitalizechurch.life

Guest Bio:

Jordan Wall is a husband and father of four, with over 20 years of experience in full-time ministry. Throughout his journey, he has served in a variety of roles—including NextGen, Operations, and Worship Pastor—before planting Revitalize Church in Kalamazoo, MI, where he now serves as Senior Pastor. Jordan is passionate about seeing lives transformed through the local church. When he's not preaching or leading, you’ll likely find him enjoying his favorite foods—fried chicken, tacos, and pizza (with salads in between)—or dreaming about one day traveling to space.

Episode Credits:

Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams

Produced by Chad Garrison

#61: No One is Dying | Events, Communications & Telling Your Truth feat. Rachel VanProyen Pratt

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Wed, 15 Jul 2026 05:00:00 GMT

Like it or not, there’s no getting around impact communications and events can have in our ministry. In this episode, Pastor, Communications & Events Coordinator, Rachel VanProyen Pratt shares how she’s continually learning to stay spiritually grounded, pursue excellence and still embrace grace for yourself as you go. We also unpack communication as truth telling and value-giving, when to utilize or abstain from AI, never abdicating your creative spirit and how authenticity communicates on a greater level than you may realize.

It’s time to party, so everybody just have a good time…

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

Connect further with Rachel here
Foursquare Central District Resources

Guest Bio:

Rachel VanProyen Pratt serves as Communications & Events Coordinator for the Central District of The Foursquare Church, leading district communications, managing events, and supporting a network of pastors, churches, and leaders across the region.

A pastor's kid from Washington State, Rachel grew up immersed in church and ministry life, getting her start at summer camps as a counselor, worship leader, and camp cook (yes, really). Those experiences shaped her calling and sparked her passion for creating spaces where people can grow, belong, and connect with Jesus.

Rachel is passionate about giving people and leaders practical tools to follow Jesus well in everyday life. She loves working at the intersection of strategy and execution, working building systems, shaping communication, and designing experiences that equip and move people forward. She believes the best communications and events don't just inform or impress; they help people connect to something bigger than themselves.

She previously served as an assisting pastor at Lifehouse Church in San Antonio, Texas, overseeing communications and administration. Rachel holds a Bachelor's in Biblical Studies from Life Pacific University, is an ordained minister with The Foursquare Church, and is currently pursuing an MA in Spiritual Formation from Northeastern Seminary. She lives in Ashburn, VA with her husband, Jesse, and their cat, Maggie.

#55: Who Are You Discipling? | Asking for a Friend feat. Timmy Hensel & Melissa Brotherton

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Sun, 15 Mar 2026 05:00:00 GMT

As a ministry leader, if you were asked “Who are you discipling,” how would you answer? What if we said preaching and leading classes don’t count? Starts getting real, real fast! In this episode, Timmy Hensel & Melissa Brotherton return for a round table discussion about why this question can be uncomfortable, yet so necessary to keep at the forefront of our ministry. We’ll get practical in implementing discipleship practices, what gets in the way of actually doing it, creating a discipleship culture in our church, shifting away from the shame of asking the question, and ultimately measuring fruitfulness in the process.

Whether we stay on script, or not, this Shop Talk is for you–er, I mean, your friend!

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

DiscipleShift: Five Steps That Help Your Church to Make Disciples Who Make Disciples by Jim Putman & Bobby Harrington with Robert Coleman
Ordinary Discipleship: How God Wires Us for the Adventure of Transformation by Jessie Cruickshank
After Doubt: How to Question Your Faith Without Losing It by A.J. Swoboda

Guest Bio:

Melissa Brotherton is the lead pastor of Hope Boulder Foursquare church in Boulder, CO, the Foursquare Central District Women’s Mobilizer and a chaplain for the Boulder Fire Department.

Episode Credits:

Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams

Produced by Chad Garrison

#6: Making Peace With Jerks | The Art of Dealing With Conflict & Criticism w/ Dr. Daniel Mundt

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Tue, 06 Sep 2022 12:00:00 GMT

In ministry, you will inevitably encounter conflict, and ultimately your ministry will be evaluated by how you deal with conflict.

In this episode, Dr. Daniel Mundt, National Coach for the Foursquare Church, shares the leadership lessons and wisdom he's gained through conflict, confrontation and criticism within ministry. Using practical examples from his own ministry journey, Dan shares what it actually looks like to be a peacemaker--even with jerks.

Guest Bio:
Daniel Mundt serves as a National Coach for The Foursquare Church. Before accepting the role of coach in 2021, Daniel served as the Heartland District Supervisor. The Heartland District is made up of six Midwest states. Those states include Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin, Illinois, Michigan, and Indiana. Daniel’s main responsibilities in the Heartland District, is to develop leaders and multiply and transform churches. Likewise, Daniel has served as on boards and committees, as a lead pastor, church planter, and support roles within the Foursquare Church.

Daniel graduated from Mt. Vernon Bible College (Ohio) in 1986 with a B.A. in Theology and completed a master’s degree in Strategic Leadership in 2015 (California). Daniel received a Doctorate in Strategic Leadership (DSL) from Regent University (Virginia) in May 2020.

Daniel & Cindy have been married for 40 years and have been in Ministry Leadership together for 34 of those years. They are the proud parents of Joshua and Rebecca. In December 2020, their daughter and son-in-law Erick gave them their first grandchild – Indie June Recinos.

If you'd like to connect further with Dan, you can email him at mundtdan4@gmail.com or dmundt@foursquare.org or via Instagram: @danmundt

#46: The Power of Lament | A Soul Check feat. BrianJames McMahon

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Wed, 30 Jul 2025 05:00:00 GMT

Ministry leaders will experience levels of pain, grief and relational struggle that most others will not–it just comes with the territory. What if instead of powering through, withdrawing from or finding ways to cope, we just took time to lament it instead? In this Soul Check episode, our friend BrianJames McMahon returns to unpack how powerful lament can be in our ministry journeys.

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

Church Well Co Website
BrianJames Therapy Website
SLOW Journal
Connect further with Brian James at Instagram: @brianjamesmcmahon @church_well_co

Guest Bio:

Episode Credits:

Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams

Produced by Chad Garrison

Episode Artwork Photo by Warren on Unsplash

#53: Love Hard | The Cost of Truly Loving Well feat. Antonio Sims

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Thu, 15 Jan 2026 06:00:00 GMT

If I love hard, it’s going to cost me something. That is what our first guest of Season Five, Foursquare Central District Supervisor and Pastor, Antonio Sims, leads with as he jumps all into the ministry set before him. In this episode, Antonio shares how his desire to love well comes from a history of pain points, and how it has translated into his roles as a church planter, pastor and denomination leader. If I truly love others, I should feel it–and expect a praise report.

We also definitively mark the best decade, and certainly date ourselves doing it, so let’s fire this season up!

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

To connect further with Antonio click here

Guest Bio:

Antonio Sims is the Foursquare Central District Supervisor and an ordained Foursquare pastor with a deep passion for transformation at every level, within organizations, cities, and individuals. As the founder and co-pastor of True Worship Church, Antonio and his wife, Nina, are dedicated to serving the Detroit community.

With a heart for leadership development, Antonio mentors and coaches church planters, equipping them to build thriving, impactful ministries. His leadership extends beyond the local church, having served on the board of the Foursquare Church and currently on the board of the International Hope Center.

Antonio holds an MBA with a ministry focus and a Master’s in Human Services Counseling with a concentration in Executive Leadership. His diverse experiences include serving as a U.S. Marine, bringing a unique blend of discipline, resilience, and strategic vision to his work. Born in Vietnam and raised in Detroit, Antonio is deeply committed to both his faith and his family. He and Nina are proud parents of six children and grandparents to one beautiful grandson.

