Earlier this week, New Jersey lawmakers unanimously passed the Garden State Plug-In Solar Act, a bill that would legalize plug-in (balcony) solar across the state.

If signed by Gov. Mikie Sherrill, the law will let residents use systems up to 1,200 watts (roughly 3 modern solar panels) that plug into a standard outlet and lower electric bills, without needing a local permit or utility approval first.

The bill also protects access for renters, condo owners, and people in apartments by blocking landlords, HOAs, and condo boards from banning plug-in or balcony solar outright, though they can still set reasonable rules for size and placement.

Once she signs it, the new rules will go into effect in January of 2027.

This Week In Solar is always brought to you by Exact Solar, your locally owned, twenty-year-old solar installer for Pennsylvania and New Jersey. And starting today, we have a special bonus for This Week In Solar Listeners.

For a limited time (July 1st-August 31st, 2026), we’ll pay you $1000 if you refer a friend to us and they go solar.

(We only install in New Jersey and Pennsylvania, so please do not refer anyone outside those states).

All you have to do is:

1. Click the “Refer a Friend and Earn $1000” button below.
2. Fill in your information (we need your address to mail you a check if your friend goes solar).
3. Select Aaron Nichols as the sales representative.
4. Add your friend’s name, address, and contact information.
5. Get a $1000 check mailed to you if your friend goes solar with us!

Refer a Friend and Earn $1000

We’d love to pay you $1000 if you refer a friend to us and they go solar (We only install in New Jersey and Pennsylvania, so please do not refer anyone outside those states).

All you have to do is:

1. Click the “Earn $1000” button below.
2. Fill in your information (we need your address to mail you a check if your friend goes solar).
3. Select Aaron Nichols as the sales representative.
4. Add your friend’s name and address.
5. Get a $1000 check mailed to you if your friend goes solar with us!

   Refer a Friend and Earn $1000

Aaron Nichols talks with Meghan Wood, CEO and co-founder of Raya Power, the first plug-and-play solar and battery appliance.

Listen to this episode on:

• YouTube
• Apple Podcasts
• Spotify

Connect with Meghan: Find her on LinkedIn, visit her website at rayapower.com, or follow the Raya Power Instagram account for behind-the-scenes content.

Expect to Learn

• Why treating solar like a piece of IKEA furniture or a standard household fridge removes the need for homeownership, roof repairs, and long construction timelines (which have kept thousands of people out of the solar market).
• How Raya’s system connects directly to essential household loads (like a fridge or Wi-Fi) without backfeeding the grid, completely sidestepping the need for interconnection agreements and electrical permits.
• Why Puerto Rico is the perfect primary market and testing ground for Raya (think frequent outages, high electricity rates, and abundant sunshine).

Quotes from the Episode

“When we thought of how can we actually get this [solar power] to more people, we thought ‘this needs to be an appliance.’ It needs to be something that’s as simple as getting a fridge or a table at IKEA or your wifi. Something as a renter you would get normally, something you could replace without too many hurdles.”

— Meghan Wood

“80 years from now, it’d be really cool if it was like, ‘of course my home is self-powered and that’s like the norm,’ not a contentious fighting point.”

— Meghan Wood

Earlier this year, Elon Musk set an aggressive goal for Tesla and SpaceX: to build 100 gigawatts (GW) of annual solar manufacturing capacity in the United States within the next three years. The plan’s moving forward, but there’s a lot to overcome.

You can listen to this episode here, or on:

* Substack

* YouTube

* Apple Podcasts

* Spotify

If you’ve learned something from This Week In Solar and you’d like to learn more, drop your email below, and we’ll keep sending you free solar news!

Why it Matters:

To put this into perspective, the entire U.S. solar industry added 43.2 GW of capacity in 2025, and America’s largest domestic manufacturer, First Solar, projects adding 18 GW of capacity by 2027.

If successful, Tesla alone would more than double the entire country’s domestic solar manufacturing capacity.

The center of this planned expansion is a massive new factory under development in Brookshire, Texas, right next to Tesla’s existing Megapack Megafactory.

Here’s where it gets really interesting. Normally, solar panels that are “manufactured” in the U.S. are actually just “assembled” in the U.S.

Making a solar panel is a multi-step process that starts with raw polysilicon that’s turned into ingots, wafers, solar cells, and finally the finished module.

Because building solar cell manufacturing lines requires massive capital investments, highly specialized cleanroom environments, and complex chemical processing, U.S. companies don’t generally manufacture all the components.

Instead, they import ready-made photovoltaic cells (overwhelmingly made by Chinese manufacturers or their subsidiaries in Southeast Asia) and perform only the final mechanical assembly in America.

This final stage involves soldering the imported cells together, sealing them between protective glass and a backsheet, and framing them in aluminum.

Tesla is designing this factory to be completely vertically integrated. That means the process will include:

* Ingot growth and wafer slicing

* Photovoltaic (PV) cell production

* Finished module and panel assembly

While the surging electricity demand from AI data centers and electrification makes the timing perfect, there are a few logistical issues to overcome:

* Supply Chain & Sourcing: Tesla is reportedly spending nearly $3 billion to purchase cell manufacturing equipment from top Chinese suppliers. However, there are risks, including U.S. Section 232 tariffs on raw materials like polysilicon, and potential Chinese export restrictions on solar tech.

* Massive Power Demands: Operating 100 GW of shared cell and module manufacturing will require up to 1,200 MW of power. The industrial transformer market faces two-year wait times, but Tesla hopes to bypass this by manufacturing its own transformers.

* Space and Labor Constraints: Producing 100 GW will require an estimated 43 million square feet of factory space (four times the size of Tesla’s Gigafactory Texas) and an influx of roughly 22,000 workers (I mean, hey, it’s more jobs than a data center).

Hitting 100 GW by 2028 is highly improbable. But Elon Musk is famous for convincing investors he can do the impossible, and then finding ways to pull it off.

If Tesla successfully executes even a third of this plan in the next three years, they’ll be a dominant force in the American solar energy market. By manufacturing the panels, the inverters, the home batteries (Powerwall), and utility-scale storage (Megapack), Tesla could offer home and business owners a domestically manufactured “solar energy system in a box” that doesn’t need any non-Tesla components.

It could also make solar even more cost-effective for anyone who invests in a solar energy system with a reputable, locally-owned company like Exact Solar.

Sources:

Assessing Elon Musk’s massive 100 GW solar ambitions

Tesla is building a massive Texas solar factory in its clearest push yet for 100 GW

How Tesla’s Ambitious Solar Plans Could Soon Power the Stock Higher

What’s newThe Trump administration, in collaboration with the Bureau of Industry and Security, the Office of Strategic Industries and Economic Security, and the Commerce Department, launched a Section 232 investigation into whether imported polysilicon and its downstream products threaten national security. 

The inquiry (which was quietly initiated on July 1, but not revealed until July 14) could let the President impose new tariffs on top of the existing 50% Section 301 duties on Chinese materials.

Why it matters

Polysilicon is the raw material for close to  95 % of solar panels and key semiconductor wafers.

Beijing‑backed producers now hold roughly 93 % of global polysilicon capacity. It’s unlikely that U.S.-based polysilicon suppliers could meet sudden “Buy American” demand.

The Department of Commerce has asked for public comments on:

* How much polysilicon (and related materials) the U.S. market needs today and is likely to need in the future

* Whether factories on American soil can cover that demand

* How heavily U.S. buyers rely on overseas suppliers

* Risks that come from importing from only a few foreign sources

* The potential threat of foreign governments curbing exports and using supply control as economic leverage

* What it would take to scale up domestic polysilicon production and lessen dependence on imports

Stakeholders have until mid‑August to submit comments and data.

House GOP Spending Bill Cuts Renewables, Shifts Cash to Nuclear & Fossil R&D

What’s newHouse appropriators released their fiscal 2026 Energy‑Water budget that cuts DOE discretionary funding by $1.4 billion, with a 46 % hit to the Office of Energy Efficiency & Renewable Energy and zero dollars allocated for solar and wind R&D.

Why it matters

The new guidelines scrap programs from the Inflation Reduction Act designed to fund PV cost‑curve research, offshore wind, building efficiency, and electric‑vehicle infrastructure.

That funding is rerouted to civilian nuclear, advanced reactor fuel, and fossil‑generation R&D, in line with President Trump’s agenda to “restore firm baseload power.”

The Office of Grid Deployment and the Office of Electricity each see double‑digit cuts, even as utilities warn of record load growth from AI data centers.

“I am proud that, in tight fiscal times where every dollar spent must be scrutinized, the Fiscal Year 2026 Energy and Water Development appropriations bill makes historic investments in our national security and nuclear deterrent, restores American energy production, and stops wasteful, unnecessary spending.”

- Chuck Fleischmann (R-Tenn), House Energy and Water Development Appropriations Subcommittee Chair

After the subcommittee markup on July 15, the bill must square with the Senate’s version, which is yet to be released.

PA’s Solar‑for‑Schools Faces Non-Renewal

What’s newPennsylvania’s Solar for Schools program (launched with $25 million last year and already oversubscribed) risks losing the federal 30 % IRA credit and may be left unfunded in the state’s delayed budget.

Why it matters

The Trump Administration’s new tax law lets districts claim the credit only if construction starts by July 2026 or the array is online by the end of 2027.

Forty‑five entities have secured $22.5 million for 73 arrays from Erie to Philadelphia. Applications for solar for schools funds were 3 to 1 in the first round.

Pennsylvania Senate GOP leader Joe Pittman has questioned whether the $25 million in funding should be renewed. House Democrats argue the grants cut utility bills and property‑tax pressure for schools, freeing up funding that can be put to better use for internal programs.

Districts like Upper Darby (with six projects in the works totaling $2.3 million) and Tunkhannock (with eight projects totaling $1.7 million) may downsize or abandon installations if they’re unable to claim the tax credits.

School leaders and interested citizens must contact representatives to ensure that this funding is renewed.

Sources:

US launches new tariff investigation into imported polysilicon

Trump starts “weaponization” of polysilicon investigation

House Republicans propose energy budget that would further slash funding for renewables

House releases Energy-Water spending bill with deep cuts - E&E News by POLITICO

A popular, bipartisan solar program to save Pennsylvania schools on energy costs might soon go dark

When we’re plugged into the news cycle, it can be easy to get angry about something and then forget it. Especially since so much is coming at us daily, and so much news isn’t related to clean energy.

So I’ve decided to take today’s episode to do a recap of policies that have been passed since January that affect the solar industry.

If I’ve missed anything, please let me know in the comments!

January 20 (Inauguration Day)

President Trump signed two executive orders on his first day in office:

* Declaring a National Energy Emergency

* Unleashing American Energy

The National Energy Emergency order declared high energy prices and state-level climate policies a national security threat, giving federal agencies broad emergency powers to fast-track energy projects, bypass environmental reviews (under NEPA, Clean Water Act, and Endangered Species Act), and even use eminent domain or the Defense Production Act to accelerate infrastructure.

The Unleashing American Energy order revoked nearly every Biden-era climate and clean energy directive, halted Inflation Reduction Act funding (including solar and EV programs), dismantled the social cost of carbon, and directed agencies to rescind any rules that “burden” domestic energy development.

Neither one mentioned solar specifically, but they set the stage for this administration’s policies by excluding solar and wind from the definition of “energy.”

Sec. 8. Definitions. For purposes of this order, the following definitions shall apply:

(a) The term “energy” or “energy resources” means crude oil, natural gas, lease condensates, natural gas liquids, refined petroleum products, uranium, coal, biofuels, geothermal heat, the kinetic movement of flowing water, and critical minerals, as defined by 30 U.S.C. 1606 (a)(3).

February 5th

The administration froze funding for the EPA’s $7 billion Solar for All program.

Solar for All was designed to help low-income households go solar through grants and loans, thereby lowering their electricity bills.

Grant recipients, including nonprofits like GRID Alternatives and several states, were abruptly notified that reimbursements were suspended and the funding portal was shut down, leaving hundreds of millions of dollars in approved projects in limbo.

The freeze stemmed from President Trump’s Unleashing American Energy executive order, which directed agencies to halt climate-related IRA and infrastructure law spending while prioritizing fossil fuel development

April 8th

President Trump signed another Executive Order:

PROTECTING AMERICAN ENERGY FROM STATE OVERREACH

Again, this Executive Order omitted solar and wind from the list of energy-generating resources:

My Administration is committed to unleashing American energy, especially through the removal of all illegitimate impediments to the identification, development, siting, production, investment in, or use of domestic energy resources — particularly oil, natural gas, coal, hydropower, geothermal, biofuel, critical mineral, and nuclear energy resources.

This executive order directs the Department of Justice to challenge and overturn state and local laws that impose climate-related restrictions on energy production.

It specifically targets policies like carbon caps, climate liability lawsuits, environmental justice rules, and renewable energy standards that the administration views as “burdensome” or “ideologically motivated.”

While the order is framed as protecting fossil fuels, it could directly harm solar deployment. It’s designed to favor fossil fuels by stripping states of their ability to set climate or renewable energy goals.

May 20th

Steep tariffs on imported solar panels go into effect:

In May 2025, the U.S. International Trade Commission finalized a decision to impose steep antidumping and countervailing duties on solar cells and panels imported from Cambodia, Malaysia, Thailand, and Vietnam.

They ruled that the U.S. industry has been harmed by unfairly cheap imports. The tariffs range from 14% to over 3,500% depending on the country and manufacturer.

July 4

One Big Beautiful Bill Act (OBBBA) signed.

The bill phases out clean energy incentives, including:

* Residential Investment Tax Credit (ITC, Section 25D)Repeals the 30% federal tax credit for homeowners who install rooftop solar, phasing it out completely after December 31, 2025.

* Commercial Investment Tax Credit (ITC, Section 48E)Eliminates the technology-neutral ITC for businesses, schools, nonprofits, and other entities investing in solar systems unless projects begin physical construction before July 4, 2026.

* Production Tax Credit (PTC, Section 45Y)Ends the technology-neutral PTC, which rewarded utility-scale solar (and wind) projects for generating power.

* Domestic Content Bonus CreditRemoves the 10% bonus adder for projects using U.S.-made solar panels, inverters, and other components, weakening federal support for domestic solar manufacturing.

* Low-Income & Energy Community AddersCancels the 10% bonus credits for projects located in low-income communities or former fossil-fuel-dependent regions.

* Direct Pay & Transferability (by proxy) Essentially repeals the ability for tax-exempt entities (like schools, hospitals, municipalities, and tribes) to receive credits as cash payments, and blocks credit transferability between companies.

July 7th

President Trump Signs the Executive Order Ending Market Distorting Subsidies for Unreliable, Foreign-Controlled Energy Sources

There were several Republican Members of Congress who only agreed to sign Trump’s “One Big, Beautiful Bill Act” if he promised to make it harder for developers to move clean energy projects forward. So he signed this Executive Order days after the bill was passed.

The order directs the Treasury Department to terminate production and investment tax credits for clean electricity, and the Interior Department to strip away any regulatory “preferential treatment” for renewables compared to fossil fuels and nuclear.

July 17

The Interior Department moved to dismantle what it called “regulatory favoritism” for wind and solar.

The new policy ended right-of-way and capacity fee discounts for renewable projects, imposed extra political oversight by requiring the Secretary’s office to review all approvals, and aligned with Trump’s earlier order eliminating renewable tax credits.

Officials framed the change as correcting unfair advantages granted under Biden, while boosting coal, gas, and nuclear.

August 1

The Bureau of Land Management released guidance targeting solar and wind projects on federal lands, citing the Department of the Interior’s decision to end “preferential treatment for unreliable, subsidy-dependent wind and solar energy.”

They ended long-standing right-of-way and megawatt capacity fee discounts, which had helped lower costs for developers leasing public lands for renewable projects.

The announcement also confirmed that all solar and wind project decisions under BLM’s jurisdiction would undergo elevated review by the Secretary’s office.

This action raises the cost of siting projects on federal land and makes the approval process far more uncertain.

August 8

EPA officially moves to end Solar for All, which, as previously mentioned, offered solar access to low-income households

The program, created under the Biden administration, was part of the Greenhouse Gas Reduction Fund and aimed to bring rooftop solar, community solar, and battery storage to more than 900,000 households.

In the official announcement on Twitter, Zeldin called the program a “boondoggle.”

August 15

The Treasury Department and IRS issued Notice 2025-42, providing updated guidance on how renewable energy projects can qualify for the Investment Tax Credits as they’re being phased out.

The rule eliminates the 5% “safe harbor” test that previously allowed developers to lock in eligibility by spending just 5% of project costs before the construction deadline.

Projects must now satisfy the “physical work test” to qualify as having “begun construction.” That means developers must start actual, continuous, significant physical work before deadlines, not just spend money. Developers can no longer rely on pre-purchased equipment or minimal upfront costs to secure credits.

Projects stuck in permitting or interconnection queues are now at higher risk of missing eligibility.

August 18

The U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA), under Agriculture Secretary Brooke Rollins, announced that it will no longer support solar or wind projects on productive agricultural land, effectively ending the Rural Energy for America Program (REAP) support for solar farms.

They declared that funding and loan guarantees will no longer be available for solar projects on agricultural land.

Governors from 11 states across the mid-Atlantic and Midwest are fed up with PJM, the non-profit entity that manages the region’s electricity grid. PJM’s capacity auctions (the system that pays power plants to promise future supply) have hit record highs two years in a row.

At a multi-state summit in Philadelphia to address concerns over PJM, Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro warned that PJM has “months, not years” to reform.

If they don’t see change, Pennsylvania and possibly other states could take the extraordinary step of pulling their utilities out of PJM altogether. The demands from state governors include:

* Formal seats for states in PJM’s governance structure.

* Faster interconnection for new energy projects.

* A stronger focus on consumer costs in PJM’s decision-making.

* Transparency in how capacity and transmission costs are set.

Why It Matters

PJM’s Capacity Auction is one of the major contributing factors to consumers seeing double-digit bill increases last summer.

Because of these increases, in the last two years, hundreds of thousands of people across the country (especially in PJM’s 13-state region that includes PA and NJ) have heard of PJM Interconnection for the first time as bills have shot up.

State Governors in PJM’s region argue that PJM’s slow approval of new projects and its closed governance structure are making things worse.

“We need states to have more of a say in how PJM operates. We need to move more quickly on these energy-producing projects, and we’ve got to hold down costs. If PJM cannot do that, then Pennsylvania will look to go it alone…. If PJM refuses to change, we will be forced to go in a different direction. That is not a path that I am eager to chart, but I am not willing to stand idly by and let PJM dictate our future… “We can produce enough energy for us, and we can produce enough energy at a far quicker rate than PJM is able to right now.”

- PA Governor Josh Shapiro

So What is PJM, and What is a Capacity Auction?

PJM Interconnection is the largest regional transmission organization (RTO) in the United States, managing electricity for more than 67 million people across 13 states and Washington, D.C.

They cover Illinois to the Atlantic coast and from Michigan down into Virginia and North Carolina. Headquartered outside Philadelphia, PJM has been coordinating electricity flow for nearly a century.

They essentially do two things:

* They act as the air traffic controller of the grid. PJM directs electricity from generators to utilities, who then deliver it to homes and businesses.

* They run the wholesale markets where utilities buy electricity. Those markets determine which power plants operate, how new projects connect, and how much electricity ultimately costs.

One of its most important tools is the capacity auction. In this auction, PJM looks several years ahead and pays power plants simply to promise they’ll be available in the future.

This guarantees electricity will be available and reliable during times of peak demand, like summer heat waves or winter storms. Nearly a quarter of the charges on monthly bills in PJM states come from capacity payments alone.

The Problem

Unlike other regional grids, states have no formal role in PJM’s governance, a gap that state governors are now demanding be fixed.

PJM’s decisions go far beyond reliability. They set many rules relating to how to value renewables, storage, or demand response compared to gas and coal; how to allocate the cost of transmission upgrades across states, and how it forecast future demand.

Unsurprisingly, states want more of a voice in that process than they’ve previously had.

How PJM’s Auction Has Driven Up Bills

For years, PJM’s markets kept prices relatively steady. But in the last two years, we’ve seen record increases in the region.

Capacity auction prices, once as low as $30 per megawatt-day, jumped to around $270 in 2024 and then cleared even higher in 2025, right at a $329 price cap negotiated after Pennsylvania filed a complaint in 2024.

In simple terms, that’s eight to ten times higher than typical levels. Households across their 13-state region have seen double-digit percentage increases on their power bills, with utilities warning of more hikes in 2026.

There are several reasons for this:

* PJM began tightening how it credits renewables and storage for reliability, meaning 100 megawatts of solar might only count as 8–10 megawatts of dependable supply.

* At the same time, demand exploded, led by the AI and data center boom centered in Northern Virginia but spreading to Pennsylvania, Ohio, and beyond.

* Clogged interconnection queues, aging gas plants, and supply chain problems for new natural gas turbines have all contributed as well.

* New solar, wind, and battery projects wait years in line to connect to PJM’s grid. That means cheaper resources can’t enter the market quickly enough, keeping supply tight and prices high.

PJM’s CEO has said the organization is “open to discussions” but warned reforms could “take some time.”

There are a lot of unknowns that need to be answered about what it would look like if states wanted to strike out on their own. But the fact that governors are even considering it shows that this is a crisis.

Where Solar Fits Into The Puzzle

PJM’s rules make it harder for solar to show its full value. In recent capacity auctions, PJM tightened the way it credits renewable energy toward reliability.

A solar project that can generate 100 megawatts of electricity is only counted as 8–10 megawatts of dependable capacity because PJM assumes it won’t always be producing at peak times. This conservative math means it takes far more renewable bids to meet the region’s demand curve, which drives auction prices higher.

But because it’s so fast to deploy, solar is the fastest-growing and most affordable source of new energy in PJM’s territory.

Solar is a way to bring new supply online quickly, lower long-term costs, and reduce reliance on older coal and gas plants that depend heavily on capacity revenues to survive.

Governors are frustrated that PJM’s slow approval process leaves new solar projects stuck in interconnection queues for years, delaying their ability to compete and drive down prices.

In short, families across the PJM region are seeing higher bills partly because solar and other clean energy projects aren’t being connected fast enough.

Governor Shapiro has argued that because Pennsylvania is a net energy producer, it can host new energy-hungry industries and expand renewables like solar, but only if PJM clears the backlog and lets solar projects move forward.

Under the current rules, the value solar provides is discounted, its growth is slowed, and the region remains more dependent on older, more expensive generation. Most Governors pressing PJM for reform see solar as central to both cutting bills and meeting the demand surge from AI and electrification.

Sources:

PJM Explained | NRDC

PJM and the capacity crunch | Latitude Media

Pennsylvania leaving regional electricity grid is still on the table, Shapiro says

Pennsylvania Threatens to Go ‘Own Way’ If Grid Won’t Change

Soaring Power Bills in Largest US Grid Pose Risk for Republicans - Bloomberg

Governors push PJM to hold down power costs - E&E News by POLITICO

States threaten to leave PJM without expanded role in grid operator | Utility Dive

On January 27th, Maryland Governor Wes Moore announced the “Lower Bills and Local Power Act” (LBLPA), a legislative package designed to provide immediate cash relief to families while aggressively modernizing the state’s power grid.

Here’s what it would do at the state level:

* Solar financing: A new $70 million “Gap Financing Program” will fund local solar and storage projects, explicitly designed to offset cuts to federal Investment Tax Credits under the Trump administration.

* Cash relief: The bill allocates $100 million for a new round of direct utility bill rebates for families, scheduled to hit this fall. This is on top of $200 million in electricity bill rebates that Maryland started sending out to all Maryland ratepayers last year.

* Highway power: The state is putting $10 million toward using existing highway rights-of-way for new high-voltage lines and battery storage, allowing them to bypass complex private land acquisition deals.

Why it matters:

* They’re filling the federal gap: With federal clean energy support shrinking, Maryland is stepping in with state funds (reinvested from utility compliance payments) to keep local solar and storage on track.

* They’re cutting red tape: By focusing on highway rights-of-way and existing state-owned lines, the administration can deploy desperately needed infrastructure faster than traditional permitting will allow.

* They’re defending consumers: The bill frames energy policy as a housing affordability issue. By cutting utility profit incentives and forcing participation in regional planning, the state estimates it could save ratepayers tens of millions of dollars.

What he’s saying:

“Energy policy is about more than megawatts and transmission corridors. It is about whether Maryland families can afford to live in their homes.”

- Wes Moore

11.2 Megawatts of New Community Solar To Be Built in Delaware

What’s new:

TurningPoint Energy (TPE) and Standard Solar announced a new partnership on Jan. 27 to build two major community solar projects in Delaware that will offer clean energy access to nearly 1,700 homes.

Here’s what you should know:

* The projects: The collaboration will deliver 11.2 MW of power across Harrington, Delaware. Both projects feature single-axis tracker systems and are scheduled for completion in 2027.

* Charitable giving: As part of the deal, TPE is donating $40,000 to local non-profits in the host counties.

Why it matters:

* It’s a statewide commitment: This move continues TPE’s 2022 pledge to invest over $100 million in Delaware’s energy infrastructure.

* They’re offering energy equity: The projects are designed to lower electricity bills for subscribers who cannot install panels themselves (like renters), with 15% of bill savings specifically reserved for low-income customers.

* It’s a state policy win: Standard Solar cited Delaware’s “forward-looking” Renewable Portfolio Standard as a key driver for the investment, proving that state-level policy continues to attract national capital even as the federal administration de-prioritizes solar development.

Musk Says Cost of Deploying Solar in U.S. ‘Artificially High.’

What’s new:

Elon Musk used his debut at the World Economic Forum in Davos to argue that solar energy is the critical bottleneck preventing an AI-driven economic boom.

Here’s an overview of his statement:

* His 100GW target: Musk announced that Tesla and SpaceX are independently working to build up to 100 gigawatts per year of solar manufacturing capacity within the United States.

* Critique of tariffs: Musk slammed US solar tariffs, arguing they make the cost of deploying clean energy “artificially high” at a time when electricity is desperately needed.

* How much solar he believes we need: Musk reiterated his long-standing belief that roughly 100 by 100 miles of solar panels in a corner of Nevada or New Mexico could power the entire United States.

Why it matters:

* We’re headed for an AI energy crunch: Musk warned that the world is approaching a hard limit where “we’re very soon going to be producing more chips than we can turn on.”

* Domestic Pivot: By targeting 100GW of domestic manufacturing, Musk is attempting to bypass the tariff barriers he criticized.

In His Words:

“Unfortunately, the tariff barriers for solar are extremely high, and that makes the economics of deploying solar artificially high.”

- Elon Musk

Sources:

Maryland introduces legislation to curb energy costs, spur solar development

Governor Moore Announces the Lower Bills and Local Power Act to Combat Rising Utility Costs and Deploy Affordable Local Energy

Standard Solar, TurningPoint Energy spearhead Delaware community solar portfolio

TurningPoint Energy and Standard Solar Partner to Build Two Delaware Community Solar Projects, Totaling 11.2 MW

In Davos debut, Musk says US tariffs make solar power a challenge

Elon Musk at Davos 2026: why technology could shape a more ‘abundant future’

Spenser Meeks is the Founder and Principal Consultant at Apex Presentations, where he’s helped more than 1000 clean energy leaders get everything they can out of their speaking engagements.

Going to be at RE+ on September 8th? He’s moderating a panel on storytelling. Pack the seats.

If you like today’s episode, DM him on LinkedIn.

Expect to learn:

* Why storytelling (not statistics) moves audiences, especially in B2B.

* How technical founders and engineers can break the “curse of knowledge” and make their ideas emotionally engaging to a wide audience.

* Why we should stay optimistic post Inflation Reduction Act.

You can listen to this episode here, or on:

* YouTube

* Apple Podcasts

* Spotify

Transcript:

Aaron Nichols:Hello everyone and welcome back to this week in solar. I'm your host Aaron Nichols, the research and policy specialist here at Exact Solar in Newtown, Pennsylvania.And before we get to today's guests, I wanted to say that today's episode is brought to you by solar in a really interesting way.I'm actually on a road trip and I'm recording this from the back of my truck. And none of this would be possible without solar energy.I have a 200 watt solar panel sitting out in the field that's powering a battery bank that is powering a starlink.And because of that, I'm able to work on the road. So it really is. And let me lead in a little bit with today's guest.My friend, Spencer Meeks, who I'm very excited to have as one of the first people I'm interviewing on this week in solar, has trained more than 1,000 clean energy speakers.And we have similar opinions and we've commiserated together a lot on how we think that the industry leans way too hard on technical information and not hard enough on storytelling.And I'll let you tell him more or I'll let him tell you more about himself as we go on, but I guess the first question I want to ask you Spencer is the reason that we decided to do this series is because we're obviously going to be moving forward in a post-inflation reduction act world.And as someone who has worked with more than a thousand leaders in this space, What do you think clean energy needs as we move forward?

Spenser Meeks:Well, first off, thanks for having me. I'm really excited for the conversation in general today. But I think that there's a lot of room for optimism still.What the clean energy industry needs to realize more than anything else is that we were growing and thriving before the IRA was a thing.Now, that doesn't mean that it's not a bad thing the significant portions of it are under attack and getting repealed or otherwise being impacted.But what does buoy me here is that this industry is populated largely by grizzled veterans that have been up and down the solar coaster a couple of times.And this might be the first time for some people to run into this amount of antagonism from the federal level.But it is not unprecedented. Right? Yeah. So there there are reasons to be optimistic and there are reasons to double down and really boo yourself by the fact that there are a large number of people that are in a similar context as you are and there's every reason to continue to push into fight and to grow this industry because it is a necessity not a nice to have right there's economics driving this more than anything else, it's not just an environmental argument that's to be had.And that's really been shown through the fact that some of these portions, these repeals have been softened significantly compared to what they originally proposed to be.I know that that's, you know, maybe a little bit too much cup half full for some people to say that, but it can always be worse.And there are provisions that are still going to be able to support this industry and ways to fight back in a more meaningful way.So when it comes to application, just leaning off of my own subject matter expertise, I think messaging has a lot to do with how we recover from this and continue to grow the impact and influence of this industry.

Aaron Nichols:Yeah, man, it's really, it's been so amazing to me since I joined the solar industry just a little under two years ago, seriously, just how many veterans I've met that are basically like, they've been in it for more than 10 years, they're all best friends, their godparents to each other's children and I think that's kind of that closeness forged in the fires of war.

Spenser Meeks:Yes, that is very much it. What is it? A trauma bonding, right? Yeah, definitely. So it doesn't mean that what we're going through right now isn't terrible. It doesn't mean that it's not, it's completely unjustified.It's going to impact consumers, you know, expenses in a very concrete way on in the very individualistic way, especially in red counties and states, more than anywhere else.It's on, I think, a lot of the policy leaders to really continue to highlight those realities, so that when we're electing officials on where we're advocating for what our needs are as a community, federally, state-wise, locally, that we stay closely tied to, like, what are those impacts, you know, on an individual level.Sometimes, and this is maybe pralling into a later portion of the conversation here, but oftentimes, what I think trips us off more than anything else is focusing on being right and focusing on high level stats that show an aggregate how everything thing is correct and that we need to do what our recommendations are.Frequently, studies have shown that the most important impactful thing that you can do when talking about an initiative that you care about is find a case study, a specific instance where something went particularly well, perhaps in an unexpected way, and making it human scale.What happens to an individual? What happened to a single family? What happened to a single company? How many jobs were affected, how many families were affected, and what do that mean for them?Because of course we all experience our lives as individuals. So it's not surprising to find that stories about individuals are a lot easier to put ourselves into that context and relate to them.

Aaron Nichols:Absolutely, and that's something that a lot of nonprofits will talk about as well. They'll show that they get higher donations if they show one suffering child rather than five.It's really interesting how as humans we want to help, we want to help solve a small problem. And as soon as the problem starts to feel bigger and bigger and bigger, we either start to feel helpless or we spin off a conspiracy on why it is the way it is.Sure. Oh, sorry, go ahead. Well, yeah, I'm particularly interested in how a lot of people who are into clean energy are also very into data and logic and science, which makes a lot of sense, but you can't fight emotion in with data.It just doesn't seem to be the way things work, but you do see a lot of discourse online, on social media, on LinkedIn, on Twitter, where people who are into clean energy are fighting people who say, windmills cause cancer by saying, well, here's a graph that shows that that's not true.And obviously that never works. So I'm interested in, with you as a messaging expert, and someone who's worked to help people who are technically minded, refine their messaging, ground them in emotion, do all of those things, what do we need to do as companies, as leaders, as we're moving forward?

Spenser Meeks:Well, I want to come back to something, you just said that it was kind of interesting with like, hey, you know, windmills cause cancer, here's a graph.I want to say I agree it is ineffective with that individual who says windmills cause cancer to show them a graph.Could be that like your audience really isn't trying to convince that individual as much as maybe the other people that are watching or reading that discourse that it can help to kind of dismiss that approach as kind of inane.Now that has a place and I'm not going to be here to give you a 401 on how to deal with internet trolls.The best way to deal with internet trolls is typically like just don't feed trolls and they typically die. Ignore them or block them or otherwise just say like okay, that's kind of interesting.Here's a graph to interact, then like make your point and then bail because the reason that they're there is primarily to try your energy as much as possible and to distract from the initiatives that you're trying to highlight the import of.So I just wanted to make that quick aside before we came back to the information overload, perhaps, that we tend to use in the industry.

And I guess to spin off on that a little bit before I let you go again, I think there is.There is obviously benefit to taking the high road and sometimes just letting someone show you how crazy they are and then you just being calm and rational by comparison can also be very powerful.So I do want to make sure that I-

Aaron Nichols:100 percent.

Spenser Meeks:Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. As soon as you start frothing at the mouth and getting agitated and angry, they've already won.Right. So the best thing that we can do is keep our heads as best as we can and to not engage when we're getting a little too activated in that way.

Aaron Nichols:Absolutely. Yeah, the technical piece is really fascinating, right? Cause I think a lot of people are drawn towards using facts and figures and data to make their points in this industry.And part because the history of how this industry has grown. This, you know, credit where credit’s due. Most of the companies existed, existed in the past like 23 years on the backs of very technical founders.These are typically engineer-minded individuals that have a pension for tech to either make panels more efficient or more effective or whatever, like moving the needle incrementally is really important.We spend a lot of money on R&D and it's critical to develop technologies that do what they say they do.We can't build an industry on the back of something that doesn't work. That said, you have to tell a story that emotionally engages people to get them to buy in.Right. And that works if you're playing the numbers game of consumer sales because, hey, you have tens of thousands of customers.The renewable energy industry is primarily a B2B context where we're trying to sell to utilities and like, or maybe if you're a manufacturer to install to installers, who are then selling to residential homeowners.We're talking about Rezzy Solar, for instance. So most of my experience is in the B2B context, like how do we get people to care and how do we get them to participate, especially in the B2B context where the tendency is to lean again on heavy facts because we expect that people are making their decisions based on like what's the ROI, what's the return on investment, or how does this actually move the needle for us in a meaningful way?It even more tends to pull people towards this kind of dry, data-driven decision-making and conversation.

Spenser Meeks:15 different scientific disciplines, all unanimously agree that storytelling is the single most important and impactful tool that you can use to increase people's memory and retention and motivate them to act in accordance with your recommendations.

Aaron Nichols:Right, and I know you and I have talked a lot about storytelling and grounding things in emotion before, and I think there's a lot of people who, when I talk about how powerful stories are, kind of roll their eyes and say, yeah, yeah, whatever.And I'm sure you've gotten the same kind of thing, especially technical people. But how do you put together a compelling emotional story?

Spenser Meeks:Sure. So where do we start with these kind of things? The introduction is super important. Grounding and extreme relevance for your audience is critical.So the first thing that I would share with anybody considering doing this is make sure if you're talking in a presentation as a panelist or other discussion yourself to make sure that you start with the good stuff.Yeah. Don't start with "Hi, I'm Spenser Meeks, I'm the founder and principal consultant at Apex Presentations where I've worked with over a thousand of you," but like making it all about you and yours and like all of this stuff that has—like, people won't typically are drawn towards wanting to do credibility building at the very beginning so the people will then be like, okay, this person sounds serious, they sound well informed, I should listen to them.That doesn't really happen. So the right way to do that is by starting out with what's relevant to them, what the benefit is to the audience that you're speaking to and what's at stake if they don't act.Right. So little poke the bear at the end. So like most people that don't do this, guess what—they're exposed to extreme risk due to Attorneys General suing them for poor consumer support practices, or what have you.Right, like what's the like, oh damn, like I didn't realize that that was a potential issue. That causes them to lean forward.Right. Then you can go, hi, my name's Spencer Meeks. I am an authority to speak on this subject. I'm so excited to share this message with you today.Yeah. So that's—I like to start with that piece because I'm happy to talk to you about how to build emotional engagement but people aren't willing to go on that journey with you unless you can show them in the first minute and a half that what you're sharing is relevant and pertains to their situation.And sometimes in like a sales conversation or that kind of environment, what can be helpful is literally ask them, like tell me what's going on.It seems like we're having this conversation because of X—is that true? Like do a little bit more discovery there before you launch into what's important—what you think is important to them.

Aaron Nichols:And you have kind of an interesting superhero origin story that propelled you along that path and made you want to kind of make technical people sound more interesting and more engaging.If you'd like to, if you'd be willing to share a little bit about that, about the presentation of the starfish versus the poison gas.

Spenser Meeks:Yeah, so thanks a lot. For those that aren't familiar with me, I am actually a recovering engineer, right? So I used to do process and quality engineering work for solar panel manufacturing.I wouldn't be talking about storytelling if it wasn't extremely pragmatically focused. Like I talk about this stuff because it has impact.The way that this clicked in my mind and when I'm talking to people about this to help them understand like why does this actually work or why should we actually care about this is—I had an experience early on in my academic career where I went to a conference and I'm sure many of you have had a similar experience here where there were two different speakers.One of them was talking on the population dynamics of starfish—just where do starfish like to live in the Puget Sound, which, if you're not familiar, is off the west coast of Washington here.This is like rocks, cobbled sand, where they like to live and eat, et cetera.The next one was on a safe, environmentally friendly way of degrading and getting rid of VX nerve toxin, which is the most powerful chemical weapon known to man.For those of you that were around in the 90s, if you've seen the movie The Rock with Sean Connery, this is the chemical weapon that they had stockpiled on Alcatraz that they were threatening to kill the entire population of the San Francisco with.It is heinous stuff and it's real. If you get a droplet on the tip of your finger, you will die within minutes.And of course, like any weapon, the US has enough stockpiled to kill the entire population of the planet a few times over.They're leaking in barrels from the Cold War. It's not a great scene.Anyway, so that's a context, right? Speaker A, Speaker B: starfish and chemical weapons that will murder you in a second.So Speaker A gets up and she shares beautiful underwater photography, talks about a couple experiences that she had doing these dives, pictures of starfish traversing the rocks, the cobbles, the sand, reiterates her key points, shows a scanning electron microscope image of these latching mechanisms they use to anchor themselves to rocks, ends with a smile on her face and a song in her heart.Second person gets up. He shares a couple chemical formula and then reads bullet point status for 10 minutes. And when he's done speaking, he asks for questions.It's dead silent. Not because everybody completely understood what was happening and going on and everything was perfectly clear. It's because they all checked out, right?When I was walking out of that room, thinking about starfish, I knew that something was wrong. And it's fundamentally—facts do not speak for themselves.

And we've all had the experience, right, of going to a conference session that sounds great on paper. And then about five to ten minutes in, you start looking at your phone, maybe you're trying to figure out if you could download a slide deck instead of sitting for the entire session.You realize you need to prep for the next conversation you're about to have. You want to figure out where the session is that you're going to next.You start to check out. And once that happens, it's really hard to get back involved again.

Aaron Nichols:Yeah. Yeah, and I think that there's—obviously not universally across the clean energy industry—but in the public persona, there's a lot of talks about solar and gas that are just bullet points, and we're getting better at it.I think we've gotten a lot better in the last couple of years, but I think we have a long way to go getting better at storytelling.And some of the places that I really like to look at, as an example, are some companies in residential solar. Not everyone's great at it, but some are pretty good.And the off-grid solar market, which—holy god—are they great at just showing how awesome their products are and what the impact is.It kind of just goes up from there. And it's interesting how the people who are more beholden to B2C—like you have off-grid completely beholden to B2C, residential, a lot of them do commercial as well, so they're half-half—and then further up you go up the chain, it seems to me like the worse they are at talking to the public.And I don't know if that's because of where I am in the industry, but we've had some really incredible things happen when we've leaned on our best stories—like leaning on the commercial system that we installed on five Habitat for Humanity homes at once, or the system that we built that's off-grid that powers a greenhouse that grows organic produce in a food desert really close to the infamous Kensington neighborhood in Philadelphia.When we've leaned on those things, we've gotten either tons of local coverage—or in the case of the greenhouse, we got a lot of local coverage that got us a relationship with an NPR reporter that then led to a story about people rushing to install solar panels before Trump became president, where the president of our company got a picture and we got a backlink and it got picked up all over the country.And so it's just, it's so important to think about why people should listen to things. And it's often not the reason why you like things.

Spenser Meeks:Yes.

Aaron Nichols:It's not the reason why you think things are cool. The more you can lean on emotion and the less on logic, it seems to me like the more success you'll have.And you actually made me think of this phrase that I've been saying a lot, which is: if you want to be heard, be worth listening to.

Spenser Meeks:Yes. And that—everyone should have that tattooed to the inside of their eyelids that are trying to do this kind of thing.Right. It has to pertain to them, because we live in an environment now that is extraordinarily noisy. If you spend any time on social media—If you are online, it's just—everything is trying to grab your attention. And so we have really strong filters now, all of us, to try and make sure that we're going to preserve what we actually spend our energy and our time on.And so there is a substantial, in a lot of cases, BS filter that you need to surpass in order to reach people.And this is why—especially in the advent of AI here—that it's quality, not quantity, that is going to win the day, especially in a B2B context.So when you're working in a B2C context, that storytelling is monumental. It’s the whole thing.The reason it gets so frequently missed also in B2B context or you're talking about the people that are even more technically minded—frequently struggling with it, right?That happens in part because it is a necessary part of the conversation to get to the technical details. To the ROI, to all of this.But the argument—the hill that I'm going to die on for the rest of my life—really is: don't skip the first step.Do a quality intro. Make sure that people have the context and care—what the core conflict is—before you get to bring up your product, your service, the nuts and bolts of how these things work, which you can then spend a lot of time on because you're probably talking to an executive, you're probably talking to an engineer.We do need to validate the emotional buy-in that we're creating on the front side. It's just that you have to do that emotional buy-in piece first.And emotional buy-in is, I would argue, probably largely what you're talking about there.The thing that most people—sounds like—is that it actually provides a significant service.It's not the exact kilowatt-hours of the system that's being installed. It's not the nuances of how the inverter interconnects with all the other bits and pieces of technology that are involved.

Aaron Nichols:Well, like that piece is called the curse of knowledge, right? The things that us as subject matter experts get excited about probably are not going to be the things that get other people excited.It’s our area of comfort. And so in times of stress—like if you're giving a presentation or you're part of an interview—to fall back on what you know as an authority can feel more comfortable.It's just not as effective.A little bit of prepping, a little bit of awareness to know, like, what are the stories that demonstrate this? What’s the emotional impact and individualized sizing of this that will get people engaged and involved?

Spenser Meeks:Yeah.

Aaron Nichols:Heard you say that to someone who doesn't understand what gigawatts are, when you say five gigawatts, you might as well say six billion widgets or, you know, five hundred million nonsense words—floor muggins.

Spenser Meeks:Yeah, exactly. Doesn't matter. Yep.And then this is something you talked about earlier that I think is really good to keep in mind—is people's intuitive connection to the scale of things is really important to keep track of.And this is why it's important also to talk about individuals instead of like tens of thousands of people.Our ability to actually hold in our mind a number of people or a number of something taps out at about like 15—15 max.Which is why a lot of languages evolved to have, like: one, two, three, many.

Aaron Nichols:Right?

Spenser Meeks:There’s just more than that—it’s just like: a lot.Right. And a quick way of this is trying to think about the difference between a million and a billion.It doesn't feel like that big of a difference, right? A million seconds is about three days.Can you guess how long a billion seconds is?

Aaron Nichols:A lot of years.

Spenser Meeks:32 years.

Aaron Nichols:Right.

Spenser Meeks:Yeah. Okay, these differences in scale are really hard to internalize.They're really hard to internalize even if you're a person that's already working in the industry.The difference between a hundred megawatt project and a 2.5 gigawatt project is insane.But only if you can do something like visualize it—like actually show a picture of what a few hundred panels looks like versus like many thousands of panels covering an entire hillside.Right. So it's a call toward: how much more concrete, how much more clear can we make this level of impact, this level of scale to people and make it relevant to them—keeping a really strong eye towards who your audience is, what their level of experience and exposure is—will always mean that your messaging will land tighter.And if you don't know who your audience is—ask them. Like when you're starting a conversation with someone:"Hey, how’s it going? What's your background? What's your level of experience with this? Do you want me to air about this thing that I'm about to rant to you about?"

Aaron Nichols:Really? So this is a classic in sales:“So what got you to schedule the call with us today?”