Episode Credits:

Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams

Produced by Chad Garrison

#31: Soul Check | The Lord’s Prayer for Leaders Pt. 1 feat. Robby Booth

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Wed, 10 Jul 2024 05:00:00 GMT

Today we unbox a new episode type we’re adding to the MWH mix, Soul Check. These episodes will be an open discussion with ministry leaders and mental health specialists focused on reinforcing the most important part of you–your soul! In this episode we get Part 1 of our discussion with our friend, Robby Booth, breaking down the practicalities of Healing and Strengthening the Ministry Leader’s soul through the Lord’s Prayer. Part 2 releases on July 24!

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

The Dream Center Los Angeles
Connect further with Robby at rbooth777@gmail.com

Guest Bio:
Robby Booth alongside his wife, Bonita, presently serves the NCO as the director of CSR West. As minister of Pastoral Care directing CSR West, Robby brings care and restoration to pastors, ministers & missionaries of the Foursquare movement.

In other various roles, Robby has served the Foursquare family on the Cabinet and Executive Council, as well as regional supervisor and assistant general supervisor, Director of Foursquare Chaplaincy & national camps director.

Robby and Bonita have served as senior pastors of Faith Chapel Foursquare Church in Glendale, Ariz. for eleven years. Robby and Bonita later moved to Modesto to serve as district supervisors of the former Western District office of Foursquare churches in January 1995.

Robby received a dual major bachelor's degree in Christian ministries/counseling from Hope University and a master's degree in marriage and family counseling from Azusa Pacific University. Prior to moving to Arizona, he served eleven years on staff at Trinity Christian Center Foursquare Church as the married couples’ pastor. He is CERT, CISM and DRT certified as well as specialties in dealing with trauma and sexual addictions. Ordained in 1979, Robby directed two counseling centers in Southern CA before becoming a senior pastor. With over 80,000 hours of counseling, Robby was initially licensed as a MFCC in 1980, later also becoming a trauma specialist.

“An ordinary guy serving an extraordinary God!” is how Robby would say he wants to be known, loving God and loving people. He is a strong family man with deep love for his wife, Bonita, as well as their three children, Jeremy, Jessica, and Joshua and wonderful grandchildren.

Episode Credits:
Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams
Produced by Chad Garrison
Episode Artwork Photo by Warren on Unsplash

#18: Shop Talk: Sermonizing | Simplifying the Planning, Composing & Delivery of Sermon Messages

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Fri, 14 Jul 2023 05:00:00 GMT

Happy Summer! For this month's episode, we're excited to introduce a new episode format we are adding to the mix titled "Shop Talk", where we'll do just that--talk shop on a variety of ministry specific topics. For our first Shop Talk, we sit down with pastors Billy Holden and Dustin Black for a roundtable discussion on taking the grind out of planning and prepping, best practices in message collaboration, the freedom of the year long message calendar and wisdom earned the hard way from years of writing and delivering sermons.

Guest Bios:
Billy Holden has has served in ministry leadership for 20 years. Billy and his wife Mandy planted Innovation Church in Lafayette, IN in 2010. They have a total of 5 kids, 2 (twins) of which they adopted out of foster care. They have a huge heart for their community and serve local foster families through fostering, hosting foster agencies and through a foster closet ministry!

If you'd like to connect further with Billy, you can visit their church's website at innovationchurch.cc, or via email at: thatpastorguy@gmail.com

Dustin Black is a Husband, Father to three amazing kids, Barista at a coffee shop, chaplain for local police department, and just started the journey of a wild-land firefighter….oh yeah…and he pastors a church, Grace Foursquare in Rhinelander, WI.

He is a third generation pastor, and always makes the joke, "I was born on a Monday and was at church the next Sunday….except it’s not a joke." He has been in church and in ministry literally his whole life, but has carried the role of pastor for the last 19 years. He writes, "My idea of pastoral ministry has shifted a ton the last eight years, but my desire to help people realize that Jesus loves them just the way they are, has always stayed the same."

Connect Further with Dustin at:

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

7 Practices for Effective Ministry by Andy Stanley, Reggie Joiner, Lane Jones

Episode Credits:
Audio Engineer & Editing by Brenton Hill
Produced by Chad Garrison
Episode Artwork Photo by Hassan yahia on Pexels

#8: Pastoral Grit | Staying Encouraged & Resilient in Ministry Leadership feat. Loren Houltberg

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Tue, 04 Oct 2022 12:00:00 GMT

If there was ever a word that accurately sums up what is needed to be a ministry leader, "Grit" does it well.

Ministry is not something for the thin-skinned or weak of heart. It requires courage, resolve and strength of character in the face of adversity--otherwise known as, Grit. In this episode, seasoned Pastor and Leader, Loren Houltberg, shares key practices that have helped him foster resiliency in his 40+ years of pastoral ministry.

Guest Bio:
Loren and Erie Houltberg were pastors of Emmanuel Foursquare Church from 1980-2020. Loren has Masters degree from Friends University in Wichita Kansas and a Doctor of Ministry degree from Fuller Theological seminary in Pasadena, California. The Houltbergs have four children and seven grandchildren. Loren is a regional pastor for the Foursquare church and a college professor.

Click Here to get Loren's book referenced in the episode, Pastoral Grit: Key Practices for Resiliency in Ministry

#3: Beware the Pedestal | How to Avoid Being a "Ministry Hero" feat. Christina Hernandez

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Tue, 28 Jun 2022 12:00:00 GMT

Everyone is looking for a hero. But trying to fulfill the "Ministry Hero Spot" is a blueprint to hating your ministry and losing your own identity.

In this episode, speaker and nonprofit founder, Christina Hernandez, tells her story of tragedy and the heartbreaks that have shaped her own pursuit of authentic leadership. Christina also unpacks for us the practicalities of leading from vulnerability, transparency and true authenticity that knocks over the pedestal others try to put us on.

Guest Bio:
Christina Hernandez is a passionate follower of Jesus, a wife, mother, professional speaker, and founder of Sister Life Ministries in Cedar Rapids, IA. Christina is dedicated to unity in the body of Christ, authentic community, and reaching outside the church walls with the love of Christ. She serves her church, Springs of Life, as a part of the speaking team and as a council member.

Also, as the Program Director at Chains Interrupted (her paid gig), Christina offers hope and healing to survivors of human trafficking. Christina's own journey has included many plot twists and turns over the years, which include countless blessings, as well as tragic heartbreaks along the way. These experiences have made Christina a whole-hearted ambassador of tenacious hope.

If you'd like to connect further with her, you can visit her website at mysisterlife.com , search "Sister Life Ministries" on Facebook, or email at: sisterlifeministries@gmail.com

#17:Wait 60 Minutes to Call 911 | Ministry vs Vocation Without Blowing Up The Church w/ Dustin Black

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Thu, 15 Jun 2023 05:00:00 GMT

Am I a Pastor, or the CEO of a Small Nonprofit? It's a question that this episode's guest, Pastor Dustin Black, has wrestled with in recent years. Join us for this interview as Dustin deconstructs ministry as a vocation verses ministry as what the leader has been created to do, and also how this simple truth has transformed his ministry and created vibrant community within it.

Guest Bio:
Dustin Black is a Husband, Father to three amazing kids, Barista at a coffee shop, chaplain for local police department, and just started the journey of a wild-land firefighter….oh yeah…and he pastors a church, Grace Foursquare in Rhinelander, WI.