Spenser Meeks:Yeah.

Aaron Nichols:Right. And then shut the front door—and listen.Well, man, I could talk to you for hours and I have. You've helped me so much. But we're running short on time here.And so when I was thinking about putting this short little interview series together, post–Inflation Reduction Act, I thought that the last question I want to end with is going to take a little bit of explaining.But a couple weeks ago I got to give a speech at my grandma's 80th birthday party—which, thanks to the things that you taught me for my clean energy speech, I absolutely nailed.And just like everything you've taught me—like I made a LinkedIn post about how the stuff you taught me helped me teach a friend in England how to give a better best man speech.And like, you've made such an impact in my life. And so I'm very grateful for that.But I was thinking about it afterwards—my grandma just turning 80 was born into a world where we didn’t have renewable energy.We didn't have clean energy. That didn’t even exist. Oil companies were still putting lead in gasoline when she was born. It was a completely different world.The first solar cell—the first PV cell—was created in 1954.So this is just a fun, moonshot question. But the reason I wanted to ask it is to kind of ground the scale of thinking about how far clean energy has come in my grandma's lifetime.And just imagining where we'll be in 80 years compared to that.Because I think the next three years under this administration are going to be an inconvenience.Clean energy obviously isn’t going to go anywhere. It’s going to be annoying, but we’re going to get through it.But if you’re just spitballing for fun—in whatever sci-fi context you want to do, don’t worry, we’ll both be dead, no one’s going to hold us to this prediction—Where is clean energy in 80 years?

Spenser Meeks:Oh, in 80 years? I mean—more than the dominant supply and capacity resource, absolutely.Like I am very firmly long on climate technology and solar—it’s already happening.

Aaron Nichols:Yeah.

Spenser Meeks:To your point—I mean, right now you can’t get a new natural gas turbine in five years.Like, we’re still gonna be building solar at breakneck paces, it’s just gonna be more expensive than it needs to be.So, like, where is energy in 80 years?I think it’s geothermal, solar, and wind, and hydro.I think that the days will be long gone of wanting to be dependent on the eccentricities of the international oil and gas markets.We’ll move towards transportation being completely de-hydrocarbonized.I’m hopeful that when I’m, you know, my parents’ age, that I’ll just be bopping around in an EV that’s auto-driving itself from point A to point B.I’m not going to have to worry about air pollution concerns at all.

Aaron Nichols:Totally.

Spenser Meeks:Yeah. I mean—yeah. And self-driving cars.I think we’re going to be in a great spot, man.

Aaron Nichols:Yeah.

Spenser Meeks:Yeah. No—politics is still going to be, you know, a factor for sure—making sure that we’re getting the kind of minerals that we need and where things are being produced and the jobs that are there to support all of that industry? Fantastic.But I will die happy if I know that we just decarbonized our energy system.I want people to not have to think about this stuff at all—to not have to worry about keeping their lights on or cooling their homes or any of that—because it shouldn’t ultimately lead to our air being polluted and our water being poisoned, right?

Aaron Nichols:Yeah. Like, that’s just a fundamental that should be a given that is not today.So people will be in a great spot.It just means that there’s going to be a lot of work from plenty of point.And there’s nothing new.Well, you and I got 40 years of work left in us. So let’s make it happen. It’ll be good.Thank you so much for doing this today.It’s been a pleasure. I’m happy to call you a friend and I’m always just excited to talk to you.

Spenser Meeks:Yeah, it’s a pleasure. And thanks for inviting me on.

Adam brings three decades of experience in electricity. He started as an electrician installing solar panels on rooftops, and now helps lead one of the country’s top utility-scale solar and storage developers.

You can connect with Adam on LinkedIn here.

Listen to this episode here, or on:

* YouTube

* Apple Podcasts

* Spotify

Expect to learn:

* Why solar professionals need to move away from a scarcity mindset and focus on promoting each other across the industry rather than tearing competitors down.

* The danger of the “lettuce effect” (when bad press about one company poisons public trust in the entire industry).

* The importance of respecting other energy sectors and focusing on shared humanity, even when our beliefs about climate or technology differ.

Quotes from the episode:

“The demand for energy is massive. We haven’t seen this kind of growth since the 1980s. If the industry does better, we all do better.” - Adam Larner

“No one wakes up thinking about solar other than solar people, right? It’s like air conditioning; they just don’t want it to harm them. So if we create negative energy around what we’re doing, that’s all people will remember.”- Adam Larner

Transcript:

Aaron Nichols:Adam, when I asked you what your clean energy rant is, which I ask anyone who comes on this show, you said we need to stop fighting and realize the pie is massive.

Aaron Nichols:I would love to hear you elaborate on that.

Adam Larner:Yeah, first of all, I appreciate what you are doing to just have good conversations in the industry. I think there is more collaboration and knowledge that can be shared. And there is more opportunity for builders to help companies be successful and grow in a constructive way, instead of just sniping at each other online.

Adam Larner:Obviously in a newer industry, especially a younger one, it is easy to take criticism personally and feel like everything is high stakes. There is a tendency to call people out publicly, which can sometimes be useful, but can also be pretty toxic. I really think that as people build careers in this space, there is an opportunity to step back a bit, be critical where it is needed, but not move away entirely from pointing out each other’s shortcomings.

Adam Larner:We see a ton of great new products coming out and different folks trying to carve out and create new categories, whether you are selling to installers or trying to connect consumers with different offerings. That challenge of “how do I stand out” can drive people into a mindset where they turn their competitors into villains instead of focusing on the huge amount of market that is available in this space.

Adam Larner:I think to the point of not just promoting oneself and using social and other platforms to say “we are the greatest and the best,” that is part of marketing and part of differentiation. But I really think this all has to be framed in the context of helping more projects go forward and helping more people get the benefit of clean energy.

Adam Larner:When I say “the pie,” I think that piece is really important. There is this temptation to look at it as a fixed number of projects or a fixed amount of demand and assume that if someone else wins, you lose. The reality is that the pie is growing. I would much rather see thirty, forty, fifty firms thriving than two or three mega firms drawing all the attention.

Adam Larner:One thing that is for sure, to your point, is that this industry is not going anywhere. Energy demand is increasing. Electrification is increasing. There is going to be a long, sustained need for better solutions and better experiences for customers, whether they are homeowners or big utilities.

Adam Larner:It has been a solid thirty year run at this point where every new technology or policy has made things a little better, and yet we still act like it is a zero sum game. The more we see things from a longer term view and worry less about who “won” a deal last week, the more we can focus on building the next wave of solutions together.

Adam Larner:So if we see things with that broader and long term perspective versus how to outmaneuver someone on LinkedIn this month, we can shift the conversation from “who is right” to “how do we build more, faster, and better.” The reality is, both sides in most of these arguments are blazing their own trail in some way.

Adam Larner:And obviously I am a hypocrite in a sense, because I am an entrepreneur, I care about my company, and I care about the solutions we are building. I care about growing our business. But I think if that is the only lens, we miss a much larger opportunity to collaborate and to improve how we deliver a solution in a way that is a lot more constructive.

Aaron Nichols:Of course. It takes conscious effort sometimes to get over the mentality of just trying to one up, which our whole system kind of trains us into from a young age. Less middle school energy, more university energy, am I right?

Adam Larner:Yeah, and I think we come, the industry comes, from a scarcity mindset because of how things were even ten years ago, and everyone had to fight for the same thing. I do not think our brains have caught up with the fact that there are just so many deals flowing in and so much more opportunity.

Adam Larner:I am starting to see a lot more solar companies collaborating with each other and working together where it makes sense. Part of the shift is not thinking of every interaction as “I have to get this one,” but seeing that there is a world where multiple companies can serve a customer over the life of their projects.

Adam Larner:That can mean one company handling a particular segment, another company helping with a different service, someone else being the trusted advisor. There are many ways for people to work together instead of trying to own every single thing in one place at the top of the funnel and refusing to collaborate as prospects move down.

Aaron Nichols:Well, for anyone who is listening, welcome back to This Week in Solar. As always, I am your host, Aaron Nichols, the research and policy specialist here at Exact Solar in Newtown, Pennsylvania.

Aaron Nichols:My guest today is Adam Larner, the CEO and a co-founder at Frame. Adam, would you introduce yourself and explain what Frame does and what your day to day looks like?

Adam Larner:Yeah, thanks, Aaron. So I have been in energy in some way for most of my life. I grew up in a household where my dad worked for the utility side of the world, and a lot of dinner table conversation was about generation, substations, reliability, safety, things like that.

Adam Larner:We focus entirely on large scale utility projects and grid facing infrastructure. In addition to my work at Frame, I spent years in the field as an electrician, working on the kinds of systems that actually get power from where it is generated to where it is used. So I have seen both the practical, boots on the ground side and the more strategic, software and systems side.

Aaron Nichols:Oh, cool.

Adam Larner:Yeah, yeah. Now I think we share some of the trades in that sense. I started with just a truck, installing solar on houses, running service calls, doing upgrades. Then I moved into more complex work at the utility level after being trained as an electrician.

Adam Larner:So now I am really focused on the technology and the innovation in the industry and how we actually integrate some of the best of software and AI into what the industry is already doing.

Aaron Nichols:Amazing. I want to pull a thread that came up for me, and we will go into where you see people growing the pie in a bit.

Aaron Nichols:I am interested in how you think we walk the line between doing good work and promoting that, and also being honest when there are people who are not holding themselves to a high standard.

Aaron Nichols:As someone who comes from the residential solar space, I know there are a lot of companies that have either done really poor work or have gone out of business and left homeowners high and dry.

Aaron Nichols:How do you think we hold ourselves to a high standard and elevate the industry, but keep most of the critique behind closed doors so it is constructive, instead of turning everything into a public hit piece?

Aaron Nichols:Or what do you see there?

Adam Larner:It is a good question. I think one thing that might be a bit of a folly in how we talk about this stuff is that I do not necessarily view it as one approach over another.

Adam Larner:If you are thinking about solar, there is mostly going to be a positive story because it is very close to the shopper. The whole point of this industry is to provide a better product for someone than what they had from the traditional fossil fuel energy system.

Adam Larner:There are different ways we can be forced into making trade offs as a society. If you forced me to choose certain battles, I would say I care a lot more about the consumers of energy, the human beings who are receiving the product, than about the internal scoreboard of which company “won” in a given quarter.

Adam Larner:Because what tends to happen is that if we keep the consumer and the end user at the center, we give ourselves a lot more room for error and grace in the types of projects we are doing and in how we iterate. We can try different things and still keep the north star of “are we making people’s lives better.”

Adam Larner:Especially in solar, that is the mindset I am working from, and that our founding team is working from. The question we keep coming back to is: how do we get more projects going and how do we unlock more clean energy for more people.

Adam Larner:Even to that point about industry competition and battling, what we see in any early industry is that people are still trying to figure out where they fit. There is a lot of identity building and you see folks get locked into defending a niche rather than learning from one another.

Adam Larner:So in some cases I think it is almost understandable where people will not collaborate or will not share. They believe that if they say something positive about someone else’s product, they are somehow undermining their own.

Adam Larner:It becomes more about “am I doing the best to market my product” instead of “are we, as a sector, delivering something that works for customers.” We are by no means perfect on this ourselves, but this is where we try to head.

Adam Larner:I suspect also, and you are probably closer to this than I am, that there are markets that have a lot of consolidation, where a few players dominate, and others that are fragmented. There is a big opportunity to think about what partnership and collaboration look like across that landscape.

Adam Larner:If someone really does not care and has clearly done harm, you are not going to be able to talk your way around that forever. People will figure it out. But if we spend all of our energy blasting each other in public, instead of helping solve problems for customers, I think we are missing something.

Adam Larner:There is certainly some acquisition and consolidation happening, like you said. But there is still a ton of opportunity. Even with Frame, we think a lot about how we can enable individual players that might be a one or two person local installer, or a small firm, or even a homeowner who wants to be more active, to be part of a larger ecosystem.

Adam Larner:Right now those people can be overwhelmed and not see what that unlocks for the industry. The same person who is not thinking about electrification yet might suddenly light up when they see heat pumps, induction, solar, storage, EVs, all connected.

Adam Larner:From the consumer point of view it is like air conditioning. They do not care what refrigerant or compressor it uses, they just want to know they are comfortable. In a similar way, a homeowner might only vaguely know the different pieces of the ecosystem, from solar to electrification.

Adam Larner:It is our responsibility to frame that in a way that allows folks to connect the dots and feel confident.

Aaron Nichols:Yeah, absolutely. And I think something you mentioned earlier is that we are all trying to sell, but ultimately we need the product to do what it is supposed to do for the person who bought it. Because if you sell folks solar and they are not getting the production they were promised, or the service, or the long term support, they are not going to say “that one company is bad,” they are going to say “solar is bad.”

Aaron Nichols:Then everyone is just going to be angry.

Aaron Nichols:This industry has a real problem where there are parts of it that deserve criticism and deserve to be pointed out and fixed. There are also a lot of good, reputable companies who need this industry to continue to grow and who are doing good work, but there is such a mixture in the middle and at the bottom.

Aaron Nichols:Parts of this industry have drunk the “sales modernization” Kool-Aid a little bit and it has created a really toxic, difficult space for consumers. Not that there do not need to be new sales techniques and innovation, but we have to be honest about where those go too far.

Aaron Nichols:I am curious, when it comes to getting more projects going and doing that in a sustainable way, what do you think are some of the things we could do to unlock more projects?

Adam Larner:Yeah, I agree. I think one thing is taking a step back and asking, why is it that installers find certain experiences hard.

Adam Larner:The appropriate level for this conversation is less “all the things that can be done” and more “what is it that each person can do.”

Adam Larner:For example, one thing that is underestimated in all of this, and that is a bond between me and the founding team at Frame, is that we all come from a deeply personal and deeply human approach to these products.

Adam Larner:We know that whatever process is put together, the people touching it are going to be on the receiving end of that. So if you centralize accountability but scatter responsibility in a way that is confusing, you create friction for everyone.

Adam Larner:I like to think in terms of “how am I working with the designer, how am I working with the salesperson, how am I working with the project manager.”

Adam Larner:What can we do to unlock bottlenecks together versus pushing everything back upstream or downstream in the chain.

Adam Larner:That is the biggest thing that comes to mind for me. If we design systems and processes that respect the people using them, both inside the industry and the end users, it becomes much easier to unlock more projects and do it in a way that does not burn people out.

Aaron Nichols:Yeah, I love that, and I think it really does come down to designing for how people actually behave and how they move through their day.

Aaron Nichols:Not thinking about people in theoretical abstractions, like “this rational actor will sit down and compare ten quotes in a spreadsheet and then make the optimal choice.” We know from talking to consumers that that is not how it really works.

Aaron Nichols:Even if they are going out and getting work done around the house, they might procrastinate, or flip between tabs, or get distracted by something with their kids, or they might just not be thinking about this for months at a time.

Aaron Nichols:So helping people move from that moment of motivation to actually taking action, like what you mentioned about “how am I working with salespeople, how am I working with engineers,” it is simple, but powerful.

Adam Larner:Yeah, and I think especially in the last eighteen months, there has been some real transformation across the industry in how deals are sourced and progressed.

Adam Larner:We really need to think about what that new state of the world looks like and what it means for how we operate.

Adam Larner:You could not really talk about solar without talking about modern solar sales in a different way five or six years ago. Mass outbound, door knocking, big call centers were such a dominant narrative.

Adam Larner:There has always been some call center element and some outbound element, but if you go from the early 2000s through the teens into the 2020s, modern cold calling techniques and mass commercial lead generation and financing became central.

Adam Larner:That created tremendous value, and a lot of folks benefited from it. But at the same time, people have been slow to realize how much that has shifted in the last eighteen months.

Adam Larner:I saw some data on LinkedIn recently from Jacob Hansen about folks seeking quotes in the fintech environment versus the solar side. What we have come to is this moment where the consumer actually has more power in that equation than they realize.

Adam Larner:Part of unlocking more projects is allowing consumers who want these things to feel more empowered and to move forward without a sense of pressure or guilt. Twisting arms does not serve anyone well. It just discourages people down the road from engaging again.

Aaron Nichols:Well, we have been played against each other as enemies for so long in energy. Fossil versus renewable, rooftop versus utility scale, this camp versus that camp.

Aaron Nichols:So how would you recommend that people play nice in this space? And what are some of the things you have done in your own life to bring that to fruition?

Adam Larner:I have tried to connect with people who are not in this industry and really listen to what they care about. I talk to people who work in oil and gas, people who work in nuclear, people who work in heavy industry.

Adam Larner:I try to ask “what do you need,” “what worries you,” “what do you think people in clean energy do not understand about your world.” That helps me see where there is common ground instead of just reinforcing a narrative that we have to be enemies.

Adam Larner:I also try to be curious about the technologies themselves, not just the talking points. How does nuclear actually work, how do you manage safety, how do you build infrastructure that lasts.

Adam Larner:That curiosity helps me see places where, long term, we are all going to have to work together. The grid of the future is not going to be one single technology. It will be an orchestra with a lot of players.

Adam Larner:We are still early in Frame’s journey, but I think the general sentiment we try to bring is “how do we be good neighbors in this ecosystem.” We want to support good actors, help connect people who should work together, and use modern tools in a way that feels fair and transparent.

Adam Larner:I think there are parts of what you described, like getting folks on the “nice list,” putting companies in touch with each other, doing warm intros where it makes sense, that are really powerful.

Adam Larner:And at the same time, we have to find ways to use modern tools while separating ourselves from some of the predatory practices that people understandably find off putting.

Aaron Nichols:Yeah. There are two directions I want to take this next.

Aaron Nichols:First, what is an area that you think is completely over-hyped and is taking things in the wrong direction for this industry.

Aaron Nichols:And then what is an area where you think, “we should be investing more there, and if we do not get this right, we will regret it.”

Adam Larner:It is a good question. If I were to pick one tech area that has a perceived overhype, I am more skeptical about storage for the home as the centerpiece of everything.

Adam Larner:It has its place, and it can be incredibly valuable for certain customers and in certain regions. But I think sometimes it is presented as the universal answer, when for many people, other investments like efficiency, better building envelopes, heat pumps, induction, and smarter load management might give more value first.

Adam Larner:On the flip side, the area I think we really need to invest more in is the long term, grid facing storage and flexibility solutions, at substations and across transmission networks, that let the whole system breathe.

Adam Larner:That is a place where storage, especially long duration storage, can be transformational. If we do not get that right, a lot of the other pieces are going to hit hard limits.

Aaron Nichols:To take us home, Adam, I ask everyone the same last question on this show. It comes from a family moment. I was at my grandma’s eightieth birthday party a couple of months ago, and when I was writing a LinkedIn post about it, I realized that she was born into a world where renewables as we know them did not exist.

Aaron Nichols:She was born ten years after the Rural Electrification Act. The only way we knew how to generate energy was to dig things up and burn them and then go dig up more.

Aaron Nichols:Windmills were for pumping water, not making electricity. When she was nine, the first modern PV cell was invented. Jimmy Carter put solar panels on the White House in 1979. Then at the turn of the century we started driving the price of PV down and down and down.

Aaron Nichols:All of that has happened in her lifetime. Batteries have an even crazier story arc. So, if you are just going to moonshot and spitball for fun, eighty years from now, when both of us are gone, what do you think clean energy looks like?

Adam Larner:I think it will take fifty to eighty years to truly have an integrated system where bits and electrons traverse the grid in the most efficient way.

Adam Larner:I do not think there will be one magic silver bullet, but I think we will have a grid where every substation has batteries, solar will be everywhere it makes sense to be, natural gas will be stepping in thoughtfully, nuclear will be the backbone in many places.

Adam Larner:I do not necessarily see completely new categories of energy that we have never heard of, though there will be new inventions within those spaces.

Adam Larner:The moonshot might be fusion. There is a lot of excitement there, and if we crack it in a practical way, that changes the game. But even without that, abundance is possible if we coordinate what we already have properly.

Adam Larner:I also think the perspective of elders is really important. My kids are shocked that I lived in a world without the internet. I am shocked that my dad lived in a world without television. His father lived in a world with almost no radios.

Adam Larner:You go from “How Much Is That Doggie in the Window” to the Rolling Stones within one lifetime. That is a huge jump.

Adam Larner:So for us to imagine fusion, or advanced fission, or other nuclear technologies becoming mainstream in the next eighty years is not that wild if you think about that pace of change.

Adam Larner:In the same way that we figured out how to get more food out of the same land without starving, we can figure out how to get more energy out of the same planet in a way that lets more people live well.

Aaron Nichols:Depending on where people want to connect with you, where do you want to be found, if you do want to be found?

Adam Larner:Just LinkedIn.

Aaron Nichols:Nice. Easy. All right. Thank you so much, Adam. For everyone listening, this has been This Week in Solar, and we will see you next week.

Derek is a master electrician, lead technician, and content creator dedicated to showing the world the reality of life on the roof.

Listen to this episode on:

* YouTube

* Apple Podcasts

* Spotify

Connect with Derek on LinkedIn here.

Expect to learn:

* The critical disconnect between the CEOs setting metrics and the technicians on the ground installing systems.

* The unintended consequences of the 2017 rapid shutdown codes (they introduced unnecessary complexity, cost, and points of failure to residential solar).

* Why Derek chose to rock a bright purple beard.

Quotes from the episode:

“There is a big gap between what the commentary class in solar is and what actually happens on the ground... the stuff that I find very important as a technician, as an electrician, is the stuff that affects the customers.”

- Derek The Solarboi

“I think my expectation is that [in 80 years] there will be rich people who will intentionally not install solar... not having solar will be seen as the rich person thing to do because solar will be so cheap and so common.”

- Derek The Solarboi

Transcript:

Aaron Nichols: Derek, public figure is not a typical career path for solar installers or electricians. Why did you decide to become an educator and entertainer?

Derek The Solarboi: Um, there is a big gap between what the commentary class in solar, uh, is and what actually happens on the ground. Um, so like, you know, there’s, there’s plenty of media out there in terms of, you know, consumer looking at the industry or the CEO talking about the industry or, you know, finance people talking about, you know, the greater economic things that are happening in the solar industry, but like the stuff that obviously I find very important as a technician, as an electrician is the stuff that’s on the ground, the things that affect the customers, the things that affect, you know, these installations and that bleed out into public perception sometimes, you know, when people can’t get service for their systems or their systems are failing that kind of thing, that I have a lot of experience with that I want to share with as many people as possible.

So the goal is to reduce the gap between the people on the ground who are dealing with the technical stuff and actually installing these systems and, you know, closing that gap with the people who make the decisions, the CEOs, the managers, all those people. Because, you know, I don’t know if you’ve gone from the level of the doing the work towards a more managerial position and realizing like, very quickly you start to lose context if you’re not super careful about it with what’s actually happening on the ground. And you’re just trying to hit metrics and you’re trying to hit whatever KPIs. And everything becomes, you know, an acronym and there gets to, you know, you want to stay in touch with the actual, what’s happening on the ground, right, so that you could be effective in what you’re actually selling and what you’re actually installing.

Aaron Nichols: Yeah. I mean, that’s a huge need and, you know, I really want to make what we do interesting to the public and I’m always experimenting to see what’s more interesting to the public and I consider myself a nerd whisperer. I’m always trying to take what’s technical and translated into interesting stories that people can consume, but I certainly lack the technical foundation that you have and so I’ve found your content very, very helpful.

Derek The Solarboi: I appreciate that. I appreciate that. The challenge is of course like I’m still working, you know, 40-hour week job and, you know, as a technician, as an electrician. And there’s so many so much time in the week, right? So, you know, I do want to branch out into more longer-form stuff. But, you know, when you are still driving, you know, two hours to a job site every day or whatever, you know, you have less time. So my home has felt, it’s felt very We at home on places like Instagram, TikTok, those, the vertical, short-form media stuff. But I get a video, I get a YouTube video out, ever so often, when I can, so.

Aaron Nichols: Yeah. Well, I look forward to the drive to the job site podcast, when that releases.

Derek The Solarboi: For my safety guy, I would not like that.

Aaron Nichols: For everyone who’s listening, welcome back to this week’s Solar. I’m your host, Aaron Nichols, the research and policy specialist here, exact solar in Newtown, Pennsylvania. And today, we have one of the more recognizable faces in the solar industry on the show, Derrick the Solar Boy. Now, Derrick, if you wouldn’t mind introducing yourself and just talking about who you are and what your day-to-day job is like.

Derek The Solarboi: Also, my name is Derrick the Solar Boy. That is my moniker on the internet. B-O-I. If you’re looking up. A B-O-I, yes, with a nine out of why, for sure. I, so I’m a solar technician and electrician and I’m a master electrician in five, six states, something like that. You know, the states that are useful around in the area. But I am the lead technician for the company I work for and I go out and fix people’s problems on solar installations. I’ve worked in residential, I’ve worked in commercial. The one that I have, the place that I’m working right now is much more focused towards commercial and small utility, so that is primarily what I’m working these days.

Aaron Nichols: Okay. I’m interested, I just want to pull a thread for fun. You said, lead electrician for the company you work for. I’m not going to press you on that because on your LinkedIn it says it’s like undisclosed, but is that because you decided to be a content creator, you thought that you would keep it separate in your public persona?

Derek The Solarboi: It is. There was an issue at the previous place I worked for where there was somebody who got cranky in Idaho or something about one of my videos where I was not being perhaps as safe as I should have been. And it became a whole problem. And so since then, I have kept my online identity fairly separate from my actual joby job. So that is why I get a little bit more cagey when it comes to details.

Aaron Nichols: Yeah, that’s that’s interesting. That’s an angle I hadn’t considered since, you know, thought leadership for me is just standing in this blank room. I can be pretty safe right here, you know. I’m not there’s no harness I should be wearing while I’m talking to you on the computer.

Derek The Solarboi: Well, and that’s the thing, like that’s the other reason why you don’t see a whole lot of people like me doing content is because the industry for for many good and bad reasons, very, very risk averse. And when you have somebody who’s on a site doing content about actual work, actual electrical work, there are so many things to think about when you’re looking at safety. Not just like are you actually being safe, but do you have the appearance, the full appearance of being safe? Because if you aren’t really careful, like if you do an edit that makes it look like you haven’t done a thing that you’re supposed to do, you’re I have a ton of comments from people saying, I don’t know if you didn’t do this thing or nothing. You know, because people get lost that there’s potentially more context than what is being presented. Right. So, that is tricky. And it’s really, really difficult to get somebody to agree to let somebody do something like this. You know, I know friends who have done content creation and have moved other companies that then realized, Oh, wow, these people have decided that they didn’t like this anymore, and it’s totally screwed them over that way. Yeah, it’s tricky, and it’s why you’re not going to hear as many people from my area of the industry talking about stuff, because talking about things while you’re in the field, according to things while you’re in the field, it’s just safety guys don’t like it.

Aaron Nichols: Yeah, and I think you have a little more to lose in that avenue. you know, then maybe me or someone who’s in marketing or someone who’s more of like a manager, you know, a CEO. But I think that when you make the decision to open yourself to the public, you are inviting criticism. There’s just, just certain members of the public who are, you know, I like to report one star reviews of local businesses from time to time because I used to work in hospitality and I understand that there’s just certain people you’re never gonna make happy.

Derek The Solarboi: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yep. For sure.

Aaron Nichols: Now, Derek, you have, for anyone who’s listening, Derek has a bright purple beard. And I am interested to ask you about it because I’m curious if it was a gimmick for the channel or did you have it before you started? Does it mean anything to you? What is the significance of the purple beard?

Derek The Solarboi: So there is no like deep meaning to the purple beard. It’s just fun. And I like doing, I love doing fun things. So, you know, the purple beard is fun. It is, you know, very consciously something that, oh, I can continue to do this to stand out on social media as, you know, eye-catching type of a thing. So, there’s a tiny bit of cynicism to it, but not all that much. I love my purple beard. And I get comments on it regularly from customers as well. Like, you know, I’ve gotten questions from people will be like, what doesn’t, isn’t, wouldn’t that be end up being inappropriate for customers? Like it seems like you’re just trying to get attention or whatever customers love talking about it. I get a lot of positive comments about it. It’s fun.

Aaron Nichols: That’s amazing, man. Yeah, and so anything you can do to be remembered is important. And it’s also just a good beard. Like I think you think you get away with it because it’s a good, thick beard. not everyone can grow on like that.

Derek The Solarboi: Yeah, I am blessed with my facial hair, for sure.

Aaron Nichols: Yeah, me too. Anyway, bouncing off that topic, you run a forum called the 3-7-4-1 reference, and you told me that you aim to reduce the amount of rapid shutdown devices on the roof. Show is meant to be accessible for people who have zero experience with solar energy, and so I’d love to set the stage here. So first of all, what is rapid shutdown for people who have no idea.

Derek The Solarboi: Yeah, so rapid shutdown is a requirement that came into the electrical code in 2017. It got implemented closer to 2019, so from then on we’ve had this requirement where, if you have a module, a solar panel up on your roof, that solar panel needs to have its voltage cut off after the panel almost immediately after it leaves it. So, solar panels are always on. They’re all, like, as long as the sun’s out, the solar panel is energized. So, the only way to do this to do the module level, the panel level wrap and shut down is to have a device under every single panel, really. I mean, we’ve cut it down to, you know, having a device for every two for some systems, but for residential, especially, it’s pretty much still one to one and what that turns into you end up doubling or tripling the number of connectors that you have on the roof. You have these electronic devices up there that just have objectively a higher chance of failing over the course of their life.

And not only that, if it’s one panel, say you have an optimizer or a microinverter up there and one of them goes down. The cost to replace one of those, even if you get the new device for free from the manufacturer, you still probably are gonna have to pay some for labor and that labor for one module repair is really expensive to, once you amortize that out across the next couple of years, right? It’s just a lot of complexity for not a lot of benefit. It was a reaction to firefighters around the early teens or so being afraid of fighting fires on groups with solar panels on them. So this is sort of a knee-jerk in the other direction from the insurance industry, from firefighters to try to make it as apparently safe as possible for people. and we have seen a lot of failures with these kinds of systems, you know, optimizers, you’re gonna probably have some optimizer failures over the course of your system, right? And you’re gonna have to pay somebody to fix them unless you have a really good warranty with your installer. And yeah, it’s just, it’s a lot of complexity that we don’t have to have. It doesn’t have to be that level of safety. We can bring it back a couple of notches, and that’s what UL3741, or it’s better termed PV hazard control, PV hazard control systems. That’s what that aims to help with. So PV hazard control systems, let’s a lot of these listed systems allow you to have up to 600 volts within the array still. So you don’t have to do module level rapid shutdown.

Aaron Nichols: So just to summarize for anyone who’s listening, please correct me if I’ve got this wrong, but in the early 2000s, firefighters were worried about being electrocuted when they had to show up to a house with solar panels on the roof and hack through it to hack holes on the roof so that they could get water into the home and fight the fires. So they passed that concern on. At that point, we introduced codes that said that you had to be able to shut the whole system down from, you know, immediately. And that meant that we introduced a lot more complexity into solar energy systems. And then when you introduce complexity into a system, there’s more chances that it’s going to fail because there’s more points of failure. Do I have that about right?

Derek The Solarboi: Yeah, and I think it was 2010 or 2012 that there was a big fire in New Jersey on, I forget I forget the name of the place, but it was a prominent news story at the time that the firefighter chief was like, well, we’re not going to fight the fire on this thing because we don’t know if you’re going to get shocked by the solar panels. It’s not likely for a firefighter to actually get shocked when interacting with these systems and we don’t have any data about firefighters actually being harmed by interacting with solar installations when they’re on fire. There’s just no data out there. We don’t know as far as we know, nobody’s actually been harmed by this. So it’s going to need jerk in a direction that has increased more complexity. It costs more upfront, right? It costs more to install the system. It costs more to maintain the system. We need to get it back to a more reliable situation.

Aaron Nichols: Okay, so we’ve added a bunch of unnecessary cost into solar energy systems, what can we do to remove that cost?

Derek The Solarboi: So when they introduced module level rapid shutdown to the code in 2017, they also had a clause in there about, you know, if it’s otherwise listed to be safe, right, and then they later in a later code revision, they termed it PV hazard control systems. That’s what 3741 is, so typically how it works right now is a racking system will get this listing with, you know, with the inverters, with the devices that they use to shut down the, you know, do the array level shutdown, because you still need to shut down the array. But it’s really difficult if you don’t know, if you don’t want to pour through just a ton of manuals to find what’s compatible with what? Because for a while, the racking system would pick some inverters. And then that would be how you would know if those inverters you could use in this scenario. But the inverters often didn’t have that information on their website. So anyway, that’s why I made pvheasantcontrol.com. It lets designers help know what is compatible with what and how it gets installed just through this website. So you can look up any manufacturer inverter racking system, and it explains how the stuff works, so I have myself just installed a solar installation on my house with PV has control and a more novel listing, like there’s a listing company up in Canada that the CSA that they allow for racking to do a more general listing, so allow you to use any inverter that’s listed to this other listing, etc., you know, complicated stuff still. But I was able to use a solar converter and a midnight string shutdown and a, you know, and a terrogene racking system. And they all work together in this listing as much more flexible. So, very pleased with that. And I’m hoping that those systems are where we’re headed in the future to make it easier for designers to use this stuff.

Aaron Nichols: Yeah, I’m going to have to pick your brand because I think next spring or summer, I’m going to be doing it on my own home, and so I’m excited to go through that process as well. Would you say the name of the website one more time, and I’ll make sure I put it in the show notes?

Derek The Solarboi: Yeah, it’s pvhazardcontrol.com.

Aaron Nichols: Perfect. And outside of rapid shutdown and the need to simplify the tech stack out in the field, What are some of the top mistakes that you see when you’re out in the field, expecting and checking things out? I’m interested in, if there’s anything you see over and over again that just drives you crazy, especially for us as an EPC, something that we can pass along to our install team and avoid.

Derek The Solarboi: Yeah, I mean, most of the time, if you have good, you know, if you’re teaching your ops people properly, really the most of the time what you’re going to see in terms of failures is inverters. Inverters, optimizers, microinverters, the electronics. Combs can be really big communications. So most of the time we hook up these inverters to the internet. So depending on what source you have for that internet, if you’re doing it over Wi-Fi, that will drop out anytime that the customer decides to replace their router. So that’s always annoying. I never use Wi-Fi, I always use a hardline ethernet, maybe cellular, but yeah so most of the time we’re looking at inverter failures and you know can I can I call on a people know this about me I do not love the reliability that we’ve seen with solar edge inverters especially over the last five years or so and that That is one of the reasons that I’m, and before that, certainly optimizers were dying all the time as well, hence my desire to tell people about these things and create these resources for people to be able to get away from this kind of stuff, to not be locked into a single manufacturer, right? Like, I don’t know, I’m a problem with solar edge existing. I have a problem with it feeling like we are forced to use solar edge, because, you know, Well, one of the three manufacturers, the petition for the module level rapid shutdown, revision in the code in 2017 was solar edge, and then it was also end phase, and then it was Tygo. All companies that very greatly profited off of that code change. So, hopefully, we’re able to swing around to where we’re not locked into these optimizer and micro-inverter solutions, and it’s easier to design around more string inverters type of a system.

Aaron Nichols: OK. Yeah, this is one thing that we love about being a behind-the-meter EPC is that we can be product agnostic and then just install over time, just install more and more of what works.

Derek The Solarboi: Yeah, yeah, for sure. So I mean, and every inverter manufacturer has their moments of failures and like bad products like, you know, especially when a new form factor of inverters is introduced often, you’ll see like a rash of those failing and then they get over it and they move on and so it varies, it varies.

Aaron Nichols: So you’ve been doing this a lot longer than I have. I’m almost at three years in the solar industry.

Derek The Solarboi: Nice. Oh, now you’re becoming a senior, though. I mean, three years doesn’t take long. It amazed me. So I started back in 2014 and it amazed me. Like once I was five years in, how I basically was one of the old guard at that point, right? Like it doesn’t, it doesn’t take long, which is really cool. Like if you’re joining into the solar industry and, you know, having electrical background is great. Obviously, if you’re doing install. But even if you’re not, we still need so many people in this industry as it continues to grow, despite whatever the government does to try to kill it. It’s going to continue to grow. And we’re going to continue to need people who are technical. And if you dive into and care about the technical stuff and and really focus on making that your primary goal, you’re gonna advance so fast in this industry and find out that you, all of a sudden, are one of the people that knows the things that everybody calls about, you know.

Aaron Nichols: Yeah, that’s good to know. I think I definitely need to spend some more time on the technical side, but. Yeah, it can be intimidating as someone who comes in brand new. Just like, because everybody who’s been here for longer than five, ten years, they’re all like best friends and godparents to each other’s children. And so they meet each other at conferences and they do a Viking handshake and they’re like, brother, we’ve been forward to the fires of war.

Derek The Solarboi: That’s pretty accurate, yep.

Aaron Nichols: Yeah, that’s pretty cool. But I’m curious, what are some of the major changes you’ve seen since you started?

Derek The Solarboi: That’s a good question. So I only started really paying attention to the larger, like, I don’t know, political side is like the right way to frame it. But like the economic, the larger solar industry, I’ve only really been paying attention to that more in the last like three, four years or so. So I mean, all I know is what has changed since we started in And since I started in 2014, but even then, I never installed any central inverters, but that used to be the go-to thing for commercial projects is install a central inverter, which is just a huge, you know, couple hundred kilowatt inverter that’s, you know, 480 volts, it sits on a big pad on the ground and you run all your stuff down, all your modules down and parallel them all together there in one big chunky cable. And we’ve gone from that to string inverters all the time. And then, of course, sort of the code enforced optimizer solution or rapid shutdown solution, which that’s kind of the biggest thing.

Aaron Nichols: Now, to bring it home, Derek, I ask everyone who comes onto the show the same closing question. And it has to do with the fact that But I spoke in my grandma’s 80th birthday party last summer. And when I was sitting there writing a post about it afterwards, I realized that 80 years means she was born into a world where renewable energy did not exist. And windmills just pumped water back then, maybe generate electricity. I should Google that at some time, I’m not sure. But PV wasn’t invented till 1954, and then wasn’t even a viable technology until the 70s. And Jimmy Carter put solar on the White House in 79, but that was solar thermal, and everything that’s happened since her birth has been the birth of renewable energy as well, all the way till now when it’s the cheapest source of power. So if you are just going to moonshot to take us out here, what do you think clean energy it looks like 80 years from now. And don’t worry, we’ll both be dead unless medical science advances. So no one will hold us to the answer.

Derek The Solarboi: That is true, wow, that’s it, wow, what a thought. That’s pretty, wow. Okay, my answer on that would be, I mean, I would expect that certainly 80 years from now it’s gonna be fairly default when installing a new house, when putting in a new house. like I think my expectation is that there will be rich people who will intentionally not install solar and not having solar will be seen as the rich person thing to do because it will be so cheap and so common and it will be just so expected. We’ll just have backyard nuclear reactors, which is the seed dropping. You know, nuclear people keep saying it’s gonna make sense financially, and they keep costing too much. I don’t have a problem with nuclear. To be clear every time I talk about renewables and talk about nuclear as well. I’m like, I don’t mind nuclear, nuclear seems great. We just need to figure out how to make a cost rate.

But yeah, I think it will become a default for most people. I think it will become an industry like HVAC where maybe not every house has a solar on it and just like not every house has HVAC but it’s going to be common enough that you’re going to have several local HVAC service companies or solar service companies in your area and it’s just a fact of life. It’s just a thing. It’s just another appliance you have in your house and it’s going to I mean, a lot more portability for people as well, I think, you know, the batteries and solar panels that we have, you know, that are sort of geared towards people who are camping or just kind of want a portable power source, like that’s just the start of this industry, or if that part of this industry, and there’s a lot more to go.

Aaron Nichols: Yeah. I mean, that’s my favorite thing in the world. I have a 200 watt solar panel from Craigslist and old battery bank and a star link and I can now just work from the woods as a Colorado boy.

Derek The Solarboi: Yeah.

Aaron Nichols: Well, Derek, thank you so much for coming on today. Where do you like to be found online?

Derek The Solarboi: So you can find me at solarboy.com, all my links there. But I do have a bunch of other projects that I have going on all the time. And if you want to follow me and my projects, you can find that stuff at buildshiny.com. One of my secret side projects recently has been restoring and posting old national electrical codes in their entirety as PDFs online so that people can see them and figure, see how where we’ve come from so that we can kind of better understand how we got here and where we’re going in the future. So, that’s been a bit of an all-encompassing fascination for me, but any projects I start in the future, you can find it, buildshiny.com.

Aaron Nichols: Amazing. Yeah. I think that maybe that’s the podcast, as you do, maybe sort of like a drunk history thing. You just read old electrical codes that you’ve restored.

Derek The Solarboi: This is my hope. Honestly, there’s a bunch of documents that I would love to just read aloud as a performance piece for a video. So I think it’s gonna happen, but I gotta do a couple of, I gotta close out a couple of the projects in mind first.

Aaron Nichols: Well, thank you so much for coming on today Derek and for everyone listening, that’s been this week in solar.

Derek The Solarboi: My pleasure, thanks for having me.

Expect to Learn:

* Why 70–75% of U.S. rooftop solar is installed by local contractors, not corporate installers.

* The two decisions every homeowner must make (Is solar good for my home, and who should I hire to install it?) And how Wattbott can guide them through both.

* Why state-level solar permitting reform is about to become hugely important.

Quotes from the Episode:

“People don’t decide to go solar because they were sold, they decide because they understand.”

– Dhanur Grandhi

“Start with this belief: subsidy-free solar is possible.”

– Dhanur Grandhi

You can listen to this episode here, or on:

* YouTube

* Apple Podcasts

* Spotify

Transcript:

Aaron Nichols: Hello everyone and welcome back to This Week in Solar. I’m your host, Aaron Nichols, the Research and Policy Specialist here at Exact Solar in Newtown, Pennsylvania, and this episode is part of our short interview series connecting with folks who’ve been in renewable energy a long time—to assure anyone in the industry or thinking about going solar that, even if Inflation Reduction Act incentives are temporarily gone, renewable energy isn’t going anywhere. Today’s guest has been in solar and renewables for quite a while and is now building an exciting product to help solar companies as we go forward. Let me introduce Dhanur Grandhi.

Dhanur Grandhi: Howdy… howdy. So excited—yeah, we need more shows like this, don’t we? We definitely do. There are real conversations that need to happen, and I appreciate what you do. And yes, I’m the CEO of Wattbot. Quick intro: I’ve been in what we call residential solar / distributed energy / consumer electrification for about 15 years. My story started in China helping solar panel manufacturers ship globally; it hit me that a new energy economy was coming. I quit, moved to the U.S., studied energy, started one of the industry’s first software-enabled solar concierge companies, sold that, then spent 10 years building at Sunrun and Mosaic. Over the last decade I’ve spoken to ~1,000 homeowners, worked with hundreds of great businesses, shadowed installs and ride-alongs, sat in call centers—trying to understand why people buy or don’t, and how to help them decide better and faster. I needed a break but couldn’t leave the space, so I started Wattbot with my co-founder/CTO. Our goal: drive adoption of solar and electrification. The honest insight: on one hand we have amazing innovation in hardware/software/services/financing/orchestration; on the other hand, the typical consumer is unaware, apathetic, irrational, and the topic is too complicated—so decisions are slow and infrequent. We asked: is there room for a curiosity-led engagement layer anyone can use—type an address and explore options? That’s what we’re building to help everyone solarize and electrify.

Aaron Nichols: That’s amazing. At Exact we’ve realized there’s a huge education burden before a homeowner or business even wants to go solar—learning incentives, local rules, how the project flows, feeling comfortable with roof work, trusting the company. Some companies have abused that trust and made it harder for the rest; there are good actors too. I’ve heard you talk about enabling the “strong tail” EPCs—can you elaborate on that and how Wattbot helps them?

Dhanur Grandhi: Of the ~5 million U.S. solar homes, about 70–75% were installed by local businesses. Big names are on the leaderboard, but they didn’t do all the jobs. Solar and storage are home-improvement projects—and home improvement is local. There’s a reason we don’t have national roofers or plumbers; it’s a trades game. If we want recovery and exponential growth, we must be serious about local trades—they’re indispensable. “Strong tail” refers to them. Before the budget bill news, we defined strong tail as the most rapid local installers; still true. Now it’s any business still in it to win it—budget bill or not. If you’re committed because solar is a good value, you’re part of the strong tail. This segment is critical, and we focus on enabling it.

Aaron Nichols: How did working for the biggest names lead you to want to enable the local contractor?

Dhanur Grandhi: Two steps. First, consumers are skeptical, unaware, irrational, short attention spans. The products are technical, complex, with benefits that aren’t perfectly predictable—hard to sell. I learned hundreds of thousands of companies are reinventing the wheel, selling the same stuff to the same people their own way—inefficient sales/marketing. We need a layer that puts the customer first: What is this? Can it work for my home? Will it help? Is now a good time? A couple cool companies with slick sales pages won’t drive adoption; we need something fundamentally consumer-first. Step two: distribution. Instead of going direct and spending on ads, we put the tool in sellers’ hands. Local businesses already engage customers, have reputation and ground game, know home improvement. So: build an agnostic consumer engagement layer, then give it to the trades to help them market and sell better.

Aaron Nichols: How does Wattbot help the consumer get to a decision?

Dhanur Grandhi: We’re focused on solar to start. Two big things. First, we lean hard into an installer’s reputation—that instantly differentiates the best from the rest. When a homeowner goes solar, they’re making two decisions: is solar good for me, and who should I go with? We help answer both. On “who,” we showcase reputation so you can flex that muscle. On “is it good for my home,” we use public data to answer basics non-pushily: is the roof good enough, grid reliability/outage exposure, risk from extreme events, exposure to electric-bill inflation, neighborhood adoption as a proxy, etc. Consumers deserve that—and companies love leads who’ve educated themselves.

Aaron Nichols: What changes over your 10 years led you to build Wattbot?

Dhanur Grandhi: Honestly, not much has evolved in how companies engage consumers. Tons of hardware innovation, tons of sales-software innovation (proposals/quoting at the transaction), but little that truly inspires at the engagement layer. People decide when they intuitively understand the need, urgency, and benefits—hyper-personalized to property, preferences, local climate, and finances. That doesn’t happen at one kitchen-table meeting; it happens over a consideration journey. I haven’t seen tools that serve that journey—so we’re building one.

Aaron Nichols: Now that the IRA is effectively repealed for now: for those who’ll stay—the strong tail—what moves should they make to weather a hard time?

Dhanur Grandhi: Start with belief: subsidy-free solar is possible. The substitute (grid power) is costly, and bills aren’t coming down—structural reasons prevent it. Severe weather makes resilience viscerally valuable. New flex markets pay people for participation. Hardware/software/services are excellent. Next, get leaner and smarter on sales/marketing. We just launched referrals; our challenge: shift everything toward referrals/word of mouth if you have reputation—stop burning budget elsewhere. New financing models are emerging; states will reform permitting. Side note: many locals have been quoting competitive prices (20–40% margins) even with ITC—some are already cost-competitive. The mindset is key; then systematically attack the sales/marketing cost stack. My friend Ravi has a blueprint to get to $2/W by 2026; we need plans like that, across CAC, ops, interconnection, design, permitting—reconfigure business models and partnerships. We have the pieces; we need to rethink how they fit.

Aaron Nichols: To close, a moonshot. My grandma’s 80th reminds me: she was born into a world where “renewables” didn’t exist; PV arrived in 1954; Carter put solar on the White House in 1979. So much in 80 years. No one will hold us to it—what does clean energy look like 80 years from now?

Dhanur Grandhi: I hope there’s no “clean energy”—just energy, and it’s all clean. I hope we power everything with electricity, not fire. Civilization’s long-term trajectory hinges on one decision: how we make our energy. Imagine a futuristic world still shoveling coal into furnaces—it doesn’t compute. I hope heat and energy are synonymous and truly electric. I also hope for true wireless electricity—fewer wires from generation to use and inside the home. Make the landscape prettier, the experience simpler. And culturally, I hope we choose the smarter way to power our lives over clinging to pollution for profit.

Aaron Nichols: We can end there. Dhanur, thanks so much for coming on—looking forward to what we build together.

Dhanur Grandhi: Likewise—pleasure. Thank you.

You can listen to this episode here, or on:

* YouTube

* Apple Podcasts

* Spotify

What’s New:

Four GOP House members have introduced the American Energy Dominance Act, a bill designed to revive renewable energy and efficiency tax incentives that were phased out by 2025’s One Big Beautiful Bill Act (OBBBA).

Why it matters:

The OBBBA’s jarring rollback of federal tax credits created market uncertainty in clean energy industries, stalled projects across the country, and forced almost $35 billion in in-progress projects to be cancelled.

Representatives Brian Fitzpatrick, Mike Lawler, Max Miller, and Mike Carey partnered with North America’s Building Trades Unions to draft the legislation.

The bill removes accelerated expiration dates for commercial solar, clean hydrogen, and building efficiency tax credits to secure domestic supply chains and protect union jobs.

Unfortunately, the bill does nothing to extend or reinstate 25D, the tax credit for residential solar installations.

Anders Alexander weighs in below:

Transcript:

Aaron Nichols Anders, you messaged me on LinkedIn in response to a post I had put up about the four Republican representatives who have proposed that we extend the commercial tax credits rather than phasing them out as the one big beautiful bill would have done. One of them is actually Exact Solar’s representative, Fitzpatrick, who was one of

two no votes on the one big beautiful bill. Now know you had some commentary, you messaged me, you were like, I have something to add on this, and so I decided to bring you on for a news roundup on a Friday morning. So let’s hear what you have to say.

Anders Alexander Yeah, I think that extending them is brilliant.

consistency, the market still has a lot of growth, a lot of building to do. But to be clear, when it comes to the residential side, you’re still talking about third party owned solar, which has a really great place in the market. It’s really what the market has grown around. You have good longer term guarantees, easy to participation in utility programs, you know, all that’s great. And we lost 25 D, which accomplishes honestly all the same things just in a different way.

Aaron Nichols Just really, really quickly for anyone who’s listening who’s not in the industry, what is 25D?

Anders Alexander Yeah, 25D being the tax credit specifically for you own your home, you own your solar, you may have gotten a loan, but 25D is ownership. 48E is third party owned leases and PPAs. And so when you look across the country, some states are really heavy on ownership and loans. And so when you have tax credits for one financing type for not another, it’s not like it’s evenly spread throughout the United States. You have basically a lot of the

Midwest,

a lot of the rural areas, the Northwest, that, you know, we are almost five months into not having 25D and only having 48E and the third party financing options have not rushed into those markets and probably won’t long term when you look at utility prices and what they need to compete with, but also just the availability of the products. And so I think when you have both, you have a more balanced market that feeds the whole country.

But as I wrote to you before, a step in the right direction is the step in the right direction and we’ll always welcome that.

Aaron Nichols Yeah, so to succinctly try to phrase it, if this is going to be equitable and be a win for the solar industry, we need to make sure that we’re extending the residential tax credit alongside the commercial tax credit. And as it stands, it’s only the commercial tax credit that would be extended by this legislation.

Anders Alexander Exactly. And if you would say that, well, yes, there’s going to be holes in the markets when there’s only a two year time frame and extending this will mean that, you know, 48E and this third party ownership will extend to the whole country, you know, not necessarily. And the other thing about like ownership and loans, it’s very recognizable way of buying things for your home, for participating in utility programs. And so once again, it just creates, yes, a more balanced, equitable market spread throughout the

United States. And when I was looking at the data, just to remind myself this morning of where TPO is and where cash ownership is, you know, really has to do with the rural divide with the cities. And so honestly, I live rurally. And so that’s a lot of what you’re doing is you’re basically, it looks on the map, like you’re really just reducing more access in the rural areas and kind of leaving the rural areas behind. And I’m from a city, but I’ve been living in rural areas for years.

now and between internet and other services we really do leave the rural part of our country behind and 25D is just a real clear way to make sure that they’re included and so that’s why you know once again both are great different types of homes different types of utility programs but when you put them together I think you get a really strong policy for the country.

Aaron Nichols Yeah, I grew up in a small town and if there’s one thing I hate, it’s big city people making decisions for small towns. So thank you for coming on today, Andish. It has been wonderful to have you. For everyone listening, that’s been This Week in Solar and we will see you next week.

Sources:

House Republicans introduce bill to extend renewables tax credits

Republican legislators seek to restore clean energy tax credits

Republican lawmakers propose bill to preserve commercial solar tax credits

Some state representatives are stuck battling utility monopolies in committee, just so that their constituents can legally use the sunlight that hits their homes.

If you’re excited about potentially lowering your electric bill without a permit and live in one of the states below, here’s what you can do to help move this battle forward.

Listen to this episode on:

* YouTube

* Apple Podcasts

* Spotify

This Week In Solar is always brought to you by Exact Solar, your locally owned, 20-year-old solar installer.

Energy costs are skyrocketing, and no one seems to have a good plan to fix it. Between natural disasters, capacity auctions, utility rate hikes, and data centers gobbling up power, energy just keeps costing more.

You have no control over how much someone charges for power for your home or business, but you can choose to opt out of the cycle by going solar. If you live in New Jersey or Pennsylvania, Exact Solar would love to work with you to see if solar is a good fit for your property.

Whether you have cash to pay for solar up front or you want solar for zero dollars down, we have an option that will fit your needs.

Just click “Show Me How Much I Can Save With Solar” below, submit your info, and we’ll show you the numbers!

Here’s What to Say if You Live in These States (Legislation Died or Failed to Advance)

If you live in:

Rhode Island, Washington, Illinois, Minnesota, Wyoming, Oregon, Missouri, Indiana, Arizona, New Mexico, Georgia, and Idaho.

Contact:

Your state representatives and senators, as well as local environmental and renter advocacy groups.

Tell them:

Say that you expect plug-in solar to be reintroduced in the next legislative session as a standalone bill, and that you are building a coalition to support it.

Remind your reps that UL 3700 certification requires automatic anti-islanding, and that because of that safety regulation, plug-in solar is already being safely deployed across several states.

Then point out that traditional rooftop solar is inaccessible to Americans who don’t own their homes, and that plug-in solar solves that.

To summarize, tell them that these systems are safe, and that killing these bills directly harms renters and low-income households who need immediate utility bill relief (and gives them a solution that doesn’t require government subsidies).

(If you’re wondering what that bit about UL 3700 and anti-islanding means, it’s just a guarantee that if the grid goes down, the system shuts off in milliseconds. So it means that plug-in solar poses zero risk to utility workers when people buy and install proper kits. Germany has over 4 million of these installations with zero lineworker incidents).

Here’s What to Say if You Live in These States (Legislation is Pending)

If you live in:

* Awaiting Signature: New York (the SUNNY Act) and Vermont.

* Active in Chambers: California (SB 868), Massachusetts, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Delaware, North Carolina, Ohio, and Washington, D.C.

Contact:

* For New York and Vermont: Contact the Governor’s office and ask for a signature.

* For the others: Contact your state representatives and senators, as well as local environmental and renter advocacy groups.

Tell them:

Remind them that while traditional rooftop solar can cost upwards of $20,000 for cash or a loan, plug-in kits cost between $400 and $2,000 and plug directly into a standard 120V or 240V outlet with no need for expensive electrical panel upgrades and contractor soft costs.

Make it explicitly clear that these bills do not ask for state funding or tax credits. They simply remove outdated bureaucratic red tape so consumers can spend their own money to lower their electric bills directly.

Urge them to publicly support the specific plug-in solar consumer access bill currently moving through their chamber.

Here’s What to Say if You Live In These States (Where It’s Already Legal)

Disclaimer

This Week in Solar is an informational and educational publication. The legislative tracking and advocacy strategies shared above do not constitute formal legal advice. Legislative language, utility rules, and local regulations vary widely by state and can change rapidly. Before purchasing or installing any plug-in solar hardware, always review your specific local state statutes, municipal electrical codes, and utility tariff documents to verify current compliance requirements.

If you live in:

Utah, Maine, Virginia, Colorado, Maryland, Connecticut, and New Hampshire.

These states have officially signed laws legalizing plug-in systems up to 1,200W (and a nation-leading 1,920W in Colorado).

But these states have now shifted from passing the law to enforcing it, and there’s still a chance that an HOA or township will try to stop you from installing plug-in solar.

Contact:

Your state’s Public Utility Commission (PUC) and the state legislators who sponsored the bill.

What to tell them:

First, read the law in your state and understand what your rights are. In states with renter and HOA protections (like Colorado), the law preempts homeowners’ associations and landlords from banning balcony solar.

Once you know your rights and you’re ready to install, if your local utility demands a formal interconnection agreement, a pre-install inspection, or proprietary equipment for a UL 3700-certified kit, report them to the PUC (if you’re legally allowed those things under new laws in your state).

Sources

https://pluginsolarguide.com/

https://www.brightsaver.org/legislation-tracker/

https://pluginsolarusa.com/

https://www.reddit.com/r/pluginsolarusa/

They discuss why traditional silicon panels are reaching their physical limits, how “tandem” structures are shattering efficiency records, and why this new material is a game-changer for everything from utility-scale power plants to NASA spacecraft.

You can connect with Scott on LinkedIn here.

Listen to this episode here, or on:

* YouTube

* Apple Podcasts

* Spotify

Expect to learn:

* Why NASA is betting on perovskites to power spacecraft.

* How perovskite panels reach way higher efficiencies than traditional silicon ones.

* The three hurdles (efficiency, durability, and scalability) that perovskite must clear to survive in today’s solar market.

Quote from the episode:

“Silicon took 60 years to get to where it is today. Perovskites took about a dozen years… It’s a completely new material science that’s revolutionizing the solar industry.”

— Scott Wharton

Transcript:

Aaron Nichols: Scott, I’m really excited to have you on today because I don’t know anything about perovskite solar panels yet other than the fact that NASA’s really interested in them for space travel. So, where do normal solar panels fall short and why are perovskite panels the future of solar energy?

Scott Wharton: Well, normal solar panels today get about 22% efficiency, so basically for every hundred beams of light that hit the panel, they can convert about 22 of them to electricity. With perovskite tandem panels, we’re already over 29% and the theoretical limit is between 45 and 50%. So the current solar panels basically, through the laws of physics, probably can only get to 26%, so they’re already kind of tapping out for what they can get.

If you want to be able to get higher efficiency and power density, almost everyone in the industry agrees that these perovskite tandem—I’ll explain that in a minute—is going to be the future. Now, perovskite itself is a crystal structure, and it was discovered about a couple hundred years ago. It was named after Dr. Perovsky, a Russian dude and scientist. And the fun fact is, if you go underneath the Earth’s crust about 400 miles, more than 90% of it is perovskite.

Aaron Nichols: Really?

Scott Wharton: But we don’t do any mining or minerals or anything. We basically make it synthetically in a lab. So there’s no earth metals and minerals and mining and we create this very thin layer that is less than one micron thick and it only weighs actually two grams. So it’s super thin and light, but it adds all this more power to a solar panel. So it’s basically a completely new material science that’s revolutionizing the solar industry.

Aaron Nichols: That’s amazing. And for anyone listening, welcome back to This Week in Solar. As always, I’m your host Aaron Nichols. Our guest today is Scott Wharton; he’s the CEO of Tandem PV, which I don’t quite understand how Tandem PV works. So, if you’d introduce yourself and the company, that’d be amazing.

Scott Wharton: Yeah, so first, I’ll start with my background. I am a startup junkie. This is my fifth startup. Clearly there’s something wrong with me; I like to continue to do this over and over again. I’ve been very fortunate in my career. The first two companies I did early stage, they were both in the voice-over-IP telecom space, both of them IPO’d on NASDAQ, the second company got sold to Cisco for $2 billion. Then I started the world’s first cloud video conferencing service called VidTel. So I like to say, I had the right idea, but it was three years earlier than Zoom. So I was a little early, ended up selling the company, and then my wife and I loved traveling.

Aaron Nichols: Pre-COVID?

Scott Wharton: Yeah, this was—we started it in 2008 and then we sold it in 2013. So my wife and I love traveling. So what we did is we got rid of our house and our cars and we pulled our boys, then 10 and 13, out of school and we backpacked around the world for a year with a bag a little bit bigger than a carry-on. I hope probably that’s another discussion in your head. But then when I got back my wife said, “Would you mind not doing another startup for a while?” So, I went to this company that almost everyone here knows called Logitech, and I built the world’s biggest video conferencing hardware business. So this headset, the webcam, a lot of the conference room systems that people are using around the world—Zoom, Microsoft, Google—were something me and my team built up basically from scratch to over a billion dollars a year organically.

Before I came to Tandem PV, I was running a $2 billion a year global manufacturing business for Logitech. And so I’ve been here about two and a half years. Came into the company not as a founder, but there were two brilliant founders who both had PhDs from Stanford in Material Science and Applied Physics—you know, “dumb guys.” And then basically came in to help commercialize the company to go from late-stage R&D to commercialization, which is—I’m sure we’ll talk about—that’s where we’re here now. And then the company itself, the reason why it’s called “Tandem” is that we basically make a solar panel sandwich. We put this perovskite layer on top, we take the traditional silicon cells that are commodity in the bottom. And by having the two layers, you’re actually able to capture a lot more light than you can from one of the other.

Aaron Nichols: That’s amazing. And where do these perovskites come from? Because once again, like I said, I don’t know anything about them, other than the fact that NASA’s so interested in them. So where are they? You mentioned that we’re not mining a lot of them? Are they synthetically created?

Scott Wharton: Yeah, exactly right. We make them in a lab. So we make them in a lab here in California. And then you don’t need to mine them, although I guess that they’re all over the planet—Earth is full of them. But we make them synthetically and relatively inexpensively, and then we process them and convert them into solar panels. And as it turns out, perovskites are incredibly good and efficient solar panel materials. They’re essentially semiconductors.

Aaron Nichols: Why is that? Why are they better at conducting or absorbing sunlight or whatever it is they do?

Scott Wharton: There’s a couple of reasons why. One is that they are actually 200 times thinner than a traditional silicon panel, so it’s a lot cheaper to make. It ends up you putting a thin film down glass, so it’s more like making a TV from a manufacturing process point of view. As I said earlier, it doesn’t use any rare earth minerals or metals or mining, so it’s relatively inexpensive to create the materials. And then it only uses about 10% of the energy to make it. We can make it at a lot lower temperature than traditional silicon panels, which—they’re silicon, they’re sand—you have to heat them up to thousands of degrees and then purify them. We don’t need to do that.

So there are physics and cost advantages. And then the last thing is we’re able to stack them because the perovskite captures a different part of the light than the silicon does. There’s this thing called the band gap, which is how much light can you capture, and we’re just able to capture a lot more light collectively than you can with just perovskites or silicon. So the name of the company “Tandem” was actually formed with this idea of creating stackable solar panels technologies as opposed to just using one of the other.

Aaron Nichols: Okay, so integrating perovskite with existing silicon technology so that everything is more efficient.

Scott Wharton: That’s what we’re doing today. In the future, we might engineer out the silicon where it’s perovskite and perovskite, but today, primarily it’s perovskite plus silicon.

Aaron Nichols: Okay, so that was my next question and you went ahead and answered it for me. So you’re already a step ahead of me, but I was interested in why it takes so much less energy to produce. Now you mentioned that you have to heat silicon—or the sand to create silicon—to a very high temperature in order to refine it. But what do you have to do with perovskite to refine it?

Scott Wharton: Yeah, so part of the reason why silicon and the so-called polysilicon technology is primarily in China is that it’s so energy intensive and relatively dirty. So like 98% of polysilicon comes from China today, so they almost completely dominate it. With perovskites, it’s just you heat it up to a much lower temperature to basically turn it into a crystal structure. So we did a study with Columbia University some years back and estimated it’s about 10% of the energy needed. So it’s an order of magnitude cheaper to make from that point of view as well.

Aaron Nichols: So then what are the raw building blocks that you’re using?

Scott Wharton: Well, you know, that’s our “Coca-Cola formulation.” They’re all about it, but it’s nothing exotic. One example of something that we use in our product is iodine—pretty simple molecules and chemicals.

Aaron Nichols: Okay. Yeah, you can just pull it right out of table salt and throw it into the factory.

Scott Wharton: Yeah, in a way, yeah.

Aaron Nichols: Nice. Well, so, I mean, the thing I’m most excited to talk about is why these are better for spacecraft and why NASA is so interested in developing these?

Scott Wharton: Yeah, there’s a couple of reasons for that. One is because they’re so much thinner than silicon, you can make them quite a bit lighter. Now, obviously, you need thinner materials like glass or stuff, but there are companies like Corning and others that make very thin glass for space. That’s number one. Number two, perovskites are particularly resistant to radiation, so they’re good for being out in space for that.

And then the third thing is, since most of the solar technology comes from China, as you can imagine, people listening, there’s national security concerns. Are we going to get all of our future technology from China? So the fact that there are companies like us and a few others that make the stuff in the United States makes it more Western-friendly from a technology point of view. So I’d say it’s those three things, and then the last thing is the higher performance. So the ability to get into the high 20s or the 30%—when you’re up in space, if you can only send a few things up there, you’re willing to pay for the highest performance possible. So I think it’s the combination of those four things that makes people pretty excited about it.

Aaron Nichols: So why haven’t we entirely switched over to it? If it’s cheaper to make, easier to make, doesn’t take as much heat—what’s standing between us and just entirely switching to perovskite as a solar industry?

Scott Wharton: Great question. So the main thing has been the durability of these products. In nature, perovskites will degrade and fall apart pretty quickly. And if you look at traditional solar panels, they’re almost bulletproof in that you get a solar panel today and it goes 30 years and then it gets to less than 1% a year degradation. Think about anything that goes in your backyard anywhere for 30 years in the elements and doesn’t completely fall apart—you can probably think of almost nothing.

So these solar panels over the last 60 years have become really hard and in very high performance. So the market wants something to be in a similar range—maybe not exactly that, but close enough so you can get to a 25-year warranty with less than 20% degradation of performance. And we now have the technology that we can show based on our lab testing, that we can do that. We’re now validating that outside and through some third parties. But if you think about it, Silicon took 60 years to get to where it is today. Perovskite took about a dozen years.

I think we’ve made much faster progress, but the Holy Grail is: you want high efficiency, you want high durability, and then you need to be able to manufacture it—and you really need to do all three of these things at the same time. If you read about perovskites, people will announce some very high performances but usually, it’s on like a little dot in a lab. That’s not repeatable or durable. That’s kind of our secret sauce—being able to do all three at the same time.

Aaron Nichols: And when I see the headlines coming out of NREL that perovskites have been to 45% efficiency, that’s what they’re talking about—is a little dot on that.

Scott Wharton: Yeah, it’s a microscopic dot that was handcrafted, that has no durability. It may fall apart pretty quickly. And then from a process point of view, you can’t take the dot and scale it. So you really need all three of those things to have a commercially viable product. I think where Tandem PV is now is that we’ve cracked the code on being able to demonstrate those three things at the same time.

Aaron Nichols: Well, it sounds like y’all are going to be in a really good position with where the industry is headed because you must qualify for domestic content with your components as well, right?

Scott Wharton: Not only do we qualify for domestic content, but I would say there’s this misunderstanding in the industry about the tax credits. I think the conventional wisdom is that the IRA is repealed and most of the tax credits have gone away. That’s only partially true. On the consumer side, the tax credits for EVs have gone away and the solar credits for your house, but we’re not selling there. We’re selling to utility-scale. For those, the US manufacturing tax credits were fully adopted by the Republican Congress. Actually, it’s the same as a Democrat. So now I would argue it’s a bipartisan commitment to US solar manufacturing. The tax credits for our customers are maintained as long as they do this thing called “safe harboring” where they basically start the project and have another four years of runway—until 2029 or 2030. So the conventional wisdom that you may hear it’s repealed is actually completely wrong and very favorable now for people like us.

Aaron Nichols: Yeah, we’ve gotten very, very comfortable with safe harboring over the last couple of months. We’ve obviously been forced to, like so many other companies in the industry. But that is amazing. So y’all are placing and fulfilling orders right now?

Scott Wharton: No. What we’re doing is we raised a series of venture funding earlier—we announced early in the year $50 million, a combination of equity and debt. That allowed us to scale up to build our first pilot or demonstration factory. That’s where I’m sitting in now, in our Fremont, California factory. And what we’re doing basically is demonstrating that we can take our products that were basically the size of a tablet and showing how we can build them up to the size of a door—essentially a full-size solar panel. The goal of this factory is not to make money but really to show that we can build it at scale to show all the durability requirements and then to show a customer starting to buy them. The next high-volume factory will be at full size at economic value, but that’ll be coming next.

Aaron Nichols: Well, Scott, you are quicker than most people I’ve interviewed. So I think we’ve gone through the questions I’ve written down. I’d like to take a quick conversational detour because I want to expand on something you said earlier which was that you took a year to travel the world with your wife and kids. I like to tell the story when I’m on other people’s shows that I ended up in the solar industry because I met some circus girls on the beach in Ecuador. And they invited me on some door-to-door sales trips and then it’s just been one thing after the other since then. So, traveling and just the vagabond lifestyle is responsible for so many of the incredible things that have happened in my life. I’d just like to hear you talk for a few minutes on what that was like, especially with a spouse and small children.

Scott Wharton: Yeah, before I went to graduate school, I decided I’m going to take four months off. I ended up going a couple of months in Europe, a couple of months in Indonesia and Thailand by myself, and I kind of fell in love with it. But then I would meet all these Australians in Scandinavia and it’s like, “Scott, I’m so sorry that your trip is so short,” because they were going out for years.

So when we sold our company, my wife and I said, “You know what, let’s see if we can just take a year and get rid of everything and just pull our kids out of school and we’ll just vagabond around the world.” Everything was kind of improvised—we’d follow the sun—but we’d get to a place for a couple of days and then we’d just see if we liked it and figured it out. I’d worked for 20 years at startups and basically to not work full-time and take a sabbatical was really good for me, especially as a man where a lot of our identity is tied up to work. It was really funny—my kids would introduce me and they would say, “This is my dad Scott, he’s unemployed and homeless.” Technically true!

Aaron Nichols: 10 and 13? Oh, wow.

Scott Wharton: They definitely had a twinkle in their eye when they would say that. What was the best thing? Really being with my family 24/7, getting to know them better. What was the worst thing? Being with the family 24/7. Sometimes it was tough because you have no support system out there. Every new place you go to, you have to start community over from scratch. You mentioned being with the same people for 24 hours a day for a year—you just had enough of each other. It was great, we learned a lot, but not every day was an adventure.

Aaron Nichols: I’m so happy that you took the time to do that, man. I mean, I’m continually blown away by the quality of people in the solar industry. I’m in a big WhatsApp group for returned Peace Corps volunteers as well, and there’s just so many people who have just done big, interesting things around the world. That’s another thing I wish I would have done, but I got, sadly, I got rejected by the Peace Corps.

Scott Wharton: Yeah, well, I think you’ve gone on to prove that you would have been a great candidate.

Aaron Nichols: Maybe there’s a future Peace Corps for us later. But Scott, to bring it home, I ask everyone who comes on this show the same closing question. Back in the summer, I spoke at my grandma’s 80th birthday party. I realized that 80 years means that she was born into a world where what we call renewable energy didn’t exist. PV wasn’t invented until 1954. Jimmy Carter didn’t put solar panels on the White House till ‘79—and those were solar thermal, not even PV. All of that has happened within her lifetime. So I am curious: what do you think clean energy is going to look like 80 years from now?

Scott Wharton: Well, gosh, 80 years from now, I would say we’re going to look back at the fact that we burned fossil fuels and say, “Why did we do that?” Because I suspect that in 80 years it’ll be 100% renewables. My expectation is that it’ll be solar for the most part, maybe a little wind. I actually don’t think nuclear is going to be that big a deal—I know that’s controversial—because solar is so cheap and getting less expensive all the time.

In 2025, in the world, more than 100% of new power was renewables because people are shutting down coal plants because it’s too expensive, not necessarily for environmental reasons. So I think we are already on the trajectory to solving climate change. It’s not an “if” anymore; it’s a “when.” By 80 years from now, we will have negative carbon emissions and the world will be 100% renewables and we won’t be talking about climate change. We need to accelerate it because we’re getting into some dark times, but I also think this is one of the biggest economic opportunities in time.

Aaron Nichols: It’s pretty amazing, man. Scott, it’s been an absolute pleasure to have you on today. Where do you like to be found if you do want to be found?

Scott Wharton: You can find me on LinkedIn or if somebody wants to drop me a line: scott@tandempv.com.

Aaron Nichols: Great. Well, for everyone who’s listening this week, thank you very much. That’s been This Week in Solar, and we will see you next week. Thanks so much.

Kenny tells his stories from the DIY roots of modern solar and explains how even without tax credits, rising power rates make solar energy systems a great investment for homeowners.

Expect to Learn:

* What off-grid life and solar energy looked like in the 90s

* Why ranchers and remote sites were early adopters (solar well pumps > hauling generators).

* How the solar industry can move past “solar bro” sales tactics and build long-term trust.

Quotes from the Episode:

“We never truly needed incentives—self-reliance was the original incentive.” – Kenny Grigar “In 80 years we won’t call it ‘renewables.’ It’ll just be energy—and maybe no bills.” – Kenny Grigar

You can listen to this episode here, or on:

* YouTube

* Apple Podcasts

* Spotify

Transcript:

Aaron Nichols: Hello everyone and welcome back to This Week in Solar. I’m your host, Aaron Nichols, the Research and Policy Specialist here at Exact Solar in Newtown, Pennsylvania—and today’s episode is very special because I’m interviewing an off-grid solar specialist while I am actually off-grid. I’ve got a panel charging a battery bank that feeds a Starlink, and I can charge my computers off it—perfect setup for today’s conversation. Today’s guest is someone I’ve followed on LinkedIn for a while and really enjoyed, but haven’t met until now. It’s Kenny Grigar, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the show, Kenny.

Kenny Grigar: Thanks—thanks for having me.

Aaron Nichols: With you being an off-grid specialist who’s lived off-grid, you’ve got a unique perspective on solar incentives under the Inflation Reduction Act. The purpose of this series is to talk to leaders about what clean-energy companies can do now that we’re moving into a world without the incentives we’ve had for so long.

Kenny Grigar: Right. When I first started out there were obviously no incentives. I first started living off-grid and was a solar enthusiast around 1993. We did a few solar concerts; hardly anyone knew how to install the equipment. I grew up on a farm, wiring 12-volt batteries in series and parallel for irrigation and lighting. My grandmother didn’t have electricity until I was in grade school.

Aaron Nichols: That was the year I was born, by the way. What was price-per-watt like back then?

Kenny Grigar: Oh my gosh—upwards of $5 to maybe even $8/W. My first panel was about 32 W for roughly $350. We thought we were cool. My first 2 kW system felt huge. We were using 60 W modules, then 120 W (two 60s in one frame). Systems were extremely expensive. There was a lot more DC-direct because inverters were limited. I joined a professional outfit—Jade Mountain—around 1997 and saw the first digitally controlled PWM charge controllers arrive. We were still selling individual cells you’d frame into DIY modules. We made charge controllers and power systems. Everything was a mash-up—dozens of components from a dozen companies—like building a Jeep out of Ford/Chevy/Yugo parts. Analog meters were the norm; digital readouts and rudimentary data acquisition were just coming in. Trace Engineering was big, then Pulse, and a few module makers. Uni-Solar thin film helped nudge prices down to maybe $5–$6/W.

Aaron Nichols: And when did incentives start coming into play?

Kenny Grigar: The first I remember of a federal tax credit was the Bush administration—years after I’d cut my teeth and started my own install company. Even grid-tie systems we did then were often battery-based—OutBack, Trace, etc. Early grid-tie was still battery-first. Then string inverters arrived—Sunny Boys and the like—and we were like, “Great inverters, but where are the batteries?” It was off-grid first.

Kenny Grigar: There’s a LinkedIn group called Solar Pioneers—lots of early folks in Northern California, Colorado, New Mexico. You’d buy land with no prospect of utilities, so you combined a little PV for electricity with non-electric tech: hand well pumps (Lehman’s), Aermotor windmills, etc. Because solar was so expensive, systems grew over years—Christmas presents were a new module or inverter—arrays were a mix of 60 W, 120 W, whatever you’d pieced together.

Aaron Nichols: That context matters for this series: leaders like Kenny started when there were no incentives.

Kenny Grigar: Absolutely. The “incentive” was an American self-reliance mindset. Who loves hugging their utility? Even if payback looked like “forever,” nobody gets a “return” on utility payments. It also transcended politics then. Ranchers on huge spreads were early adopters—swapping generators and long drives for solar well pumps to automate watering rotations. There was never going to be ROI on gasoline + maintenance out there; PV cut the hassle.

Aaron Nichols: And generators need maintenance—if you neglect them you don’t have power when you need it. With the sun feeding a battery system, you’ve got resilience. I’m optimistic that, in a world without incentives, that American streak of defiance kicks in. Also: utility power keeps getting pricier for the same product that never innovates.

Kenny Grigar: Exactly—especially in places like Texas where some folks pay more for electricity than their mortgage.

Aaron Nichols: Oh wow—really?

Kenny Grigar: Yeah. If you’re in the last 15 years of a 30-year mortgage paying, say, $600–$800/month for electricity, that can eclipse the mortgage. Part of it is the “everything’s bigger in Texas” mentality—getting handed a 10-ton AC as the default. Few start with efficiency. There’s also a mindset barrier—“why a mini-split?”—and you end up with 13-SEER hogs. Back in the day, doing site evals for grid-tie (even with local rebates), I’d refuse quotes unless the homeowner made efficiency changes. People would buy a “more efficient” fridge, then keep the old one on the porch cooling half a six-pack. In the ’90s/early 2000s, solar folks were often the only ones pushing efficiency. Square footage wasn’t destiny—I’ve seen 2,000-sq-ft homes with 10 kids at ~2.3 kWh/day, and apartments using 60 kWh/day. With $8–$10/W modules we’d say: every dollar on efficiency saves you ~$8 on the PV system. The ratio’s different now, but the principle stands: efficiency is king.

Aaron Nichols: For companies moving forward without incentives, is the play to focus on efficiency and rising bills rather than over-moduling?

Kenny Grigar: Absolutely. Don’t over-module just to hit a quote or make a PPA pencil—make the load efficient. Especially off-grid, you can’t design from past bills if there aren’t bills. You design per-circuit and per-behavior. Be an electrical investigator—find the hidden energy thieves. Know your customer. And look, I wasn’t advocating losing fair incentives—oil has plenty. But I am a little excited to see solar stand on its own again. We never truly needed incentives; CEC-style rebates and certain muni programs proved PV is among the cheapest ways to generate energy. Doing it on our own again also helps scrub out the “solar bro” era. I’ve seen the tactics—fur-coat booths cheering a fake “eviction notice” door hanger that mimics a utility warning. That stuff made me sick.

Aaron Nichols: I get those mailers—same vibe as fake mortgage-warranty notices. I could talk off-grid and dishonest pitches all day, but let’s bring it home. My last question comes from my grandma’s 80th: she was born into a world where “renewables” basically didn’t exist. In her lifetime we got PV (1954) and Carter’s 1979 White House thermal install—and prices fell off a cliff. If we extrapolate 80 years forward, what’s your wild prediction? No one can hold us to it—we’ll both be gone.

Kenny Grigar: In 80 years we won’t even say “renewable energy.” It’ll just be energy—and maybe no utilities as we know them. Systems will be so efficient and affordable that point-of-source, distributed energy is the default—designed into homes and warehouses. A 500-W “module” might be the size of a smartphone. The whole house shifts away from a 240-V breaker panel; appliances are like laptops—moveable, DC-friendly, smart. Years ago I said by 2025 solar should be as easy as Geek Squad installing a home theater—we’re behind on that, but that’s the trajectory. If it eliminates “cool solar guys” like me doing installs, so be it. It’ll just be energy—and maybe no bills.

Aaron Nichols: Thank you so much for coming on, Kenny. Where can people find you?

Kenny Grigar: solarescue.com and LinkedIn. And hopefully I’ll have good news soon—I’m planning to join a great team (can’t say more yet).

Aaron Nichols: Thanks for making the time, Kenny. That’s This Week in Solar—see you next week.

Jessica has spent more than 15 years working across nearly every segment of the solar and clean energy value chain, from modules and inverters to batteries, software, recycling, and utility-scale projects.

You can connect with Jessica on LinkedIn here.

Listen to this episode here, or on:

* YouTube

* Apple Podcasts

* Spotify

Expect to learn:

* Why most people (including many in the industry) do not understand their electric bills.

* How bad incentives drive utilities to build expensive infrastructure instead of cheaper, distributed solutions.

* What microgrids and virtual power plants actually are, explained in plain English.

Quotes from the episode:

* “Energy is one of the most basic necessities we have, and yet it’s still incredibly difficult to understand how we’re charged for it.”

- Jessica Fishman

* “If any other technology evolved this slowly, we’d still be riding horses and using typewriters.”- Jessica Fishman

Transcript:

Aaron Nichols:Jessica, what don’t most people realize about the way that we make and consume energy today?

Jessica Fishman:I love this question because there are just so many things. I think we can start with the very basics. People don’t even understand the difference between kilowatts and kilowatt hours. And that’s some people in our industry, right, especially those who are just joining. So it makes it really hard to understand your electric bill. You get these things like this many kilowatts, this many kilowatt hours, and it doesn’t make sense, so you just think, okay, I guess I just have to pay this.

That gets even more complicated with the way utilities are changing their billing now. They’re separating things out whether it’s time of use, or you’re not just being charged for your usage, you’re being charged for grid access fees and all these other things. Energy usage itself is simple, you turn something on and off, but understanding where your money is going and how you could possibly save it becomes incredibly difficult.

Energy is one of the most basic necessities that we need, and yet it’s still so difficult to understand. Part of me wonders whether that’s intentional. Most people just want to turn on their lights, heat and cool their house, take a hot shower, keep their food fresh. Energy demand stayed stable for a long time, but now prices are rising and it’s hurting people.

Aaron Nichols:Yeah, no, you please.

Jessica Fishman:It’s becoming a very hot button issue. We saw gubernatorial candidates voted in based on energy prices. We’re doing a bill breakdown where I talk about a survey that found 59 percent of people have no idea how their energy bill works. They say it looks like it’s written in another language.

It keeps getting more complicated as there are new ways to charge people for energy. Cost structures and pricing structures have evolved in a way that’s continually complex, and often in a way that ensures utilities keep making more money. When energy prices rise, the cost of everything rises. Getting food to the grocery store, cooling it, transportation, everything depends on energy. It’s the bottom layer of the pyramid.

Aaron Nichols:That’s really interesting. Well, for everyone listening, welcome back to This Week in Solar. I’m your host, Aaron Nichols, the Research and Policy Specialist here at Exact Solar in Newtown, Pennsylvania. I’m very excited about today’s guest.

Last year my friend Spencer Meeks told me I had to follow Jessica Fishman on LinkedIn. I started following her, noticed all the engagement, and honestly started copying her shamelessly. That’s when I started getting engagement too. I realized people love graphs.

Jessica Fishman, would you briefly introduce yourself, talk about your role at Kite Rocket, and give us an overview of what Kite Rocket does?

Jessica Fishman:That is so kind of you to say. I really appreciate it. I stumbled into the LinkedIn thing a few years ago and really enjoyed fostering a larger community. I’m happy it’s motivated others to speak out.

I’ve been in renewable marketing communications for about 15 years. That was a very conscious choice. I used to work in high tech marketing and decided that if I was going to spend this much of my life working, I wanted it to be on the most important issue of our time, the climate crisis.

When I first jumped in, I sent my resume to every solar company in the state and no one responded. Fifteen years ago the industry looked very different. I eventually found a role at what was then the largest solar distributor in the world.

Back then, there were no recruiters or organizations focused on helping people transition into climate careers. Now there are, and I actively advocate for them. Since then, I’ve worked across the value chain with modules, inverters, batteries, trackers, racking, software, recycling, residential, commercial, utility, and enterprise.

My role has always focused on communications. I believe you can’t explain technology unless you deeply understand it yourself. This is a real, regulated industry. It’s not just free energy from the sun.

One term I’ve been excited about recently is electrification or electro-tech, focusing on energy as a progressing technology rather than a depleting resource like fossil fuels.

Aaron Nichols:One thing you mentioned earlier is that the way we make power started a hundred years ago and hasn’t really changed.

Jessica Fishman:The grid is really old. At a high level, it’s still burning something centrally and transmitting it outward. If any other technology evolved this slowly, we’d still be using typewriters and riding horses.

Utilities are monopolies. They lobby heavily and are incentivized to invest in more expensive infrastructure because they’re allowed a guaranteed return on equity. That motivates them to choose bigger, costlier projects rather than better ones for customers.

Aaron Nichols:You described virtual power plants as the Uber and Airbnb of energy. Can you explain what virtual power plants and microgrids are?

Jessica Fishman:A microgrid can operate independently. It can island itself and continue operating even if the grid goes down.

A virtual power plant aggregates distributed resources like batteries, solar, EVs, and thermostats into a single coordinated system. You might have hundreds of small systems that collectively act like a large power plant.

The reason I like the Uber and Airbnb analogy is because it democratizes energy. People can use their own assets to participate in energy markets, lowering the barrier to entry.

Aaron Nichols:So instead of centralized burning, we now have distributed generation and storage.

Jessica Fishman:Exactly. It’s more complex, but also more democratic. Demand can shift to meet supply instead of the other way around. The grid becomes proactive instead of reactive.

Aaron Nichols:Why have utilities been so resistant to this change?

Jessica Fishman:Monopolies. Utilities are incentivized to make the wrong investments because they earn more on bigger capital projects. They also capture regulators through lobbying, which has left us with aging infrastructure.

Aaron Nichols:You’ve built a passive-style house. Can you talk about that?

Jessica Fishman:It’s inspired by passive house design. The south-facing side is mostly glass. In winter it heats the home naturally, and in summer overhangs block direct sunlight. Yesterday it was 10 degrees outside and 74 inside without mechanical heating.

The house is fully electrified with heat pumps, induction cooking, and thick insulation. The shell is incredibly efficient. I also focus on water conservation and soil restoration.

Aaron Nichols:I end every show with the same question. My grandmother was born before any of this technology existed. What do you think clean energy looks like 80 years from now?

Jessica Fishman:I think we’ll see microgrids, peer-to-peer trading, true demand response, and a wide range of battery chemistries for different use cases. The biggest question is whether the U.S. leads or lags. That will be determined in the next few years.

Aaron Nichols:If people want to find you, where should they look?

Jessica Fishman:LinkedIn is the main place. I also mentor through platforms like Work on Climate, Terra.do, and Open Door Climate. I really believe in paying it forward.

Aaron Nichols:Thank you so much for coming on today, Jessica. And for everyone listening, that’s been This Week in Solar. We’ll talk to you next week.

Kate shares how asking the simple question, “What are we going to do with all this stuff at the end of its life?” and repeatedly hearing the answer “Huh. Someone should probably figure that out” led her to try to… figure it out.

She walks us through co-founding SolarRecycle.org with Amanda Bybee, and tells us the story of handing the project over to the Solar Energy Industries Association (SEIA).

You can connect with Kate on LinkedIn here.

Listen to this episode here, or on:

* YouTube

* Apple Podcasts

* Spotify

Expect to Learn:

* Why the solar industry should pat itself on the back (we did something very unique).

* How EPCs, installers, and service teams can start building responsible reuse and recycling into their project scopes.

* Policy and funding models (like landfill bans or small per-watt fees) that could make the solar industry truly sustainable.

Quotes from the Episode:

“We built this industry in the name of sustainability. We cannot ignore what happens to the equipment at the end of its life.”– Kate Collardson

“We are the first industry in history that chose to figure out recycling before the waste piled up. I am really proud of that.”– Kate Collardson

Transcript

Aaron Nichols Hello everyone and welcome back to This Week in Solar. I’m your host Aaron Nichols, the Research and Policy Specialist here at Exact Solar in Newtown, Pennsylvania.And today’s guest is very special. Why don’t you introduce yourself?

Kate CollardsonThanks for having me. I’m really excited to be here. I’m Kate Collardson, as you said. And I have been in the solar industry for about 20 years.I started as an installer and have worked for manufacturers and distributors and financiers, and about seven or eight years ago I started getting interested in our end-of-life practices.So I kind of asked the question at trade shows, you know, around my network… What do you think we’re gonna do with all this stuff at the end of its life?And the answer was always, “Eh, someone’s gonna have to figure that out, huh?”And I got that answer enough times, and so nobody was really raising their hand to say, “I’m gonna figure it out.”Except for someone named Sam Vanderhoof, who has been in the industry for 40 years. He’s a pioneer from Northern California.And he started passing around a petition at an RE+ that might have been SPI back then, and it was (for anyone who’s listening, that’s a conference).It’s the biggest industry conference of the year. And it was a petition to get solar recycling going.And so I went up to him and shook his hand and said, I would love to help you out with whatever you’re doing.

Kate Collardson (continued)And so he was putting together a startup for recycling. I got him into an incubator program here in Colorado.We went through that, and through several twists and turns. That didn’t end up panning out for me.But in that time, I had gained this reputation in the industry as someone who knew something about recycling.People would give out my name, because whenever the topic came up, someone would say, “You know who knows something about that? Kate Collardson.”So they’d call me or email me, and I’d get back to them when I could, but I had a full-time job.I quickly realized I was becoming a bottleneck to getting information out.

So I sat down with my good friend Amanda Byby, who was in a similar situation (caring deeply about end-of-life practices) and willing to talk about it.She was also being given out as someone who “knew something.”So the two of us sat down and said, “You know what we could do? Put together a website that provides all the information we know, that anyone can access anytime.”Instead of saying, “Here’s Kate’s contact” or “Here’s Amanda’s contact,” people could say, “Go to solarrecycle.org.”

Aaron NicholsMmm. And the information that you’re looking for should be there. Well, how long has this been in the making? Because I know it just came out last week officially, right?