He is a third generation pastor, and always makes the joke, "I was born on a Monday and was at church the next Sunday….except it’s not a joke." He has been in church and in ministry literally his whole life, but has carried the role of pastor for the last 19 years. He writes, "My idea of pastoral ministry has shifted a ton the last eight years, but my desire to help people realize that Jesus loves them just the way they are, has always stayed the same."

Connect Further with Dustin at:

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

Episode Credits:
Audio Engineer & Editing by Brenton Hill
Produced by Chad Garrison

#2: A Rediscovered Love For People | Cultivating Unity Within Ministry Starts With You w/ Jeff Watts

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Tue, 14 Jun 2022 15:00:00 GMT

In a world that continues to trend towards increasing divisiveness, the task of implementing and cultivating unity gets harder each day for leaders.

Pursuing unity within our ministries, and with those we are leading is something that is often talked about, even preached about--but what does that really look like? In this episode, Jeff Watts, Lead Pastor of Renaissance in Decatur, IL, get's pretty real with us about what is actually required of the ministry leader first, before we can ever see unity within those we are leading.

Guest Bio:
Jeff is a husband to Stacey and father to a two wonderful daughters. He and Stacey started a church called Renaissance around 11 years ago and is currently one of the pastors on staff there. You can find him most afternoons at his favorite Mexican restaurant where he’ll remind you there is only one way to ruin a taco… by putting fish in it!

If you'd like to connect further with Jeff, you can visit their church's website at renaissancedecatur.org, or via email at Jeff@rendecatur.org, or find him on twitter @jeff_watts_1

#33: Just Show Up | As You Go, I Will Show feat. Nina Sims

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Thu, 15 Aug 2024 05:00:00 GMT

Do you ever feel unqualified, or under-equipped as a leader? Well good news, you're not alone! In this episode Pastor and Church Planter, Nina Sims, shares with us how her motto of "Just Show Up" is a daily exercise in courage and confidence in the belief that God placing you in leadership was not an accident. And as you show up, God will too.

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

Connect further with Nina: Facebook - True Worship Church, Instagram - @trueworshipdetroit

Guest Bio:
Pastor Nina Sims is a devoted servant of God, dedicated wife, and loving mother. Married to Antonio Sims, she finds immense joy and fulfillment in her role as a spouse and parent to their six beautiful children.

Pastor Nina's life is centered around her faith and her love for the Lord and His people. She has personally experienced the transformative power of God's love and grace, which has shaped her into a compassionate and empathetic individual. Her desire is to share this life-changing experience with others and guide them towards a deeper relationship with God.

Since March 2021, Pastor Nina has been leading True Worship Church as its pastor. Her leadership is marked by her kindness, care, and unwavering commitment to serving the congregation. She strives to create an atmosphere of love, acceptance, and spiritual growth within the church community.

Known for her genuine warmth and approachability, Pastor Nina is always ready to lend a listening ear and provide guidance to those in need. Her sermons are filled with wisdom, encouragement, and practical teachings that inspire her congregation to live out their faith in their daily lives.

Pastor Nina Sims embodies the values of faith, family, and service. Her life and ministry are a testament to the transformative power of God's love, and she continues to be a guiding light for those seeking spiritual guidance and a deeper connection with the Lord.

Episode Credits:
Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams
Produced by Chad Garrison

#32: Soul Check | The Lord’s Prayer for Leaders Pt. 2 feat. Robby Booth

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Wed, 24 Jul 2024 05:00:00 GMT

It’s time for a Soul Check, an open discussion with ministry leaders and mental health specialists focused on reinforcing the most important part of you–your soul! In this episode we get Part 2 of our discussion with our friend, Robby Booth, breaking down the practicalities of Healing and Strengthening the Ministry Leader’s soul through the Lord’s Prayer.

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

The Dream Center Los Angeles
Connect further with Robby at rbooth777@gmail.com

Guest Bio:
Robby Booth alongside his wife, Bonita, presently serves the NCO as the director of CSR West. As minister of Pastoral Care directing CSR West, Robby brings care and restoration to pastors, ministers & missionaries of the Foursquare movement.

In other various roles, Robby has served the Foursquare family on the Cabinet and Executive Council, as well as regional supervisor and assistant general supervisor, Director of Foursquare Chaplaincy & national camps director.

Robby and Bonita have served as senior pastors of Faith Chapel Foursquare Church in Glendale, Ariz. for eleven years. Robby and Bonita later moved to Modesto to serve as district supervisors of the former Western District office of Foursquare churches in January 1995.

Robby received a dual major bachelor's degree in Christian ministries/counseling from Hope University and a master's degree in marriage and family counseling from Azusa Pacific University. Prior to moving to Arizona, he served eleven years on staff at Trinity Christian Center Foursquare Church as the married couples’ pastor. He is CERT, CISM and DRT certified as well as specialties in dealing with trauma and sexual addictions. Ordained in 1979, Robby directed two counseling centers in Southern CA before becoming a senior pastor. With over 80,000 hours of counseling, Robby was initially licensed as a MFCC in 1980, later also becoming a trauma specialist.

“An ordinary guy serving an extraordinary God!” is how Robby would say he wants to be known, loving God and loving people. He is a strong family man with deep love for his wife, Bonita, as well as their three children, Jeremy, Jessica, and Joshua and wonderful grandchildren.

Episode Credits:
Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams
Produced by Chad Garrison
Episode Artwork Photo by Warren on Unsplash

#5: Not Even 100% Beef | Creating the Change You Want to See feat. Billy Holden

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Tue, 02 Aug 2022 12:00:00 GMT

The only thing that's constant, is change. Yet most people don't like (or possibly HATE?) it at all. This holds true especially in ministry, and more often then we want to admit, our leadership within our ministries.

In this episode, Billy Holden, Lead Pastor of Innovation Church in Lafayette, IN discusses how he has learned to be fueled by change, whether it be expected or unexpected, and seeing these moments as opportunities to innovate.

Guest Bio:
Billy has has served in ministry leadership for 20 years. Billy and his wife Mandy planted Innovation Church in Lafayette, IN in 2010. They have a total of 5 kids, 2 (twins) of which they adopted out of foster care. They have a huge heart for their community and serve local foster families through fostering, hosting foster agencies and through a foster closet ministry!

If you'd like to connect further with Billy, you can visit their church's website at innovationchurch.cc, or via email at: thatpastorguy@gmail.com

#11: Not a Bait & Switch | Owning Your Story, Digital Community & Chicken Sandwiches w/ Drew & Fred

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Tue, 22 Nov 2022 12:00:00 GMT

For our Season One Finale, we join forces with Fred Schmitt and Drew Dodd, ministry leaders and also hosts of The Next Forty Podcast, for a crossover interview about creating community in the digital space, chicken sandwiches, Britney Spears and coming to a place of owning your story--the good, the bad and also the ridiculous.

As they say on their podcast, “it’s sometimes funny, sometimes serious, but always good”. We think you'll walk away from this one entertained and encouraged in your own ministry story.

Check Out The Next Forty Podcast and Connect Further Here!
We’ll see you for Season Two in January 2023!

Guest Bios:
Fred Schmitt has spent the last 18 years doing Youth Ministry in a local church. Fred has recruited and equipped teams of volunteers to be on the front lines of student ministry. Fred has led initiatives to resource parents to actively participate in the spiritual growth of their students, and collaborated with other staff members and elders on projects that impact the entire ministry of the church. He now serves as Pastoral Care Minister in a role where he is working to create a culture of care in his community and congregation.

Fred graduated with a Bachelor’s Degree in Biblical Studies/Youth Ministry from Cincinnati Christian University and a Master’s Degree in Pastoral Leadership. He is also a Certified Youth Ministry Coach through the National Association of Youth Ministry. Fred is married to Erin for 17 years and has two children: Eliana and Everett.

Drew Dodd has been in ministry for the last 19 years. 15 of those were spent in student ministry with a couple of stints as a worship minister as well. Currently he is a Discipleship Minister who oversees Small Groups, Growth Class, and Micro Groups. He's been married to Emily for 18 years and has two daughters, Chloe and Samantha.

#29: Get Into the Offering Plate | Seeing Every Moment as an Opportunity feat. Tim Wimberly

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Wed, 15 May 2024 05:00:00 GMT

When you define ministry, is the first thing you think of, “your life”? It is for this episode’s guest, Pastor and Missions Worker, Tim Wimberly. But Tim’s response doesn’t come from an overly spiritual place, but rather from witnessing first hand God’s faithfulness through 38+ years of a life given to ministry. Tim unpacks how he’s been able to keep going, how he uniquely translates metrics for success, and why he has no problem rocking a mullet.

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

The Backside of Hope: Leaving a Legacy for the Next Generation by Connie Eldridge & Tim Wimberly
Connect further with Tim at https://tothenations.life

Guest Bio:
Tim & Dhana Wimberly have been married for over 37 years. They have five grown sons, five beautiful daughter-in-loves, eleven precious grandchildren, and more on the way! They have been serving the local church and the Great Commission for the last 35 plus years in various capacities, but have maintained an emphasis towards marriage and family and developing young leaders, and loving the poor.

For the last 8+ years they have been involved with an organization called Foursquare Missions International, where they have been serving in South East Asia, and now presently residing in Cluj Romania, as FMI Workers, helping in developing and coaching young leaders, establishing marriage and family ministry resources within the context of various cultures. Their passion for pursuing Jesus encapsulates their longing for raising up the next generation, with great emphasis in the area of healthy relationships, life leadership.

Episode Credits:
Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams
Produced by Chad Garrison

#14: Know Your Lane | Confidence in Who You're Called to Be & To w/ Esperanza Morphis

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Wed, 15 Mar 2023 05:00:00 GMT

It is one thing to hold a ministry position of leadership, but it's another to believe you're exactly who God should have placed there--especially when it doesn't go the way you thought it would!

In this episode Pastor and Denominational leader, Esperanza Morphis, gives candid insight from her recent, unexpected season of ministry role transition, and how it revealed an unhealthy source of significance within her identity. Esperanza also unpacks how "knowing your lane" with your Creator practically plays out in times of disappointment, self-doubt as well as seasons of fruitfulness and flourishing.

Guest Bio:
Esperanza Morphis, a native of the south suburbs of Chicago, has served as an Associate Pastor of the Chicago Heights Foursquare Church with Senior Pastor Greg Howse. Esperanza is passionate about making disciples, facilitating the holistic development of strong and healthy leaders, and mobilizing them into their respective spheres of influence.

Esperanza, an ordained Foursquare minister, has served on the ICFG board of directors, as a Regional Pastor for the Central East District, and is presently serving as an Associate Supervisor for the Foursquare Central District. Esperanza also currently serves as the President of City Helps CDC, a not-for-profit organization focusing on mental health, at-risk youth, and senior assistance. Esperanza holds a BA in Theology, with a concentration in Family Counseling from Summit College, and an MDiv from Indiana Wesleyan Seminary. Esperanza's greatest treasures consist of her husband, two adult children, and three grandsons.

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

Renovation of the Heart: Putting on the Character of Christ by Dallas Willard
21 Leadership Issues in the Bible: Life-Changing Lessons from Leaders in Scripture by John Maxwell

Episode Credits:
Audio Engineer & Editing by Brenton Hill
Produced by Chad Garrison

#22: Expect Only To Serve | Living & Leading With Hands Open feat. Kimberly Dirmann

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Sun, 15 Oct 2023 05:00:00 GMT

How do you achieve success in ministry? Become a servant to all. In this episode, Pastor Kimberly Dirmann recounts how God has moved her from a perfectionist people-pleaser focused on outcomes, to recognizing success in simply doing what God says, and not holding on too long. Kimberly also unpacks what cultivating love for people (even difficult ones) looks like practically, and how to avoid being a Saul to the David’s in your ministry.

Guest Bio:
Kimberly Dirmann was born in Colombia, South America, and lived in Colombia until she was 10. She has been married to Jerry for 35 years and they have two grown children, Alexandra and Jonathan, and six grandchildren.

Kimberly and Jerry served as youth pastors at Valley Community Church, El Monte Foursquare, for 8 ½ years (1986-1994). In December 1994, Jerry was appointed Foursquare National Youth Minister and they traveled extensively with their children throughout the United States ministering at camps, and to youth pastors and leaders.

Kimberly served as the Director of Foursquare Women International from 2000-2005 with the primary focus of resourcing women in ministry leadership. Kimberly also co-hosted a talk show on a Christian radio station during this time.

Kimberly was appointed as the Southwest District Supervisor for the Foursquare denomination and served in this role from May of 2009 until May of 2016. She, along with her district staff, oversaw 180 churches in Arizona, parts of Southern California, Southern Nevada, and Southern Utah.

Kimberly is the co-founder and co-pastor of The Rock Network, a ministry based in Anaheim, California consisting of multiple campuses and media ministries, and over 100 house churches. She also serves as the Director of “She Leads California”, an organization of Christian women who lead in various spheres of influence.

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

The Awe of God: The Astounding Way a Healthy Fear of God Transforms Your Life by John Bevere
Connect w/ Kimberly at https://www.therockanaheim.com/about

Episode Credits:
Audio Engineer & Editing by Brenton Hill
Produced by Chad Garrison

#20: They’re Not “Less Than” | Creating Opportunities over Filling Holes in NextGen feat. Tami Jones

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Fri, 15 Sep 2023 05:00:00 GMT

It’s the most important ministry within the church, and yet it’s oftentimes the most overlooked. In this episode we sit down for a conversation with Pastor and NextGen Denominational Leader, Tami Jones, on ministry to the Next Generation (NextGen). Tami unpacks for us trends in NextGen Ministry, best practices for NextGen Leaders, wisdom in leading NextGen Leaders on your team, and of course, how to escape from a blender if you were suddenly a No. 2 pencil. Let's GOOO!

Guest Bio:
Tamara (Tami) Jones resides in the beautiful state of Nebraska with her husband of 30 years, and together they have three children, and a dynamic son-in-law.Tami accepted Christ at the young age of 12 at a camp and received her ministry calling just a few years later.

For more than 30 years, she has been serving and leading in various capacities in NextGen ministries. Vocationally, she has been in nursing, vocational/educational coaching, and human services while volunteering or teaching in the local church NextGen ministry settings. However, twelve years ago, she was offered a full-time position as a Children's Pastor in a Foursquare Church, eventually serving as a youth pastor, and then finally as the Executive NextGen Pastor overseeing all Nextgen Ministries locally, and at satellite/church plant locations.

Currently, Tami is serving as NextGen Coordinator of the Foursquare Central District, which serves 17 states. Her role involves bringing connection, collaboration, celebration, and care to kids, youth, and young adult ministry pastors and leaders within those 17 states. Her passion is to help next-generation ministry leaders become holistically healthy, identify their God-given abilities, develop leadership plans, and spread the gospel of Jesus to kids, youth, and their families. She is currently attending Life Pacific University pursuing her Master’s Degree in Strategic Leadership.