Kate CollardsonWell, last week officially, a different thing happened. We launched the website in 2021.So it’s been out there and people have been using it. What we quickly realized is that we were a volunteer organization, and volunteers couldn’t keep up with the changes happening.We’re a nascent industry (especially the recycling part) so there’s a lot that needed to change.We weren’t able to act quickly enough to provide the best information at all times.So we decided that SEIA, who was getting into recycling as a topic they wanted to support, could take it further.We worked with them and ended up passing the website off to SEIA.

Aaron NicholsOkay. And last week SEIA launched SolarRecycle.org under the SEIA umbrella. Got it, okay. So your baby grew up and you sent her to college.

Kate CollardsonYes, that’s a good way of putting it.

Aaron NicholsOkay, yeah. You mentioned something before we started recording about why you think the solar industry is special in one very particular regard. Would you like to elaborate?

Kate CollardsonYeah. We get a lot of bad press around how there’s “nothing to do” with solar at the end of its life.A) That’s not true. But B) we’re really young and just coming up to needing to recycle.We are the first industry in history to impose recycling on ourselves before it became a problem.Other industries wait until they run out of materials or the government steps in and says, “You have a waste problem, fix it.”We didn’t wait. We said, “We built this industry in the name of sustainability, we need sustainable solutions for our equipment at end of life.”We’re figuring it out before it becomes a crisis, and I’m really proud of that.

Aaron NicholsThis is one of my deepest life principles: never take life advice from people who aren’t trying.That might sound like a segue, but it reminds me of Peace Corps. I met so many critics who had never actually done humanitarian work.Same thing happens with solar — people criticize it without ever doing anything to help.An elderly relative once told me it takes years for solar panels to produce more energy than it took to make them. I asked, “How many years does it take a piece of coal?”We can’t take criticism from people who aren’t trying.Following that idea — what are the major obstacles we’re facing in recycling solar panels and end-of-life?

Kate CollardsonThere are a few. First, we built solar panels to last decades outdoors without service — now we want to take them apart easily.Those two ideas don’t mix well.So we’re still experimenting with different recycling methods to find the most efficient one.You can take off the aluminum frame — that’s easy to recycle. Then the junction box, which has electronics and metals.What’s left — the laminate — is the hardest: glass, backsheet, cells, and bus bars.Silver is the most valuable material, but it’s hard to access.Some recyclers cut off the backsheet with heated knives, but that only works if the glass is intact.Others grind and sort the materials or use chemical processes to separate them.Different companies are testing all these methods right now.

Another big problem is economics. In 20 years, module costs have dropped dramatically due to dematerialization — thinner frames, thinner glass, less silver.That’s great for cost but bad for recyclers, because there’s less valuable material to extract.So as the commodity became cheaper, the incentive for recycling dropped too.

Aaron NicholsWhat about electronic components? Is there anything in there that can be reused, or are they just destroyed at end of life?

Kate CollardsonReuse is something I absolutely advocate for. On SolarRecycle.org, we not only track recycling and policy — we also track where to donate used equipment for second-life use.A system that’s end-of-life for one person might still have plenty of life left for someone else.Electronics, like inverters, have robust recycling options — just like phones and computers.So yes, there are definitely ways to reuse or recycle electronic components responsibly.

Aaron NicholsSo what about for us as an EPC that’s sometimes removing old panels to put on new ones… where do we start?

Kate CollardsonGreat question. Recycling isn’t free, you pay to recycle.Unfortunately, landfilling panels is cheaper right now.Some distributors, like CED, will take used or end-of-life panels and consolidate them for recycling.So EPCs should calculate the recycling cost upfront, pass it to the customer as a line item, and deliver panels to a consolidation point.There are more and more of these cropping up nationwide.

Aaron NicholsI met someone from We Recycle Solar at the ASES Conference, they donate the glass to local artists who paint on it and sell the pieces.

Kate CollardsonOh, that’s great. There are all kinds of things you can do with used panels. Art is absolutely one of them.There are folks here in Wyoming doing something similar. You can make tables out of them, you can do all kinds of creative things.Of course, the world only needs so many solar panel tables. But I’m happy that we care and that we’re trying.It’s unfortunate that recyclers have to pay for panels to be recycled, but as costs come down and legislation evolves, this will improve.

If the company is motivated, they can make recycling part of their standard process. It just becomes part of the cost of doing business.Over time, as the industry matures and we have more material coming offline, the cost will come down.Policies like landfill bans or recycling fees, similar to what we pay for tires, paint, or batteries, could fund recycling sustainably.

Aaron NicholsYou’re so right. Well, what would you change first if you had a magic wand? What one big thing would you change about recycling in solar?

Kate CollardsonIf I could change anything, I’d like us to get behind the idea of a half-penny per watt to pay for today’s recycling needs.If we, as an industry, agreed on something small and fair like that, it could fund recycling sustainably.In Europe, there’s already a small fee that covers recycling from manufacture to consumer.We could do the same if the industry chose to, and it would help us live up to our sustainability promises.

Aaron NicholsWell, since we’ve been doing this interview series, I’ve ended every show with the same question.This started because I went to my grandma’s 80th birthday party and realized she was born in a world where the Rural Electrification Act had just happened.Renewables didn’t exist yet. The first PV cell was 1954, Jimmy Carter put panels on the White House in 1979, and now solar prices have absolutely cratered.So, just for fun, what do you think clean energy looks like 80 years from now?

Kate CollardsonI think we’ll use a lot less energy. Homes and businesses will be far more efficient.Although, data centers might challenge that.Hopefully we’ll be fully renewable, and technology will be so efficient we won’t need as much generation.

Aaron NicholsThat’s a great hope. Thanks. Kate, where can people find you if they want to connect?

Kate CollardsonLinkedIn is the best place. Or at industry events like the NABCEP conference.

Aaron NicholsAmazing. Well, thank you everyone for listening. I hope you enjoyed today’s episode.If you’re watching on YouTube, please subscribe. If you’re on Substack, drop your email and I’ll send you more like this.That’s been This Week in Solar.

Kate CollardsonThanks for having me.

They discuss her secret to creating “boring” systems that scale businesses by holding the weight so the people don’t have to.

You can connect with Jesse on LinkedIn here.

Listen to this episode here, or on:

* YouTube

* Apple Podcasts

* Spotify

Expect to learn:

* How the Entrepreneurial Operating System (EOS) can bridge the gap between a visionary leader’s big ideas and daily technical execution.

* Why putting design and engineering at the center of your workflow ensures every project passes inspection on the first go-around.

Quote from the episode:

“The further you go downstream, the more difficult it is to catch the chaos before it becomes chaotic... Operations is oftentimes invisible until something breaks.” — Jesse Callahan

Transcript:

Aaron Nichols: Jesse, you built a solar company inside an established roofing company. Is that right? Did I get that right? And if that is right, what did that take and how did you make that happen?

Jesse Callahan: I did. I started the position back in April of last year, and we really started the business within the roofing company in June or July. So we had about six months to get to output—basically starting to install these systems from sales to install. Initially, I was hired to build out the division, the team, and develop the product. Then we got someone else on board who focused on the sales and development component.

When it comes to selling solar, especially in the climate we were in just about to lose the ITC (Investment Tax Credit), the selling component was pretty straightforward and captured a lot of interest. Going that route with the solar and roof model does two things: it presents the customer with two types of investment where the solar sits under the lifetime of the roof. One pinch point I’ve noticed in the residential industry is the R&Rs—the remove and reinstalls of old systems for a reroof. This model solves that. It also takes advantage of the capital the customer already has; they’ve already recognized they need a roof and established financing.

Aaron Nichols: Mm-hmm.

Jesse Callahan: The branding and marketing wasn’t a barrier. I noticed the real challenge was the ops infrastructure—acting as the architect of the entire solar division. I see a disconnect often in this industry between what’s sold versus what’s installed. I was able to catch that during development to ensure we maintained client promises.

Because of the year-end rush, everyone with solar experience was already employed. I had to hire a crew with no previous solar experience and, in a very short window, get them ready for that push. We actually exceeded our benchmarks with a small crew.

Aaron Nichols: Nice.

Jesse Callahan: And we had more than just solar-only scopes. Here in Oregon, we’re moving into more complex territory with battery incentives and utility encouragement. We haven’t done whole-home backup yet, but we were able to exceed industry benchmarks even with complex scopes, like working on metal standing seams in the height of the Oregon winter on 50 to 72-panel installs. We ended Q4 with a lot of pride.

Aaron Nichols: That’s amazing. Congratulations. And for anyone listening, welcome back to This Week in Solar. I’m your host, Aaron Nichols, the Research and Policy Specialist here at Exact Solar in Newtown, Pennsylvania. Today we are interviewing Jesse Callahan from Ironhead Roofing. Jesse, would you just introduce yourself real quick and talk about your day-to-day job?

Jesse Callahan: Absolutely. I’ve been in solar for seven to eight years, but in construction since I was 17. I started as a drafter/designer. In an EPC (Engineering, Procurement, and Construction) model, design and engineering are the center of the workflow. I kept recognizing a disconnect between what was promised and what was technically possible. I found myself bridging that gap through SOPs and workflows, which eventually landed me in operations. Today, my day-to-day is a mix of execution, standardization, and building systems.

Aaron Nichols: Fantastic. You’ve worked in a lot of home service companies. What is one thing you often see these companies struggling with, and what is the best way to fix it?

Jesse Callahan: Specifically in solar, I believe the “Ops-led EPC” is the best model because there are so many variables. Design and engineering dictate the middle ground between the promise to the customer and the physical install. It has a massive influence on your KPIs. For example, every install we’ve done passed inspection on the first try.

The key is developing workflow standards and guardrails. Residential solar is complex because you are retrofitting into existing electrical systems. If you don’t catch technical issues early, the homeowner might suddenly have to dish out an additional $14k. You can’t expect the sales team to catch what an electrician would, so you need handoff standards and risk assessment early in the process.

Aaron Nichols: Right, and it often lives in one person’s head somewhere, right?

Jesse Callahan: Exactly, and that’s not sustainable. When I built systems in previous roles, the system stayed with me. If I left, it would break. Now, my priority is making sure the systems hold the weight, not the person.

Aaron Nichols: So, what do you have to keep an eye on as a company grows and things start to break?

Jesse Callahan: You need to develop a system that is “boring” and scalable. You need to train your team to make decisions without you. I’m a big fan of EOS (Entrepreneurial Operating System). It emphasizes roles over titles. You have a “Visionary” at the top for big ideas, and an “Integrator” below them to implement those ideas. Without an integrator, you end up with three different departments developing three different ways of doing things.

Aaron Nichols: Right. And meetings can often be just what people schedule when they don’t know what else to do.

Jesse Callahan: Definitely. I’ve been in so many meetings where I walk away with more questions than answers.

Aaron Nichols: I was a freelancer before Exact Solar, and I noticed entrepreneurs can be very wordy. They aren’t always good at filtering their big ideas.

Jesse Callahan: There’s definitely a disconnect there. Being in ops, I’m in the details every day. It’s hard to rip out of that and speak at a high level. But you have to learn to make it concise—three sentences with numbers involved to get the point across to leadership.

Aaron Nichols: How did you structure your messaging to customers when you launched solar inside a roofing company?

Jesse Callahan: Honesty. Solar customers need honesty right now. We are selling a “generating facility” to a homeowner. We have to be transparent. If something is caught in design that changes the plan, we have to explain the “why” using tech specs they can visualize. I also view the “onboarding” or handoff as a quality control measure. If I stay involved and see how a system performs a year later, that’s quality control. It’s about forming a relationship.

Aaron Nichols: Well, Jesse, I could nerd out about these details all day, but we are coming up on time. I ask everyone the same closing question. My grandma is 80; she was born before PV was even invented. Within her lifetime, solar went from non-existent to the lowest-cost form of electricity. What do you think clean energy looks like 80 years from now?

Jesse Callahan: I think the solar market will finally be standardized and won’t be a “separate” construction project. I’d like to see batteries become more efficient and environmentally friendly. I hope the jurisdiction and bureaucracy clean up so it isn’t so politicized. Ideally, a solar system will be built into new construction and last the 50-year lifetime of the home.

Aaron Nichols: Nice. We might just paint it on and it’ll beam electricity to our homes.

Jesse Callahan: Maybe! If we could mimic photosynthesis—the most efficient way to convert sunlight—it wouldn’t even be a question of what resource to use. My ultimate goal for renewable energy is a “closed-loop” system that mimics the environment. Input, output, input, output.

Aaron Nichols: Thank you so much, Jesse. Where can people find you?

Jesse Callahan: LinkedIn under Jesse Callahan. We are Ironhead Solar in the Willamette Valley. I also want to shout out “Solar for Women.” Riley is an excellent leader there.

Aaron Nichols: I know Riley! She lives right down the road from me.

Jesse Callahan: No way! That’s crazy. Yeah, it’s a great resource to get more women involved in technical leadership.

Aaron Nichols: Well, thank you, Jesse. And for everyone listening, that’s been This Week in Solar.

Laura shares her journey from journalist and yoga teacher to the front lines of international solar business development.

They dive into what solar companies do wrong when communicating with homeowners and what the U.S. market can learn from the necessity-driven clean energy innovation happening across Latin America and the Caribbean.

You can listen to this episode here, or on:

* YouTube

* Apple Podcasts

* Spotify

Connect with Laura on LinkedIn here.

Expect to Learn:

* How local solar installers can actually foster 25-year relationships by solving the orphan system crisis.

* Why extreme weather and grid instability in Latin America and the Caribbean have turned solar into a non-negotiable tool for community resilience.

Quotes:

“We measure our industry in megawatts, but customers measure us in watts... our reputation is being measured on uptime and what is actually being delivered to the light switch.”

— Laura Gutierrez

“Installers should shift their mind from ‘new solar and on to the next’ to how they can cultivate this relationship. You are in energy management; there is a lot more for you to capture from that customer over a lifetime.”

— Laura Gutierrez

Transcript

Aaron Nichols: Laura, when we spoke before recording, you told me that we measure our industry in megawatts, but customers measure us in watts. It’s a great quote, and I would love to hear you elaborate on it.

Laura Gutierrez: Yeah, well because you know during my time in solar distribution we would see you know what were the gigawatts sold, the megawatts sold, how much you know equipment was being sold and out there but when the solars call you Hey, the inverters or something’s going wrong with the system, know, the homeowners are upset that they’re not thinking about megawatts or gigawatts. They’re thinking, hey, my light switch isn’t working or I’m paying X amount of kilowatt hours that, you know, I wasn’t supposed to be paying on my bill. You know, they’re not looking at megawatts, gigawatts. They’re counting on the watts that they’re paying. So even though as company, we think, OK, our growth was projected on the megawatts. our reputation and what we’re delivering is still being measured on watts delivered or on know uptime of these watts so it’s a macro but the micro level is still so important and and every

Aaron Nichols: Mm-hmm. Yeah, you mentioned before we were recording that we’re thinking nationally and we’re forgetting about the local. Did I paraphrase that right?

Laura Gutierrez: No, that’s exactly where my thoughts are. We’re thinking about how can we advance global renewable energy targets and deployment, but we forget that it’s still happening at a micro level, at a regional level. It’s how many homes went solar in this community, in the one next door. Okay, what about the city 20 minutes north of it, or the city 20 minutes and it’s out of it. this is still happening at a very slow boots on the ground level and it’s still individual homeowners, individual families that are saying yes to the idea, that are saying yes to the solution. So we still have to think about every single watt. Promise needs to be delivered and broken promises not only you know affect that single homeowner, but these are business models that rely a lot on referrals. So one unhappy customer is going to tell their neighbor or their sibling or their family members and once the word starts getting around that, I you know my solar doesn’t work. or something went on with my solar, or they told me that I was gonna have savings and I’m still paying double bills. The word gets around fast and installers still need to deliver on their promises so that they can continue to get referrals. And coming from door-to-door sales, coming from working from one of the larger installers in the US, referrals.

Aaron Nichols: Amen. For anyone listening, welcome back to This Week in Solar. As always, I’m your host, Aaron Nichols, the storytelling and policy specialist here at Exact Solar in Newtown, Pennsylvania. And I’m very excited about my guest today, Laura Gutierrez, because when I made a post on LinkedIn and just celebrated the women who have come onto This Week in Solar so far, which it still amazes me that anyone wants to come onto a brand new show. And when I asked... who, which women in the industry I should interview next, there were four people that messaged me and said, you have to talk to Laura Gutierrez. No one else had as many responses or as many people pointing to them as someone awesome. So I’m very excited that I’m meeting you, Laura. And would you like to just spend some time introducing yourself?

Laura Gutierrez: Please. Well, first of all, Erin, thank you so much. I’m more than humbled that industry colleagues or friends were kind enough to recommend me. I still sometimes, you know, think, my god, six years in solar, wow, what a long time. But yeah, I guess I started six years ago. I was telling you a little earlier. My background was in journalism when I moved to the US pre-pandemic. I had a full-blown yoga business. I was teaching at hotels in Miami, different yoga studios, private classes online. I had a full-blown wellness business going for me. The pandemic hit. I was, you know, my God, what’s gonna happen? I need to find a new way to develop income. At the same time, I had started my master’s degree in sustainability. And you know, casually one of my good friends was working in the solar industry and said, hey, you should come learn about solar. I think you would really like this. And you know, I wasn’t not only intrigued because I was doing, you know, hundreds of sun salutations a day. So I was, you know, thinking about solar and then think, how can I bring this energy into my life? And someone says, hey, you should really think about solar. You should come and learn about this. And I’m like, well, okay. Yeah, this sounds great. So they invited me to this trip to Texas. Midland, Texas. Midland Odessa. know, small place, oil town in Texas. And you know, this is my first trip. I don’t know really much about solar besides the clean energy and you know, it’s free energy.

Aaron Nichols: you

Laura Gutierrez: I go and you know, what’s this all about? So take my trip. I’m out there, you know, chilly Texas, December, and suddenly this blizzard hits. my God, power’s out, nobody has power, thousands of homeowners, what’s happening? know, it’s Texas, it’s hot, what is this blizzard? Everything is frozen, nothing is working. So I got to see it like real time. What is the impact of, you know, having solar, having backup power and how it can... either improve homeowners’ lives or really put them in a really uncomfortable spot. I think the communities were out of power for more than a week in some instances. So that was really a key moment of like, wow, this really has the power to impact a lot of homes and a lot of families. So I was like, wow, this isn’t really... maybe it’s just something that can bring income to my life for a while, this is something that is huge. So I went back to Florida and I’m like, okay, I really think that this is something that we need to bring to our community. And of course, know, Florida being in a hurricane zone, we’re always also in these moments where we need to have... Community resilience we need to have backup power for hurricanes for storms and and that’s kind of where it all started so I went from working in Door-to-door sales and then you know escalated got into solar distribution and ultimately that led me to to start my own business and And that’s kind of where where I’m at today

Aaron Nichols: I love non-traditional paths. It’s always just, I mean, I got really excited when you told me that story before we started recording because as anyone listening to this show knows, I fell into solar because two circus girls that I met on the beach in Ecuador invited me to knock doors with them.

Laura Gutierrez: Thanks, all.

Aaron Nichols: and I’m now talking to major news outlets and trying to represent the industry and it’s just amazing seeing someone like you who didn’t follow a traditional path. We also have yoga teaching in common. you’re the first person I’ve met who has kind of a similar story to how I got into the industry, which is amazing.

Laura Gutierrez: in. Let’s some sea we belong.

Aaron Nichols: We do, or yeah, we’re just fiery enough to make our own space here.

Laura Gutierrez: That’s a beautiful way to put it. And honestly for me, given the years, what keeps me here is the purpose. You’re really helping people. You’re really doing something to advance clean energy and doing it in a responsible and ethical way.

Aaron Nichols: Totally.

Laura Gutierrez: That’s what I think is going to be the most important thing. The industry is changing so much. Installers are working with so many different variables. The rules are changing almost on a monthly basis. If you stick to the reason why you’re doing this, why you believe in it, the path is always going to be rocky, but there’s always going to be a north star that will drive you there.

Aaron Nichols: Right. And I know that you’ve since ended up working with a lot of service customers. And as we both know, especially having come from door to door, there’s been a dark side to the solar industry in the last few years. And there’s been just companies that didn’t set expectations well or installed something and then vanished, leaving people with something that didn’t quite work on their roofs. And... I think that there’s something that is often missed. I’m very lucky that I work for a really established, fantastic company that’s been around for 20 years, but I think there’s something that is often missed in the initial conversation where we don’t quite set the expectations with a homeowner or business owner about what service is gonna look like or realistically what’s gonna happen. So why do you think we haven’t been so good at setting service expectations upfront as an industry.

Laura Gutierrez: I think a few things contribute to that. One is that people, well, many people could have sold the idea that you put the solar on the roof, it’s going to be there 25 years, 30 years, you forget about it, and then it’s going to be a problem 30 years from now. But it’s like a pool. When people put a pool in their house, they have a pool boy, right? You have someone that comes every 30 days, every 45 days to check the chlorine, check the levels to check if you know if the water is still good if the if the motors going well you know you still need a service that you don’t just put a pool and forget about it and okay you know so solar is like that you know you have wire you have optimizers that can fail micro inverters you know these are these are technologies that either have firmware updates or you know many things can go wrong. it’s not really something that you just slap on the roof and forget about it. So I think that a lot of these companies saw that the growth was increasing deployment quarter after quarter. You they had to keep these investors happy and you know, you can’t just install and forget about it. So the service part wasn’t sold or wasn’t communicated at the beginning. And I think a lot of people weren’t expecting that maybe someone has to come out, take a look at it every year, every two years to see the small module level electronics, is everything working well? Are the connections still working? There’s a lot of things that... that could happen that are not seen because it’s on the roof. So you need to have your solar pool boy comment and check out your infrastructure, especially, you know, these are systems that were promised to have uptime and deliver value and savings for at least 25 years. So I think it wasn’t communicated initially. And now, you know, we’ve had systems that have been deployed 15, 10 years ago. that are now starting to see, okay, well, something’s up with the roof, you know, they’re checking their app, it’s not working, and the installer went out of business, or they’re not there anymore, so who do these people call? They’re paying two bills, they were supposed to have savings, now I’m paying my FPL bill, but I’m also paying my solar bill, and they don’t know who to call, and this can cause, you know, your extreme... anger and know despair and there’s not a lot of people that are focused out there solving this problem and you know picking up the phone when these homeowners don’t really have anywhere to go.

Aaron Nichols: Yeah, do you, so I think we probably need to think of it more like an appliance, right? More like a refrigerator. Like you buy a refrigerator, you buy a washing machine with the understanding that it’s gonna make your life better, but there’s a chance that it could break. And if that happens, like someone will come and fix it, especially if you’re still under warranty.

Laura Gutierrez: I think that is beautifully said. Especially because, you know, this is supposed to last 25 years. Like your agreements, your lease agreement, your loan agreement, you you’re paying for this infrastructure for 25 years. Someone needs to take a look at it. Someone needs to make sure that... it’s delivering what it promised so that you can actually see the savings and you can actually enjoy reducing your carbon footprint because it’s not worth anything if it’s on your roof and you’re not receiving the benefits. And what’s most important is not only that it works but that you continue to have the homeowners trust. And I think what this industry has you know, kind of drop the ball on is maintaining the homeowner or the business owners trust in what they bought or what they signed up for. And making sure that it works is part of that.

Aaron Nichols: Red. So do you think that installers maybe need to sell service plans upfront instead of just saying, just call me and I’ll fix it? Or what do you think the future of service needs to look like?

Laura Gutierrez: I think, yes, I think that customers, well installers, need to offer service as something that needs to be done. So when you saw, you know, in the past what I saw a lot was that, yeah, sign up for your lease or sign up for your solar, you know, you’re gonna have free service for 25 years. But free service, you know, if they’re not incentivized to have a continuous service business, they’re incentivized to get, you know, new solar on the roof, a new project. That’s how they’re seeing that they’re gaining revenue and, you know, they’re advancing towards their goals. You know, going back to fix whatever was, you know, done a year ago or two years ago, three years ago, there was no really incentive there for them to actually want to pursue and keep this business model alive. So I think that if we reimagine the business model, and you know, of course we want new solar, that’s the only way that we’re gonna get to our targets. We’re gonna continue to grow the industry. But there’s a lot of opportunity in these service deserts. And you can have your same business and have these different revenue streams and it’s only gonna help you get to a healthier business. So if we communicate these things upfront and say, okay, well, my service isn’t gonna be free. Maybe I’m gonna come out there once a year. Maybe you’re gonna get, you’re gonna pay a small fee monthly or bi-monthly or you can be creative with how you wanna create these service plans, but. There’s a value in someone looking at your system. There’s a value in someone at the company is making sure that your uptime is there if they get an alert. So there’s a lot of value and a lot of revenue opportunities that installers are maybe overlooking. And I think that maintaining that trust, you’re in energy management. There’s a lot more that if you continue to harvest that relationship, there’s a lot more for you to capture from that customer, especially for a 25 year, for your lifetime. You you can get creative. Well, maybe, you know, the natural plugin is maybe now they need help with your HVAC, or maybe they want to get an EV charger, or maybe they’re okay, I didn’t want a battery at the beginning, but I need a battery now because I realized that the last three years we’ve been hit with three hurricanes. So. installer should shift their mind from new solar and on to the next but how can I cultivate this relationship and how can I continue to foster it so that I can still be there, be the person of choice. Hey something’s not looking right can you come get someone out there? Okay well the installer is going to be incentivized to go and send someone fast because they still have recurring revenue and they’re still you know getting incentive from this customer and not just offering that relationship for free for the next 25, 30 years. So if we can get more creative and we can really think about, okay, let’s get more solar deployed, but let’s make sure that the existing infrastructure is really working and how I can continue to have this relationship for 25 years. you can get so much more from this customer relationship. And I think that’s what we’re focusing on.

Aaron Nichols: Yeah, and I mean, obviously if you have monthly revenue coming in, it’s almost like insurance where you have a pool of money to deal with issues as they come up and obviously not everyone’s system is gonna break at the same time. So as we’re dealing with... I mean, in the last couple of years, we’ve seen the collapse of some pretty major national installers that left a lot of homeowners without people to service their systems. As we’re seeing things like that, installers growing really big, really fast, and then not being able to fulfill their promises to people, how can we, like how can I, as someone who works for a great local installer, how can companies like us just rebuild trust in solar across the country?

Laura Gutierrez: I think we need to acknowledge first of all, you know, where we might have dropped the ball. as an industry and you know what we can do to fix it immediately is first we gotta get those systems back on uptime we need to send someone out there we need to see you know help them deal with if this is an RMA issue like we need us boots on the ground and really listen to these people who are hurting you know they gave you they gave the industry a vote of confidence and they put money they you know signed up for a loan they’re in it you know We need to help them first. We need to build the trust and we need to say, okay, you know, this is a infrastructure that you’ve invested in for 30 years. It’s almost like it’s alive. You know, you need to look at it. You need to take care of it. So I think being honest about where if it was your company, if it was one that you picked up the project from, we need to be honest about like, okay, what’s really going on here and really just go out of our way and do that extra mile to make sure we build a happy customer again, because they’re gonna refer you. and they’re gonna talk to someone, you know, hey, I didn’t know and someone referred you to me, four different people referred to me. So imagine the power of a homeowner who is hurt, who feels, you know, cheated. I don’t know, they can feel many things and you change that storyline for them, it’s just opens so many doors. And I think that’s what we have to do.

Aaron Nichols: Yeah. So just do good work.

Laura Gutierrez: Just do good work, make sure the solar is working and make sure, you know, a customer doesn’t have to chase you down. We get calls. I’ve been chasing six months, seven months, eight months since one of my microinverters failed. Nobody’s picking up the phone. You pick up the phone, show your face, talk to people, be there, you know, that’s what we got to do.

Aaron Nichols: Right. Keep your promises. So, to take the conversation in another direction, one thing that I want to make sure I ask you about, because you have the incredible gift to be bilingual and to have your feet into different cultures, which is something I’m very, very jealous of. I wish I had grown up speaking another language. And I’m interested... Because you’ve also worked to deploy solar across Latin America, I’m interested what the markets are, what’s alike and what’s different in those markets and what can we learn from Latin America.

Laura Gutierrez: I think... Necessity drives innovation in very different ways. What maybe drives people in the Caribbean is not necessarily what drives them in Latin America, but over there it’s not like an issue of clean or traditional energy. It’s that we need energy and we need more and we need it to be reliable. what I think, how I can compare and contrast is that in different Caribbean countries, they’re paying excessive amounts per kilowatt hour. They need, all the Caribbean, hurricanes are hitting. three times, four times a year. Look what just happened in Jamaica a few months ago. They need power, they need reliable, for clinics, for industrial, for machinery, like manufacturing, they need power. So it’s not like... something that can be deliberated on too much. Like we need it, what’s the easiest way and how can we integrate it with what we have at hand? Some have gas, some do coal, others have a lot of renewables. And what they’re thinking is more on like, how can we advance the microgrid integrations so that we can use all the different energy sources, we can make them communicate and how can we like Use a little bit of everything so that we have sustainable power when we need it And I think also in Latin America, maybe you know, they’re not really Hurricane targets that much just because of where they’re geographically located, but the grids are not as clean over there So there’s a lot of like brownouts and you know industries need consistent power because if you have for example a hospital, you know if they don’t have consistent power, maybe their vaccine bank might suffer, right? Or an industry, if they have the machinery operating and the grid goes down for even three seconds, that might stop a machine and to get it back online might take a week, might take a month. So that really hurts. industries so they’re really thinking of like okay how do we make sure we are as resilient as we can be so they’re on board you know they’re growing they’re doing policies that are advancing access to clean energy and also let’s not forget about rural communities you know it’s very important that while we’re thinking about gigawatts megawatts there’s a lot of small little towns that still need access to a fridge or maybe a freezer for the lady who makes little ice creams for the kids outside of the community school. So they’re thinking about that. They’re thinking about, they’re still way behind in access to energy. So they’re thinking about that as well. know, they’re not, all the cities are connected to the grid. There’s not a lot of infrastructure in the rural parts of many of these countries. So they’re still on the bandwagon. We need to get power out there to the most rural communities. So necessity has been driving a lot of innovation and growth.

Aaron Nichols: Have you met Robin Swanheiser yet from Twende Solar? she’s great. You should look her up. Twende is a nonprofit that builds solar energy systems all around the world in communities where electrification is the primary need. So they go to places that don’t have electricity and deploy solar. and she’s the executive director. She’s the only employee at the company. The rest is run by volunteers, and I really hope to go on one of their trips and install one of the systems one day.

Laura Gutierrez: I love that. Hey, you should invite me. I would love to. I was just in Honduras about maybe a month ago, two months ago, one of my dear, dear, dear clients, Paola Rodriguez and Richard Hansen, they are also working on deploying solar to the rural communities in Honduras. And sometimes they have to go last mile delivery three hours on a donkey. or on a little canoe to make sure they’re getting that equipment out there. And when they were walking me through the process, showing me the pictures, this is the first meeting I have dropped in tears. Like, my gosh. We’re sitting in our offices thinking about how can we do much more? How can we grow, grow, grow? And just to know that there’s people out there who are really, really doing that last mile, which such passion and such purpose, it just makes me feel like, wow, like we are doing what we need to do. And I think that purpose is just so important, so important. Like it really is my compass for moving forward and. all the creativity that I have or any of the goals that I have for the future. So a lot of that is happening in the Caribbean and Latin America. So they’re moving forward. They need more solar, just more energy in general. And I think that slowly we’re getting there with renewable energy. And I think that’s great.

Aaron Nichols: Yeah, so what we have to learn from Latin America is shut up, solar’s great, just deploy more of it, stop overthinking it.

Laura Gutierrez: Makes me happy. Yeah, I mean, and it doesn’t have to be one thing or the other. We need it all, you know? Let’s think about one minute for like AI and where we’re going with AI. We need more solar. We need more energy everywhere. Like I’m a sustainability student. I just finished my master’s. Like, yeah, I can talk to you all day about the issue of like, you know, oil and gas, but no, we need it all. We need it all. We need, know, communities have different needs. They have different benefits or things that are working for them. It’s not about this is bad, this is good. It’s about how do we make sure that we are building resilient communities and we all need to work together.

Aaron Nichols: Well, I could talk to you all day, but unfortunately we’re coming up on time. So I ask everyone who comes on the show the same closing question, and it has to do with, I spoke at my grandma’s 80th birthday party this summer. And when I was sitting there thinking about what 80 years means, it means that she was born in 1945. So she was born into a world where renewable energy did not exist. mean, PV was only invented in 1954. And so much has happened since then. Like we went from windmills that only pumped water to windmills that generate electricity. We went from PV being this like fringe thing for hippies who were growing stuff in California all the way to today where it’s the cheapest power source. And if you were just to take a wild guess, what do you think clean energy looks like 80 years from now?

Laura Gutierrez: the norm. I think it’s gonna be the norm. It’s not gonna be the only energy source out there, but it’s gonna be the norm. And the more people learn and realize that you, in the way that you can, be more in charge of self-production or community production. Maybe it’s not, you know, everyone has solar on their roof, but... at a regional level, micro communities, they’re all thinking, okay, how can we set ourselves up so that we are energy independent or that we are energy, you know, we have more resilience. So that’s where I think, you know, the norm is gonna be. People are gonna wanna have whatever way that they can to generate their own power, but I think it’s gonna be more towards like... microgrids, regional, like micro communities, everyone’s gonna be like their own little little city of power, of generating power. That’s what I would love to see and that’s what I think the future is gonna take us because what we’ve learned or what we did learn, you know, what your grandma probably learned was, yeah, the utility, we don’t mess with that solar, it’s the utilities job to make sure we get the power. I think moving towards the future, people know that it’s our responsibility. If we really do want to be resilient and have continuous power in the way that we can, we need to take charge of that. And I think that’s where the future will take us, hopefully.

Aaron Nichols: Yeah. Well, thank you so much for coming on today. And if you do want people to find you online, where do you want them to find you?

Laura Gutierrez: Thank you so much for having me, Erin. I think LinkedIn is a great place to find me. You can find me, slash Laura Carolina Gutierrez. I can help you drop that in your notes for later, but I’m so happy to connect with anyone who is curious about my journey, who wants to think of how they can build a service business or what tools are out there. So that you know they can empower and create more revenue streams for their existing business I think that Solar installers have been very creative in the last two years But still you know moving towards next year the next two three years We need to get even more creative and how we can keep our businesses thriving and alive keep deploying clean energy out there. It’s time to put everyone’s head together and really find creative ways so that we can continue to build.

Aaron Nichols: Great way to end and for anyone listening that’s been This Week in Solar.

Laura Gutierrez: Thank you.

* YouTube

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* Spotify

PosiGen Halts Most Operations

What’s new:Residential solar installer PosiGen has ceased most U.S. operations, laying off nearly all of its roughly 500 employees nationwide (though the exact number hasn’t been confirmed).

They attributed the move to “significant financial difficulties,” including a missed interest payment that triggered a lender cash freeze and default notice. The company says it’s seeking new capital or a sale; failing that, it will shut down entirely.

Why it matters:PosiGen focused on low- to moderate-income customers.

This pullback strands customers and contractors. It’s part of a broader residential downturn: 2024 installs fell 31%, and several major national players filed for bankruptcy, including:

* SunPower

* Sunnova

* Mosaic

These bankruptcies make great headlines, but for us at Exact Solar, and for many of the solid, dependable solar companies around the country who have been serving their communities for decades, they reinforce our belief:

Solar should be local.

So many solar installers (like Exact Solar) aren’t trying to grow at any cost and will continue to install high-quality systems and service them for their entire lifetimes.

Solar and Wind Top Coal in First Half of 2025

What’s new:

New EIA data show solar supplied 8.7% of U.S. electricity in the first half of 2025 and 10.2% in June alone. Utility-scale solar output rose 37.6% year over year through June, small-scale climbed 10.7%, and together they grew nearly 30%.

Combined, wind and solar provided 20.3% of U.S. power (more than coal or nuclear). Renewables as a whole (wind, solar, hydro, biomass, geothermal) reached 27.7%, second only to natural gas, which fell 3.7%.

Why it matters:

Solar now generates almost 45% more than hydropower and exceeds hydro, biomass, and geothermal combined.

Even with recent policy changes, developers still expect about half of the new U.S. capacity this year to be solar and another 13% wind.

Team Brunel wins the World Solar Challenge

What’s new:

Delft’s Brunel Solar Team won the 2025 Bridgestone World Solar Challenge’s Challenger Class race yesterday, crossing the finish line first after a grueling 3,021 km race from Darwin to Adelaide.

Official preliminary results show Brunel’s Nuna 13 averaging 86.6 km/h with an event time of 34.9 hours recorded on August 28th.

Why it matters:

The World Solar Challenge is a 3,000-km solar EV race that’s been runing every two years since 1987. Team Brunel’s victory is their eighth world title; they’re the “Michael Jordan” of this event by far.

Here are the rules of the challenge from Bridgestone’s website:

* Solar Panels can have a Maximum area of 6㎡ (spread out across the vehicle)

* Vehicles must have 3 or more wheels, and maximum dimensions are: length 5.8m, width 2.3m, height 1.65m

* 1 driver at a time (Teams must have 3 to 6 designated drivers who take turns driving.)

* Source of Power = Solar energy only

* Clock doesn’t stop once it starts, but charging is allowed overnight, so long as the charging source used solar power to charge.

Personally, I’m a little bummed. I was pulling for the University of Michigan team, since my friends at Optivolt made the solar tech to power their car. But you can’t win em’ all.

Sources:

Residential solar installer PosiGen lays off almost entire workforce

Residential solar installer PosiGen ceases “most of its operations”

Solar is nation’s fastest growing electricity source, expands by 30% in 2025

EIA: Solar and wind leave coal in the dust with record 2025 output | Electrek

Brunel Solar Team

Preliminary Results | Bridgestone World Solar Challenge

Joe shares how Oncore carved out a niche by sourcing land for solar, storage, and EV projects across the U.S., what he’s learned from decades in development, and why he’s still bullish on renewables despite the uncertainty created by the repeal of the IRA.

Here’s his LinkedIn

Expect to Learn:

* How Oncore Origination finds and vets land for utility-scale and distributed generation (DG) projects nationwide.

* The impact of the Inflation Reduction Act’s repeal on developers

* Why some customers are pivoting toward storage.

Quotes from the Episode:

“At the end of the day, no matter what policies or technology come and go, if you can’t secure good land, nothing happens.” – Joe Tassone

“If you don’t believe in this business, then get out of it. But if you do, keep developing—even in times of chaos.” – Joe Tassone

Transcript:

Aaron Nichols:Hello, everybody, and welcome back to This Week in Solar. I'm your host, Aaron Nichols, the Research and Policy Specialist here at Exact Solar in Newtown, Pennsylvania.

And as part of our short interview series that we're doing with veterans of the clean energy industry, today we have brought on Joe Tassone. Joe, will you introduce yourself, talk a little bit about who you are and what you do?

Joe Tassone:Yeah, Aaron, thank you very much—very honored to be on your cast here, especially as you are an influencer in our industry and doing great things. So thank you.

I'm one of the founders of Encore Origination. We started the company—I originally started back in 2017, and we rebranded in 2022. I have two partners, Ryan and Corey, and we found a niche in the industry for clean energy renewables to actually go out and find land, find projects for solar and battery storage, and now we’re doing a lot of EV all around the country.

We don’t consider ourselves landmen, we’re not full-scale developers, but all of the partners and even most of the management team have an extensive development background. We come from wireless telecom since the mid-90s—we probably have done 5,000 projects in very intense environments with short timelines, lots of pressure, even litigation. We learned the development game and how to process and get projects done in a timely manner, and how to understand land very well.

This business doesn’t always do a great job with that. A lot of developers are good people, but we saw the opportunity to use our skills to find good projects, working with IPPs and developers. For years we had one client—now we have 15 to 20 across nearly 20 states, doing everything from utility-scale battery storage to solar and distributed generation. I’m based in upstate New York.

We offer a higher value by finding good projects. At the end of the day, no matter what happens with policy, equipment, or financing, you can’t do anything without good land or rooftops. If I can sit with a landowner, get the signature, and build that relationship, then you can make projects happen.

In the last six months alone, we’ve originated over a gigawatt of projects—legitimate signed landowner contracts, vetted projects with 50 data points approved by our customers. Not all of those will make it through interconnection or due diligence, but that’s the business.

Aaron Nichols:My career so far has been in “behind the meter,” where business or homeowners own the system. What Joe does is originate land for projects that are utility-scale. Forgive me if I’m wrong there.

Joe Tassone:Yeah—utility-scale or distributed generation. Most of it is DG, which stands for distributed generation. Think of a five-megawatt AC community solar project, or a five-megawatt, 20-hour battery site—that’s probably 60–70% of our business. Utility-scale DG and even behind-the-meter are conceptually the same: you need good projects, you need land control, and you need to build relationships.

Aaron Nichols:So how are you expecting the repeal of the Inflation Reduction Act to affect what you do at Encore Origination?

Joe Tassone:Obviously it’s not a feel-good moment. It’s disruptive. Some of our solar customers have paused or pivoted more toward batteries. But there are still shoes to drop—like Treasury’s safe harbor rules. Experts think they won’t be too bad, but we’ll know soon.

For our company, we’re doing fine. We’re getting new customers every week, expanding, and hiring. I’ve been through tough times before—after 9/11 in telecom, the entire industry stopped building for two years. It was painful. But the business survived.

So while this hurts, I still believe in renewables. You can’t run a business forever on a 30% credit. Costs inflated and people got comfortable. Short term, it’s painful. Long term, if government pulls out, businesses will adapt and have to be profitable. Energy demand keeps rising, utility rates are going up, and renewables are too big to fail.

Even now, companies are securing $50–300 million in development capital despite the chaos. That tells you this business is not going away.

Aaron Nichols:That’s so good to hear. I’ve also heard people frame today’s antagonism as proof that we’re a real threat to the fossil fuel industry.

Joe Tassone:Absolutely. The antagonism shows how disruptive we are. Energy isn’t perfect—solar and wind are intermittent—but the truth is, we can’t do without them. Utilities, construction firms, even big banks know this. Governors are petitioning federal agencies to release land because projects mean jobs. This isn’t going away.

Aaron Nichols:There’s a quote I love: “First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.” I think we’re firmly in step three. For young people like me, who came in during a rosy time after the IRA, how do we build the stamina to keep bashing our heads against this rock like veterans have?

Joe Tassone:Great question. First, persistence. Day by day. Fear can motivate you, but it can also paralyze you. Winston Churchill said, “When you’re going through hell, keep on going.” That applies here.

Second, be a sponge. Learn everything—finance, interconnection, policy, land. The more you understand, the more adaptable you’ll be.

Third, don’t stop developing. Development takes years. One of my projects in Massachusetts took seven years from origination to compensation. If you stop developing during downturns, you won’t have assets in the pipeline when things recover.

Finally, be smart with resources. Don’t overspend and flame out, but don’t be too conservative either. The winners are the ones who kept going when no one else did.

Aaron Nichols:That’s so helpful. And it’s true—state and local policy have always driven the majority of progress. Federal news gets attention, but states move the needle.

Joe Tassone:Exactly. Look at New York—strong programs and incentives. States adjust as needed, because they need the energy and the jobs. And internationally, countries like China are building solar and storage at massive scale. We’re competing globally. Cool heads will prevail—we just need to be smart.

Aaron Nichols:So to close, I’ve been asking guests a moonshot question. My grandma was born in 1945—into a world without renewable energy. Within her lifetime we went from no PV cells to affordable solar. What do you think clean energy will look like 80 years from now?

Joe Tassone:Technologies always get smaller. I see microgrids—communities powered independently with solar, batteries, maybe technologies we don’t even know yet. Gas lines to houses may look as outdated as telephone lines.

I think we’ll see un-tethered, grid-independent communities. Maybe we’ll be painting solar cells onto surfaces. Hard to imagine exactly, but the direction is clear: more independence, more decentralization, and much more efficiency.

Aaron Nichols:Hopefully so. Joe, thank you so much for coming on today. Where can people find you?

Joe Tassone:On LinkedIn—Joe Tassone Jr.—or at Encore Origination’s website.

Aaron Nichols:Thank you, Joe. And for everyone listening, that’s been This Week in Solar.

Call your senators and advocate for the Inflation Reduction Act’s Clean Energy Tax Credits.

In the meantime, I wanted to highlight some positive developments for the solar industry this week.

I think we all need it.

1. Texas anti-solar bills die in House, and Texas passes bill to fast-track home solar

What's new:

Three major anti-renewable energy bills (SB 819, SB 388, and SB 715) failed to move forward before the Texas House's legislative deadline. SB 1202, a bill to expedite permitting for home solar + battery systems, passed the Texas legislature and heads to Gov. Abbott.

This move bought Texas Solar companies more time, since the Texas Legislature convenes every two years in odd-numbered years. The next regular session is scheduled to start on January 12, 2027.

Why it matters:

The bills would have imposed heavy restrictions on solar, wind, and battery storage in Texas. The new law reduces delays and lowers costs for families installing backup power, especially after crises like Winter Storm Uri.

Go deeper:

Bills that died:

* SB 819 would have added Extra fees and permitting hurdles for renewables only.

* SB 388 would have required half of the new ERCOT generation to come from non-battery, "dispatchable" sources.