Connect Further with Tami at:

jonestamara316@gmail.com
https://linktr.ee/centraldistrictnextgen

Episode Credits:
Audio Engineer & Editing by Brenton Hill
Produced by Chad Garrison

#37: So, We Can Hate It? | Ministry Without Apathy feat. Tim Lee

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Sat, 30 Nov 2024 06:00:00 GMT

As ministry leaders, there are things about ministry that we hate, and that’s ok. It only took us 37 episodes to get to that, but here we are for a conversation with pastor, professor, fellow podcaster and friend, Tim Lee. In this episode Tim gets reflective on his own recent journey of deconstructing what ministry is vs. what he’s always known, the truth that we are still not healthy after all that happened in 2020, and why apathy is actually the greatest threat to anything we do. It’s a real iron vs. iron conversation!

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

Listen to the How To Church Podcast here
The Violent Take It By Force by Matthew D. Taylor
The Gift of Thorns by A. J. Swoboda
Connect further with Tim at avlife.church/about-us

Guest Bio:
The most important thing about Tim Lee is that he loves Jesus, is married to his high school sweetheart, Sharon, and together they are raising their two daughters, Hannah and Selah.

Tim has served in ministry leadership roles at various Foursquare churches for more than two decades, and since 2011 he and Sharon have been the Co-Lead Pastors of Life Church in Lancaster, California.

Having earned a doctorate in Leadership and Spiritual Formation from Portland Seminary, Tim also serves as the Chair of the Department of Theology and Ministry at LIFE Pacific University and Director of the McPherson Preaching Institute (MPI) where he hopes to plant seeds that will cultivate the next generation of pentecostal preachers and ministry leaders.

Episode Credits:
Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams
Produced by Chad Garrison

#40: Add “Interim” to Your Job Title | Integrated Missiology feat. Peter Henderson

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Sat, 15 Feb 2025 06:00:00 GMT

Is it your “ministry”, or your “mission assignment”? Distinguishing this small, yet profound detail has made all the difference for our guest, Pastor Peter Henderson. In this episode, Peter shares how being a survivor of the Columbine thrust him into Pastoral Ministry as a teen–leading him to become a Senior Pastor in his 20’s, the wisdom gained from being a young leader in a healthy transition, and how his passion for being on mission together with Jesus creates a culture of integrated missiology.

Also, Peter doesn’t like to be poked, and many apologies are made. So give it a listen!

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

Perspectives USA Course
Emergenetics International
To connect further with Peter at livingwayfellowship.org

Guest Bio:

Peter Henderson has been the senior pastor at Living Way Fellowship in Highlands Ranch, Colorado since January 2010 and is currently the Foursquare Central District Mission Mobilizer. Peter and his wife, Jill, have been married since 2014 and have two beautiful young daughters, Bonnie and Brigitte.

Peter completed his BA in Biblical Studies and MA in Strategic Leadership at Life Pacific University. He has served as a board member for several mission agencies, including OMF, an organization serving East Asia’s peoples, and GlobalCall, a leadership and community outreach ministry in Ethiopia. He’s passionate about collaborative leadership, disciple-making movements and reaching Unreached People Groups.

Episode Credits:

Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams

Produced by Chad Garrison

#21: Givin’ the Love Tap | Navigating Healthy Conflict Resolution feat. Robby Booth

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Fri, 29 Sep 2023 05:00:00 GMT

Conflict within relationship is unavoidable, but healthy resolution doesn’t come naturally. In this BONUS! episode, Pastor, Chaplain and Therapist, Robby Booth, returns for an extended conversation on pursuing healthy conflict resolution within the relationships every leader holds, and unpacks learned wisdom in seeing relationships strengthened on the other side of conflict.

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

Conflict Resolution: “Engage to Resolve.” (11 Pillars of Healthy Resolve) blogpost by Robert Booth
Changes That Heal by Dr. Henry Cloud
Safe People: How to Find Relationships That Are Good for You and Avoid Those That Aren't by Dr. Henry Cloud
Email Robby at rbooth777@gmail.com

Guest Bio:
Robby Booth alongside his wife, Bonita, presently serves the NCO as the director of CSR West. As minister of Pastoral Care directing CSR West, Robby brings care and restoration to pastors, ministers and missionaries of the Foursquare movement.

In other various roles, Robby has served the Foursquare family on the Cabinet and Executive Council, as well as regional supervisor and assistant general supervisor, Director of Foursquare Chaplaincy and national camps director.

Robby and Bonita have served as senior pastors of Faith Chapel Foursquare Church in Glendale, Ariz. for eleven years. Robby and Bonita later moved to Modesto to serve as district supervisors of the former Western District office of Foursquare churches in January 1995.

Robby received a dual major bachelor's degree in Christian ministries/counseling from Hope University and a master's degree in marriage and family counseling from Azusa Pacific University. Prior to moving to Arizona, he served eleven years on staff at Trinity Christian Center Foursquare Church as the married couples’ pastor. He is CERT, CISM and DRT certified as well as specialties in dealing with trauma and sexual addictions. Ordained in 1979, Robby directed two counseling centers in Southern CA before becoming a senior pastor. With over 80,000 hours of counseling, Robby was initially licensed as a MFCC in 1980, later also becoming a trauma specialist.

“An ordinary guy serving an extraordinary God!” is how Robby would say he wants to be known, loving God and loving people. He is a strong family man with deep love for his wife, Bonita, as well as their three children, Jeremy, Jessica, and Joshua and wonderful grandchildren.

Episode Credits:
Audio Engineering by Brenton Hill
Edited & Produced by Chad Garrison
Episode Artwork Photo by Hassan yahia on Pexels

#4: All the Legos on the Same Table | Co-Leading & Still Liking Each Other w/ Justin & Janae Klatt

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Tue, 12 Jul 2022 12:00:00 GMT

Ministry is not meant to be done apart from your relationships. When agreement between ministry couples is missing, the shared ministry will suffer and the relationship is headed for trouble.

In this episode, Pastors and Church Planters, Justin & Janae Klatt, unpack the unique dynamic of Co-leading in ministry. Through sharing about their church planting journey, the Klatt's discuss how they've learned to lead together, and still like each other at the end of the day.

Guest Bio:
Justin & Janae live in Gilbert, AZ with their 2 daughters ZoëJane (13) and MacCallum Hope (9). After 20+ years of serving and pastoring within the local church, Justin and Janae began the journey of lead pastoring. Over 4 years ago they co-founded Imagine Church Global, a collective of digital communities from around the globe. In their free time, you can find Justin off roading in his Jeep and Janae sipping an iced cortado while shopping at target.

If you'd like to connect further with them, you can visit their church's website at imagine.church, or via email at justin@imagine.church, or janae@imagine.church

#59: It’s Hard & Not Hard | Transitions & Building the Right Team feat. Jay Haugh

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Mon, 15 Jun 2026 05:00:00 GMT

You might have a good team, but is it the right team? In this episode, we sit down with Pastor Jay Haugh to discuss his journey of stepping into the role as a first-time senior pastor in a brand new city, and the practical insight he’s gained through the seasons of assessing and building ministry teams, identifying leadership gaps and ultimately prioritizing character over charisma.

Brenton & Jay also bond over their workout routines, so let’s get to it!