* SB 715 would've forced existing renewable projects to add expensive backup systems.

Over 100 groups opposed these bills, and their legislative blitz has been successful this legislative round.

Bill that passed:

Senate Bill 1202's new benefits for solar:

* Homeowners can use third-party engineers to get immediate approval to start construction.

* Regulatory authorities must issue final permits within two business days.

If not vetoed by the Governor's office, the bill will become law on September 1, 2025.

2. Tariff loophole could open on June 2

What's new:

The American Alliance for Solar Manufacturing warns that a clerical delay could let tariffed Southeast Asian solar panels enter the U.S. without paying duties.

Why it matters:

Millions of solar panels could enter untaxed, undermining the newly approved anti-dumping tariffs that the International Trade Commission claims will protect U.S. manufacturers of solar panels.

Go deeper:

* Preliminary tariffs from Dec. 4, 2024, expire after 180 days (on June 1). If the ITC doesn't publish its final decision in the Federal Register by June 2, products can enter tariff-free. A similar loophole already allowed products to skip countervailing duties back in February.

* Imports from Cambodia, Malaysia, Thailand, and Vietnam are involved.

3. Wind + solar outpaced coal + nuclear in Q1 2025, Accounting for 98% of new capacity

What's new:

Wind and solar generated 19% of U.S. electricity in Q1 2025 (more than coal or nuclear) per EIA data. Solar and wind made up nearly all new U.S. generating capacity in Q1 2025.

Why it matters:

Renewables are rapidly replacing legacy power sources on the U.S. grid. Despite political headwinds, the market is still choosing renewables.

Go deeper:

* Solar output grew 33.7% year-over-year; wind rose 9.5%. In March alone, solar + wind hit 23.9% of U.S. electricity. Solar now exceeds hydropower generation nationally.

* Solar was 72.3% of all new Q1 capacity; wind was 25.5%.

* Renewables now make up 31.5% of utility-scale generating capacity.

* Solar has been #1 in new capacity for 19 straight months. By 2028, solar could overtake gas.

Our Sources:

Anti-solar bills die in Texas House

Texas legislature passes bill to expedite solar, energy storage permitting – pv magazine USA

Clerical loophole could let Southeast Asian solar panels enter US without antidumping duties

US wind + solar outproduced coal and nuclear in Q1 2025 – EIA | Electrek

FERC: Solar + wind made up 98% of new US power generating capacity in Q1 2025 | Electrek

They discuss why utility-scale solar often faces resistance in rural communities and how long-term trust is really built.

You can connect with Azuraye on Instagram at @yellowbarn.farm or visit her website at yellowbarn.farm

Listen to this episode here, or on:

* YouTube

* Apple Podcasts

* Spotify

Expect to learn:

* The Power of “Social Soil”: Why building trust at the speed of trust is the only way to avoid NIMBYism and community pushback.

* Agrivoltaics and Integration: How combining solar with grazing and microclimates actually improves land fertility and water retention.

* Stacking Functions: Why solar developers should look beyond energy production to solve local needs like noise barriers, shade for livestock, and decentralized power.

Quote from the episode:

“Nature grows slowly and intentionally. And anything that is truly fast and exponential is usually some sort of virus and that’s not usually a good thing... You build trust at the speed of trust.” — Azuraye Wycoff

Transcript:

Aaron Nichols So, Azuraye, welcome and thank you for sitting down with me today. When I was getting ready for this, I was thinking through it and I think you’re one of the people that I respect most in the world. I was like, it’s my wife, my family, Azuraye is very high on the list. And I think it’s because you didn’t have to do any of this. But you’ve worked so hard to create a community and bring a community together. And so I wanted to start with that tone. And if you wouldn’t mind giving anyone who’s listening an overview of who you are and what Yellow Barn Farm is.

Azuraye Wycoff Thank you. It’s quite the honor just to be named that. Yeah, my name is Azuraye Wycoff and I actually grew up on this property where we are right now, Yellow Barn Farm. And it was originally called Autumn Hill, but well before that it was indigenous land. Truly its origination is the home of the Ute, Cheyenne, Arapaho, Shoshone tribes, many others that moved through these foothills for many, many generations and steered to the land in what we now call regenerative agriculture.

So where we are now, what we’re doing now as Yellow Barn Farm is really paying homage to what living in harmony with ecosystems really looks like, but also recognizing where we are in history with technology and energy and innovation that we can’t necessarily live the same way any longer. But what we can do is really live in a holistic integrated way that incorporates everything and really tries to build bridges between all of these different industries and worlds.

Aaron Nichols And would you explain what has been happening with the county?

Azuraye Wycoff So back in December, we got notified by some of our community that the county had plans to do an aerial drone spray of the herbicide rejuvra in the open space county land back behind Elk Green Farm and Yellow Barn Farm. But this had been a plan that had been solidified in their weed management plan back in 2024. But this was the first that we were really getting word that it was coming right up to the edge of our regenerative farms.

Aaron Nichols So to summarize, the county decided what was best for you without consulting you.

Azuraye Wycoff I think the county was doing its best to meet a lot of demands from a lot of different parties.

Aaron Nichols Okay. And you’ve managed to engage, I believe it was more than 1,200 people against this effort. Is that about right?

Azuraye Wycoff Definitely not alone. But yes, with DAR’s help, we sent out a mass campaign on social media, on our newsletters that just made it really easy for people to send an email directly to the county. We had helped with pre-drafting everything, writing the subject line, and addressing it to each of the individual county commissioners so people could just sign their name, add a little bit more information if they wanted to, and press send.

Aaron Nichols Okay. And who else was involved and who else would this affect if it went through?

Azuraye Wycoff A lot of people, a lot of people are involved, a lot of people it affects. A lot of communities in this whole front hill, the foothills region would be affected. Residents, a lot of different agricultural operations along this area. And everyone who got involved, there are so many people to name. It has been truly a community effort. And there are many other people that were pioneering this to combat the use of aerial drone spraying, the pesticides use on open land for years before we came along.

Tess McDonald is a really big name in this area. We’ve had a lot of support from some of the people here, John and Margo, Shana, and just the whole community has really rallied. I’m just really voicing what their concerns are, the way that something like this would affect a bunch of different people downstream, from the people, the animals, the aquatic life, the plants. It’s more than just isolating and targeting one issue, which is right now cheatgrass.

Aaron Nichols Right. And so let’s get a little deeper into the potential consequences if this goes forward. What could that potentially do?

Azuraye Wycoff I mean, man, we’re seeing this in so many arenas in our world right now. It’s just the use of a toxic chemical has so much of a domino effect. You can’t just target one thing in an ecosystem and not expect it to affect everything else in that ecosystem. So while they’re focusing on cheatgrass and trying to stop that seed bank from regrowing every year, it still is harming the seed bank of not just that plant, but everything else around it. It affects the runoff in the rivers downstream. It affects the aquatic life, the invertebrate, it affects any animals that are eating anything from those ecosystems. You can’t just have this one thing target that one issue and not expect to see the ripple effect.

Aaron Nichols And so I think the reason that I wanted to sit down with you is because I work for a solar company. I work in the solar industry. And even though I work in what’s called behind the meter where homes and businesses own their own solar and they’re the people like trying to put it on warehouses and on their home roofs, there’s also the other side of the solar industry which I haven’t had a lot of experience with which is utility scale where people are going in and developing large projects often in rural America. And a lot of solar companies struggle with community engagement and often run up against resistance.

Now, I’m interested, like, why do you think you were able to engage so many people against this effort to spray the herbicide?

Azuraye Wycoff I mean, I think we’ve all seen a lot of the effects of what toxic chemicals can do. I we’re seeing it with the glyphosate that’s sprayed on all of our food right now. We’re seeing it when you try to mass produce a result that you get a really big ripple effect and that’s gonna affect everything from our internal health, it’s gonna affect our children’s health, it’s going to be something that we have to deal with for generations to come and it’s not easy to solve. So I think when you’re looking at things like how do you work with communities rather than enact something without necessarily consulting what might work for a specific community, I think you’re gonna face pushback in any kind of industry.

Aaron Nichols So for any project developers who are listening to this, if they’re going into a community to develop a project, how can they connect with that community and connect with the leaders and work with the community in the right way?

Azuraye Wycoff Geez, I mean, for us, it’s been this idea of social soil. We have relationships with people. We have gotten to know everyone in this entire community over many years, my family being here for 25 some odd years. It’s going to be hard for someone who’s in an industry trying to build relationships because that, at least quickly, because that does move slowly. You build trust at the speed of trust. so I think if you are looking to come into community, it’s really getting to know what their needs are. If you’re coming into a rural community, what matters to them? If you’re coming in with laser focus to just get a project done, and you’ve got enough money behind you to just bulldoze anything in your way, of course you’re gonna hear a lot of pain and pushback because you’re not considering what the needs of that community truly are.

Aaron Nichols And what diverse perspectives do you think we often bulldoze? I know when we were talking before the interview, you were talking about how people work in different silos. They think energy is one silo, agriculture is another silo, these things don’t need to meet and mix. What holistic perspective are we missing that people need to consider?

Azuraye Wycoff I mean, how can you integrate everything? How can you build bridges? How can you do diplomacy, the boots on the ground work that is actually getting to know the people and know what their needs are and actually hopefully stack functions. If you’ve got a solar project coming in, what would it look like instead of being super laser focused or siloed in one industry and saying this is just solar, but saying, we’ve also got agriculture, we’ve got community needs, what could solar do to benefit all of those different industries?

The idea of covering an entire giant swath of empty land with just solar, you’re taking away a really valuable resource that could have been used for grazing cattle. And that grazing cattle is something that actually brings fertility back into the land, which creates coverage for the soil, which prevents things like cheatgrass. We’re dealing with this entire circular system that we’re looking at it only at one point in the entire circle. So when you do that, it’s like whack-a-mole. You’re forever going to be trying to snuff out other issues that arise that you didn’t foresee because you were so focused on one aspect.

Aaron Nichols Right. Yeah, I mean, I think we’re certainly on the same page. We spoke before, we recorded about, you know, like I personally don’t believe that it’s a great victory for the environment if we cover a huge amount of land in solar panels and then we just blast everything under it with herbicide and don’t use that land in other ways or just don’t let the land be what it is. It seems so silly to do that, that you would utilize such incredible resource like land and then cover it in herbicides because you’re dealing with trying to mitigate. I don’t know what cheatgrass It’s just like why not integrate these things I mean Jack solar garden what Byron’s doing with agrivoltaics is such a beautiful example of integration right that is an integrated system.

You know we were talking to... What’s the big energy? well yes, and we were talking by the way we’re supposed to call it something different now, but it’s NREL God... Well, we were talking to NREL and they gave us an entire evaluation of our property and what it would look like if we were to do solar. And so we looked at like the solar fencing. We looked at the solar on the roof on this big barn that we have. We looked at agrivoltaics. I mean, unfortunately for us, none of it made economical sense for a little while. But if you could work with someone who was looking for land and they were funding something like that and then there was a benefit to us because now we had solar agrivoltaics or panels that were blocking us from this very noisy highway. Then you’d have microclimates. So you’d have shade, you’d have more forage, you’d have spaces like in Colorado where water is so valuable. You would now have a way to create more of these little micro-climates that can retain water, that could help trees grow, that can be shade for cattle and other livestock that are grazing all of these alleyways.

That’s an integrated system. That is a way that you can truly incorporate everything that meets everyone’s needs. And then you don’t have so much pushback. You don’t have the NIMBYism because now they see that it’s benefiting multiple parties. Especially if you could even say, all the neighbors around Yellow Barn, we can actually support you with all of your home energy needs based on the energy that’s being produced off this farm. That’s a pretty good reason to want that.

So this is a diversion, but why do you think we’re so unimaginative as a species? What is it that holds us back from doing integrated things?

Azuraye Wycoff My perspective on that is that everything kind of works in a big circle. We started out this way. This is the indigenous principle—everything is integrated and we moved very, far away from that as we needed to grow and everyone diversified where you had one person who was focusing on food production. You had one person who was focusing on, I don’t know, making clothes. You had one person that was now focusing on industry and that just continued to branch outward and outward and now you you go to college and you specialize in one thing and you don’t think about anything else. If you’re focusing on medicine, maybe you’re only focusing on the brain and then even within the brain you’re focusing on the campus, I don’t know.

Whatever it is, you’re only so narrow-minded on this one topic where you forget that this whole thing is actually connected to a whole bunch of other parts. And it’s like when we eat meat, everyone’s looking at what the value of one cost of price per pound for ground beef. We completely forget that that came from a cow and that that cow actually had an entire purpose in an ecosystem. And that that purpose was actually to create fertility, turn soil, create more grass forage so that things like cheatgrass wouldn’t happen. We forget that that is all connected.

So why we went down that route? I think it was for our ability to grow. All of these things around us, from the lights and the ground and the stalls and the paint that’s on the stalls, all of that was a specialization. But I think we’re now starting to come full circle back to this integrated holistic viewpoint that’s allowing all of these diverse perspectives to now start to see each other. I think that’s really what Yellow Barn’s here to say is like everyone needs to be here. It’s not just the farmers. It’s not just the entrepreneurs. It’s all of those perspectives coming together so we can all learn from each other and see what we were missing.

Aaron Nichols Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you’ve done a beautiful job integrating into your community with things like the stock market.

Azuraye Wycoff Yeah, the stock market, it’s such a journey. The stock market’s really been our way to invite people to learn about land stewardship. You remember last year for our first pilot, and that whole thing I just talked about of what is the price per pound of beef. We don’t want to talk about beef like that. That completely dehumanizes the idea of what this animal’s life was really for.

Really what we’re talking about with this idea of the stock market. When I say stock market, it’s corn. Stock market. S-T-A-L-K for anyone listening. And the idea behind that was really a tongue-in-cheek play on the actual stock market, which is probably the most extractive system in the world at large. And if you could actually shift that narrative of saying, what would it look like if I invested my energy, my money into a regenerative holistic system that was actually focused on stewardship? And there’s many forms of stewardship right now. We focus primarily on land stewardship. And then what does that look like when we’re actually dealing with a holistic system? That we’re actually honoring the life of the animals that were tending the land, that they’re part of this ecosystem, and that at the end of their life and their service, they become something that then nourishes us. And that cycle continues.

Aaron Nichols So you’re obviously just a super connector in this community. And if someone is... is there a way that if someone is coming into a community to develop a project that they can find super connectors like you and, you know, have them work with the community members in the communities they built so that there’s more of a likelihood that not only will projects go forward but they’ll go forward in a more holistic way?

Azuraye Wycoff I mean, I think the most important thing again comes down to trust. You know, for the people who are connecting things, they’re connecting people that they know and that they trust and that they want to build more bridges. If someone came to me and they’re like, hey, I’m trying to do a giant solar project across the street from you, help me get this passed, I would be very, very hesitant to do that. And like, what would be the benefit? It needs to be reciprocity. That’s what all of this is about. That’s what builds trust.

And it usually starts very small. It starts with a very small gesture. It usually starts with a meal. It starts with getting to know someone. You know, don’t make big moves in community very, very rapidly. That’s how you get a ton of pushback. That’s how you get people digging their heels in. And you build a lot more enemies than you do friends. And that was a lesson that I had to learn when I first came here myself, of just shoving myself into the farmers community too quickly, you know? Saying, I’m here, let’s do this, let’s all collaborate. And they were like, yo, you are new here, you need to earn your seat at the table. And that was very humbling. And it’s really taught me a lot over the years of how you build those relationships and they’re very slow and intentional. And it’s the way that food grows. It’s the way that ecosystems grow. Nature grows slowly and intentionally. And anything that is truly fast and exponential is usually some sort of virus and that’s not usually a good thing.

Aaron Nichols Well, Azuraye, I end this show for everyone that I invite on with the same question. And it has to do with last year, I spoke at my grandma’s 80th birthday party. And when I was writing about that and reflecting about it afterwards, I realized that 80 years means my grandma was born into a world where what we call renewable energy did not exist. The only way we knew how to create electricity was to dig things up and then move them somewhere and then burn them and then send it out. And then we had to go find more things to dig up and burn. And we still do a lot of that, but we’re trying to be better.

But everything that has happened with the invention of solar and solar slowly becoming the cheapest power source in the world, all of that happened within my grandma’s 80-year lifespan. So I know that you’re working in your own way to bring a beautiful future about, but if you’re gonna moonshot to take us out here, what do you think energy looks like in 80 years? 80 years from now.

Azuraye Wycoff I mean, on the most extreme end of the spectrum, I think it looks like something like zero point energy. It looks like something that you can pretty much just pull out of the atmosphere from the atomic structure that exists around us. And it’s free. It’s accessible to everyone. It is completely doable and abundant. And it decreases all of the costs for all of us because so much of what we put energy into right now is creating energy.

I think solar is an incredible bridge to get there. I think with solar, what we’re really hoping for, and what I’ve kind of been hoping for, is that the efficiency of the solar panels really starts to increase, that the storage capacity in the batteries really starts to increase, and that those costs start to decrease as all of that technology starts to become more efficient. Because once all of that starts to become more efficient, then you’ll have a lot more micro nodes that can do their own energy. And once you have a decentralized system that can then really move energy as needed, man, you have a lot more ability to create, to grow, to do what is needed, rather than being completely reliant on a big, massive centralized system. So, that’s my hope.

Aaron Nichols Amazing. We share a similar vision. I mean, I want to bring about a future where energy belongs to the people, rather than having to be rented from huge regional monopolies. Well... Where do you like people to find you for anyone listening if you do like to be found online or in person or whatever?

Azuraye Wycoff Absolutely. Instagram is probably the easiest. That’s at yellowbarn.farm and our website is the same yellowbarn.farm. And really the best way is to come out to the farm. Come check out any of our events. We host wellness Wednesdays every single Wednesday. Puffin Sauna is open during that time and throughout the week. There are so many different ways to get involved. We have open mic nights and concerts and volunteer days in the garden once the spring starts. You can join the stock market if you want to support local food. That’s our CSA and herd share aggregator from a lot of the local farms. Or you can become a Yellow Barn social share member.

Aaron Nichols For anyone passing through Denver who’s listening, or if you’re local, or if you just come to a conference in Colorado, Yellow Barn is one of my favorite places in the world. And I know I’ve told you that a bajillion times.

Azuraye Wycoff Never get sick of hearing that.

Aaron Nichols So thank you so much for coming on today. And yeah, for everyone listening, that’s been This Week in Solar.

Azuraye Wycoff Thank you.

Two of the solar industry’s leading independent testing labs, Kiwa PVEL and RETC, just dropped their 2026 solar panel reliability reports.

The high-level takeaway is: solar panels are becoming more efficient and delivering higher energy yields than ever before, but their failure rates during extended laboratory stress testing have skyrocketed to historic highs.

We don’t say this to scare you; it’s just another reason to work with a reputable, locally owned installer that’s done their research when you’re considering going solar.

You can listen to this episode here, or on:

* YouTube

* Apple Podcasts

* Spotify

If you’ve learned something from This Week In Solar and you’d like to learn more, drop your email below, and we’ll keep sending you free solar news!

Why it Matters:

For a high-quality, locally-owned solar installer like Exact Solar, it’s absolutely critical that we can stand behind the promises that we make to home and business owners.

Those promises are only as good as the equipment we use to build our systems.

We’re brand-agnostic in the systems we build, and we’re always testing new equipment to ensure home and business owners get the best experience.

It’s our name on the roof, not the manufacturers’. If the system breaks, we’re the ones who get called to fix it. Most home and business owners only have a vague idea of who manufactured their solar panels, but they know who installed them.

Historically, standard certifications kept catastrophic equipment failures from happening on a large scale. But as the market scrambles to meet surging energy demands, manufacturers are cutting corners to save on costs and increase output.

We are seeing thinner encapsulant layers, zero-busbar designs, and significantly thinner aluminum frames. Thinner frames and glass mean higher rates of glass breakage and cell cracking when panels are exposed to simulated heavy snow, high winds, and severe hail storms.

Let’s look at the numbers coming out of the labs:

* 87% of manufacturers evaluated in the Kiwa PVEL Scorecard experienced at least one test failure.

* More than 10% of the tested module samples failed during the intensive 2,000-hour damp heat test (this means that layers separated and moisture crept in).

* Not a single solar panel model managed to achieve “Top Performer” status across every single test category for the first time in history.

How to Find The Top Performing Panels:

If you’re interested in going solar, here’s how to make sure you’ll own a system that’s built to last.

If you are working with a well-established, locally owned, reputable installer, ask them what equipment they have worked with extensively and like.

They have years of experience and will help you find the equipment that works best in your area, for your unique climate.

If you want something to cross-reference with, these five brands earned high honors as both a Kiwa PVEL “Top Performer” and an RETC “Overall Highest Achiever” for 2026:

* JinkoSolar

* Trina Solar

* JA Solar

* Qcells

* LONGi Solar

Sources:

Photovoltaic Reliability and Standards Development

Latest PV Module Reliability Scorecard shows unsettling uptick in failures

RETC solar panel report shows troubling performance issues

Latest RETC solar module quality report reveals significant issues

2026 PV Module Index Report

The 2026 PV Module Reliability Scorecard

More than 60 top scientists from around the world just released a report on Nature.com (linked in today’s sources) saying that solar power is taking over as the top power source faster than anyone expected.

Experts from labs in the United States, Germany, Japan, and other countries found that the world now has more than 2 terawatts of solar power, double what we had just four years ago, and that solar will likely be the world’s dominant source of power by 2050.

Why it matters

It took the world 68 years (1954-2022) to reach 1 terawatt of solar. We reached 2 terawatts just over two years later.

A terawatt is a LOT of electricity. 1 Terawatt of electricity is 5% of the electricity the entire planet uses at any given moment.

It’s hard to visualize, but let’s try.

First, we need to buy one billion microwaves, or about half of the microwaves that exist on the entire planet.

Now we need a space to lay them all down. We’ll have to level Manhattan, The Bronx, and Staten Island, and fill the space with nothing but microwaves, and somehow plug them all in.

Then we’ll need to turn them on at the same time. As soon as they’re all on, we’re using roughly 1 terawatt of electricity.

The report predicts that we could have 75 terawatts of solar power by 2050.

So um… Imagine covering all of upstate New York in microwaves, and you’re somewhere near imagining the amount of clean power we’re about to generate.

To stay on track and hit that huge number, we’ll need more efficient solar panels.

Companies like Tandem PV are building new types of panels called “tandems” that stack layers of perovskites and silicon to catch more light and turn it into electricity that will be more widely available soon.

While this technology grows, the U.S. government is cutting money for solar to focus on oil and gas, which the scientists in the report warn could let other countries like China take the lead in this new energy race.

It’s important to note how different solar energy is from fossil fuels. The sun provides free fuel to some part of the earth 24/7, 365.

In just one hour, the Earth gets enough sunlight to power the whole world for an entire year. Because the fuel is free, solar power is the cheapest way to make electricity. You just lay panels out, and they make electricity.

Solar power doesn’t require the infrastructure that you need to dig things up, transport them to a different place, and burn them to make electricity.

The “solar century” is already here, and the countries that embrace solar power will be the most sovereign in the future, because they’ll have complete control over their energy generation.

Court Blocks Some of Trump Administration’s Clean Energy Cuts

What’s new:

A federal judge has ruled that the Trump administration violated the U.S. Constitution by canceling clean energy grants for states that did not vote for him in the 2024 election.

Why it matters:

The ruling restores seven specific grants worth $27.6 million, which had been awarded to projects like electric vehicle charging programs and building efficiency projects.

The lawsuit was brought by the city of St. Paul, Minnesota, and several environmental groups after the Department of Energy (DOE) cut over $7.5 billion in funding last October.

The court found that there was “no rational relationship” between where a project is located and whether it deserves funding, calling the administration’s actions a violation of the Fifth Amendment’s guarantee of equal protection.

While this specific ruling only saves a small portion of the canceled funds, legal experts say the decision sets a precedent that could protect other projects from being targeted for political reasons.

The DOE disagrees with the ruling and claims the projects were cut because they didn’t meet necessary standards, but the judge noted the administration freely admitted to making decisions based on voting patterns.

Sources:

Talking About Energy Dominance? Solar Would Like to Have a Word. - Inside Climate News

Historical and future learning for the new era of multi-terawatt photovoltaics

Court says Trump DOE violated Fifth Amendment when canceling clean energy funding to blue states

Trump administration unlawfully cut clean energy grants, court rules | Utility Dive

The biggest news of the year for the solar industry happened with the Trump Administration signing the so-called “One Big, Beautiful Bill.”

The new bill phased out tax credits that made solar cheaper for companies and families.

It pulled hope away from thousands of Americans like Jennifer McCoy, a single mother in Georgia working three jobs. She’d been approved for a solar energy system that would lower her out-of-control power bills through the Solar for All Program, only to learn that the program, and her project, were cancelled as a result.

The bill eliminated thousands of manufacturing jobs and raised electricity prices for consumers.

2. Federal Government Tries to Stop Solar Growth

The administration also used its power to block solar growth in other ways.

On his first day in office, the President shut down the government office responsible for new energy technology.

The administration has since also put high tariffs on imported solar parts, raised costs for American companies, cancelled permits for big solar farms on public land, and restricted renewables on farmland.

This prevents more farmers from following examples like Carmen Fernholz, who used a REAP grant to install a 40-kW solar array on his Minnesota farm in 2024, drastically reducing his operating costs. Those same incentives won’t be available going forward.

3. National Solar Companies File for Bankruptcy

As rules changed and costs went up, a few national solar companies ran out of money to operate.

In June 2025, Sunnova and Mosaic had to file for bankruptcy.

Later in the year, PosiGen also had to file for bankruptcy because the tax breaks they relied on to grow were phasing out.

4. Solar Booms Anyway

The 2025 data is irrefutable. Solar + Storage is the dominant form of new generation capacity in the United States.

Despite the government’s actions, solar power had a record year. Solar, wind, and batteries made up 92% of all new power added to the U.S. grid.

Tech companies needed massive amounts of electricity for data centers, and many chose to develop their own solar projects to get it quickly.

Among these companies is Meta, who partnered with Silicon Ranch to break ground on a 100-Megawatt solar and storage project that will only power their data center in South Carolina.

100 Megawatts is enough energy to power 40,000-60,000 homes at once.

5. The World Leaves the U.S. Behind

While the U.S. fought over energy laws, other countries raced ahead. China deployed more clean energy in six months than the rest of the world has in decades.

In Europe, solar power became the number one source of electricity for the first time.

The global market is moving to clean energy, with or without the United States.

Sources

The 2025 energy transition in eight charts: clean wins, dirty setbacks | Reuters

The 2025 Energy Transition in Eight Charts: Clean Wins, Dirty Setbacks: Maguire

US solar installations jump 49% in third quarter, report says | Reuters

Clean energy is still winning. These 10 charts prove… | Canary Media

Canary Media’s top 11 clean energy stories in 2025

Solar Power World’s most-read stories of 2025

American Energy Under Threat: Political Attacks Threaten Half of All Planned Power in the U.S.

In Georgia, Trump’s Cuts to Solar Projects Hit Some of His Voters

Trump’s War on Solar & Wind: A Timeline of Recent Federal Actions | Third Way

Trump’s rural energy freeze hits Midwest, GOP districts hardest

Meta data center in South Carolina to run on power from 100-MW Silicon Ranch solar project

Dave shares how learning about the true cause of 9/11 sparked his pivot into renewables.

He outlines his path from Solar Energy International training through launching a premium solar panel brand in the Americas, developing solar water-pumping projects across West Africa, and bringing that experience home to help municipalities and nonprofits go solar.

You can connect with Dave on LinkedIn here.

Expect to Learn:

* How a non-linear career path built Dave’s toolkit for getting complex projects across the finish line.

* What boards of churches, schools, and towns actually need to green-light solar.

* Why tax-exempt organizations interested in solar need to act now as policies and incentives start to shift.

Quotes from the Episode:

“Technically, solar doesn’t generate electricity—the sun does. We’re just smart about how we use it.”– Dave Hammes

“In a lot of these organizations, energy represents over a third of their expenses. That’s a big percentage. You’re passing the basket a few times now just to raise your energy bill every month.” – Dave Hammes

Transcript:

Aaron Nichols: Hello everyone and welcome back to This Week in Solar. I’m Aaron Nichols, the Research and Policy Specialist here at Exact Solar in Newtown, Pennsylvania. Today we have a very special guest who I’ve been after for a few months to do the show. And you’d think I’d be able to get him easily because he’s within my own organization, but it took some doing. Dave Hammes basically stumbled into the solar world like I did. And Dave, I would love to hear you outline that journey for a little bit before we get started.

Dave Hammes: Yeah, I’d be glad to, and I hope I don’t bore anyone. But yes, I was motivated very early on. Actually, it was after 9-11. I was curious about that and what caused that whole disaster. And when I started digging into it, I found that a lot of it was driven by—oddly enough—about oil. And to a degree on that, some have been Laden and George W. Bush. And I thought, wow, I want to dig deep into this, and that is thinking, okay, well, how do you avert such things going forward? And it was such an emotional impact that that had everyone at the time. But I started paying attention to studying energy, energy efficiency, renewables. And I just became really intrigued with it. So I was self-taught for a few years early on, ended up going to Solar Energy International, one of the oldest training facilities for solar energy out in Colorado and went through their program. And people started learning that I knew about solar and they’d ask me to design a system for them and I would, and then all of a sudden they asked me to install it and I found I was in the solar business. And then someone else found me—an organization, a big conglomerate out of Germany—that one of their arms of their conglomerate was making solar panels, a premium panel, and they called and they said they were going to launch a facility here in the U.S. Would I want to join them? So I did. I was like the second person in the organization in the Americas. And I ended up running that organization for, I guess, about five years or more. And I had a lot of salespeople across the country, sales managers. And we grew it from nothing to like $100 million in solar panels, sales to all the solar installation companies across the Americas. And I eventually ended up going to work for a software company, one of the earliest ones in the industry that designed software, and one of our big clients was Sun Addison, which was probably the largest installation network at the time, a huge organization. And later I went to work with a company that used solar energy to pump and purify water. And they happened to do business all over the globe. So I was like one month with them, and I got the conversation—I was called into the office of the president. And he said, you’re going to Africa. I can do that. He said, do you know how to speak French? And I said, “ooh,” that was about it. That wasn’t sure how many words that was. So I did that. I started traveling over there—half a dozen trips over there—and developing projects in a few of the West African countries, which was quite exciting and eye-opening to say the least. Eventually, the pandemic hit and I couldn’t travel anymore. So I came back here. I took off for a little while because of the pandemic and I wasn’t going anywhere, but later joined up with Exact Solar, which happened to be one of the customers of mine when we were selling solar panels for the German manufacturer. So that’s it, and that’s how I got here, and gravitating towards commercial projects and the like. And I had a lot of experience with government-related projects, especially in Africa, where I was dealing with the highest level of parliamentary government, and I just felt really comfortable in pursuing that here. So I work with a number of municipalities and work on developing business in that regard. And the nonprofits is just an area that everyone stays away from, as well as a lot of government types of projects—people don’t chase after those because they take longer to develop, they’re tougher to develop, tougher to get across the finish line. And it’s not because I enjoyed that so much, but it is because fewer people do it. And I know, you know, the ins and outs of it a little bit—perhaps more than some do—just from experience, and failing often enough, you learn a lot.

Aaron Nichols: But yeah, and I want to touch on something that I think is so important. I mean, I’ve been really hammering on this on every podcast I’ve been interviewed on. In the solar industry, it’s so important to me to highlight the stories of people who didn’t follow a linear path, because I also didn’t follow a linear path.I work in solar because I was surfing in a town in Ecuador and I met two circus girls who invited me to sell solar with them door-to-door. And it’s so important to me that, you know, if you’re someone who’s listening to this and you might be intimidated by the business world or you want to break into clean energy, just start talking to people, because if it seems intimidating from the outside, the reality of the inside is, you know, things are just happening.

Dave Hammes: That reminds me of an aside I just shared with someone recently—one of our colleagues, actually. When I started developing these projects on my own very early on, a homeowner would find out about it and have me design a system, or a real small business or whatever, and I would do that. And then I was working with a friend of mine because he was intrigued by it and we were doing things together.And he got a hold of a request for proposal from USAID and he shared it with me. And I read this, and USAID was responsible for trying to put together the nation of, like, Burya in West Africa after their civil war—disaster—and USAID could not get it put together, so they’re reaching out for input and so forth. And their RFP was to create an energy solution for the entire country because it was destroyed—all the grid ties and everything was destroyed through the civil war. People were taking the wires off the poles and everything else. I thought, well, why not? I’ve done two homes and a small orchard business. So I’m capable of this—why not the entire country of Liberia? Exactly. So I took it on, and I met this gentleman—like you’re saying, you know, just in a conversation—who actually escaped the civil war, came over here to live with his daughter. And he happened to be in charge of the entire cellular infrastructure for the country, and he knew every square inch of the country, the terrain, and everything.So he and I worked together, I created this plan. He knew which industries were the strongest over there and what the biggest problems were. There’s like 85% unemployment—just a disaster. So the crime rate was so high, everyone was trying to survive. So I put together this plan and submitted it at the last minute to USAID. I did not win the bid for it, but I found out about maybe four or six months later that the energy company that had been in place over there was already awarded it before the RFP came out. So it was just like, you know, I don’t know what you call it—it’s like you had to send out an RFP by law or something, right? But then I read their solution and found out that they were burning old rubber trees that weren’t producing anymore. That was their clean energy plan for sustainability—plus whatever other fuels they had available to them. But they also apparently found three or four items within my proposal that they borrowed for doing energy along the coast because they could produce wind energy there and use that for freezers and refrigeration of their fishing industry, because they had none before that. So the industry could triple—things like that. But nonetheless, I just thought it was an interesting experience and you learn a lot doing business over there and so forth.

Aaron Nichols: Okay, so for anyone who’s listening who doesn’t know industry acronyms, RFP is a request for proposal.

Dave Hammes: Yeah. Thank you—I jumped through that. But yeah, it’s so cool that I’ve had that impact and have been able to carry that home and try to bring the same thing back to the U.S.

Aaron Nichols: And I’m curious: as you’ve worked with some of these nonprofits and municipal organizations, what are some of the major benefits of solar that a lot of these organizations see once they actually get those projects across the finish line?

Dave Hammes: Well, I can speak to the religious organizations—and there’s quite a few that I’ve been working with. I think I have at least a half dozen so far this year alone, just since the springtime, and there’s more on the horizon. But they have a real tenet—you know, their equivalent of bylaws in their organizations call for environmental stewardship and giving back to the earth. And for all the right reasons, they want to do clean energy projects. You can ask just about any organization of that type if they would like to go solar and the answer is yes. Historically, they’ve been prevented from doing so because it’s cost-prohibitive for the initial outlay of cash. That makes one of the biggest hurdles. So now we have some solutions, and especially with Exact Solar working on some very unique solutions that can overcome those hurdles. And it certainly helps with the Inflation Reduction Act, which is going by the wayside more or less now with our current administration. But that enabled these communities to go solar in their places of worship and save tons of money. So they benefit significantly from the financial side as well as doing what’s right at the same time—for their community, for safety, for resilience. All those things are boxes they need to check.

Aaron Nichols: So they have to justify upfront cost, but generally see quite a bit of savings on the back end.

Dave Hammes: Absolutely, yes.

Aaron Nichols: And then, other than costs—when you’re speaking to the boards of these organizations—what else are they usually concerned about, and what other worries do you have to alleviate?

Dave Hammes: Well, with a religious organization, they have multiple tiers. You have perhaps a small committee that embraces and wants to champion the efforts to go with clean energy. And then, if they are successful and collaborate and speak to people like myself, they can take it to the next step, which may be a bigger committee and eventually to the church council. And then that goes on to the congregation. And everyone has to have the majority buy-in in order to make anything happen, plus they need some way of funding the project—whether it’s fundraising, or they have the capital, or they’re depending on us to have a solution, which fortunately we’re able to do.

Aaron Nichols: Right. And after they’ve gone solar, what do you mainly hear from these organizations when you’re checking back in with people?

Dave Hammes: Oh boy. Well, they’re certainly pleased that they did it. I think the way that it’s vindicated, if nothing else, is the fact that one house of worship will share that experience with another. And then I get a call from them. And that’s how I got up to six or seven so far this year—by that exact thing happening. You know, someone may call in and I’ll pursue it and they’ll tell their friends in another congregation and it just—word of mouth. So that definitely takes place. Yeah, generally they’re excited.

Aaron Nichols: Yeah. I think this is one of the obstacles of solar I’ve been joking about with a lot of people: it’s too good at what it does. It’s just kind of boring. It just sits there and makes power. And once it’s turned on, you forget it’s there because it’s so good at what it’s doing.

Dave Hammes: Well, yeah, that’s a good point. And I’d like to touch on that a little bit because technically, solar—as we know it, what we think about when you use that term, for better or worse—does not generate any electricity whatsoever. All the energy is the sun. And the sun’s energy is used in every way you can think—every single living thing on the planet, all our food, everything—heat, light, you name it. It comes from the sun, and it allows us, because of technology, to power the things that we want to power. And there are some people now that don’t want that to happen. They do not want some people to have access to the sun. And to me, I don’t understand it—it’s ridiculous. It’s free energy. It’s fuel. And yeah, there’s a cost for the hunks of metal and glass that we put on top of a building to channel that energy so that it runs a motor or your refrigerator or your internet or your TV or all of the above. But for those who want to stop the sunshine from being able to give us the living styles that we have—that’s just unbelievable. I don’t know that thought process. The alternative makes it even worse. So I was joking with somebody recently—I borrowed a line from a big long-term advocacy group, The Third Act. If you go in and have a conversation with one of these organizations, you get a checklist—two boxes: you can get your energy from heaven, or you can get your energy from below. And the one from heaven has the least cost, is the fastest to put in place, and the longest term of any—and it’s the healthiest, safest. But let’s not do that—some people don’t want to do that.

Aaron Nichols: Right, I mean, well, there’s an entire infrastructure built around just digging things up and burning them and then going to find more things to dig up and burn.

Dave Hammes: Yeah, that’s true. Poisonous water and poisonous air and everything else. If you get the stats that the government supplies us with—the stats on how many people die in the U.S. each year from particulate matter from burning fossil fuel, or from poisonous water, right. And it’s incredible. It’s like a small city every year, you know?

Aaron Nichols: Yeah, and this is one thing that I’m very fired up about because I’m a very contrarian person. And so whoever’s in power, I disagree with, generally. But I’m very excited at the idea that harvesting the sun’s rays is now an act of revolution—that just gets me fired up—because I love the idea that, you know, this thing that just shines on the Earth all day, and all that energy, and we found a new way to use it and it’s even better and more efficient than any way we’ve generated the electricity we need before—and now they don’t want us to use it.

Dave Hammes: Right—yeah, it’s coming off the sun. Let me talk about the ultimate power—how do you do that? It’s like, oh, that’d be pretty neat. If I can control the sun, why didn’t I think of that? Yeah, it’s crazy.

Aaron Nichols: One of the projects I’ve been most excited about since I’ve worked here at Exact Solar is our Habitat for Humanity project. And I’m interested to hear you talk about maybe challenges we faced there, how we overcame them, the benefits of that project, how that’s going to impact the people in those homes. I would love to hear you speak on it.

Dave Hammes: Yeah, sure. That is one of my favorite projects, if you will. So the gentleman from Habitat—Philly Habitat; Berks/Lehigh/Norristown from the Philly division—saw one of our highway billboards and started tracking us down and ended up going through Solarize to get to us. And I certainly looked at their project. They had five new homes that they were providing for some families in need, and they were building these super-efficient homes and solar was gonna top it off, which made a whole lot of sense. So they’re in the city, and there are certain restrictions there and certain guidelines we had to follow, but we designed the system. We designed the components; the equipment itself had to be special equipment for the project in order to abide by the restrictions that the city has or the guidelines that they have. And we did so. We adjusted the systems appropriately and we launched it and had a nice little press release at the location. And doing the math for that presentation, we found out that by doing so, they were saving those people over $40,000 in energy costs—simply by putting these solar arrays on their homes—for people that couldn’t afford the homes otherwise. Right now, it just lowered their cost to live there, and they’ll end up as homeowners and solar system owners in the not too distant future. So that’s a very rewarding success story. Kudos to Habitat for sure and that ongoing effort—that’s quite noble, I believe.

Aaron Nichols: And that’s one of the things I love most about those kinds of stories—especially when you talk about schools, houses of worship, or organizations like Habitat for Humanity. You have people who are wasting money on ever-increasing electricity prices, and nonprofits have very strict budgets. And when you can help them free up more money, that goes toward doing more good in the community.

Dave Hammes: That’s the intent. Yes, that’s the truth. Yeah, that’s definitely true. Yeah, that’s part of the conversations that we have. One of the plants is a Ukrainian church, and I brought an idea to the table that the money that they would save from going solar could be put into a fund that could be contributed to their homeland. And they’ve loved that idea. So there are things that they’d rather do with their money than spend it on energy. As you said, Aaron, the prices keep going up and up on fossil fuels. And that doesn’t have to be the case. Yeah, so it’s good to see those success stories, for sure.

Aaron Nichols: So what advice do you have for any tax-exempt organizations that are thinking about solar now? What do they need to do?

Dave Hammes: They need to act immediately. Right now. The winds change weekly. I mean two weeks ago, we were that close to a new executive order that’s going to change the world again in this world. And the people that want to wait and see are the ones that are going to lose out, and the people that take action now are the ones that are going to be like saying, “Wow, I can breathe,” you know. In a lot of these organizations, the energy represents over a third of their expenses. That’s huge. That’s a big percentage. And if you’re paying 35% of whatever, you’re passing the basket a few times now just to raise your energy bill every month. And it’s not an endless supply of money to keep these organizations running.

Aaron Nichols: And when we talk about organizations like Habitat for Humanity, you’re also talking about families that are on very limited budgets who then now have just a little bit more money to get through the end of the month and aren’t choosing between electricity and food. That’s true. The news article that’s coming out this Friday—I mean, this is probably gonna come out in a month—but the one I wrote that’s coming out this Friday is a deep dive on the cancellation of Solar for All, and a couple stories like the New York Times talking about this woman in Georgia who was paying $500 a month. She’s a single mom of three. She works two jobs just to support herself, and Solar for All was supposed to give them a solar energy system and take that cost off the table, and that just got yanked out from under them.

Dave Hammes: Yeah, it’s, again, one of those things. It’s difficult for me to process the mentality behind that because there’s been a lot of things in the news about how devastating the changes to these incentives have been for our industry. There are hundreds of thousands of people in this industry and losing jobs and companies going out of business and so forth. And I think beyond that—I mean that is a bad thing; there’s no question about it, and I’m part of that industry—but from our experience in the last three years and up until a week ago, for every dollar someone spends, they’re going to get two, three, or four dollars back from going solar—in savings or in incentives in some cases. The IRA had $369 billion assigned to energy, dedicated to energy, and I don’t know how much—it’s hard to find out how much—has been gone through. But if it was only half of that (I think it’s a lot more), that represents like $500 billion back to those people—coming back to the American people and the public. Forget about the solar industry employees or whatever—not that we want to—but I’m just saying, put that aside for a moment and look at where the real devastation is. You just took a half a trillion dollars away from the American people with that one move. And it keeps on happening. So I don’t understand that mentality or the people that are behind it, because they’re hurting themselves.

Aaron Nichols: And I do think the one thing the solar industry is very bad at—and this is something that I go back and forth with my friends who work with other companies all the time—is we’re not good at relating the human impact of things like this. It’s a very technical-minded industry of people who love numbers and graphs.But when you zoom in on the story of a single mother of three who could have freed up a third of her monthly costs and, you know, just gotten some nicer things and felt a little more dignity—and then had that sense of hope pulled away from her—yeah, that’s the kind of stuff that I think it’s important we focus on.

Dave Hammes: Yeah, you’re right. And there’s the argument of climate change. I feel in a similar fashion: you’re going to argue with somebody that disagrees with you all day long for years—and it’s been going on for decades—arguing, is it climate change from what we do or not, blah blah? Well, put that aside and look at what you just mentioned. And what I just mentioned a second ago: if you invest in clean energy because of such a low cost, at worst—even without any incentive whatsoever—you’re going to cut your bill in half. And all the things that come with that in cleaning up the community. For these schools that go solar—you know, schools and places of worship—they are community centers in a disaster, in a flood, or whatever the event may be, storm or what have you. And that makes it much more resilient. And it also separates from centralized energy—having one big generation plant somewhere—into distributed energy, which removes the possibility of as many cyberattacks and things like that if you can separate yourself from the grid. The grid gets hacked a few times a day.

Aaron Nichols: Yeah, it’s been very sad to watch the administration try to tie clean energy to identity politics and use that and try to tell people that clean energy is just some sort of lefty comedy thing. It’s not. It’s here. It’s going to be the future in 20 years. This is a minor setback, but in 20–30 years these kinds of conversations are going to seem silly.

Dave Hammes: Yeah. But I know my children, my grandchildren, and beyond—they cannot imagine what a group of people are doing to their future. They can’t comprehend why somebody would knowingly and deliberately do that so that they’re going to have to pay for it in terms of health and price and everything else. You can’t fathom that.

Aaron Nichols: That’s a really good place to ask my last question, which I ask everyone who comes on the show. And I wrote this because I went to my grandma’s birthday party a few months ago—she was turning 80 years old. As I was sitting there, I was thinking about the timeline of clean energy and how she was born into a world that had just been electrified. The Rural Electrification Act had happened 10 years before she was born; she was born in rural Missouri. The first PV cell was 1954, so she was nine, and then Jimmy Carter put panels on the White House in ’79—and those were solar thermal; they weren’t even solar PV cells. And then everything that’s happened since the turn of the century with PV being at this ridiculously high cost per watt going all the way down to where it is now and being so economically viable—all of that has happened within her lifetime, coming from a world where what we conceive of as clean energy didn’t even exist. And so, if you just want to spitball just for fun: what do you think clean energy looks like in 80 years? And don’t worry—we’ll both be dead. No one’s going to hold us to the answer.

Dave Hammes: Yeah, that is true about it. But let’s see—how do I answer that? I would say a few things. One is, when I first started this—I gave you a brief background and my intrigue with the industry and the whole topic—I voiced the fact that I wanted to live to the point where fossil fuel would be the “alternative energy.” Clean, renewable energy—wind, solar, whatever—were considered alternative energies and called that back in the day; they still are. But I wanted to get to a point where they would supersede the fossil fuels, and fossil fuels are second and in place or beyond. And that actually happens—everyone that’s gone solar. I have natural-gas backup, but I don’t use it. I have solar on my house. I have heat pumps, you know—heating things and whatever. And I have an electric car—it’s so nice. So where will we be in 80 years? I don’t think the technologies that’ll exist then can even be imagined today because there’s this exponential development growth and what have you. There will be so many technologies that I can’t imagine today that will come and go. I think, one, there’s going to be some intelligence put behind building materials that doesn’t exist today, and those building materials are going to be much more efficient—and much more efficient ways of building things—and therefore a lot more efficiency in keeping them running as far as electricity is concerned. So you’ll have two things working in the same direction: just more intelligent products and building practices and less need for that energy. And, short-term, there’s great promise in solid-oxide fuel cells and these mini reactors that are in the news these days. A mini reactor—I love the concept; I just don’t think, in my backyard, they’re going to be… they’re not pet-friendly yet. I think those types of things may come and go, but the advancement is going to be—there’s going to be a constant need for energy, so there’s going to be a constant need to improve the technologies, the ideas, and where that comes from. And I think solar is playing a big part; it will be a big part. I heard something that Ron said when you were speaking with him—that it’s not going to be in the same form it is now. And I agree with that; there’ll be a whole lot of different approaches to solar energy that won’t be the same as what we’re doing right now. But it certainly is going to make up a significant part of our overall energy supply. And the rest of the world sees that in places like China that has passed us by in advanced technology. It’s interesting. But yeah, it’ll play a thing.

Aaron Nichols: I’m certainly excited to toss little uranium pellets into my backyard reactor. That’s going to be a fun day when that gets here.

Dave Hammes: Your new pellet stove.

Aaron Nichols: Well, thanks so much for coming on, Dave. For everyone listening, that’s been This Week in Solar. And—yeah.

Dave Hammes: Thank you very much.

Tim is a 30-year industry veteran. Today, he helps solar EPCs and developers use AI as an accelerant to automate repetitive workflows and scale twice as fast.

If you’re ready to cut through the hype and find practical uses for AI, this episode’s for you.

Listen here, or on:

* YouTube

* Apple Podcasts

* Spotify

Connect with Tim on LinkedIn here.

Expect to learn:

* Why you should use AI as an accelerant, not a replacement.

* How to master bot wrangling and lead a digital workforce.

* What you should and shouldn’t outsource to AI

Quotes from the episode:

“If you can build an AI agent that works 24/7 and doesn’t take vacation—that’s pretty amazing. That’s going to help you do things faster, cheaper. And in business, that really matters.” — Tim Montague

“Meaning is so subjective. We truly create meaning... Find your mission and then go find people who share that mission and find a tribe.” — Tim Montague

Transcript:

Aaron Nichols: Tim, you’ve recently made a pivot to AI in your solar consulting business. Now, obviously there’s a ton of hype around AI, as there is around any new technology, and some of that hype is complete nonsense. So in your opinion, where can solar companies deploy AI for real ROI and what’s fluff?

Tim Montague: In my opinion, it is all about using AI as an accelerant. And the place where I think it will most often be applied is in workflows. You know, these are processes—any workflow that has repetitive manual elements to it, where you’re entering data or sending a message, exchanging information. That takes time and can be sped up with AI. Not everything can be, not every process can be sped up with AI, okay, we have to be careful. But ultimately, yes, it is gonna be an accelerant for solar companies, for all companies. If you deal with knowledge work, you can benefit from AI. And soon, if you deal with physical work, you can benefit from AI and robotics. Solar panel installation robots are a thing.

Aaron Nichols: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I’ve certainly fully embraced Gemini Pro and it’s become like an incredible assistant for me, especially for research... Now I’m curious, where have you seen it fail? Where have you seen people implement it and then it was just AI for AI’s sake and it just didn’t really help?

Tim Montague: Well, let me caveat this by saying I’m very new as an AI consultant. I am a technology stack consultant... My fundamental value proposition, Aaron, is that I am an accelerant. I will help you as a company go where you need to go twice as fast as you would on your own. First of all, not getting in the game, I think is the biggest mistake, Aaron. You’ve got to get in the game because you will get left behind. If you can build an AI agent that works 24/7 and doesn’t take vacation—that’s pretty amazing.

And then it’s always a question of: do you build or buy? And it’s a “both and” probably. You need the foundation like the LLM, you need a professional subscription so your intellectual property is protected... You have to keep a human in the loop and then yeah, make mistakes. Hire people that are curious. Those employees who are more friendly to working with AI as an assistant are gonna go further. If you’re an employee or a leader, you get in the game and be a good “bot wrangler.”

Aaron Nichols: Well, I’m excited to one day add “bot wrangler” to my LinkedIn. Big fan of the term. For everyone listening, welcome back to This Week in Solar. I’m your host, Aaron Nichols, the research and policy specialist here at Exact Solar in Newtown, Pennsylvania. And my guest today is—is it Tim Montague or Montague?

Tim Montague: We say Montague. The Montagues that came to America in the 1600s were from England, although the name is French origin, montagne, which means mountain.

Aaron Nichols: Nice. Tim, would you please introduce yourself and just talk a bit about who you are in the industry and your background?

Tim Montague: Sure, I am a solar professional. I’m a consultant to the industry. I’ve made it my business to be an expert in commercial industrial (C&I) solar, behind-the-meter solar. I’ve also developed some community solar projects... and I’m also a podcaster like yourself, Aaron. My show is The Clean Power Hour. I learned that I’m not a great writer, but podcasting was a great outlet. This work is very important for energy professionals to learn more about how this works. It’s not smoke and mirrors; there’s really an economy here creating jobs and cleaning the air.

Aaron Nichols: If you were the head of a small to mid-sized solar installer, what would you do right now to make sure you thrived in 2026? What pivots would you be making?

Tim Montague: The biggest one is to fully embrace batteries. Any place there’s electricity is a place that a battery is useful because it’s a sponge—it absorbs electricity and generates it on demand. Batteries are great for resiliency, but they also are great for the grid operator and can help the facility owner reduce their energy bill. Lithium-ion is the big dog right now, but it’ll change.

If you’re an industrial facility owner, on a big building, you could save $250,000 a year with a solar array in Illinois. With a battery, you can 5X the savings over 15 years. In Illinois, we have battery-specific incentives—a cash incentive of $250 per KWH. That juices the economics. If you’re a legislator or a policy person, copy what’s being done in Illinois, New York, or Massachusetts.

Aaron Nichols: Yeah, I’m very bullish on local groups and local impact as we face an unfriendly federal administration.

Tim Montague: Yes, the state lever. Our Governor Pritzker here in Illinois has made it clear that he’s very pro-clean energy. We’re shutting down coal and natural gas and replacing those facilities with solar, wind, and batteries. Google just announced a deal with Energy Dome, which is super cool—compressed CO2 storage. The state levers are very important.

Aaron Nichols: I heard at a conference that 70% of the locked-in carbon reduction we’ve seen since the turn of the century has been a direct result of deploying clean energy locally due to state and local policy.

Tim Montague: The federal policy is impactful—the phase-out of the ITC (Investment Tax Credit) for residential solar is a thing, though there’s an extended ITC for commercial batteries. Residential solar is in decline nationally because of the ITC phase-out, but I went to Tennessee and met installers with a 90%+ attachment rate of batteries.

Aaron Nichols: Your mission is to speed up the energy transition. What do we need to do right now to make that future come true?

Tim Montague: We’re making the energy transition, but China is on track to green their grid by 2050 while the US is on track for 2148—100 years slower. We have a climate chaos problem. There’s an emerging science called “climate restoration” to get back to pre-industrial levels of 300 PPM of CO2. One biomimetic technology is ocean iron fertilization. Phytoplankton take sunshine and iron to suck carbon out of the atmosphere. For $1 or $2 billion a year, we could suck a lot of carbon out.

I’m more hopeful than ever that we can solve the climate crisis, but I am less confident in the AI crisis. When superintelligence emerges, it’s going to be thousands of times smarter than us. We have to be careful.

Aaron Nichols: What advice would you give to anyone like me who’s just starting out here?

Tim Montague: Establish a mission. Having a focus will help you find your passion. Find your tribe—I love working in this industry because there’s a lot of mission-driven people. And travel. My global travel experiences have been some of the best in my life. You get to see how other people live and realize that while America is a great place, there are other ways of living.

Aaron Nichols: My grandma turned 80 last year. Everything from the invention of PV to it becoming the cheapest power source has happened within her lifetime. What do you think energy looks like 80 years from now?

Tim Montague: We should build a “Dyson sphere” around the Earth—an HVDC network (high-voltage direct current) that connects the whole globe. We could take wind power from where it’s windy and sun power from where it’s sunny to any other part of the globe instantaneously. We would have a superabundance of energy.

I think UBI (universal basic income) will be a thing because AI will do a lot of jobs. And then there’s transhumanism—the ability to be connected to the internet via something like Neuralink. Ask me when I’m 80; if I’m falling apart physically and it could give me an extension of high-quality life, I might go for it.

Aaron Nichols: Where do you like to be found?

Tim Montague: LinkedIn is the best place. Come to a trade show—I’m going to RE+, NABCEP, ACP, and Intersolar. My aim this year is to meet 100 listeners in the flesh.

Aaron Nichols: Thank you for coming on, Tim. That’s been This Week in Solar.

What’s New:

Plug-in solar panels are cheap, easy to install, and massively popular in Europe. But as more states legalize them in the U.S., utilities and electrical experts are raising red flags about uniquely American safety hazards.

Why it Matters:

States like Utah, Virginia, Maryland, Maine, and Colorado have passed or are about to pass laws allowing consumers to bypass the complicated utility connection agreements usually required for rooftop solar.

On paper, this looks great. People who normally can’t save with solar, like renters, can just buy a kit, hang it on a balcony, and save money. Plug-in solar offers true “power to the people.” So why aren’t we seeing it roll out faster?

Utilities have successfully stalled similar bills in states like Georgia and Wyoming, citing the need to protect consumers and grid workers.

While advocates claim that utilities are just trying to protect their monopolies, there are some legitimate, documented dangers that we need to overcome before we can deploy plug-in solar in the U.S. I’m going to go through the biggest concerns in no particular order here.

The GFCI Issue:

According to a whitepaper by UL Solutions, backfeeding electricity into standard branch circuits can permanently damage Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter (GFCI) breakers and outlets.

If a GFCI fails, the circuit remains energized but loses its ability to protect against lethal shock hazards in wet locations like patios or kitchens.

“Significant concerns have been noted related to the misuse of GFCIs when backfed. This damage has resulted in GFCI circuitry failure... leaving the branch circuit unprotected from electric shock hazards.”

— UL Solutions Whitepaper

America’s Grid is Different Than Germany’s:

Advocates often point to Germany’s 1.2 million safe plug-in installations. However, the North American electrical grid is fundamentally different.

Germany uses a floating system with whole-house residual current detectors. The U.S. relies on circuit-level GFCI protection. This is not an impossible problem to overcome, but it’s a difficult one.

Lineworker Safety:

Utilities argue that during an outage, unregulated plug-in panels could continue to push electricity back onto the grid, creating a life-threatening shock hazard for utility lineworkers trying to restore power.

Shock Risk:

Plug-in solar kits are designed to back-feed the grid with a standard 120V electrical plug. That means that power is flowing from the panels to the outlet. Consumers are not used to this (every appliance you own pulls power out of the wall, not puts it in).

If the kits are not designed to shut off power the instant that they are unplugged, then someone could touch the prongs of the plug and shock themselves. Solar panels are always live. If they’re in the sun, they’re making power, so the inverter in a plug-in solar kit needs to be able to cut off power the second that it’s unplugged.

Overloaded Circuits & Fire Risks:

Unlike professional installations that use dedicated circuits, plug-in panels rely on consumer common sense. As any American knows, there’s a reason that your microwave says “please don’t put your head in here and turn it on” in the owner’s manual.

Common sense is uncommon. A homeowner could easily plug a 600-watt solar array into the same outdoor circuit powering a hot tub, risking electrical fires.

Overheating:

Because American circuits aren’t designed for two-way power flow, there’s a chance that plug-in kits could overheat wires and cause fires, depending on how close to the electrical panel they’re plugged in.

What’s next:

UL Solutions launched a testing and certification program for plug-in solar in January to address these hazards. Certifications are expected within months, but could take more than a year.

For those already using these kits, experts recommend buying a cheap GFCI outlet tester (they run around $10-$20) to ensure their home’s shock-protection systems haven’t been quietly fried by backfed solar power.

Sources:

Easy-to-use solar panels are coming, but utilities are trying to delay them

Bright Saver State Tracker

Clearing the way for plug-in solar

Why you should never invest in “plug-in” solar panels

Your State-By-State Plug-In Solar Update

What’s new:

As of March 2026, 1 state has passed legislation to legalize plug-in solar kits, and 29 states are considering legalizing them, including Pennsylvania and New Jersey (though bills in PA and New Jersey are currently stalled).

Today’s email includes a complete list of all the states considering this shift, and a link to the relevant legislation.

Plug-in solar kits are small, DIY systems that connect directly to standard 120-volt wall outlets.

People can put them anywhere that gets direct sunlight, plug them into a standard outlet, and use the output to lower their electricity bills.

Why it matters:

Plug-in solar is the most significant deregulation of residential energy in decades. Since Utah legalized it last year, thousands of residents have installed kits.

In Utah, these kits are legally treated like appliances rather than professional construction projects, so they don’t require permits.

70% of Americans have historically been locked out of the solar market due to rental status, roof design, or high upfront costs. Plug-in solar helps change that.

Which Bills Are Close to Passing?

* Colorado’s HB26-1007 advanced through committee last week with a 9-2 vote, and passed the House yesterday (March 5th, 2026) by a vote of 48-16. This bill makes it illegal for a utility to prohibit these kits and allows up to 1,920 watts per meter, 60% higher than Utah’s limit.

* Vermont’s S. 202 passed the Senate with a unanimous 29-0 vote in late January. The bill allows systems up to 1,200 watts per meter.

* Washington’s HB 2296 passed the House 56-38 in February and is now sitting in the Senate Rules Committee. This bill specifically prevents Homeowners’ Associations (HOAs) and landlords from banning plug-in solar devices and also sets a 1,200-watt limit per meter.

* New Hampshire’s SB 540 moved out of the Senate in mid-February with an "Ought to Pass" recommendation. This bill prohibits utilities from charging any extra fees or requiring prior approval for plug-in kits. It also caps the systems at 1,200 watts per meter.

Which Bills Are Dead?

* Georgia’s HB 1304 effectively died in late February. Despite bipartisan sponsorship, House Bill 1304 was “held” by the Energy, Utilities & Telecommunications Committee without a vote after intense opposition from Georgia Power and the state’s Electric Membership Corporations (EMCs).

* Wyoming’s “Affordable Electricity Act of 2026” also failed to advance out of committee this February after the House Transportation, Highways & Military Affairs Committee declined to move the bill forward after hearing testimony almost exclusively from utility representatives.

Utilities in Georgia and Wyoming mainly focused their arguments on:

* An inability to ensure safety if consumers use this tech

* The idea that people who pay less for power wouldn’t be paying their fair share for grid upkeep

A Complete List of States Considering Plug-In Solar

Below is a list of states considering similar legislation.

Utah HB 340 - Enacted (2025)

Colorado HB26-1007 - Advanced (Passed Committee and House)

Vermont S. 202 / H. 598 - Advanced (Passed Senate)

Virginia HB 395 / HB 289 - Advanced (Passed Senate)

Washington HB 2296 - Advanced (In Senate Committees)

New Hampshire SB 540 - Advanced (On Track)

New Jersey S 4982 / S 2368 - Advanced (On Track)

Illinois HB 4371 - Advanced (On Track)

Oregon HB 4080 - Advanced

California SB 868 - Introduced

New York S 8512 / A 9111 - Introduced

Connecticut HB 5340 - Introduced

Idaho HB 612 - Introduced

Arizona HB 2843 - Introduced

Pennsylvania HB 1971 - Introduced

Alaska HB 257 - Introduced

Hawaii HB 2435 - Introduced

Maryland HB 39 / HB 0345 - Introduced

Indiana SB 74 / HB 1084 - Introduced

Iowa HF 2046 - Introduced

Maine LD 1730 - Introduced

Minnesota HF 3555 - Introduced

Rhode Island H 7269 - Introduced

Oklahoma HB 4060 - Introduced

Missouri HB 2444 / 2528 - Introduced

South Carolina HB 4579 - Introduced

New Mexico SB 157 - Introduced

Washington DC HR 1047 - Introduced

Georgia HB 1304 - Sidelined/Dead (Not Voted On)

Wyoming HB 146 - Dead (Voted Down)

Across the country, data centers are gobbling up power, and Americans are paying the bill for rising costs. Everyone involved in building these things needs energy now, but energy infrastructure takes years to build.

Tesla, Sunrun, and Renew Home say they can help meet the ever-growing power needs of A.I. data centers by linking together devices that are already sitting in people’s homes:

* Rooftop solar

* Home batteries

* Smart thermostats

* Other controllable loads

They’re planning to coordinate these into “virtual power plants” that can respond in minutes to increased energy needs.

By the way, if you look up “Virtual Power Plant,” it seems like no one wants you to understand them. This is the Department of Energy’s blurb:

“Virtual power plants, generally considered a connected aggregation of distributed energy resource (DER) technologies, offer deeper integration of renewables and demand flexibility, which in turn offers more Americans cleaner and more affordable power.”

It’s wild how no one wants to state things simply.

The best definition I found comes from the Solar Energy Industries Association:

“A Virtual Power Plant (VPP), also known as a Distributed Power Plant, is a network of decentralized energy sources — like solar panels, home batteries, and smart devices — that work together to generate, store, and manage electricity. It is a system of thousands of smaller devices that are aggregated, and they work together and function much like a traditional power plant, supplying electricity when it’s needed most and helping ease demand on the grid.”

The idea is simple:

* These companies ask customers who already have solar and batteries (or want to sign up for them at a subsidized rate) to opt in to a program

* They then use software to coordinate all of these systems, charging batteries and pulling power from them as needed.

* When the grid is most stressed, they slightly adjust things like thermostats and other smart home devices across millions of homes, then they use that extra power for data centers

The three companies claim they can free up enough capacity during peak demand to cover the equivalent needs of about 17 large data centers.

They cited real programs already running in places like California and parts of the Northeast as proof they can do this, and they say this approach can be deployed in months, especially in data-center hot spots like northern Virginia, where they say hundreds of megawatts could be available quickly.

If you’ve learned something from This Week In Solar and you’d like to learn more, drop your email below, and we’ll keep sending you free solar news!

Why it matters

A.I. is pushing data center growth so fast that the parts of the power system that are slow and expensive to build (new power plants, big solar farms, grid batteries, and new transmission lines) can’t keep up. This is a simple supply/demand problem. Everyone wants power, so power is getting expensive.

The worst strain on the grid happens during peak hours like hot summer evenings or cold snaps, when everyone turns on their AC or heat at the same time.

If home batteries and smart devices can reliably reduce demand or supply power during those peaks, it could delay or reduce the need for new “peaker” plants and major grid upgrades.

Homeowners who participate in these programs can earn payments, bill credits, or even subsidies towards battery installations (all depending on what their installer or utility actually offers).

Personally, if I were thinking about participating in one of these programs, I’d make sure I knew exactly what I was signing up for and that I was going to be fairly compensated before I signed up.

Especially if I was agreeing to let a large corporation adjust my thermostat from afar.

This Week In Solar is always brought to you by Exact Solar, your locally owned, 20-year-old solar installer.

Energy costs are skyrocketing, and no one seems to have a good plan to fix it. Between natural disasters, capacity auctions, utility rate hikes, and data centers gobbling up power, energy just keeps costing more.

You have no control over how much someone charges for power for your home or business, but you can choose to opt out of the cycle by going solar. If you live in New Jersey or Pennsylvania, Exact Solar would love to work with you to see if solar is a good fit for your property.

Whether you have cash to pay for solar up front or you want solar for zero dollars down, we have an option that will fit your needs.

Just click the button below, submit your info, and we’ll show you the numbers!

Sources:

A Solution to A.I.’s Growing Power Demand: Homes

Tesla, Sunrun, Renew Home team up on massive 16GW virtual power plant

Sunrun, Tesla say they have 16 GW of existing home battery capacity to send to utilities

Virtual Power Plant (VPP): Best Practices & Principles

It’s already our most listened-to episode by far since starting This Week In Solar, so we thought we’d take a deeper dive this week.

What Is Plug-In Solar?

For decades, going solar has been a big project, requiring:

* Home ownership

* Thousands of dollars in permits

* Permanent roof modifications (in most cases)

But in the last few years, we’ve started to see mass market “plug-and-play” solar kits all around the world.

These are often called “balcony solar” systems because anyone can slap them on a balcony, plug them into a standard wall outlet, and reduce their electric bills.

In many European countries, you can buy these kits in retail stores, go home, hang them on a railing, and start saving money immediately.

I was in Europe last fall with my family, and I can verify that these kits are absolutely everywhere. (Fun fact, the German word for them is Balkonkraftwerke).

The History of Balcony Solar

This idea isn’t new.

As far back as 2011, when the U.S. Department of Energy launched the SunShot initiative, it included a $25 million grant specifically for “Plug and Play” solar innovation.

However, for the last 15 years, American plug-in solar adoption has been stalled by utility rules only designed for one-way power flow and the permitting nightmares that plague the solar industry.

While the U.S. stagnated, Germany became the global testing ground for balcony solar.

Following a 2019 move to streamline utility connection rules, adoption there exploded. By 2023, Germany saw a quadrupling of legal interconnected systems, proving that if you remove red tape, the public will choose to own their own power.

As of mid-2025, Germany had nearly 800,000 registered balcony solar installations.

Why Europe is So Far Ahead

* High Electricity Rates: Energy prices in Europe have historically been much higher than in the U.S., meaning that a $600 kit pays for itself in less than three years.

* Rental Culture: Over half of Germans rent their homes. The “Solar Package I” policy of 2024 legally protected tenants’ rights to install these systems. It put the burden of proof to deny them on the landlords, who must now provide documentation if they want to refuse a balcony solar system to a tenant.

* Standardization: Europe adopted a standard 800W inverter capacity limit for these systems, which allowed these kits to be treated as household appliances rather than power plants.

UL 3700 Saves The Day?

We’re finally seeing enough demand for balcony solar that a major breakthrough in the U.S. market happened on January 7, 2026.

UL Solutions, a company that provides independent testing, inspection, and certification of all kinds of products, released certification documentation that addresses the major safety hurdles.

This includes things like:

* Touch Safety: The system must shut off power to the plug’s metal prongs in less than one second if it’s unplugged, preventing shock risks.

* Breaker Masking: Systems must monitor the total current in a circuit to ensure that the combined power from the grid and the panels never exceeds the safe limits of your home’s wiring.

Now that plug-in solar kits can be built to an agreed-upon set of standards, utility companies don’t have as strong a case, and there’s less for legislators to push back on.

So, Which States Are Thinking of Legalizing?

Currently, more than 24 states are advancing bills to legalize these systems. Here is where the major players stand:

* Utah (The Pioneer): Passed HB 340 in 2025, allowing plug-in systems up to 1.2 kW without utility approval or fees.

* Virginia: HB 395 is currently moving through the Senate. Similar to Germany’s solution, it would prevent localities and landlords from prohibiting portable solar for apartment dwellers.

* California: The “Plug Into the Sun Act” (SB 868) is currently before the Senate Energy Committee. It aims to reclassify these kits as appliances like toaster ovens to bypass expensive permits.

* New York: The SUNNY Act (SB 8512) seeks to remove regulatory barriers specifically to provide “equitable access” for renters in high-density urban areas.

* Maine & New England: Bills are currently moving through committees in Maine, Rhode Island, and New Hampshire to help residents combat some of the highest utility rate hikes in the country.

What’s Standing in the Way?

The final hurdle is utility resistance.

Monopoly utilities in states like Wyoming and Arizona have successfully lobbied to kill plug-in bills, arguing that they cannot be assured of the quality of consumer-installed products.

On February 20th, Wyoming actually voted its bill down.

Their protests are mostly based on “islanding,” saying that a system might stay energized during an outage or grid repair, posing a risk to line workers.

However, as we now know, UL 3700-certified kits are engineered to shut down instantly during outages.

While we wait for the states and federal government to legalize these kits, there are several companies taking matters into their own hands, like Raya Power.

Raya’s built a combined solar and battery kit that anyone, including renters, can buy and install themselves. It:

* Bypasses the electric panel and backs up critical appliances directly, eliminating any worries about backfeeding the grid

* Lowers bills by running those critical appliances with solar and battery power

* Backs those appliances up in emergencies

Hopefully, as this technology becomes too good to say no to, we’ll see more solutions like Raya’s.

Sources:

Power surge: law changes could soon bring balcony solar to millions across the US

UL Solutions Debuts Testing and Certification Framework for Safer Plug-In Solar Across the United States

How to build a balcony solar kit to UL certification

Lawmaker announces bipartisan plan to allow plug-and-play solar panels in new US markets: ‘People can … just go to Costco or Ikea’

The Plug-In Solar Revolution Comes To America

Lawmakers pull the cord on plug-in solar bill

The SunShot Initiative

Lawmakers pull the cord on plug-in solar bill

Raya Power

On Tuesday, Chief Judge Denise Casper of the U.S. District Court for Massachusetts issued a preliminary injunction halting five Trump administration policies designed to stall solar and wind development.

Why it Matters:

The ruling protects over $905 million in already-invested capital and ensures developers will be able to access between $8-$25 billion in federal tax credits that were at risk due to delays.

Judge Casper noted that stalling these projects harms the public interest by weakening a power grid already struggling to meet record demand from AI data centers and new manufacturing.

The ruling effectively “unfreezes” projects that were trapped in administrative limbo.

The court found that the administration likely violated the Administrative Procedure Act by creating “arbitrary and capricious” barriers to renewable energy.

This ruling protects approximately 57.2 GW of clean energy capacity. That much power is capable of powering millions of homes. Those projects were at risk of cancellation or delay after 2029.

Key Policies Overturned

The injunction targets specific bottlenecks used by the Department of the Interior (DOI) and the Army Corps of Engineers. These included:

* Political Sign-off: The ruling struck down the requirement for Interior Secretary Doug Burgum to personally approve every solar and wind permit. This is a task historically handled by career experts who have industry knowledge about these technologies, not by the Secretary of the Interior.

* The Capacity Density Rule: The ruling also blocked an order that prioritized energy projects based on land-use efficiency. This specifically favors coal and natural gas over solar and wind farms, since fossil fuel technologies typically take less land. If you’re reading or listening and you think that the land use argument is a good one, take a moment to think about the ways we use land in our cities. Parks, golf courses, public land, and anything else we deem a public good are also not financially efficient uses of land. But we agree to use land for those things because we all agree that our lives are better with them around. Clean energy technology is no different.

* Offshore Barriers: The ruling also paused a legal opinion that effectively barred new offshore wind projects if they conflicted with any other ocean use, such as fishing.

What’s Next

While the preliminary injunction is a win for the industry, the legal battle continues as the case moves toward a full trial.

The Trump administration has not yet stated if it will appeal, but proponents of this injunction, like Sen. Martin Heinrich (D-NM), say they now expect a flood of permit approvals in the coming weeks.

The decision may also jumpstart stalled bipartisan “permitting reform” talks in the Senate. Lawmakers are now considering legislation to prevent any future administration from unilaterally canceling lawfully issued energy permits.

Sources:

Federal judge blocks Trump administration restrictions on wind and solar projects

Court curtails Trump administration moves to stifle wind, solar development

A judge blocked Trump’s clean energy blockade. Are projects out of limbo?

Annalisa has spent years troubleshooting the gap between how solar energy systems are modeled to perform and how they actually behave in the field.

Expect to learn:

* Where the industry’s biggest education gaps are, from electricity bills and performance expectations to who is actually responsible when something breaks.

* What happens when hardware, software and finance teams “speak different languages” about the same solar energy system (spoilers, it’s massive confusion).

* Why compassion, clear expectation setting, and real-world experiences matter more than slick marketing.

Quotes from the episode:

“We have software people, hardware people and finance people. They all see the same site through completely different lenses, and the confusion often lives in those gaps.”

- Annalisa Farrell

“If we want solar to be truly sustainable, we should be learning from nature. The earth has already figured out how to live on sunlight.”

- Annalisa Farrell

Transcript:

Aaron Nichols:Hello everyone and welcome back to this week in solar. As always, I’m your host Aaron Nichols, the Research and Policy Specialist here at exact solar in Newtown, Pennsylvania.Yes. And today we are interviewing someone that makes me feel validated that I’m always hammering on we don’t have enough education in the industry.I’ve seen her content on LinkedIn and I’m glad that I’m finally getting to talk to her. It’s Annalisa Farrell, ladies and gentlemen.Annalisa, if you would like to just introduce yourself and talk a bit more about your background in the solar industry?

Annalisa Farrell:Yeah, it’s great to be here, Aaron. Thank you so much. I’ve been in the solar industry for I think coming up on six years now I started right before the pandemic started and in a former role I got to do a lot of the troubleshooting on the data and so being involved in the data monitoring side of things I was involved in a lot of the troubleshooting that happened in between software and the end point of that hardware information collection.So we all know that we’ve got all of those pieces of hardware that are out there in the field, we’ve got those inverters, we’ve got the modules, we’ve got all of these different components out there that all need to be monitored in some way, shape or form to allow us to take that data and make it into something more meaningful for not only, the people that are getting the information, but the wider array of places that that information goes.So in this former role, I was at a company called also Energy and I was there tier two support technician.And that’s how I got started in this industry was doing all of the troubleshooting. So it was a variety of issues that would come in and not to get too into detail there.But it was a lot of fun to see all of the different ways that we could see different sites that were unique and how those different sites that were unique could present different problems.And getting into the industry at that tier two entry level was just the biggest blessing. I started out not really knowing where I was going to go with a sustainability degree, so I knew that I loved the environment, the three pillars of sustainability, the equitable decision making, the environment, and then obviously the economy piece in there as well. So those three pillars, how those were contributing, wasn’t sure where I wanted to go, got into the solar industry through a support role and that support role harnessed a lot of the hardware aspects that we have issues with onsite in addition to all of the software issues that can associate that and then from there in addition to starting out in that role took it into a variety of different places and got to explore a lot more of the solar industry through different roles that taken on and all of which was so much fun to just learn about and I think I’ve got just so much information as to how we understand that data that’s coming in from the hardware where that goes and then how people are going to use it in all of the different ways that people need to utilize that data and all of the areas that data can cost some heartaches for folks and how we can remedy these issues because it gets into the weeds and this is a niche industry and I think that was the reason I got so excited about it was that it is niche, it’s new, it’s exciting people, are trying to discover what the industry standard is daily.What is the industry standard on how we’re going to handle X protocol for X type of site that nobody’s ever seen before with hardware that just came on the market that it’s just all of the different unique situations that come up and all of that were definitely just the most fun to get into of the industry with and then be able to troubleshoot and problem solve in different ways. So I think that’s a little bit about the background and it’s so thrilled to be here.Thank you so much, this is wonderful.

Aaron Nichols:Thank you, yeah, it’s so funny how so many people get here. It seems like you blindly stumbled in just like I did.But then you come for the first job and you stay for the people, like there’s so many amazing people in the solar industry and it sounds like you’re really enjoying the what I call nerd whispering where you take the data and then you talk to the technical minded people who are creating things and driving the industry forward and then you kind of translate that to a wider audience and teach them how to actually understand what it is.

Annalisa Farrell:Exactly and then yeah and it depends I think the thing even with the stumble into the industry, even if you stumble, it’s kind of like you get, an offshoot of something and all of a sudden that’s the thing that you have knowledge on.You just worked into it and it’s fun to through all of my past roles and different experiences. It’s been interesting to see through the different levels of companies where people would come in with different types of questions.So I would say that even where people are stumbling into the industry at all levels, it’s so interesting to see all of the different.I don’t want to say education gaps, but perhaps the education that’s still coming out that still is being made aware to everyone.So it’s definitely fun to see all of that.

Aaron Nichols:Yeah, it’s never ceases to amaze me. This is something I joke about all the time.How everything is a deep rabbit hole. No matter what you get into, there’s just people who are intense about it.That’s their whole lives, and that doesn’t matter if it’s solar energy, or if it’s knitting, there’s someone who is just insane about it.

Annalisa Farrell:Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I love it. I love that I keep finding that. It’s like sourdough bread is like that.I think there are so many different systems that are in place that have to work together. And I think the sustainability degree that I got at Colorado Mountain College was a huge part of my understanding for solar because when I came into right that first role, getting all of these different problems.It seemed like there was no logic to the system that I was understanding. And then once you get into the different types of rates that people are interested in how financial reporting works into different situations, which types of people are interested in which pieces of information are we more interested in revenue grade meters? Are we more interested in the inverter level? Who’s troubleshooting what? For what reason? And you just dive in.Again, like you He said to all of those different rabbit holes, but I think with the systems of it, once you start getting into, okay, the software system already existed, right?People were already using the internet, people were already using this framework of software. Software existed, right? Software existed and then hardware already existed, but not in the fashion that we’re connecting it to hardware.So the connection point, I feel like is something that’s been unique to watch people learn how to monitor sites and going through different monitoring protocols.What different companies think are important to some extent. It has been fascinating that it’s still evolving as well with different error codes on in borders.Like, what does this one mean? Will we talk to a different manufacturer that has a different error code meaning for different problems?How do we, harmonize language, I think throughout the industry as well in addition to our abundance of acronyms.

Aaron Nichols:Well, I would love to talk about translating all of that information to the wider public.I think you mentioned before we started recording that you’ve worked to educate a lot of homeowners who actually didn’t even realize that operations and maintenance were part of owning a solar energy system.I’m interested in how those conversations have gone and also why you think there’s is such a knowledge gap there that needed to be addressed.

Annalisa Farrell:I wouldn’t even say it’s primarily with homeowners. That was certainly an aspect of parts of my past roles. It was, I think, the most vulnerable that I’ve seen someone in the solar industry genuinely asking for help as compared to when we get into more commercial and utility conversations, those types of calls, someone’s in it, it’s a job. it’s part of the day-to-day. They at least have an experience and understanding if you’re in that job calling into that role, kind of, or calling into request assistance.In comparison, a homeowner having minimal experience, not really understanding any part of the solar industry, they’re calling in for assistance based on the, how do we put this politely?The reality television show that is the solar industry with all of the name changes and it’s all over the place.There are so many different things happening all of the time in this industry, but it does keep it very interesting.For a homeowner to have absolutely no idea, hey, I need a solar O&M company. Someone came to me, I have this system.It’s installed on my roof. I can see that I should be getting X amount of dollars that were assured to me by X Individual, backed by X company.And now I, the homeowner, hypothetically, in their call coming in, are saying, I have this. I’m not seeing this dollar about coming in.Something is wrong here. Lo and behold, they find out that perhaps that company has gone out of business due to the volatility of the market.And again, as I’ve kind of noted the reality TV show of it, so the volatility of the market, perhaps that company’s gone out of business, that homeowner has no idea what’s going on.And from there, it’s you need to Google a solar O&M company in your zip code to find out how somebody can get out there to resolve the issues that are happening at your site because I can see that in the data.I can’t, I can see that you’re not getting that on your bill. And from there, that leads to the confusion, the panic.I don’t know what’s going on. I can see that I was assured these dollars. It’s not offsetting. I had their plans for this.And to see someone at that moment in their most vulnerable moment, trying to say, I need help. I’ve called all of the members.Somebody, nobody’s getting back to me. Please leave me the time of day. I need some compassion, some empathy, the talk me through this.What can you tell me? And so sometimes I feel like it was just going through the information with someone and ensuring them, hey, you’re at this address.Yes, I’m at that address. Fantastic. This is great. I’m so happy that you’re at that address. You know, start giving people yes questions.And your name is yes. Oh, this is great. I see this is your email address. Is that yes? Okay. Cool.So it’s like I can go through certain pieces of information. reassure someone, give them all of the steps, and yes, let me empower you to do a Google search to look for solar, O&M, plus your zip code.Let’s get you on your way. Because, you know, in that point of view, from the data monitoring aspect of it, and particularly in analysis, you can’t help somebody through that because it’s their contract, and that’s a different system that’s operating within the solar industry as a whole.And that’s one piece of it that can simply get really tricky. Really tricky, really fast.

Aaron Nichols:Yeah, and that’s something that we, as a company who’s been around for 20 years, we have such an uphill battle to fight because there’s, there’s just so many companies that have come in, over-promised, built a system and then gone out of business or disappeared and left a homeowner just kind of holding the bag.And that’s why we always have to encourage homeowners. you should go with someone local who’s been doing it a long time who’s going to treat your home well because if you just go with the bargain basement price and you don’t do a lot of research, I mean it’s very likely, but very possible that they’re not going to build the system to actually be durable for 25 years.And to get into that system then is, okay, we have the system that’s operating itself, right, as that thing, you know, connecting to the grid person’s home or, you know, you get into a commercial space utility space, how all of that is operating in the care, the quality is something that is the most important that efficiency, the quality and I think for this industry to continue to thrive. It is that diversity through all of the different teams checking in saying okay We’ve got one person monitoring. We’re making sure that we’re monitoring that we’ve got preventative maintenance kind of checks We’ve got the correct it like that those are standard throughout the industry and yet there still seems to be a question of Quality of work throughout the industry is kind of of the barrier I think we’re all trying to overcome to see where there is quality work as compared to where there is room to improve or to educate and to understand why someone wouldn’t have the time to do quality work and understanding the larger demand of the solar industry is huge right now.Like it seems like the business continues just to thrive personal opinion. It seems as though the business is dry or business industry is thriving and it’s nice to see that as people are continuing to invest in solar energy, it’s that okay, there’s still a demand and need for people in this industry and quality people, and do people have enough time to get to those sites? Do we have enough time for it?You know, what’s the quality scheduling? I think mindfulness truly is the theory there that quality scheduling giving people enough time to do the work with proper education to ensure that we get that best data and then from there can ensure the actual versus expected model data through estimates that have been assured to all parties throughout the industry if that makes sense.

Aaron Nichols:Yeah, of course. And I think that comes down to incentives at the end of the day.I mean, what are the incentives for someone to do a great job? And if a company has been around for a long time and they have good reviews.That means that, they, the only way they continue to stay in business is by doing the right thing by homeowners.I think homeowners and even for the whole solar industry, I would say for homeowners. Well, you also mentioned that you’ve worked with executives who didn’t understand the way solar hardware and software work together.What did you mean when you said that? That’s called anybody out. We’re not pouring all of it to you. But it’s been examples in which I would say there is a value that someone has seen.

Annalisa Farrell:That’s called anybody out. We’re not pouring all of it to you. But it’s been examples in which I would say there is a value that someone has seen.And it goes, you know, as we know, the solar industry is well-based within the finance industry and that that’s something, you know, there’s publicly traded companies here.and it’s nice to see that it’s at that level of involvement, but then that also means right, we had the software people that it existed doing software things.They knew their network setups, they knew software, they do software stuff. We have hardware people, they do hardware stuff, we knew that hardware people existed.That connection, that melding is already something that is at questionable, like we’re already struggling through that point sometimes. and then de-factoring in addition to that finance world, also already existed in the finance world, likes to play in hardware and software.So you bring these three systems together with different languages, different ways of understanding one another and getting into the points of software person has issue with hardware person equals finance person sees number.When the finance person, you know, we’re the executive, the person who’s looking at how are we performing? Why am I not seeing these metrics?allowing the success I want to see. I know that my team is working hard. I’m not seeing the success that I want to see represented.Why is that happening? And sometimes it can come down to small system errors, you know, the way that communication is happening between two pieces of hardware or software.Or there was a glitch where an inverter wasn’t producing, but the meter was. And And how can how do those two things interact equaling something that’s ending up on someone’s desk that is not necessarily involved in the in the day to day operations, but still wants to be involved to get this piece.And so to that extent, I would say that there are also metrics that are being utilized that sometimes maybe aren’t the best indicators to how the site is performing, right?So we have our estimates which are giving us how the site should produce, that’s what we’re selling to the homeowners, that’s what we’re pitching to people, you know, here’s what it could produce.This is the estimate of the system. And then once the site actually starts producing, we get into the actual production values in addition to the expected production values, how those two match up to the estimate, etc. are up.And when those metrics are calculated, there are different pieces that go into the software that have to be represented by the hardware.And those two pieces, it’s like a mystery. I feel like if anything, I would be a puzzler because I constantly enjoy going down those rabbit holes and figuring out which which which nuance piece did somebody miss here that it was it in the modeling that we missed this number was it in was it a piece of hardware on site that didn’t have the right wiring configure, you know, what are we looking at here? How did how is someone fussy about why this number doesn’t look right?And then to follow that question, are we looking at the actual versus expected numbers, a predicted estimate, what language are we using there?A first question, and then to follow that up, is that even a good number for us to look at? Because I feel like availability has been a number that has Availability has been in the industry for a minute, and my absolute beef with availability is that there are so many different ways to calculate it, and if you have so many different ways to calculate availability, that everybody could do a different.And there’s just, For anyone who’s listening who’s not in the industry, it doesn’t know what that is.What is availability? Availability is a metric that is derived from the pieces of hardware that are on site. So we have our modules, which generally are not monitored, however, there are companies out there that do monitor modules, and you can get into individual module panel.You can monitor those. You can get into that level of monitoring. In addition to that, you can get all the way out into a more removed level of monitoring, which you’d be only looking at the meter.So if you’ve got the module you’ve got the panel those rows of panels then I’ll go into an inverter the inverter right We know it’s taking our direct current turning it into all treating current or then getting that to the grid Depending on the system layout could be any number of however somebody wants to look at it and then from there Excuse me from there right We’ve got the inverters that then are taking that information up to a revenue grade meter revenue grade meter hypothetically sending all of that information out again depending on system setup.So availability is looking at all of the pieces that are on site and saying how often were you available to produce energy.And there are different ways that you can say how available were you to produce energy. I’m so sorry, I’m going to call.

Aaron Nichols:That’s okay. I can edit it. No worries. Go for it.

Annalisa Farrell:Thank you. Oh my goodness. I appreciate that. Yeah. I’ve been rambling and I apologize.

Aaron Nichols:That’s okay. Let me think about how we can bring this home. So obviously, all of this is so complex. I mean, there’s so many things here that the average person just doesn’t understand.I’m finding that to be so true when it comes to electricity generation, electricity distribution, how electricity is made and how it gets to your house.There’s so many people who don’t even understand how their electricity bill actually works when we’re talking to homeowners. So, where do you think the biggest education gap in the solar industry is right now?What do we need to do a better job of communicating to the public?

Annalisa Farrell:That’s a very, very good question to communicate to the public. cool to start off with now. I think that it would be really great for people to have more compassion when they’re installing the systems to some extent and then during those times where we see volatility within our industry to understand what builds those companies even though they are floundering or you know they’re making a transition in the industry perhaps you know they’re being purchased perhaps that company is going in a different direction.I think it would be crucial that as those shifts in the industry occur that there is compassion and empathy towards the homeowners during that time especially understanding, hey, as we installed your system, this is what it’s expected to produce, you should be receiving X type of communication through, you know, mail, email, this type of format is how you will be receiving that.And then during that, you know, end-of-company time or whatever that looks like during the volatility of their issue, I would say that it’s crucial to communicate, this is what you need to look for.These are your next steps, due to issues perhaps seen or unforeseen to the reason that someone would leave the industry.We’re leaving the industry. The company is leaving the industry or as homeowners enter the industry. This is what you’re aware of to make sure that they have resources available and you know, there are great resources out there like the Colorado Agrivoltaic Learning Center that offers tours where you can go on to a site see the great capabilities of solar.You can see how agriculture and a microclimate under a panel can lead to longevity with the system and all of the different ways that you can have different pieces of, you know, farm animals on sites.The benefits larger than just, hey, it’s on my roof. I would say that it would be important to get people involved on the level that they get to feel they experience something.So perhaps more resources across the U.S. involving, you know, outreach is the Colorado Agrival take learning center has been doing to involve people a little bit more and recommending that hey field trips are there because I think the opposite direction that we would prefer it to go would be that you get tick-tock influencers on solar sites trying to say hey this is the cool thing which isn’t I don’t think the soul of the industry which is to say we want this through a technical engineering way to be something that’s beneficial to people and to see it real world through an agricultural point of you I think would be most beneficial and so if you had resources at the beginning the you know companies telling you hey this is what could happen you’ve got resources outside of that company and then should something happen at the end of a company’s time within the industry this is how we could treat you with a little compassion and empathy to say, Hey, here are your other companies that we would recommend looking at. And we are doing this for you, the consumer, because you helped us during this time to even build this company.Thanks for being a part of our vision here. Now we’d like to repay your investment in us by saying here’s the compassion and allowing you an exit or helping us through our exit.Here’s your next source because is, thank you for helping us a little bit.