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

Connect further with Jay here
Ekkology: Pastoral Leadership Assessment

Guest Bio:

Jay has been married to Jen for almost 23 years. Ministry has taken them on a journey to multiple locations (TX, Mexico, CA, MN, WA, and IA). They have two teenagers, Ben (18) and Abi (16). They seem to like us, the Church, and Jesus, which is a blessing we don't take for granted (especially their heart for Jesus).

Jay enjoys helping others engage the Bible and take next steps toward God. He loves leading and serving alongside the NCBC staff and volunteers and being a part of God’s mission to help others find and follow Jesus.

To keep himself close to Jesus, Jay works at memorizing Scripture, a practice that has changed his mindset and given him hope when life is hard. He regularly remains active through CrossFit, basketball, golf, and walks with his wife, Jen. He also enjoys an action or mystery book, shoot em' up movie, and a donut or pastry.

Education

BA in Philosophy at Saint Cloud State University (2003)
M.Div at Fuller Theological Seminary (2011)
D.Min at Talbot Seminary (2024)

Episode Credits:

Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams

Produced by Chad Garrison

#52: Don’t Hit Cruise Control | Stop Paying Your Insecurity Bill feat. Chad Halverson

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Mon, 15 Dec 2025 21:00:00 GMT

Is it possible to get to a place in ministry where things seem easy, and less challenging? Bi-vocational Pastor, Chad Halverson, says, “Yes”. But it’s not the promised land that you might think. In this episode, Chad recalls the major shift he experienced going from only ever being in full-time vocational ministry to moving cross country twice within a year, picking up two marketplace jobs, and all the lessons he is still learning from stepping outside of the insecurity of what is "safe".

You’re getting two Chad’s for the price of one for this season’s finale, so let’s get to it!

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

Connect further with Chad at wintersetfoursquare.org

Guest Bio:

Chad Halverson has served in the Pastoral ministry for over 30 years. Since leaving full time vocational ministry in 2022, he and his family have settled in Winterset, IA where he is an assisting minister in the Winterset Foursquare Church. He vocationally works for a large farm coop, but continues to have a heart for the local church, church health and pastoral care.

Growing up in the Midwest, he attended Life Pacific University and has been a licensed Foursquare Pastor since 1996. He is married to his beautiful wife, Kerri, of 23 years and has four (mostly) amazing kids. This new bi-vocational chapter in his life has been a challenge, and a great reminder of God’s desired presence in the secular, everyday, mundane Monday through Friday weekly life.

Episode Credits:

Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams

Produced by Chad Garrison

#15: A Wrench Can Be a Hammer | Thriving in the Adventure of Church Planting w/ Paul & Janice Rice

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Fri, 14 Apr 2023 05:00:00 GMT

"What you invest is what you will reap, and what you put up with is what you’ll end up with." In this episode, we have a conversation with Paul & Janice Rice, who have planted and pastored Riverside Community Church for over 20 years! In this interview they unpack the joy of being a bi-vocational pastor (seriously!), the roller coaster that is the church planting experience, and all that goes into leading the same church they started all these years--and loving it more each day!

Guest Bio:
Paul and Janice Rice share a love for pastoring the local church, a passion for worldwide missions, and mentoring the next generation of believers. They church planted Riverside Community Church 20 years ago in Rainier, OR in an old elementary school. Out of that building has sprung up numerous ministries such as a Pregnancy Center, a Thrift Store, a place for AA to meet, and youth summer camps. The goal of Riverside is to equip every believer, no matter their age, to do the ministry God has planned for their life.

As bi-vocational pastors, Paul and Janice and their family, have built homes, remodeled others and owned a Bouncy House business. They work outside the church to fund their “ministry habit.” Their six children have partnered with them in ministry at Riverside, in missions, and now, in their own ministries. Paul designs homes, in the evenings, just for fun. Janice writes books in her spare time because it lets her drink lots of coffee, be alone and read a lot for research. Their kids are their treasure.

Connect Further with Paul & Janice at paulnjanice@hotmail.com or riversiderainier.com

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

Operation Solid Lives

Episode Credits:
Audio Engineer & Editing by Brenton Hill
Produced by Chad Garrison

#56: Leading From the 2nd Chair | An Executive Pastor’s Perspective feat. Starla Smith

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Wed, 15 Apr 2026 19:00:00 GMT

How do you lead when you are ultimately not the one in charge? In this episode we sit down with Starla Smith, who serves as an Executive Pastor, to break down what leadership from the 2nd chair looks like. Starla shares stories from her ministry journey of unexpectedly finding herself in roles of authority, what she’s learned from seasons of transition and her intentionality to keep touch points with people just as important as the tasks of the role.

Get your thinking emoji loaded up for this one, because the 2nd chair matters!

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

Connect further with Starla here

Guest Bio:

Executive Pastor · Author · Overcomer, Starla Smith is a wife, mother of two, and proud grandma — or "Lala," as her four grandkids call her. But beyond the roles she treasures most, she's also a pastor with a story few would have predicted.

An unlikely minister by her own admission, Starla's journey in faith began simply — serving in youth groups at the very church where she now leads as executive pastor. She didn't chase a title; she was faithful to each open door, and those doors led her further than she ever imagined.

A writer, adventurer, teacher, and lover of deep conversation, Starla brings her whole self to every room she enters. Her heart beats for one thing above all: encouraging others to live fearlessly — no matter what they're facing.

"To live my life as an example of one who overcomes — sharing my story to encourage others to live fearlessly in the face of every struggle, that I might be faithful in all He asks, moving forward through trusting in His love."

Episode Credits:

Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams

Produced by Chad Garrison

#24: Not a Two for One | Unpacking the Dynamics of Ministry With Your Spouse

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Fri, 15 Dec 2023 06:00:00 GMT

Ministry as an individual is one thing, but ministry as a couple is another level. In our stacked Season Two finale, we add Lindsay Garrison, and Dustin and Joanna Black to the ongoing conversation of navigating ministry with your spouse. Together, we unpack the hard earned wisdom gained in clarifying spouse vs. ministry roles, ministry expectations, relational losses, family dynamics and lots more. It's all still a work in progress, but you can do ministry without hating each other.

Guest Bios:
Lindsay Garrison graduated from the University of Nevada Las Vegas in 2006 with a M.S. degree in Counseling and is a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist. Lindsay also serves as a Pastor at Springs of Life in Cedar Rapids, IA as a Pastoral Counselor & in Leader Care capacities. Lindsay has been married to her husband, Chad, since 2004 and shares three amazing kids.

Joanna Black

Dustin Black is a Husband, Father to three amazing kids, Barista at a coffee shop, chaplain for local police department, and just started the journey of a wild-land firefighter….oh yeah…and he pastors a church, Grace Foursquare in Rhinelander, WI.

Episode Credits:
Audio Engineer & Editing by Brenton Hill
Produced by Chad Garrison
Episode Artwork Photo by Hassan yahia on Pexels

#26: The Sacredness of Shepherding | Hard Knocks of Real Humility feat. Suzie Genin

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Thu, 15 Feb 2024 06:00:00 GMT

What’s the biggest obstacle a leader will face within ministry? Recognizing that it’s, “Not about you.” In this episode, Pastor Suzie Genin gets real (and has fun) with her journey of learning humility the hard way, becoming equipped as you equip others, and seeing every invited opportunity to minister as sacred…and also calling out Chad’s questionable, past fashion choices. We hit it all in this one, so fire it up!

Guest Bio:
Suzie Genin is an energetic speaker who is passionate about her family and her community. Possessing a courageous ability to lead through vulnerability as she preaches and teaches the word, she desires for people to awaken to the truth found in Jesus and who He has created them to be. Known for her quirky boldness, Suzie is always ready to have fun and keeping it real while listening to the still small voice in the midst of life.

Born and raised in California, Suzie moved to Madison, WI 19 years ago with her husband Jeremiah. From the onset of their relationship they have served together in ministry in various capacities. While this has never been their intention, they have enjoyed the journey and the privilege of leading side-by-side. In September 2015, they became the Senior Pastors of Chapel Valley Church. Beyond her pastoral duties, Suzie serves as a chaplain in her city and loves providing spiritual support and comfort beyond the church walls.

Suzie and her husband, Jeremiah, have been married for 20 years and have three beautiful children Micah, Samantha, and Isaac.

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

Connect further with Suzie at https://chapelvalley.org/

Episode Credits:
Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams
Produced by Chad Garrison

#13: A Spectrum of Obedience | Living at Peace, Even If My Decisions Frustrate Others w/ Trey Abney

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Wed, 15 Feb 2023 13:00:00 GMT

"Ministry is never done, and I will disappoint people." In this candid conversation, Pastor and Leadership Coach Trey Abney, unpacks what it means and looks like practically to live and lead with an inner peace that is not influenced or effected by the uncertainty, the expectations or the drama that exists outside of you.

Guest Bio:
Trey Abney serves as the Senior Pastor of EQUIP Church. Trey is energized through life-coaching, teaching leadership, encouraging hurting pastors, and enabling church teams to regain ministry vision. He utilizes the Emotionally Healthy Leadership material to promote both personal and spiritual health. In addition, Trey is an adjunct professor at Life Pacific University.

Trey is married to Gretchen Abney and they have three young-adult children, Christian, Colin, and Caroline. Trey has served in ministry for over 25 years as a Church Planter, Inner-City Missionary, District Council member, District Elder and Regional leader in the Foursquare Church. His passion is for people to continually grow in their revelation of God’s grace, while understanding their God-given design and purpose. Trey graduated from Lee University with a B.A. in Bible and Theology and from Pentecostal Theological Seminary with a M.Div. His hobbies include fishing, cycling, watching Duke Basketball and University of Georgia Football.

You can connect with Trey further at www.equipchurch.online

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

Lion of War Series by Cliff Graham
Lead Yourself First by Raymond M. Kethledge & Michael S. Erwin

Episode Credits:
Audio Engineer & Editing by Brenton Hill
Produced by Chad Garrison

#27: Don’t Grow Weary | Elevating Self-Awareness for Longevity in Ministry feat. Bill Campbell

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Fri, 15 Mar 2024 05:00:00 GMT

Do I need to step back from ministry, or is it an opportunity to pull myself up by the bootstraps and keep going? In this episode, Pastor Bill Campbell shares how growing with intentionality in self-awareness has helped him distinguish between the two in the course of his decades in ministry. It’s a vulnerable conversation about learning from your mistakes, leading from healing instead of pain, and understanding clearly who you are as a leader to better lead others.

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

From Strength to Strength: Finding Success, Happiness, and Deep Purpose in the Second Half of Life by Arthur Brooks
Connect further with Bill at lifebridgechurch.com/about

Guest Bio:
Bill Campbell is the founding pastor of Life Bridge Church, Fort Wayne, IN. He and his wife, Grace, serve as Co-Pastors of the Life Bridge Family. Pastors Bill & Grace are gifted communicators and teachers, with a desire to make the principles of God's Word come alive, and empower people to reach their full potential in Christ. Additionally, Bill also serves as the Regional Pastor of the East Region of the Foursquare Central District. Bill and Grace enjoy living in Fort Wayne, and consider it a privilege to live out the purposes of God in leading Life Bridge and loving this great family on mission!

Episode Credits:
Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams
Produced by Chad Garrison

#63: Dudes With Limits | A Hiatus Announcement

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Wed, 09 Sep 2026 14:00:00 GMT

What do you do when ministry keeps getting in the way of your podcast about ministry? You let it drop for a season. So that's what this episode is about, we're taking a "pause" for the rest of the year, and letting you know how we got to this space.

Many thanks to our faithful listeners for your support and encouragement!

p.s. We also end the episode with a giant outtake for you to take on the road.

Episode Credits:

Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams

Produced by Chad Garrison

#49: Stand in the Gap | A Long Obedience in NextGen Ministry feat. Joe Martin

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Tue, 30 Sep 2025 05:00:00 GMT

There’s nothing harder than serving the NextGen Ministry. At least according to our guest, Pastor Joe Martin. In this episode, Joe shares how being a second generation NextGen focused Pastor isn’t just a role, but a continued obedience to God’s call in his life. Together we unpack the challenges and current trends of NextGen ministry, and discuss how getting back to the basics will reach the next generation. We’re bringin’ the serious ‘stache to this one, so listen up!

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

To connect further with Joe at lifebridgechurch.com/about
Living Fearless by Jamie Winship
Canoeing the Mountains by Todd Bolsinger

Guest Bio:

Joe Martin has served in NextGen ministry for over 12 years and loves to help young people realize their potential in Christ. Along with his wife Becca and their two girls, Kennedy & Madelyn...Joe moved to Fort Wayne, IN from the west coast to serve at Life Bridge Church as the NextGen pastor and The Bridge College Director. Joe also serves as a Regional NextGen Mobilizer in the Central District of Foursquare focused on connecting, collaborating, caring for, and celebrating all NextGen leaders in the central east region.

Joe holds a BA in Ministry & Leadership from Ohio Christian University and an MA in Strategic Leadership from LPU.

Episode Credits:

Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams

Produced by Chad Garrison

#60: Can We Call A Thing What It Is? | Getting Sideways w/ Honor feat. BrianJames McMahon

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Wed, 01 Jul 2026 05:00:00 GMT

For most, to “honor” simply means to not talk bad about someone else. And by doing so we have utilized language and practices of honor to avoid hard conversations. In this Brave Conversations episode with BrianJames McMahon, we break down how the original translation of the Hebrew word found in scripture for “honor” brings an element of honesty to the way we truly honor others. Because without honesty, you may not actually be honoring at all, and ultimately prevent healing altogether.

It’ll get sideways on us fast, but join us, cause we’re going someplace good!

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

Free Brave Conversations Webinar Registration
Church Well Co Website
BrianJames Therapy Website
Connect further with BrianJames at Instagram: @brianjamesmcmahon @church_well_co

Guest Bio:

Episode Credits:

Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams

Produced by Chad Garrison

#45: Resenting Easter | A Shop Talk About Ministry Holidays & Events

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Tue, 15 Jul 2025 05:00:00 GMT

Did that get your attention? No, this episode isn’t an anti-easter manifesto. It’s a roundtable discussion on the highs and lows, pros and cons and practical approaches to the ministry calendar–specifically the big holidays and ministry events. Let’s talk about the pain points that come along with these, and how we can experience fruitfulness in events without hating it.

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

Gloo Text Message Resource
Connect w/ Billy at http://innovationchurch.cc

Guest Bio:

Billy Holden has has served in ministry leadership for 20 years. Billy and his wife Mandy planted Innovation Church in Lafayette, IN in 2010. They have a total of 5 kids, 2 (twins) of which they adopted out of foster care. They have a huge heart for their community and serve local foster families through fostering, hosting foster agencies and through a foster closet ministry!