Aaron Nichols:So just more clarity and expectation setting up front.Yeah. Well, and Alisa, to bring it home, I always I ask all my guests the same question at the end.And it has to do with the fact that I was at my grandma’s 80th birthday party a couple months ago.And I realized as I was sitting there that 80 years means she was born into a world where renewable energy did not exist.And everything that we now are fighting for wasn’t even a possibility when she was born in 1945. She was born right after the Rural Electrification Act in 1933, I believe, 1935, somewhere in there.And Solar PV was invented in 1954. Jimmy Carter put solar panels on the White House in 1979 and then all of that development and just dropping of PV prices happened since the millennium.So I’m curious if you just want to spitball and throw out an answer, what do you think clean energy will look like 80 years from now?

Annalisa Farrell:Oh my, I truly hope it’s a more inclusive biomimetic process involving more portions of the environmental world within the hardware software components so there are companies that have been recently introduced the one that comes to mind at the top of my head as soulless industries.They’re out of Silverthorn Colorado and the concepts behind biomimicry, biomimetic concept is along the bullet train where we think about the bird that was referenced, the King Sparrow or something along those lines with the bullet train, to go along with aerodynamics.They were experiencing issues in the tunnel with the bullet train. And as the tunnel was going through the bullet train and it created an awful noise, they go, okay, oh, it’s the King Fisher, that’s the bird.So then they referenced, well, the King Fisher is able to dive at these incredible speeds, how do we reference that in the bullet train?And I think it would be cool to see that as they adopted the beak shape into the bullet train or the beak shape of the kingfisher into the bullet train, it would be nice to see the solar industry adopt more nature processes and biomimetics and how do we actually track the sun?So in soulless industries that was out of silver, or is out of silver-thorn Colorado. They were looking at different pieces of how heating oil was a more efficient way to track the sun as sunflowers do.So sunflowers track the sun all day and flowers are able to track the sun all day. We’re sitting here with algorithms and you know all of the different register tables to put it into the software to make sure that I can you know it’s tracking appropriately based on an irradiant sensor.But I think in 80 years there’s going to be hypothetically more integration with natural products where we’re seeing, you know, the technology that is referencing biodegradable and that we can recycle panels more efficiently that they’re able to be utilized on the outside of buildings that we can see absolute integration across total types of buildings and infrastructure.But in a way that’s very mindful and thoughtful aware of the best integration of these systems to say, you know, this is a spot where we really could utilize this and it’s going to be the best way for us to harness the sun without compromising any of the environmental aspects that we have because currently, you know, we’re doing great putting them on rooftops hate to see the clear cutting of landscapes hate to see the clear cutting of any type of environment where we’re putting into, you know, a monoculture.So at least let’s do dual use in agriculture or, you know, start looking at ways that we could put them on the outsides of buildings and get into the Jetsons future.It seems not that far off. But in a very mindful thoughtful way that’s saying, okay, what’s the best use of materials here so that we can do the efficiency biodiversity biodiversity of the sun that nature has been using for forever.And so it’s like the environment’s already thrived on this. The earth has sustained itself for long enough. If we’d like to sustain the solar industry, let’s start looking at how we can adopt some of the reference points throughout the other points of nature that we have, I think, not to be too much,

Aaron Nichols:but that’s a beautiful vision.

Annalisa Farrell:Well, I hope so. Yeah. I’ve got a little positive hopeful vision. Yeah.

Aaron Nichols:Well, if people want to find you, where can you be found?If you want to be found?

Annalisa Farrell:Currently I’m on LinkedIn right now and that would be the best way to contact me or through email.

Aaron Nichols:Okay, great. Yeah. Well, yeah, if anybody wants to talk to Annalisa and go find her on LinkedIn, thank you so much for coming on today.And for anyone listening, that’s been this week in solar.

Earlier this week, the Department of Energy rebranded the National Renewable Energy Laboratory, or NREL, as the National Laboratory of the Rockies, effective immediately, and to be “reflected in all public communications and official correspondence.”

NREL is responsible for many of the advances in solar and battery technology that we’ve seen in the past few decades.

Why it matters:

The renaming is part of the Trump Administration’s continuing “all-of-the-above” energy strategy.

Department of Energy materials still list wind and solar as major laboratory research areas, and when asked if those would be deprioritized, NREL spokesperson David Glickson said:

“No such changes are planned at this time. Program funding is determined by the appropriations process.”

The Golden, Colorado-based lab, which was founded after the 1973 oil crisis to make America less dependent on energy imports, has historically been a hub for researching newer and more sustainable energy technologies.

In response to the rebrand, Earthjustice’s Michael Hiatt said:

“Solar, wind, and other clean energy technologies are the cheapest and most cost-effective resources in Colorado, and they have been for years. Changing NREL’s name will not change that fact. The reality is that the Trump administration’s attacks on clean energy and its attempts to prop up uneconomic coal and gas plants are increasing costs and causing unnecessary energy affordability burdens for millions of Americans.”

Assistant Secretary of Energy Audrey Robertson said:

“The energy crisis we face today is unlike the crisis that gave rise to NREL. We are no longer picking and choosing energy sources. Our highest priority is to invest in the scientific capabilities that will restore American manufacturing, drive down costs, and help this country meet its soaring energy demand. The National Laboratory of the Rockies will play a vital role in those efforts.”

White House Taking a Counterintuitive Approach to Meeting Data Center Energy Demand

What’s new

According to a new report by Bloomberg, the White House’s plan to speed up new data centers while slowing down the wind and solar projects that could quickly power them will raise energy prices for millions of Americans.

Why it matters

Utilities now expect a huge jump in power use by 2030, mostly from data centers. AI needs a lot of power, fast.

Solar, wind, and battery projects can be built in under five years, while gas and coal plants take much longer. They’re also the cheapest to build.

As one energy expert said:

“In the next 10 years, there’s really nothing to replace renewables.”

If we slow down clean energy, data centers may face delays, and power bills could rise. It’s clear that the fastest, lowest-cost path to meet this new demand is to build more renewables and storage now.

U.S. Solar Manufacturers Strike Deals to Bring Solar to Space

What’s new:

Two U.S. companies are taking solar power into space. Solestial in Arizona signed a Space Act Agreement with NASA’s Glenn Research Center. Ascent Solar in Colorado sent test panels to a major space company (which remained anonymous) for missions between Earth and the Moon.

Why it matters:

Space has no clouds and no night, so solar is the perfect power source for spacecraft. But space is harsh on any materials, and getting anything into orbit takes a ton of fuel. Spacecraft need solar panels that are light, tough, and safe from radiation.

Both companies aim to create more reliable power for Moon and orbit missions.

Ascent’s thin-film panels are designed to be light and strong, producing high power at low weight.

NASA will test Solestial’s ultra-thin silicon panels to see how they handle space charging and shocks. The panels can heal some radiation damage in sunlight and are built to last up to 10 years in space.

Sources

News Release: Energy Department Renames NREL ‘National Laboratory of the Rockies’‘

POLITICO Pro | Article | DOE removes ‘renewable energy’ from lab’s name, shifts focus

Trump admin renames National Renewable Energy Laboratory

Trump’s Plan For AI Dominance Threatened by His Own Attacks on Solar, Wind Power

US Solar Manufacturers Ink Spacecraft Deals

In the first half of 2025, wind and solar made more electricity than coal worldwide for the first time ever. Clean power grew faster than the world’s rising need for electricity, meaning that demand for coal was ever so slightly driven down.

Solar led the way. It jumped by about one-third from last year and met 83% of the new electricity demand worldwide.

The International Energy Agency says renewables could more than double globally by 2030, with 80% of that new capacity coming from solar.

Why it matters

This is a turning point, and China and India did most of the lifting. China added more clean power than the rest of the world combined and used 2% less fossil fuel than the previous year. India’s renewables grew more than three times faster than its electricity demand, leading to a 3.1% decrease in coal generation and a 34% decrease in gas generation across the country.

In the U.S., however, demand outran clean power growth, and coal generation rose 17% in the first half of the year. In Europe, a weak year for wind and hydropower meant gas rose 14% and coal ticked up 1.1%, even as solar kept growing.

Global energy think tank Ember says that more than half of the world’s economies have already passed their peak use of fossil fuels for electricity. Ember’s experts called the clean transition “unstoppable,” since costs for solar, wind, and batteries continue to fall, while the price of fossil fuels remains steady or continues to rise.

So far, 2025 has shown that clean power can keep up with and even outpace demand.

EIA Data Shows That States With More Solar and Wind Power Pay Less for Electricity

What’s new

POLITICO dug into federal Energy Information Administration data and found a clear pattern: on average, states that deploy more wind and solar pay less for electricity.

Of 22 states that get higher-than-average shares of power from wind/solar, 17 had below-average prices in June. 13 of those states voted red in 2024.

In states where wind and solar were deployed faster over the past four years, many saw price increases below the national average, even as U.S. power costs rose 23.4% since 2021.

Why it matters

The current administration is citing high prices as reasons to pause or cancel clean-energy projects, while market data continues to show that new power from solar and wind is cheaper than that from new fossil fuel generation.

When he spoke at the U.N. last month, President Trump labeled wind “the most expensive energy ever conceived,” said “all green is all bankrupt,” and vowed, “We’re getting rid of the falsely named renewables.” His energy secretary, Chris Wright, claimed that Texas has “the most expensive electricity” in the south, even though EIA data shows the opposite. Texas’s power is cheaper than in most neighboring states, and states adding lots of clean energy are more likely to post lower prices or smaller hikes.

The grid needs new capacity fast as data centers and electrification drive demand and higher prices. By far the cheapest way to meet that need is with solar and storage. Blocking those projects will mean higher energy bills for more Americans across the board.

Using price fears to roll back renewables, when they’re the cheapest form of new power, puts consumers on the hook for even more expensive power in the future.

SEIA Launches New Solar Recycling Resource

What’s new

This week, SEIA (the Solar and Storage Industries Association) launched SolarRecycle.org, a free hub to help the industry recycle panels, batteries, and related gear. The site, released alongside SEIA’s first sustainability conference, offers an interactive map of used solar panel collection sites, SEIA-vetted recycling partners, and a tracker of state and local end-of-life laws for solar components.

Why it matters

Since solar + storage make up most new U.S. power additions, planning for the end-of-life of these systems as we install them is essential. Unfortunately, a lot of old solar panels are landfilled currently since recycling isn’t available in most areas. But old solar panels contain components that can be reused.

SEIA’s new site gives companies a real-time resource they can use while they’re out in the field replacing old systems. Hopefully, we see more and more companies taking advantage of this resource.

Sources

World Nearing ‘Crucial Turning Point’ as Clean Energy Outpaces Power Demand - Newsweek

Global renewable energy generation surpasses coal for first time

The government’s own data rebuts Trump’s claims about wind and solar prices - POLITICO

Solar and Storage Industry Launches New Online Resource to Enhance Solar Recycling, Support Long-Term Sustainability

https://www.solarrecycle.org/

Reflecting on her nine-year tenure, Abby discusses how she transformed SEIA by creating a culture of vulnerability and embracing thought leadership.

(She also spills the beans on what she’s doing next).

Listen to this episode on:

* YouTube

* Apple Podcasts

* Spotify

Connect with Abby on LinkedIn here.

Expect to learn:

* Why personal branding is a critical tool for getting messages out there in 2026 (Abby went from 30,000 LinkedIn followers to 70,000 in less than two years).

* How Abby built a company culture that SEIA’s employees love.

* Advice for solar industry newcomers on how to find “your people.”

Quotes from the episode:

“I believe in my soul that in order to be highly effective and deeply impactful, we need to be connected to the people around us.”

- Abby Hopper

“I’ve never met a more scrappy industry. We’re constantly being challenged, and we constantly keep coming up with new iterations and new ways to get our work done.”

- Abby Hopper

Transcript:

Aaron Nichols: Abby, I’ve noticed that you’ve like, really embraced thought leadership during your time at the Solar Energy Industries Association. And several other large companies seem to be doing the same thing like Kelly McPherson with Navigating the Grid at Radiant, Benoit Tanjan at Solar Maverick Podcast, Juliet Piper at Goodleap. Why do you think so many companies are now putting time and resources into putting faces on their brands?

Abby Hopper: Yeah, it’s a good question. Um. And I’ll tell you why I do it, and then I can hypothesize about why I think I’ll do it. I mean, I have done it not really as sort of a sea of branding exercise, but more of a way to talk to our members and the solar and storage community, right? Like there’s the world I live in, policy, politics. So it couldn’t feel really inaccessible and really far away, you know, and especially like over this summer and the spring and the summer when there’s all this battle over HR1 and are we gonna get the tax credits? Are we gonna keep the tax credits or the tax credits going away? Like not really knowing who to believe and what to believe and who had the story. I felt like it was really important to be a voice. I was like, let me just tell you what’s really going on.

And that like because of that, it became more of like a brand that it didn’t start out with that way. I feel like I know the other people that you mentioned, you know, in friends with all of them. And I think each of them are storytellers in their own way. And so it’s certainly for brands a way to differentiate themselves. It’s a way for people to feel a connection because they feel connected to the person. But I also think, especially the three that you mentioned are really interested in people and in what makes this industry go and how things are evolving and how technologies are evolving and where the innovation is happening. So I can say for me it’s been such a joy to like use my voice in this different way.

Aaron Nichols: Yeah, and I think that there’s a lot of data that seems pretty clear that people tend to follow people and engage with people a lot more than they do with an organization page. So you can really, I guess, think of your own LinkedIn page, which has grown tremendously, as just another way of getting information out there to people who don’t really want to follow a brand page.

Abby Hopper: Yeah. Well, I think that’s right. And one of the things I’ve noticed is that because I use my LinkedIn differently, I think then some people do, like, what I write about today. Oh, today I wrote about a Washington Post article that, you know, shows that there was there’s an experiment where a woman changed her gender to male and then asked Chachibiti to make her post more masculine, whatever that might mean, and her impressions quadrupled overnight. It’s fascinating, right? I’m not saying whether that’s good bad, but I’m saying like we should be thinking about what does that mean.

Tomorrow I’m writing about the word of the day after you and I get off the phone, I’ll do that. Then on Wednesday, I’m writing about supply chains and storage costs in the solar and storage, like not storage, but like getting stuff to places costs. And that, like, mix of personal and professional information and reflection, I think that makes it more interesting It makes me more interesting for me personally. That’s the kind of people I follow, like Kelly. You know, Kelly does that too. I know more about ranching and rodeos than I did.

Aaron Nichols: Yeah. She’s awesome.

Abby Hopper: She’s so awesome, but don’t you wanna go out to her house and ride around in her horses? It looks gorgeous.

Aaron Nichols: It does. Yeah.

Abby Hopper: Yeah. And I think, I mean, that’s the type of creator I am to and the reason, like, I was gonna do it somewhere and I picked LinkedIn, but I just, I’m interested in stuff and I want people to know. Well, I’m interested in stuff and I want people to know and I’m also interested in what other people think about stuff, right? Like, like, I’m curious. Like, how are people thinking about large language models and inherent bias or how are people thinking about, like, like what are they want to accomplish in 2026? Like I love, I love stories. Like I love people and I love the stories they tell. And so I have found like did to be a really good platform for eliciting those kinds of stories in ways that it might not have been intended for, but it’s certainly super effective at.

Aaron Nichols: Yeah, I’ve really, I’ve enjoyed my time on there so much. And unfortunately, as we all know, as everyone who follows you knows, you’re transitioning out of your role as the CEO of the Solar Energy Industries Association. So I would love to know what you’re proudest of as you’re looking back on your time there and everything you’ve accomplished.

Abby Hopper: Yeah. It’s hard to pick like one thing, right, because I’ve been there for nine years now. But I will I will say there’s a personal one and a professional not personal but like an organizational one and a professional one and the professional one is the passage of the inflation reduction. I mean that was just was so Transformation for our industry and it was such a show of force in terms of our advocacy and our Impact and you know, we can have a long conversation.

Sorry. I’m always wiggly. I can’t sit still I do not sit still ever.

Aaron Nichols: So I have the same curse right I’m always like oh I’m standing right now are you really playing with my wedding ring yeah I could stay with mine but uh no I play with my hair I play with my pen and I rearrange my legs.

Abby Hopper: So the passage of the IRA like you know Now, it has been amazing, it has transformed the industry, it will continue to transform it, even with some of the rollbacks, it’s still transformational. So that’s what I’m like really proud of. And, you know, having been there for the years leading up to it on the whole fight for the year and a half that it happened, it did just happen overnight. That was awesome. And then getting to go to the White House and having this big party on our roof and like it was just awesome.

Um, um, I think internally the thing on the most proud of is the culture we’ve created. And I, you know, that’s like such a, what does that even mean, Abby? Like, you’re critical. I don’t know what that means.

Aaron Nichols: It’s a nice buzz word.

Abby Hopper: It is so busy. Um, but I mean, things like we’ve been voted multiple times as one of the best workplaces, right? By our employees. And, um, and it means that people, like come up to me, like at the holiday party we had last month and say, well, I’ve never worked anywhere like this before. Like I’ve been in politics. I’ve been in solar for a decade, two decades. And I’ve never been at a place where like people really value us as people and not just as workers, right? And and it’s I feel really proud of that. I’m really trust that that will continue after I leave because I think that’s a lot of magic sauce of what makes see a such an effective place.

Aaron Nichols: I didn’t write this down as a question, but I’m interested to go down that rabbit hole a little bit with you. Like, what is culture and how do you create great culture?

Abby Hopper: Yeah. The way I think about culture is sort of, how does it feel to be at work? Like for us, it’s work. How does it, what does it feel like? And do I, do I feel included and welcomed and listened to and valued and like listen to and value aren’t the same as being like I always agree with or get my way right that’s not the kind of workplace I create but something where people get to say their piece and get to have a voice and what and how the how the work gets done. So I think that’s part of it I think like how do we make that happen is through a lot of like conversations with employees around you know what do they think what are they doing how can we do it better but also like hey um you should probably go home like you know you don’t get an award here for staying late like you don’t get no word for emailing me at 10 o’clock at night in fact if you’re emailing me at 10 o’clock at night I’m probably gonna ask you like what’s going on um Yeah, I always tell my team like we don’t have emergencies in solar right like we really don’t We work really really hard, but we also like I’m better at my job when I’m happy And I’m happy when I see the people I love and I get enough sleep and I you know read interesting books I’m not really good at my job when I’m just running on fumes.

Yeah, so that’s a part of it And then like, you know, we pay for healthcare and we match our 401k and like we, uh, we give people the week between Christmas and New Year’s off without having to take PTO. And this year, I mean, the year was so rough that I just closed the office for a week at August. And it was like, everyone just go, go, we don’t have to take PTO, we’re just shutting down and resting for a week, right? Like that’s in my mind. That’s what it means. Right. Well, what do you think? I mean, you work. What is the culture mean to you?

Aaron Nichols: I think culture means being valued and just being seen as human, like not feeling like an automaton to me, being knowing that I’m able to just express how weird I am. Like, I have a very irreverent sense of humor. So getting to sneak in some jokes and have that be respected is a big part of culture for me because if If we’re not being ourselves, then what are we doing? I have a big issue with professionalism in general Because it’s just this idea that we pretend that we’re a bunch of people that we’re not I would much rather work in a place where I can I can be funny. I want I like being funny And I guess my guess is most people would prefer to be around you when you’re being funny.

Abby Hopper: Yeah. Yeah. I think that’s probably right.

Aaron Nichols: Well, going back to that unfortunate week in August where you’ve told everyone to go away for a week and just recharge. I mean, obviously we’ve had a very difficult year. We might be headed for a difficult few years as an industry. So, as you’re transitioning out as CEO of the Solar Energy Industries Association, what advice do you have for us all as we’re navigating this next few years together?

Abby Hopper: Yeah, I would say like, again, kind of the professional on the personal and the professional side. I mean, you know better than I, the demand is there, right? Customers want our product, and so remaining innovative and flexible about how we deliver that product And how we communicate about that product and what we’re offering and sort of being very solutions oriented and very like almost technology agnostic, which is funny because I represent the solar storage industry, but really, you know, understanding that customers want reliable affordable clean, they do, they want clean power and like, they don’t really care, like and what constellation it comes. So if it’s a combination of storage and solar or wind and storage or whatever, just like get it to them and the best way possible, one of the reasons I wanted to work in this industry was because I’ve never met a more like scrappy industry, right? We’re constantly being challenged and we constantly keep coming up with new iterations and new ways to get our work done.

So I was, that was my strong professional advice is to like stay ahead of the curve there. And then I think personally, it’s what like staying connected to other people and other people that make you happy both personally, but professionally, right? Like some of my closest friends I met in the solar industry, which I wouldn’t have guessed when I got here. You know, that wasn’t my goal in becoming the CEO. My goal was to just like pay the bills and have a good career, but I have met some of my closest friends here and feeling grounded in that and like there’s so much satisfaction in what we’re doing, even when it’s really hard is important. So, you know, find some really good friends. There’s a quote I love by Joseph Campbell that the influence of a vital person vitalizes.

Aaron Nichols: And it’s so yeah, it’s so important to stay connected, and I’ve actually, I’ve been really impressed by the quality of people that I’ve met in the solar industry and just, like, what a great filter it is for people of quality, because I’ve been in so many rooms that I thought were going to be my people and weren’t. Like, I was a, I was a Peace Corps volunteer, unfortunately, very briefly before we were evacuated and I was an educator and I kept thinking I was going to find my people and I didn’t until I got here. And what is it about the people here that makes me feel like they’re your people.

Abby Hopper: The scrappiness is a big part of it. The understanding that we’re a part of something bigger and the willingness to sacrifice in service of something greater is a big one and the creativity that it has taken to just constantly pivot business strategies. I mean, I’ve only been here two and a half years and we’ve done it so many times. I am last year was the 50th anniversary of Sia and I had the chance to interview some of the founders, like these older, you know, like gentlemen in their late 70s or early 80s and one of them said something that was so profound to me because, you know, imagine 1974 we were, it’s It’s not like it is today, right? And he said to me, like Abby, we were selling a dream. Like, we were, you know, we were asking people to believe and invest in a dream. That’s not us anymore. Like, we have product, we were $70 billion in a dream. It’s not a dream, but I just, I love that idea. And I do feel like part of the scrappiness, I’m part of the higher purpose, is that we can see a way that the world should be. And we believe in profit, right? Like, you have to pay our, you know, pay our workages and support our families. And so the idea that you can both do good and do well, I like that combination myself.

Aaron Nichols: That’s really funny that you say that because that’s exactly what brought me here because it was after that time, Peace Corps education, nonprofits. I was like, all right, I wanna save the world but I don’t wanna go broke doing it. Actually, I don’t wanna save the world. I save this all time. I don’t wanna save the world. I wanna save the wild. I’m a Colorado mountain boy, I want the wild, it’s to remain wild.

Abby Hopper: Yeah, yeah, I like that. I never heard it said that way. I don’t want to say the world I want to say the wild. Well, it’s interesting because I worked in nonprofits too, like before I went to law school. I worked in domestic violence shelter and it’s super important work and when you’re not compensated in a way that’s like, you can sustain a family. It really starts to like, it starts to mess with my head. Like, what is my value? Like, what am I, what is my worth? And, you know, people that are doing things that I don’t value are making so much more money than I am and therefore can have more freedom in terms of supporting themselves than I could. And so, um, like figuring out that, like, like how do both do work that really matters and be able to, you know, like kids in college, right? Like, that’s real.

Aaron Nichols: Yeah, what’s that trendy Japanese word where you draw all the Venn diagrams of the Ichigai?

Abby Hopper: Oh, I don’t even know that word.

Aaron Nichols: Oh, okay, yeah. It’s like the intersection of all the things you love.

Abby Hopper: I like that. I have a different Japanese word. Except, I can’t remember it, so it’s not that interesting. But do you know Jesse is is there you like oh yeah?

Aaron Nichols: Yeah, I’ve seen some of this stuff.

Abby Hopper: He’s married to the founder of spanks right? Yeah, I’m like we So she you know, one of his eight million companies is big-ass calendar Which I bought because I needed a big-ass calendar And his theory is like you pick your it’s Magoshi or something like this like you’re big thing of the year. The big thing you’re gonna accomplish...

Aaron Nichols: I know I know this. Yeah, it’s oh man. I used to have a fitness plan based on it. I can’t yeah. I’ll remember in a second.

Abby Hopper: You will. You will. You’re so gay. It’s in misogy.

Aaron Nichols: Yes. There we go.

Abby Hopper: So you pick your thing. Yeah. And then that’s what set like that’s what centers your year or your friends and then you kind of do around it. Anyway, that’s my contribution you should have the Japanese word.

Aaron Nichols: Nice. All right, get a remember. Yeah. Well, I’m glad you found your people here.

Abby Hopper: Thank you. That makes me really happy. I mean, at the end of the day, right? It’s the people that were around that bring us joy.

Aaron Nichols: Yes. Yeah, I mean, yeah. And thank you for commenting on that. I am very happy right now. And I’ve been very intentional about filtering the right people into my life. and just got married, and I’m just in a good time.

Abby Hopper: Congratulations.

Aaron Nichols: Thank you.

Abby Hopper: When did you get married?

Aaron Nichols: Saturday.

Abby Hopper: What?

Aaron Nichols: Yeah, my fiance and I did a private ceremony in Rocky Mountain National Park.

Abby Hopper: Oh my god, no, what are you playing with your buddy rank?

Aaron Nichols: It’s been on there for like two days.

Abby Hopper: Shins, are you going on a honeymoon?

Aaron Nichols: Eventually we will. We did nothing but travel last year since we met. So we’ll yeah, we’re we’re nesting right now.

Abby Hopper: That is awesome. Well, I’m so excited for you. I love love.

Aaron Nichols: Yeah, me too. Yeah, I think like you it’s clear that you’ve facilitated that love and community in the culture that you’ve created and in the industry as a whole, which is amazing. And I’m curious like what do we do now that you’re gone? How do we can send? How do we continue to facilitate that community?

Abby Hopper: Oh my gosh. Well, first of all, it’s way bigger than one person. So you’ll, you’ll be fine. We’ll be totally fine.

Aaron Nichols: But, um, I know I will. I’m worried about all the data driven nerds, Abby.

Abby Hopper: What I think, you know, I think, like, go back to what you said about sort of professionalism, right? Like we’re professionals. So we shouldn’t be talking about you got married or I got married. or we shouldn’t be talking about are we happy or not? We should be talking about how much did we sell? What’s the bottom line who are political enemies and how do we fight them, right? Like, I don’t believe that that’s the most efficient and effective way for us to get our work done. Like, I believe in my soul that in order to be highly effective and deeply impactful, like, we need to be connected to the people around us. And so that is a theory of leadership, you know, doesn’t belong to anyone person. But I think that’s the way that we keep that connection and that energy in what we’re doing is by really like having covered, apparently just conversations with each other about what’s going on.

Aaron Nichols: Yeah, and I think I’d like to hear you talk about advice for new people as well. And I think to expand on that a little bit, I think the solar industry can be intimidating as someone who’s only been here for two and a half years. Like everyone who’s been in here longer than five years is like best friends and godparents to each other’s children and they show up to the conferences and they do a Viking handshake and they’re like brother and forged in the fires of war. So like how do you recommend like what advice do you have for people like me who are just finding their footing here and just getting into careers?

Abby Hopper: Yeah. Yeah, so when I got here nine years ago, I was brand new to the solar industry, right? And I found it. I’ve worked in other industries and law firms and energy sources, energy technologies, but I’d never been anywhere where everyone introduces themselves and then says, how long they’ve been in the industry, right? It’s true. Hi, I’m Aaron. I’ve been here for two and a half years. Him. I’ve been here for nine years, right? like it sort of sounds like AA, like hi, I’m here, I’m up in here, whatever, here, um so I felt that same way too.

Like I was I was because what I found was not only did I did just one have to figure out who everybody is, but then you have to do the next level of understanding of who people used to work with and where all of these other like embedded networks are especially like and for my world and the political world, like understanding that is critical. So I think my advice to people that are just coming into our industry is first of all, welcome. We’re really glad you’re here. And saying that to people who are here, I mean, imagine like walking into a room, walking into a conference, walking into a deal and just saying, hi, I’m so glad you’re here.

Aaron Nichols: So nice to meet you. Yeah. It totally changes the entire conversation.

Abby Hopper: Yeah. But I think finding your people really matters and so whether it is like mountain, man of Colorado or solar sisters or blacks and energy, like it is so important to find community. And that community can be defined in so many different ways. And that’s like, you know, I did not come into this work thinking I was going to spend this much time at trade shows. I’m an attorney. I know how to litigate. I didn’t really know what trade shows were before I got here. But obviously I spent a lot of time at trade shows. And one of the things I noticed immediately was that you walk into this huge trade show, and it’s like, I don’t know anyone. Nobody looks like me. I feel completely overwhelmed and isolated. and I was the CEO and the owner of the event. And I was like, God, I’m so proud, this is rough. And so we have really tried to create different pathways through our events where people can find community. And if it’s like, here’s the storage pathway and here’s the technical pathway and here’s the geographic pathway. So it’s not just like how we identify as humans, but sort of what is our business interest or what is our market segment or our geography. But that’s really what I would say to people coming into the industry as sort of find, find people with him you share some values.

The last thing I’ll say on that, that was a very strong opinions about networking, shocking. And I really, like, I sort of have a rule that if someone’s trying to talk to me about solar and storage after about eight o’clock at night, they’re dead to me, right? Like, you not want to be, you know, listening to a band at an event at RE Plus. Yeah. And some of the ones that talk to me about either their latest technology or whatever.

Aaron Nichols: You’re like, tell me something like, are you into model trains?

Abby Hopper: Tell me something interesting. Seriously. Tell me about breeding corgis. I don’t care. Tell me something.

Aaron Nichols: Yes. Yes. Right. Yeah. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. You and I would get along just fine at a like 8.30 p.m. at a happy hour, but holy cow, authentic networking. That’s my strong advice. Right. Yeah, rather than hello, how can I use you today? That’s what an old friend of mine used to say about networking.

Abby Hopper: That’s really funny. It’s so true. It’s so transparent. Everyone knows that’s what you’re doing. Yeah. I always joke about that. We should just like, we should actually say what we mean.

Aaron Nichols: Yeah. And you know, when we’re not recording, I’ll tell you some of the jokes I’ve thought about like at singles events.

Abby Hopper: Oh my god, I would love to know. Well, I also, I also feel like there should be some way to be like, you know what? I’ve assessed and you’re of no use to me. So let’s just call it now, right? Like, like, can we dispense with the chat for the next 10 minutes? Well, I figure out how to exit this conversation.

Aaron Nichols: I have a good story for you when we finish recording. But I would be remiss as we’re winding this down here if I didn’t ask you what comes next for you. Obviously, you spent nine years in this role. You’ve seen such an evolution of the solar industry. I mean, I think the Solar Energy Industries Association is probably way bigger than it was. I’m only here two and a half years, so I have no idea. But you’ve seen so much change. So what what happens next?

Abby Hopper: For me or for the industry?

Aaron Nichols: For you?

Abby Hopper: Thank you for asking. Yeah, the organizations tripled in size, the budget tripled in size, like it’s a whole different game just in my company. I too just got married, although I think I have three months on you. So congratulations.

Aaron Nichols: Yeah. Thank you.

Abby Hopper: I plan I plan to spend time with the with the man that I’m wildly in love with. I mean, that obviously, like, you know, having spent so much time on the road for the last nine years, I haven’t known them for nine years, but it feels really different. Like, I’m not, we got home right after New Year’s and we’re not traveling for six weeks. I’m not traveling for six weeks and I don’t know. I don’t know the last time I was home for six weeks in a row. Like I honestly don’t know what, probably during COVID, like not even trying to be funny, probably during COVID.

So it feels different to be home. Like I really, I have so much energy and so much creativity and so much passion. And I feel very strongly about how the world is evolving. I don’t love it, I really don’t love it. And so I’m trying to figure out like how to use my passion for this energy transition, my deep belief in humanity and like the fact that all people should have human rights and be safe and loved. And my, like, I just love creating and building and writing and talking. And like so, I don’t know exactly what that looks like in terms of like, what job do you have Abby? I don’t know. But that’s what’s guiding this next period of like figuring it out right so I’m giving myself a couple months off to chill and rest like nine years of sleep deprivation to catch up on and then I’m gonna like feel see see how the world needs me next you know if I’m open to all good ideas anyone who has a good idea should share it with me

Aaron Nichols: I mean I think I think it’s far be it from me to give you advice, but you’re on a good track just coming from someone who spent four and a half years out of the country by myself like bag of bonding in various ways in my 20s. Like there’s nothing like, I don’t know, you can call it a micro retirement or just time to just actually figure out what comes next.

Abby Hopper: Yeah, I feel like it’s a combination of personal and professional, like, oh my God, I said that 12 times, like that’s sort of how, like because they’re the same, right? They’re the same. We’re one person. Like my mom passed away two years ago on Saturday. And so my mom passed away, my kids were all the way at school. Like it was the, it really marked the end of Abby being the primary caretaker. Right? The primary caretaker to at least one human since my daughter was born in 2002. So 2002 to 2024, that was my primary identity. That not ended, right? My kids don’t need me in that same way and my mom had passed on and then And so this is another chapter that’s closing, like, so it feels like over the last two years, like, personally, I’m not through so much change. And so, yeah, I’m not exactly sure what’s going to, like, come out of your other side. But I had to, I totally burst into tears this morning about all of this change and, um, but reminded myself that like, in order for new growth to happen, like, we’ve got to sort of close the door on what this is. So I’m excited to see where that new growth takes me and to give it a little time to germinate.

Aaron Nichols: That is so beautiful. Have you ever have you ever read Cheryl Straits tiny beautiful things?

Abby Hopper: No, but I feel like someone gave it to me over the weekend. I was looking around.

Aaron Nichols: I’m going to give you one of her books over the weekend. It probably was not, it’s true that it is. I’m going to look and I’ll email you after this, but I’m going to write it down nonetheless. I talked about it on my first date with my wife and I just bought her a copy for Christmas and if someone just gave that to you, that’s incredible because it’s one of the best books on transitions. it’s just a collection of Cheryl Strade’s writing when she was writing an advice column for the rompest, and it’s the most beautiful emotional thing I’ve ever read. It’s incredible.

Abby Hopper: Wow. No wonder you got a second date. I’m literate.

Aaron Nichols: Well, you’re literate and fairly compassionate. it. Like I’ll take you a long way in this world. I spent some time dating. I’ll take you a long way. Yeah. I mean, that was fun for a while before I decided to settle down. But yeah, it was nice how low the bar was when I was out in the dating world. Anyway, so to close things out.

Abby Hopper: And I tell you about like when I was single, I was like a hundred percent convinced we should have like singles parties at R.A. Plus, I was like seriously, we should definitely have singles parties at R.A. Plus, but we should have some sort of way to check because you know, everyone’s single at a conference. So like, people, why is there then made a sign of that was a terrible idea? yeah, yeah, probably.

Aaron Nichols: Well, Abby, I ask everyone who comes on this show, the same closing question. And it has to do with the fact that I spoke at my grandma’s 80th birthday party last year. And as I was sitting there afterwards, just thinking about everything I’d said and what that meant and how that was connected to what I do. I realized that 80 years means my grandma was born into a world where we’ll be called renewable energy didn’t even exist. Like she was born in 1945. Electrification had just come to Missouri where she was born in 1933. So she was born very shortly after that. PV wasn’t invented until 1954 and then it was super inefficient. Like Jimmy Carter didn’t put panels on the White House till 79. Those were water heating. Windmills didn’t even generate electricity when she was born. They just pumped water. And so everything that’s happened, that whole story arc of the invention of renewable energy and then it becoming the cheapest source of power and the invention of like long-term storage, all of that has happened within her lifetime. So if you’re going to play us out with just a wild moonshot prediction. What do you think clean energy looks like 80 years from right now?

Abby Hopper: 21.06. Nice. I have no way to verify that but I’m going to assume you’re correct.

Aaron Nichols: Yeah, you’re a literate and I can add.

Abby Hopper: One of the things that I think is going to happen, and I don’t think it’s going to take 80 years, is that like some of the issues around viewshad that are, you know, people bring up with solar, with termites, with offshore wind are just going to go away because I think about my children who are like 18, 21, and 23, they don’t notice solar panels, they don’t notice wind turbines, just like I don’t notice transmission lines when I’m going down the interstate, right? like I don’t notice the distribution lines that are outside of my house that there’s so much a part of our world that our eyes don’t see them anymore. And so I think there’s going to be like and then not that it’s in future, all of those like objections around viewshide will go away because we will just have change. It’s a cultural change.

But I think that But distributed energy is going to be like one of the most important ways that we democratize energy and energy access. Like I think that will have a hugely important impact on people. And people in this country, people on reservations, like people who are experiencing energy poverty and certainly in other countries and other continents. And then I think we are going to have to be dealing with climate refugees. We already are and it’s only going to continue. And so I think kind of the urgency of the need for the kinds of technologies that we work in will be increasing. I mean, we can’t wait until 2106. For that to happen, we’ll all have burned up by then. But I do think, so I feel like there’ll be some, honestly, I think, I’ve never thought about it in 80 years, but I think there will be some sort of equilibrium because we will have had to address so many of these issues. And so what, you know, you said there wasn’t alternative energy. What will be obviously the majority of energy will just be the norm. Hopefully we can move on to like, how do we address our food system so that people are not hungry?

Aaron Nichols: Yeah. I love the vision of renewal energy as no big deal. And there’s so many social causes that I hope like are the same that we just don’t even talk about them anymore because they’re just so integrated.

Abby Hopper: Yeah. Yeah, like people should have human rights. All people. Exactly. And be able to live with dignity and humanity and love home they love and be where they are. Yeah. Yeah. Very strongly about that.

Aaron Nichols: Well Abby, where do you want to be found going forward if you do want to be found online?

Abby Hopper: Oh my Dear friend, I definitely want to be found. I need all the advice people have to give me. So I’m not leaving LinkedIn. I’ll still be there. I still plan to post. It’ll be interesting to see how that evolves, but absolutely I’ll have a little bit more time even to post. And soon I’ll be watching my own website once I figure out how to make a website.

Aaron Nichols: Well, Abby, it’s been a pleasure and everyone listening that’s been this week in solar Thank you

Janette is a former minister and mindfulness coach who transitioned into renewable energy to help solve the issue of solar waste.

Listen to this episode on:

* YouTube

* Apple Podcasts

* Spotify

Connect with Janette on LinkedIn here.

If you feel you’ve gotten some value out of this week in solar, go ahead and give us your email so we can continue sending you more solar news!

Expect to learn:

* Why it currently costs $15–$16 to recycle a panel versus $1 to landfill it (and why that gap is closing fast).

* The difference between metal stripping (solar recycling level 1) and the advanced separation of glass, copper, and silver (advanced solar recycling).

* How the solar industry ended up being the first industry in history to impose recycling standards on itself (before being forced by legislation).

Quotes from the episode:

“Clean energy has to take care of their circularity and the end-of-life panels. We can’t be in clean energy and add to a problem on the other side of it.” — Dr. Janette Freeman

“What I would hope is that within 80 years, human beings evolve enough to handle this kind of technology... that will determine if we actually still have a planet that’s inhabitable and we can live on.” — Dr. Janette Freeman

Transcript

Aaron Nichols: Janette, why aren’t more solar panels recycled when they reach the end of their useful lives?

Dr. Janette Freeman: Basically, the main reason is cost, because it costs to recycle solar panels. And sometimes that is a sticker shock for a lot of customers and companies. Because we’re a new industry, and because waste in solar panels is new, people don’t know about it. The infrastructure for recycling centers is just building because it’s not a typical recycling product to recycle. In 10 years that won’t be the case. There will be more of an infrastructure, more education, and more companies that are budgeting in advance for the cost of recycling.

Aaron Nichols: So at the moment, it’s more of a problem of incentives than anything else. We just haven’t lined up the incentives correctly for everyone to make it happen.

Dr. Janette Freeman: I think you could say it like that. Everyone always takes action based on certain incentives, right? But I don’t like that to sound like, unless there’s all kinds of handouts and financial incentives, then it’s not gonna happen. There’s a lot of incentives. One major incentive is a company’s social governance. It’s part of their social influence. They don’t want their company to be known as filling the local landfills with the solar panels that are providing power in the communities.

Aaron Nichols: And we’ll get to that. I know that you mentioned that social norms are a very powerful motivator when people are talking about a company and what they’re doing or what they’re not doing. We’ll get to that down the line, but for anyone who’s listening, welcome back to This Week in Solar. I am your host, Aaron Nichols, the research and policy specialist here at Exact Solar in Newtown, Pennsylvania. And my guest today is Dr. Janette Freeman. I know you’re at Fabtech—I forgot your title. Would you please introduce yourself and talk about your day-to-day life at Fabtech?

Dr. Janette Freeman: Thanks so much for having me on, Aaron. So my name is Janette Freeman and my title is VP of Business Development. To give a little bit of history, Fabtech’s been around over 25 years. We started out in the refurbishing of electronics, from cell phones to all kinds of different things. Then we got into solar panels about 15 years ago. About six years ago, they brought me on. Fabtech is a family company, basically. My brother-in-law and sister started it. They had been in the salvage market, not really in renewable energy. They brought me on to really build relationships in the renewable industry space so that we could get those used solar panels off solar farms in large quantities. It didn’t take long for me to realize that reuse is only one part of the puzzle; recycling is a very key part of that circularity.

Aaron Nichols: And what were you doing before? I know there was a quick sidebar there. What did your brother-in-law and sister pull you away from?

Dr. Janette Freeman: For about 20 years before that, I was actually a minister in churches. I founded and served new thought ministries. I also did coaching on the side and had written three books. My work was working with people with their personal mindset and deeper spirituality. I was an expert in mindfulness and meditation training. After I had gotten out of nonprofits, I was teaching in psychiatry with mindfulness and behavioral management. I was craving something brand new. I just said to my sister one day, I wonder if there’s anywhere where my particular skill set will meet your growing needs. It’s been great fun; it fills my need to do something with purpose that makes the planet a better place.

Aaron Nichols: That is so awesome. I certainly can relate to that. I ended up in this business because I was surfing and trying to figure out what to do with the rest of my life in Ecuador. I had just done some yoga teacher trainings and realized that if I spent the rest of my life deploying clean energy, I could look back and feel like that was a good use of a life. Going back to that purpose angle—even though solar has this green image, a lot of panels end up getting taken down and thrown away far before they need to be replaced. Can you elaborate on why that is?

Dr. Janette Freeman: There’s actually a lot of reasons and they’re usually good reasons. In larger commercial rooftop projects, they might come off early because of a roofing issue, a transference of ownership, or technology increases. 10 years ago we had 250-watt panels; now you can put a 650-watt panel on. Those are typically the reasons: decommissioning, repowering, or ownership change. The other reason is breakage from weather incidents.

Aaron Nichols: So it’s not always motivated specifically by business reasons. It’s no one’s fault.

Dr. Janette Freeman: Right. There’s usually a good reason.

Aaron Nichols: So what do we do about it? Where do you guys come in?

Dr. Janette Freeman: Reuse is always a priority if panels can be reused. That’s first choice before recycling and definitely before landfill. Reuse comes in when panels can be resold. There’s a big difference; 250-watt panels still work, but we can’t really do anything with them because we can’t resell those. Nowadays, it’s really over 320 watts where there is resale value to cover the labor, testing, and marketing costs.

The second choice is recycling. Solar panels are sturdy pieces of equipment made with many different materials that have to be recycled separately. The aluminum frame and junction box come off, then the glass is separated, and then the solar cell is processed to pull out precious materials like silver, copper, and lead. Some metals recyclers just strip the frame and landfill the rest—that is no solution. We want “real recycling” where the entire panel gets recycled. Recycling prices have already come down since I started five years ago. As the price of silver goes up and demand increases, I can see a time where recycling costs very little or is even free. Right now, landfilling might cost $1 or $2 versus $15 or $16 for recycling. That’s why 90% of panels are still being landfilled, which is entirely too high. However, we’re seeing prohibitions. Texas and California have legislation banning solar panels from landfills.