Episode Credits:

Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams

Produced by Chad Garrison

Episode Artwork Photo by Hassan yahia on Pexels

#23: Creativity is Vital | Flourishing Ministry Through Embracing Creatives feat. Bob Hunt

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Wed, 15 Nov 2023 16:00:00 GMT

When we allow ministry to become task driven, one of the easiest things to lose sight of is the creative expression that is inherent to our Creator. In this episode, we sit down for a fun conversation with minister and FMP Director, Bob Hunt. Bob unpacks for us the importance of creativity within ministry, how it affects everyone involved in the creative process, and how even those leaders who don't feel creative personally, can be--and find a new level of flourishing.

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

Creativity Workbook - Bob has graciously offered to send his Creativity Workbook free of charge to any leader interested! All you need to do is send him an email bhunt@foursquare.org along with your name, mailing address and mention the MWH podcast.
Connect with Bob further at bhunt@foursquare.org

Guest Bio:
Robert (Bob) Hunt has been the director of Foursquare Missions Press for 26 years. He has been involved in ministry for nearly 50 years with stints in the business world.

His ministry experience includes pastoring and youth pastoring in local churches. Founding a missions training school and short term sending (based on a YWAM model) in the local church. Also founding a comprehensive social services ministry involving multiple churches caring for the local impoverished and homeless individuals (and serving within an AIDS hospice).

Bob has an MDiv. from Talbot Theological Seminary (BIOLA). He has authored, co authored and ghost authored numerous books, booklets and pamphlets. He is currently working on a book on spiritual warfare with Dr. Jerry Stott and Dr. Leslie Keegel. He enjoys oil painting and old movies.

He is married to the love of his life, Heidi, an attorney, avid baseball fan and cancer survivor.

Episode Credits:
Audio Engineer & Editing by Brenton Hill
Produced by Chad Garrison

#35: It May Be the Last Time | Perspective & Joy for Hard Ministry feat. Zach & Caitlin Thomas

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Tue, 15 Oct 2024 05:00:00 GMT

How do you keep the “why” of ministry at the forefront of your ministry? Sometimes it takes a healthy dose of perspective of another leader’s reality. This episode with NextGen Leaders, Zach & Caitlin Thomas, may be one of those moments. In this interview they share how they’ve been able to see fruit in their inner city student ministries, the gospel burden every ministry leader should carry, and the importance of stepping back and saying, “But Look What God Did!” We also finally answer the debate of which city is actually the real “Little Chicago”.

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

Connect further with Zach & Caitlin at gviewkids@grandviewchurch.com, or piggca14@gmail.com and via Facebook: Zach, Caitlin

Guest Bio:
Pastors Zachary (Zach) and Caitlin (Cait) Thomas started dating in 2008 after they met at a county fair. In 2012, these high school sweethearts got married and began their life as husband and wife. God has richly blessed them with three beautiful children, Samuel (9), Daniel (6), and Gabriella (3). They also have several pets including two dogs, three chickens, two ducks, several fish, a turtle, and a leopard gecko.

Being born the son of a pastor, Zach grew up with a rich relationship with the Lord and was deeply connected to the church. Having always known that there was a call to pastoral ministry on his life, Zach officially assumed the role of Children’s Minister in August 2018, under the leadership of his father, Sr. Pastor, Dennis Thomas.

Cait’s path to pastoral ministry was not as direct as her husband’s. Unlike Zach, Cait grew up as an in the Catholic Church but lacked a true relationship with God. When she started dating Zach, he asked her to come to youth group and Sunday morning service with him at Grandview Church. During a Wednesday night youth service in November 2008, Cait gave her life to the Lord. Since 2010, she has faithfully served in both children’s and youth ministry at Grandview, as well as singing on the worship team and writing worship songs for their congregation. In May 2020, Cait officially became the Youth Minister at Grandview Church. She also serves in a bi-vocational role, splitting her time working a large health insurance company as well as the church.

In fall of 2020, both Zach and Cait became licensed ministers through the Foursquare Church, and they were ordained in March of 2023. The primary make-up of their ministry is inner-city outreach. A large majority of their students come from homes with food insecurities, socioeconomic struggles, addiction issues, imprisoned parents/guardians (or have faced jail-time themselves), single-parent homes, gang affiliation, and kids faced with being pulled from their homes by DCFS. While their ministry has many challenges, they love what they do, and they firmly believe that God has called them to this area to make a difference through the Power of Jesus. They passionately believe that to be an effective ministry, you must feed the body, the mind, and the heart/soul.

#57: You Can’t Declare “Safe” | Becoming Safe(r) feat. BrianJames McMahon

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Fri, 01 May 2026 05:00:00 GMT

We want to be safe people. We might think that we are safe people, and oftentimes we do become very safe for people. But pastoring is not a safe experience. In this episode we kick off our first Brave Conversations Episode in collaboration with Church Well Co, and BrianJames McMahon. Together we unpack the truth that just because we say “this is a safe space” within relationship, it does not necessarily mean others automatically feel safe. Let's discover what the journey to “Becoming Safe(r)” really means in our life and leadership.

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

Church Well Co Website
BrianJames Therapy Website
https://churchwell.co/articles/safe-communities
Connect further with BrianJames at Instagram: @brianjamesmcmahon @church_well_co

Guest Bio:

Episode Credits:

Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams

Produced by Chad Garrison

#9:Ministry Without Hating, ME? | Getting Past Leader Insecurity & Self-Loathing w/ Lindsay Garrison

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Tue, 25 Oct 2022 12:00:00 GMT

Most ministry leaders will say have some sense of "calling" they can point to for being in the ministry they are serving. But in pursuing wholeness, leaders need to go beyond, or beneath their call and consider less holy reasons for going into ministry.

In this episode pastor and licensed therapist, Lindsay Garrison, addresses the root of many insecurities that ministry leaders wrestle with, and shares how she has learned to move beyond self-loathing and embrace her true calling.

Guest Bio:
Lindsay Garrison graduated from the University of Nevada Las Vegas in 2006 with a M.S. degree in Counseling and is a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist. Lindsay also serves as a Pastor at Springs of Life in Cedar Rapids, IA as a Pastoral Counselor & in Leader Care capacities. Lindsay has been married to her husband, Chad, since 2004 and shares three amazing kids.

Lindsay's passion is working with individuals and couples in ministry leadership, helping them to overcome many of life’s challenges and discovering truth as it pertains to their singleness or partnership, their identities and calling.

If you'd like to connect further with Lindsay, you can visit odysseyhaven.com or email her at lindsay@springscr.church.

#7: Are you, Ok? | Lessons Wisdom Learned From My 1st Year in Charge of Everything w/ Gary Roca

Chad Garrison & Brenton Hill — Tue, 20 Sep 2022 12:00:00 GMT

Taking the reins of leadership in ministry, especially when it's for the first time, can be quite a challenge. Is it possible in the midst of the messiness of starting a new ministry leadership assignment to stay sane?

In this episode, we sit down with Pastor Gary Roca to debrief with him on completing his first year of leading as a Senior Pastor, for the first time for him in ministry. Through the highs, lows and navigating church cultural changes, Gary has learned some profound lessons, in a short amount of time, that ministry leaders of all types will find applicable.

Guest Bio:
Gary Roca grew up in Las Vegas and pursued the call of ministry the Lord placed on his heart while attending a summer camp. He has been leading in the local church for over 10 years as a worship leader, NextGen pastor, associate pastor, and campus pastor. Gary and his wife, Bethany, have been leading NextGen camps for the past 5 years. He recently became the senior pastor of the Genoa Foursquare Church in northern Illinois. Gary and Bethany have 3 wonderful little girls who love knowing and serving people!

If you'd like to connect further with Gary, you can do so by clicking here.