Aaron Nichols: That’s really good news. I got into this industry because of the amount of trash I saw while traveling through the developing world. You mentioned social pressure is something you believe will change this. How can we ethically and in a friendly way put the pressure on?

Dr. Janette Freeman: Social influence has always been a factor—you don’t want people to see you throwing a plastic bottle in the garbage when there is a recycling bin. In the last five years, I’ve noticed a huge difference in companies making it a policy to recycle. Part of that is driven by the consumer in communities where solar farms are being installed. People don’t want those panels in their local landfills. The industry is actually pushing the industry to do things the right way, which is pretty admirable.

Aaron Nichols: It is. I live very close to Kate Collardson, who started solarrecycle.org. She mentioned that we’re the first industry in history to impose recycling upon ourselves before anyone made us do it.

Dr. Janette Freeman: Yeah, I was just going to mention that. We were talking at the RE+ conference in September and you were saying that. I was like, “Yay us!”

Aaron Nichols: Well, Janette, I ask everyone who comes on this show the same closing question. My grandma turned 80 last year. 80 years means she was born in 1945—a world where clean energy didn’t exist. PV wasn’t invented until 1954. Within her lifetime, solar went from a niche technology to the cheapest power source in the world. What do you think clean energy looks like 80 years from now?

Dr. Janette Freeman: I’m going to say a little twist to this. Our technology is increasing exponentially now with AI. What I would hope is that within 80 years, human beings evolve enough to handle this kind of technology. What we see in the world will be directly related to if human beings evolve to think more of the common good versus selfish needs. That will determine if we still have a planet that’s inhabitable. Of course, clean energy then will be the normal way that we have energy.

Aaron Nichols: That’s a beautiful vision. Janette, where do you like people to find you online?

Dr. Janette Freeman: LinkedIn is the best place—Janette Freeman. And of course, my website is fabtech.net.

Aaron Nichols: Great. Thank you so much for coming on today. That’s been This Week in Solar.

Dr. Janette Freeman: Thank you so much. Bye bye.

Back in August, the EPA pulled funding for Solar for All, which we spoke about in a previous video.

The grants would have helped more than 900,000 households save hundreds or even thousands of dollars a year by installing rooftop solar on low-income homes and investing in community projects.

Last week, several groups, including Solar United Neighbors and cities all across the country, filed lawsuits against the EPA for canceling the project and attempting to claw back the funds.

Why it Matters:

It’s easy to get caught up in the numbers with stories like this. We hear “900,000 households” and think “wow, that’s a lot of people,” without ever realizing what that actually means for the towns and families impacted by this.

I wanted to take today’s episode to zoom in on the human impact of cancelling Solar for All.

Earlier this week, on October 11th, The New York Times published a piece featuring the story of Jennifer McCoy, a single mother of three from Georgia. I’ve linked the article below in today’s email.

Ms. McCoy works two jobs, as a delivery driver for Walmart and a manager at a tire store. She uses food stamps for groceries, and often struggles to pay her bills. Electricity has become one of her biggest monthly costs, because Georgia residents have seen electricity prices rise by 33% in the last two years.

In August, Ms. McCoy’s electricity bill was $548.

It’s situations like this that Solar for All was designed for. It was federal money earmarked to help our most vulnerable citizens save money on electricity. Imagine what a single mother of three could have done with an extra $500/month freed up.

Of the $156 million that was awarded to the state of Georgia in Solar for All funding, the Georgia Bright Communities Coalition planned to use $12 million to give solar energy systems to more than 900 low-income households like Ms. McCoy’s, so they could put the money they were forced to spend on out-of-control electricity bills to better use.

Georgia Bright held a randomized drawing to find homeowners interested in putting solar on their roofs and received more than 500 entries within 24 hours of opening it up on their site. The McCoy family applied.

Three days later, when the EPA pulled funding, Georgia Bright was forced to pause the program, leaving hundreds of households like the McCoy’s feeling like the rug had been pulled out from under them.

Later that day, in a social media video, EPA Administrator Lee Zeldin called the program a “boondoggle” from the Biden Administration, which would waste “billions of green slush fund dollars.”

Among the organizations now suing the EPA for cancelling Solar for All is Harris County, Texas, which had planned to use the money to cut power bills and keep vulnerable neighborhoods safe during outages and extreme weather events.

The county would have deployed rooftop solar and battery systems for tens of thousands of low-income households and invested in “community energy hubs” at rec centers, colleges, and administrative buildings.

Those hubs were designed to double as safe havens during Gulf Coast heat waves and storms, providing backup power for cooling, medical devices, and communications when outages hit.

Harris County, Texas, sued the EPA to restore roughly $400 million in grants that the county and partner cities had lined up to cut power costs for low-income residents and to use solar energy to make community facilities less susceptible to outages.

Solar for All wasn’t some frivolous climate initiative. It was built to lower bills for people who routinely choose between groceries, gas, and their electricity payment.

The program had also enjoyed bipartisan interest and support. States that went red in the 2024 election, like Georgia, Alabama, and South Carolina, applied for or received awards. Several conservatives publicly acknowledged the appeal of giving working families access to rooftop solar and batteries they could never otherwise afford.

Solar for All was designed so that our most vulnerable citizens could keep more of their desperately needed money. It was intended to stop single moms from having to choose between food and electricity.

As this story unfolds over the next few months, and cities all over the country fight for the grants they were promised, please don’t forget the human cost in all the numbers.

Sources:

Solar for All Program Cuts Hit G.O.P and Democrat Voters Alike - The New York Times

Harris County sues Trump EPA to restore $400M in Texas solar energy funding

POLITICO Pro | Article | Fallout from EPA’s Solar for All termination

Groups sue EPA over canceled $7 billion solar program intended to help poorer Americans

Here’s her LinkedIn

Expect to Learn:

* How the loss of the federal tax credit is pushing solar financiers toward simpler, more transparent loans for homeowners.

* How state incentives in places like New Jersey and Colorado are driving adoption, even without federal support.

* What makes Clean Energy Credit Union different from commercial lenders.

Quotes from the Episode:

“Solar is still extremely affordable. Compared to utilities, it’s going to win every time.”

– Nicole Burford

“Every dollar deposited in Clean Energy Credit Union directly funds another member’s clean energy project.”

– Nicole Burford

You can listen to this episode here, or on:

* YouTube

* Apple Podcasts

* Spotify

Transcript:

Aaron Nichols:Hello everyone and welcome back to This Week in Solar. I'm your host Aaron Nichols, the Research and Policy Specialist here at Exact Solar in Newtown, Pennsylvania.

And today, we have someone from a world that we haven't spoken to yet—financing for clean energy. It's obviously a very important piece, and it's something that I know very little about, so I'm excited for today's conversation.

Nicole Burford, if you'd like to introduce yourself.

Nicole Burford:Absolutely. I'm Nicole Burford, VP of Market Development and Sustainability at Clean Energy Credit Union. We're a credit union solely focused on clean energy financing.

Aaron Nichols:Okay, and now that the IRA has effectively been repealed, there’s a lot of people running in different directions, wondering what the future of clean energy looks like. From your perspective, what are the problems you’ve been dealing with since early July?

Nicole Burford:Absolutely. Well, it was a quick change for the industry. Solar has a long tail—it usually takes six months from financing to completing a loan, from pre-approval through installation and PTO.

So, when we found out what was really going to happen, we only had about five months. That made it a challenge to quickly get new products to market.

Since July, we’ve been evaluating what financing looks like without a tax credit. Up until now, all of our products have been designed to accommodate the tax credit—30% balloon loans, 15-month amortization, products that floated that 30% until the customer got their tax credit.

Clean Energy Credit Union started lending in 2018, and all that time the tax credit was always there. So now, we’re asking: what does financing look like without it?

One opportunity is simplification. Balloon loans and combo loans are hard to explain. Now, we can move to more straightforward installment loans—like a mortgage—what consumers already know and are comfortable with. It’s more transparent and easier to understand.

Aaron Nichols:Okay, and for anyone listening who doesn’t know about balloon or combo loans—correct me if I’m wrong—the idea was you’d have an 18-month period where 30% of the loan was floated until you claimed the tax credit, then you’d pay that off, and the rest would stretch over 12, 15, or 20 years?

Nicole Burford:Exactly. The installment portion was the other 70%. We were supporting customers during that period while they applied for and received their tax credit.

Aaron Nichols:So other than simplicity, what benefits do you see coming for homeowners or project owners?

Nicole Burford:At the end of the day, solar is still extremely affordable compared to utilities. Financing comes with fixed rates—you know your payment for the next 20 years. Utilities, on the other hand, are unpredictable.

Projections show rate increases across the country, especially in PJM’s region. So solar is still the most affordable option. Even without the federal tax credit, state-level incentives are strong—like here in Colorado, or in New Jersey. Hopefully, utilities themselves will also step in.

Aaron Nichols:Yeah, I’m presenting tomorrow on how New Jersey’s state incentives helped it outpace Pennsylvania. New Jersey keeps updating its requirements, while Pennsylvania hasn’t updated theirs since 2005.

So, how do you see this impacting installers?

Nicole Burford:It’s an opportunity for installers to educate homeowners on costs—hard vs. soft costs—and on payback over time. Financing has been complicated, but simpler loans will help.

As a member-owned organization, we’ve always focused on transparency, but people still got caught off guard when their 18-month balloon period ended. Simpler, straightforward installment loans will eliminate that confusion.

Aaron Nichols:Talk to me about what makes Clean Energy Credit Union unique, because I love your story. I even recommended you to my parents when they considered financing their system.

Nicole Burford:Absolutely—my favorite topic. Clean Energy Credit Union got its charter in 2017, started lending in 2018, and was built to fill a gap in the marketplace. Before us, homeowners faced liens on their houses or high-interest loans.

Our vision is a world where everyone can participate in the clean energy movement. Inclusivity is core—we want everyone to have access to affordable capital.

As a cooperative, we’re member-owned. Our field of membership is mission-based: you join because you want to advance clean energy. We work with 22 organizations like ASES and Solar United Neighbors.

Every dollar deposited into the credit union directly funds another member’s clean energy project. On our website, every photo is from real members. We even send them t-shirts in exchange for their photos!

Aaron Nichols:So you’re investing people’s capital in clean energy rather than in the stock market?

Nicole Burford:Exactly. Traditional banks invest deposits in whatever will make them money. We invest deposits into members’ solar, efficiency, and green home projects.

Aaron Nichols:That’s so amazing. And you finance DIY solar projects too, which most lenders don’t.

Nicole Burford:Right. In addition to solar loans, we offer loans for green home improvements—things like energy efficiency upgrades. We’re always looking to expand as new technologies emerge.

Aaron Nichols:Yeah, it’s an incredible time for innovation. I’ve been describing this moment as the “Empire Strikes Back” of our industry—we just had our hand cut off, but we’ll move forward stronger.

Nicole Burford:I like that. The good thing is, adoption is higher than ever. If this had happened 10 years ago, it would’ve been very different. Today, most people know someone with solar, which will help lessen the impact of losing the tax credit.

Aaron Nichols:Exactly. It’s crazy to think we’re still digging up and burning stuff for power when we have better technologies.

Nicole Burford:Yeah, dead dinosaurs! We know sustainable methods exist, and the sun isn’t going anywhere. Harnessing it at low cost and high efficiency is the future.

Aaron Nichols:Well, to bring it home, I’ll ask you my moonshot question. At my grandma’s 80th birthday, I realized she was born in 1945—into a world without renewable energy. Within her lifetime, we went from no PV cells to affordable solar.

So, 80 years from now, what does clean energy look like?

Nicole Burford:I hope in 80 years clean energy is just energy—that the grid is entirely renewable. Solar, wind, and technologies we haven’t even discovered yet.

I hope it’s not politicized, that storage and efficiency solutions are widespread, and that it’s simply the norm. I won’t be here in 80 years, but hopefully in 50, we’ll see those implications as we move toward a truly clean grid.

Aaron Nichols:That’s a beautiful vision. Where can people find you if they want to connect?

Nicole Burford:You can find me on LinkedIn under my name, Nicole Burford, or at the Clean Energy Credit Union website. We’re always looking to expand partnerships and spread our message.

Aaron Nichols:Awesome. And for anyone listening, don’t forget to subscribe to our YouTube channel or Substack. We send out weekly emails with these episodes and a Friday news roundup.

Thanks again, Nicole.

Jim is a former Pennsylvania state representative and now serves as the Executive Director of the Conservative Energy Network.

Justin is a grassroots organizer who started installing solar on rooftops and is now the Director of Programs and Operations of the Conservative Energy Network in Pennsylvania.

You can find them on LinkedIn here:

* Jim Gregory

* Justin Mason

In this interview, they dig into the ways clean energy helps uphold conservative values (property rights, jobs, national security) and how CEN helped save net metering in Pennsylvania.

Expect to Learn:

* How to talk to more conservative-leaning people about solar energy.

* How a last-minute amendment in Harrisburg could have ended net metering in Pennsylvania forever, and how CEN caught it and stopped it from moving.

* The four “pillars” that resonate in conservative communities (developers can use them to get their projects across the finish line).

Quotes from the Episode:

“Meet people where they are. Don’t preach—show up early, listen, and be a good neighbor.”– Justin Mason

“By putting solar on our roof, we just purchased our electricity seven years out.”– Jim Gregory

You can listen to this episode here, or on:

* YouTube

* Apple Podcasts

* Spotify

Transcript:

Aaron Nichols: Hello everyone and welcome back to This Week in Solar. I’m your host, Aaron Nichols, the Research and Policy Specialist here at Exact Solar in Newtown, Pennsylvania, and we’ve got a very special one for you today. These are some guys who reached out to me on LinkedIn that I’m very excited to talk to. I think they bring a perspective that is much needed in the solar industry, and with that I will go ahead and let you guys introduce yourselves. So Jim, why don’t we start with you?

Jim Gregory: Aaron, thank you. And I’m so happy that you felt confident enough in us from our very first introduction that you could see that we brought something to the table of value. Because in this space, it is hard to find folks that talk about conservative values and solar in a genuine way and sincere and with passion. I think that will hopefully come through with our conversation. I come at this as a former state representative, Pennsylvania. I served six years in the House, just came out last year and been with the organization since last December, and I’ve learned so much thanks to my colleague Justin Mason. He’s a wealth of energy information. He’s amazing—you’ll get that sense as he talks through this segment with you. But the opportunity to let people know that as a conservative, I had one of the most conservative voting records in the House. Years I had 88 to 90% conservative voting record. But I was willing to work with folks on the other side to get things done, and I have this job because of that job. And the willingness to show that I wanted to get stuff done and work with other people is why I’m here with you today. That’s probably the best way to describe me and I’ll send it over to Justin.

Aaron Nichols: Perfect. And just as a brief summary, let’s just give a high level overview of what that job is and what the Conservative Energy Network is as well. And either you or Justin can go for that.

Jim Gregory: Sure. And I should say my title is the Executive Director. And we are a third-party advocate and affirmation arm of solar and renewable energy. But we also stand up for all forms of energy. We believe that we are here to help those other forms—the below the line, below the ground forms—sustain themselves longer. We need them. We need them to produce renewable energy, in fact, and Justin could talk about that as well. Without fossil fuels, we can’t produce solar panels. So, you know, we all have to exist together. What we exist to do is to educate grassroots and grasstops folks at the legislative level all the way down to the township supervisor level, and then in the neighborhood level what is truly happening. With the emotional support that the folks who are against it put out there, it’s so much emotion and we present the facts and we do that in a number of ways. And so I think that answers that part of the question and I’ll turn it over to Justin.

Justin Mason: Thank you, sir. Aaron, thank you for having us on the show. Stoked to be here and stoked to participate in this discussion and stoked to be joined by Jim Gregory. We both love our work and we love the opportunities in which we get to perform clarification to disinformation. My name is Justin Mason. I reside in Western Pennsylvania. I got into solar by way of doing the labor. I was pursuing a master’s degree at Chatham University in sustainability. I happened to be a Republican. It’s an interesting mix, truly. Well, I got into putting panels on roofs and in fields and wrenching, often finding times in the garage with a wrench in my hand. But beyond that, I got the opportunity to apply my inclinations towards energy. I had early inspirations from a young age seeing the Drake’s Well here in Western Pennsylvania as a forefront contributor to the industrialization of energy, which borne out the world the way we knew it right at this point. So I got into energy through solar. I had inclinations through trying to join gas and oil previously. I was SafeLand SafeGulf certified, landed with CEN—Conservative Energy Network—and their grassroots are the Land and Liberty Coalition in 2020. Did some early work right before COVID hit and then came on in a bit more of a part-time capacity, forging into full-time for the Land and Liberty Coalition and growing my role into the Conservative Energy Network, Pennsylvania. Working with Jim today, we seek to clarify to the disinformation that occurs around the education of renewable energy projects. We have four ethos we stand on: jobs, economics, land rights, and national security. With these four ethos in mind, people like to say GSD—get stuff done. I like to say “go slay dragons,” and Jim empowers me to do so quite literally.

Justin Mason: Yes. Quite literally. We show up into local communities to speak to the concerns. Because rural Pennsylvania is experiencing a rate increase. And with that, there has to be ways for us to address that. And utility-scale solar is one way that is quickly deployable. Eighteen months, and we can have a utility-scale solar project built if all permits and everything are in place, right?

Aaron Nichols: Yeah. And I mean, private landowners and private building owners can also just opt out of crazy rising bills. I mean, that’s one thing that we love at Exact Solar—everything we install is behind the meter. I love your frame there, Justin, of slaying dragons. Personally, I’m very, very into mythology and storytelling and went through a lot of reading of Joseph Campbell and have a mythological understanding of the world myself. And I think as a way to ground this conversation and establish that we are on the same side—because I think that a lot of people will see the headlines I put up in this and they’ll think, oh, conservatives, they don’t actually care about solar. This is all some sort of phony thing. Like, you know, they’re on one side of the aisle, they must have this checklist of beliefs. I would be interested to have the audience hear the story of how we almost lost net metering in Pennsylvania and how the Conservative Energy Network stepped in to help. And I would like to, for anyone who’s listening who’s unfamiliar, net metering is how solar projects pay for themselves. Because an energy project produces energy, there’s a law—sorry, yeah, because a solar energy project produces energy—there’s a law that a utility company must buy that energy at a similar rate to what it would cost them to produce it. And that is what net metering is. And we almost lost that policy in Pennsylvania, and y’all were instrumental in helping keep it alive, so I would love to hear that story.

Jim Gregory: Sure, I can tell part of it and Justin may be able to tell the other part of it. In last session, the Senate put forth a bill that only the Legislature could enact the use of Solar for All dollars that were made available through the federal government for Pennsylvania. I believe that total was about $158 million. They didn’t act on that in the last session. And so early in this current session, the new committee formed—the Energy Committee formed—and Chair Elizabeth Fiedler put out the bill to get this moving early in the Legislature to help enact the use of those dollars here in Pennsylvania. And to our very happy willingness, Justin was actually asked to testify in the very first Energy Committee hearing here in Pennsylvania, and it was on the Solar for All bill because of his experience that you just heard about putting up panels and so forth from the labor standpoint. So, the bill eventually comes out of committee, goes to the House floor, and in caucus there was an amendment added by the Republican caucus, and this amendment seemed fairly innocuous, but it was put forth by Representative Williams—Craig Williams, good man—and when it came time for a vote and the amendment was being discussed, it was being discussed on one side that solar panel owners were getting people this money that they shouldn’t be getting, meaning net metering. I happen to be a solar panel owner on my roof and I’m enjoying the fact that I get money for the energy I produce. I would not have done that had I not joined this organization and learned what I learned about why this is a good idea for my own personal use, so I can tell that story. But in a weird classic Harrisburg story, the Democrat House committee person who is most well-versed on this amendment language was off that day and was not able to be there to vet the language, and it went forward for a vote and was passed with Democrat support. And after that happened we made them aware—to their chagrin, and you know these things happen, okay, we’re not here to claim some great success—we’re just here to again educate. And we educated on the fact that what they actually did was approve an amendment to this bill that would end net metering. There was actually pushback at the time. Now, can’t know—oh, you’re right. And we’re just glad that we were right and that that bill is never going to go anywhere beyond where it is in the House. And as a result, net metering will not see that change here in Pennsylvania. So yeah, we can claim that we are the reason that that happened and brought it to their attention. And the Dems did hear a lot from the environmental groups about “What are you doing?” They had to feel that pain. But unfortunately, experience is the best teacher. It’s OK. And here we are. And that won’t happen again, and we’re glad that we could play a role in that.

Aaron Nichols: Yeah, and we’re very grateful to y’all for catching that. I mean, obviously, as a solar company that sells behind-the-meter systems, net metering is a huge piece of what we present to our potential customers.

Jim Gregory: Mm-hmm. Yeah, that would have ended—I wouldn’t have done it without it. I can tell you that here on my own. Sorry, Justin.

Justin Mason: No, you’re good. That would have ended Jim’s ROI before he even got started. Yeah, absolutely. You know, and many others at that—many others would have been impacted upon that who have current investments out there on these systems to offset their energy usage in an energy stewardship position. Because, sir, you recognize just like we do—investing in solar for your own personal application—accessory usage as is termed inside of township language… it’s energy stewardship.

Aaron Nichols: Yeah, I was going to ask you more about that term when I heard it. I haven’t heard the term “energy stewardship” before. So, thank you for that.

Justin Mason: I don’t know where it comes from. I just started saying it because I recognize the importance of the position in which Pennsylvania plays energetically to the transmission scheme of the PJM and then as well nationally—our contributions—and internationally our contributions on energy. Pennsylvania itself is an energy steward. And Jim and I get to participate in that—and you as well, sir—as you are a wielder of ROI sales. You know, you help, you seriously help to give others the opportunity to be able to own their generation for a period of time in which no other form of energy could do so without owning a wind turbine, a small modular reactor to power your home, or even having a natural gas line outside of your home, like some Pennsylvanians are privileged to have because of the depth of the years in the agrarian world. Yeah, so energy investments are key, and when you make them, you’re an energy steward.

Aaron Nichols: And I think that’s a key point too that ties well into y’all’s beliefs is that when you own a solar energy system, the energy is yours. It’s not you perpetually renting energy from a utility company. It’s you—on your land or your home—owning the output of that system and deciding what you want to do with it.

Jim Gregory: Yeah, those are a lot of things. In addition to that, Aaron—though I recognize that what we did here for our own home actually helped my neighbors because outages here were occurring, and what we do by developing our own energy is we take and put less strain on my neighborhood’s grid by doing what we’re doing, because we’re not pulling energy that is going to their homes.

Aaron Nichols: Yeah, I think that ties really well into the next question, which is: What do you wish more conservatives understood about solar power?

Jim Gregory: Justin, go ahead, I’ll dovetail off of you.

Justin Mason: Sure. The investment opportunity that it brings—not only locally in an economic sense for in-development, because when a solar project comes to your town on a community or utility scale, there’s a lot of different contributors to constituting the construction of that facility. So, one, there’s an economic benefit; two, there’s a personal investment benefit that Representative Gregory is experiencing himself on his own roof at this time and will for years to come. Seven years, I believe, is ROI. Even our Pennsylvania Farm Bureau president, Chris Hoffman, will be experiencing himself as CEN helped President Hoffman of the Pennsylvania Farm Bureau secure a reasonable ROI—it’s two years in. He submitted for a REAP grant (Rural Energy for America Program) grant through Luminous Solar. Some friends of ours out of New Jersey—shout out to Greg Weissman and Stephen Schwartz with Luminous Solar, Stephen Owens. Awesome developers, awesome people to work with. They helped us get Chris Hoffman set up with solar too. So from a conservative standpoint, it’s not only the local economic flourishment and benefit that utility and community-scale solar projects bring, but it’s also that personal investment standpoint opportunity that even Jim can tell you about.

Jim Gregory: Yeah, and Aaron, the significance of having the Pennsylvania Farm Bureau president be a voice of support for why this is important for agriculture and for farmers. Not all farmers have Class 1, 2, or even 3 soils. Some have Class 4 and 5, and the ability for even a legacy farm—which means it’s a hundred years old or older—to sustain itself and continue and they have level 4 or 5 soil. They can’t continue to sustain just on crops. The opportunity to look at their bottom line and realize they can impact it… We’re always telling farmers, diversify, diversify, diversify—put up a chicken coop, do a welding shop, do a bike shop, do a market, do solar. Well, no, no, we don’t want that. We’re always turning around… Yeah, they have to diversify. And the opportunity to push back on those emotional—it’s a safety concern; it leaches; the ground is never going to be the same. The ground is never the same when a township allows for a development—housing development. Once that happens it’s gone. If you allow for solar, the ground is returned to its original quality when it is taken apart, and it has to be taken apart right down to the concrete pads. And so the ability for these farms, these townships, these communities that don’t have a tax base that’s growing—this is one of those ways to make sure that we’re keeping rates and taxes lower.

Aaron Nichols: And there are also responsible ways that you can build it and still steward the land. I mean, I invite any farmers who are interested in that to look up the term agrivoltaics, and specifically look up the Agrivoltaic Learning Center and Jack’s Solar Garden in Colorado, which I’ve luckily been fortunate enough to visit, and there’s different ways you can use solar on cropland and grow around it and graze around it as well, as long as it’s built the right way. There’s so many different options there. And I do want to take a second to hit on ROI and the impact you’ve seen as well, Jim, because I think one of the things that a lot of people who are just getting interested in solar don’t realize is that there is a return on investment. And you’re talking about a seven-year return on investment, but then you’re going to have free power on your home for another 18 to 25 years. So I’d love to hear you elaborate on that impact and how that feels as well.

Jim Gregory: Sure. This is the one thing I have learned since then—how blessed my wife and I are that we are in a position that we could do this project by purchasing our solar panels and not leasing them. It is the best way to do this but it is an outlay, and so God has blessed us with that ability to experience a luxury. And by putting solar on our roof, we just purchased our electricity seven years out. It’s really all we did. We were paying $360 on average per month. The toughest months were over five and six hundred in December, January and February. And our last two bills have been ten dollars. Yeah. And that’s real money. Not everybody can experience that the way we have been able to—I’m just glad that we did. I’m glad that I have—you know, God puts people in my life for a reason in my path and they put Justin in my path and we’re doing what we’re doing because of that part of the plan for us. And so it’s amazing that we are able to do that. I think to your previous question, and I think it dovetails here, is what I wish for. I wish that we didn’t get to this point where we are with misinformation because of the previous oil and gas wells and leases that went out to farmland. So many of them were taken advantage of and they’re just gun shy about wanting to do this because of those experiences. And so we’re trying to overcome those experiences as we speak—as everybody is. I wish we didn’t have to get to this point by that, but stories like mine, stories like Chris Hoffman… when those stories are told, I think we have a chance to overcome those. And as long as we’re dealing with developers who are recognizing the importance of community benefit agreements, the recognition of the importance of decommissioning bonding—doing bonding of over 100%, upwards of 120–125%. That’s real money for developers to put into projects that those communities can feel confident about and push back to those emotional pushbacks that exist—that it’s a safety concern, or “I don’t want to deal with these people because of what they did to me on my oil and gas lease”—that we’re using these stories to overcome those previous difficulties.

Aaron Nichols: Right. That makes a ton of sense. Yeah, I think it’s so important that people can hear from people like them, which is why I love the work y’all are doing. I mean, you know, the last thing a farmer wants is to be lectured by some banker in a suit, who just doesn’t understand what it’s like out there, doesn’t understand the things that they’re going through. And farmers have a lot of limitations on their land use that they also have to deal with. I have a very good friend who runs a farm close to me, and she has been trying to build a community center on her family’s land and she went through four years of nightmares with the county and then eventually was like, you know what, I’m incorporating my land as a church. Now you can’t mess with me. Farmers go through a lot and so it’s very important.

Jim Gregory: Aaron, I served, as I said, in the House for six years and I served two terms on the Ag Committee, so I got to learn a lot about farming. And one of the things that I think we all need to recognize is farmers don’t want to rely on anybody. They want to be self-reliant. They want to take care of themselves while at the same time taking care of us. Right now they’re having to determine whether or not bailouts for them are a good thing. They don’t want bailouts. They just want to farm and they want to be self-reliant. And this is one of those ways that they can be self-reliant. And we shouldn’t have people telling them that they can’t do it because then all they have to turn to is having to rely on others. And that’s not what they want.

Aaron Nichols: Right. And I think this goes back to misinformation as well. I think unfortunately, clean energy just gets lumped in with other political issues and certain people on one side of the aisle just don’t really question that they’re against it—just like certain people on one side of the aisle don’t really question that they’re for it. And it takes a little bit of nuance to reach out and be okay with these things and think about and actually have real conversations.

Jim Gregory: Aaron, I’m going to agree with you, but I’m going to add. Right now in Pennsylvania, there is legislation with the Lightning Plan by Governor Shapiro and siting reform. And siting reform is going to struggle to go anywhere because there’s also disagreements within each party. If a far-left group doesn’t want to see something happen that’s friendly for Democrats, they can stand in the way of what would appear to be an easy Democrat issue. But right now struggles within each party are also causing delays to moving policy forward in Pennsylvania.

Aaron Nichols: That’s a good point and thank you for adding that. So one of our big goals—and as we wind down, I have two more questions I want to ask you guys—and one of our big goals for 2026 is to expand further west, and we’re planning to head out towards y’all. We’re very excited as a 20-year solar installer that has a really good reputation to start building out that way. And we were wondering what advice you have for solar companies who want to land more conservative customers? What kind of messaging worked for you, Jim?

Jim Gregory: So the messaging that works for me is that I can stand on my own story. I can stand on my record as a conservative voter. I can tell you who I voted for—it wouldn’t be a surprise—but I also believe that we need to recognize the importance of landowners’ rights and property owners’ rights. And what’s hard for folks that are more friendly left of center is for them to message those kinds of things. And so that’s why they come to us—because we’re able to help them genuinely believe that they can message what we message, because at the end of the day, it’s about getting a project done. Justin, you have a little more experience with this, please. And we are running out of time, so I want to be respectful here.

Aaron Nichols: Yes, thank you. We can go to 10:45 and I’ll edit this piece out.

Justin Mason: When it comes to working inside of predominantly conservative communities—i.e., rural areas—right? Truly, red supply, blue demand. Very much so. And when it comes down to it, you have to be very genuine. When you show up to the township, you need to come to the township. If you’re an industry participant, if you are a developer, you need to show up at the township. You need to show up at the conservation district. You need to show up at the county. You need to show up in the legislative office. You need to find what’s the community concerns? What does the community need? How can you be a great neighbor to those who live around your installation? What’s the prevailing thoughts of those who are going to be living next door to your energy-contributing piece to their community? Find out that, have a conversation, shake their hand, talk to them in the front yard, buy a cup of coffee. Maybe take them out for a meal. Talk to them. They are the neighbors of your installation. They need to be courted. And that’s where trust is developed.

Jim Gregory: Aaron, there’s a lack of trust in so much of our lives these days. And if we can meet them where they are—meet them where they are. Don’t come to them and tell them. Don’t dictate to them. Don’t preach to them. Meet them where they are, and then go from there. That’s what we have found to be the best path to getting support for our organization, for organizations like yours.

Aaron Nichols: Of course. Yeah. We’re not here to save you. We’re here to listen. Early and often. So, to close things, I’ve asked every guest this question since I started this a few months ago. And it’s a really fun moonshot question that I like to throw out there. It started because I was at my grandma’s 80th birthday party a few months ago. And as I was writing a LinkedIn post about it afterwards, I realized like, wow, 80 years. This woman was born into a world where renewable energy did not exist. She was born in rural Missouri 10 years after the Electrification Act, so barely when the country had gotten electricity. The only way we knew how to generate electricity was to dig things up and burn them. We had no other understanding. Windmills, I think, just pumped water. No one had made them generate electricity yet. And within 80 years, everything that’s unfolded has basically come out of nowhere. I think the first solar PV cell was 1954. Jimmy Carter put solar panels on the White House in 1979 and those were solar thermal. They weren’t even solar PV cells. And then within the turn of the century, we’ve gone from—I think I was talking to someone yesterday who said somewhere around $40, $50 a watt for solar energy—down just to produce solar below a dollar a watt. So there’s so much change that’s happened in the last 80 years, and if you two were to just completely project a hypothetical future 80 years from now of clean energy, what would you say? And don’t worry, because we’ll all be dead. No one’s going to hold this. But I would love to—

Jim Gregory: Go ahead. You go first.

Justin Mason: Yeah. Oh, put it on me. Eighty years out—new technological applications of solar: windows, paints on buildings. I would say even changes to the way energy is distributed via energy generation, right? We might have microgrids be more of a thing, if you will, in the sense of dispatch for immediacy of generation and instant gratification of the needs that we all have. Energy demand is scaling year by year, day by day even at this point. So looking 80 years out, what will be the clean energy contributions to the grid? I definitely see fuel cell, energy cell, battery cell type technologies well dispersed through the grid system. And I don’t know—maybe obviously fusion and fission. And a whole host of new technologies, I’m sure, in geothermal. I bet geothermal is going to exponentially take off in the sense of clean energy tech through the decades. That’s my final answer, Jim.

Jim Gregory: Aaron, I’m probably not going to answer the question like that, all right? Like when we are in conservative legislative offices and we’re talking about the need for this type of energy source that we’re talking about—and we remind them that preppers are folks who they relate to very much. Preppers don’t want to rely on the government. They want to be able to rely on themselves. I’m hoping that 80 years from now, those preppers are still preparing and not having to live something really happened. So that would be my hope for 80 years from now—that preppers still need to be preppers. But I’m going to work in a personal story here: as a person who lives in long-term recovery for almost 16 years, I have a one-day-at-a-time motto. And so I don’t tend to allow myself to look out like that. I’m just taking it one day at a time because I’m not guaranteed tomorrow. And so one day at a time, I realize that what I would like for people to have is that realization that they can overcome the fear of this type of source of energy before the pain requires them to. And every day that they feel the pain of their costs going up on their energy bills or they feel the pain of a blackout or a brownout—in Pennsylvania, we never thought that would ever, ever happen here because it should never, ever happen here—but it’s possible because sometimes we’re our own worst enemy in taking what we have and eating our seed and turning it into prosperity for Pennsylvania. I’m just hoping that we get rid of that fear of these energy sources before that pain requires us to. So fear is a great motivator to make you do something or not do something, and when the pain comes, you realize “I gotta do it,” but I would like to see—any day—that people realize that fear is not worth the pain that they’re experiencing and it’s okay to engage in these types of conversations about what’s possible.

Aaron Nichols: Great way to end, Jim. Yeah, that’s a perfect way to bring us home. And thank you to everyone who tuned in today. That’s been This Week in Solar. Look forward to talking to you next week, and thank both of you guys for coming on.

Sonny explains how solar companies can stop burning cash on new leads by unlocking the hidden value sitting in their (often neglected) CRMs.

You can connect with Sonny on LinkedIn here.

Listen to this episode here, or on:

* YouTube

* Apple Podcasts

* Spotify

Expect to learn:

* What “database reactivation” actually means and looks like day-to-day.

* The critical lessons solar installers should steal from the HVAC industry.

* How to build recurring revenue through Operations & Maintenance (O&M) memberships and move beyond the “just call me if it breaks” mindset.

Quotes from the episode:

“Reactivating that database is... reaching back out to those people so that number one, you can stay top of mind... and you can decrease your cost of acquisition because there’s no cold source ads going on.”

- Sonny Sacks

Transcript:

Aaron Nichols: Sonny, on LinkedIn, you list your job title as database, database reactivation specialist. What does that mean and what does that look like day-to-day?

Sonny Sacks: Great question. So, database, let’s just start there. Most companies, established companies, they have a CRM, right, customer relations manager, which is, you know, how they track their incoming leads, their prospects, how they follow up, you know, jobs that are in the pipeline and where they’re at in the pipeline, and so on and so forth. So, reactivation is kind of like how it sounds, right? Reactivating that database. A lot of, and I consider myself a specialist because this is what I do, but a lot of companies have thousands and thousands and thousands of leads that have gone cold, people that have expressed interest and they never heard from again, you know, appointments that were made or estimates that were given that were never followed up with or sold and a lot of, you know, past customers who, you know, company didn’t hear from and hasn’t heard from in a year to three.

So with The database reactivation is reaching back out to those people and kind of nurturing that list of people so that number one, you can stay top of mind number two. You can generate business number three. You can expand the lifetime customer value in number three. You can decrease your cost of acquisition because there’s no cold source ads going on. We’re just reactivating what you already have. And I mean, it’s an incredibly cost effective way to increase revenue quickly without having to replace anything. Right. That’s my answer.

Aaron Nichols: Okay. And so when we talked before the show, you said, I’ve been working in the HVAC industry and I’ve seen how solar shops could seriously take a note or two from HVAC. Now, before we jump into that. I want to talk about your recent shift that you told me about before we started recording, where you said that you had almost like an awakening, where you realized that you wanted to work in clean energy.

Sonny Sacks: Yeah. Okay. I’m going to try to not get too hyped. Okay. I’m excited. So, the question, let me just make sure, the question is you want to hear more about my recent awakening.

Aaron Nichols: Yeah. Absolutely.

Sonny Sacks: So yeah, like you said, you know, I’ve the most of my business has been with the HVAC industry plumbing, other contractors, things like that. But mostly HVAC and plumbing. And I was reflecting on it was December last month. And I know this isn’t going to publish until like April or whatever. But it was in December 2025. And you know, reflecting on my year and I’m thinking about, you know, where I want my life to go and I had this moment of like I could die two day and my life will be over. The end of the chapter will be gone and the book will be a wrap. And you know, I thought about what I’ve been doing as far as my personal life, which has been completely separate from how I make money and I really try to serve God and man in my personal life. But when it comes to my business, I, you know, I help HVAC companies and that helps people be comfortable and that’s great and I help plumbing companies and that helps people with, you know, that, that kind of stuff.

And that’s great. But it’s, it isn’t. It just, it just, there was, there was a feeling that I had that felt like I could do more that like I didn’t want to be on my deathbed thinking about if there was a more impactful way I could have conducted my business and applied my skills. And I started really going on, you know, a rabbit hole about that and really starting to think like, what are the issues facing humanity right now? What’s happening in, you know, 2025, 2026 for people and not just where I live in my community, but all over the world. And I started thinking about, of course, you know, AI, AI, this AI that and data centers this and data centers that. And I, I, I started going really deep into thinking about the, um, clean energy because going from AI and data centers, what powers those things? What’s the fundamental layer that powers these world changing shifts that are literally happening before my eyes that like by the time, like I’m my grandchildren are going to ask me what it was like to live in 2025 and beyond, you know?

And that’s when I got down to the fundamental layer of electricity of the kilowatt. And I started to really think about, well, how’s that look in these days? And I started going on a really, really deep, you know, rabbit hole on how it’s not sustainable the way we do it. the way we dig things up and set them on fire and how it’s destroying our planet means that by the time my grandchildren or adults, they’re going to inherit a planet that I mean since I was in middle school, I’m 33 years old and since I was in middle school maybe even before that, I remember climate change being a topic. I remember like when Al Gore made that one documentary and I remember thinking about these things and you know them talking about it in school but it was It was always just like, yeah, whatever. Yeah, I want to make money. That doesn’t matter. I don’t want to make money. Right. And it’s over time. It’s become, it’s always been a topic in my life. Like whenever I look at the news or politics or whatever, it’s always been a topic. And like finally, I was, I was, I think I heard Elon Musk say it on X. He said something like there is no, like, more impactful thing happening for our humanity on the planet, other than space colonization and AI, the thing that’s going to power these two, these two amazing things is clean energy.

We have to figure out a way to harness the power of the sun, specifically, and use it in a sustainable way that can basically allow humanity to power forward in a sustainable way without, you know, having a net loss going down, you know. Yeah. So, um, that’s, so I once I realized this and like it dawned on me, it was just like, I, I thought like, okay, how do I help? How do I contribute? How do I help? And I was going to go volunteer to like, uh, for, well, I was going to like start working for grid and like do those like you know volunteer work around the world setting up solar panels and stuff. And I was like well maybe I should just go get a job at a solar company. And I’m like I’ll just sell solar and start door knocking. And now I like started like really thinking like how do I build something? Can I build something and let’s just like wait a minute. This is my skill set. I know how to do this, you know. I’m already doing things. Exactly. And it’s just like I can help do I can transfer this over here. And that’s that’s I think that answers your question. That’s my, that’s a long rant.

Aaron Nichols: Sorry, it’s amazing. And it’s much needed within the solar industry. And just a quick sidebar before we keep going, there’s a company called Twin Day Solar. You should look up. T-W-E-N-D-E. It’s a non-profit run by a woman named Robin Swan Heiser. I’m going to say her name wrong and she’s going to make fun of me. But they handle Solar around the world, they really just do one project at a time. They’re a very small nonprofit, but they build solar projects in places where electrification is the primary need. The next one they’re going to build is an Ecuador in like an off-grid school or something. So incredible use of remote, volunteering time, if you ever want someone like that.

Sonny Sacks: Twin day. Yes. Twin day solar.

Aaron Nichols: Now going back to HVAC, and HVAC being a more established industry, you said that solar could take a note or two from HVAC. So is HVAC much better generally at using their old databases?

Sonny Sacks: Okay, that’s a great question. So the thing about the HVAC industry or the plumbing industry or any of these home service industries is the variance, right? And when I say variance, I’m talking about the variance in the sophistication of business practices for example.

Aaron Nichols: Totally. You know what I mean? Yeah. It’s Jim with a truck or it’s the company that covers 30 states.

Sonny Sacks: Exactly. It’s Jim with a truck, no CRM, and when I, you know, reactivate his database and send him a lead, he answers the phone, like, yeah, it’s Jim. It’s like, oh my gosh. But yeah, so, but generally speaking, like if we can, you know, when Jimmy decides that he wants to, you know, kind of step his game up a little bit, right? The first thing he’s got to do is get a CRM. Like I’m, I’m as a database reactivation specialist. I’m shocked at how many companies don’t have a CRM. like baffled, like you’re not even, there’s nothing for me to reactivate.

Aaron Nichols: Yeah, without a database.

Sonny Sacks: Yeah, I mean, their CRM is like a couple of cell sheets. It’s just like, oh my god, you know? So the first thing is they gotta have a CRM and the people, the companies that have the CRM and that are past that threshold of like, yep, we’ve been working on word of mouth and referrals and we’re doing fine. It’s like, okay. So those people go forth and multiply, love it. You know what I mean? But for the people who, the companies who like understand that, okay, this is a very seasonal type thing. This is a kind of feast or famine type thing. Like I need to, I have employees now. I need a level of consistency in my business and growth and sustainable growth, and those people understand the needs who market, they have a website, they invest in their marketing, they have a marketing budget, and what I have seen in the HVAC industry, specifically the HVAC industry, because recently a few years back, private equity firms came in to the HVAC industry, and they really changed the game.

They they brought a level of sophistication into that industry that changed everything for everybody and What happened was is people started to see like here are these companies with these giant budgets that are just Dominating Google ads dominating Facebook ads dominating paper click and SEO, right and so you know new lead acquisition and became a lot more expensive and a lot more difficult, but still necessary. And studies have shown over time that what was it? The largest companies, 70%, I believe it was, 70% of their revenue came from recurring customers, people who are already in their database, people who, you know, bought a system, joined a membership, bought this repair, bought this seasonal thing, and they basically, it has become and is becoming standardized to, you know, nurture and farm and reactivate a database. As a result of that, different software has popped up that, you know, automates that, but the thing is, is it takes work to use those software tools, right?

And you know, some shops are doing, you know, who are over the $10, $15 million mark, they, you know, can afford to hire an in-house marketing team where they manage and use these tools that help them do their job, then you have the Jimmy’s of the world and then you have everybody in the middle where it’s like, yeah, I guess I’ll spend the money on the software tool but now I got to hire somebody to do it and I don’t have time and I got to focus on this and it’s to answer your question, that’s a long-winded random so sorry, I just, I have a tendency to, it’s almost like, especially talking on like a video like I have to formulate my thoughts in how in a context that like makes sense to me. I wish it could be more succinct.

Aaron Nichols: Well, I am able to edit so I can edit out just to make a great one. But to answer your question, yes. Generally speaking, the HVAC industry understands the need to cultivate and and continually reach out to their database and they it’s becoming more of a standardize practice, it’s becoming more of a, it’s becoming more of a, I don’t want to say need. I want to say more of a, more of a standard, I guess is the word. Yeah, more of a standard, yeah. So there were, there were three things that you mentioned when you sent me your, your summary before I interviewed you and I used them to read the questions. They were database reactivation, rehashing unfold appointments and O&M memberships for recurring revenue.

Sonny Sacks: Yes.

Aaron Nichols: So let’s let’s just start with database reactivation like if someone has no idea where to start there What would you come in and do for them?

Sonny Sacks: So number one database reactivation is about putting the correct offer in front of the correct person right preferably at the correct time For example, I’ll use HVAC as an example because that’s the first time I come to my head. Let’s say in August, winter is coming, or not me, let’s not use that, let’s use March. Summer is coming, right? You have a database of 5,000, 10,000 people, most of which haven’t heard from you in over a year or two, or maybe they’ve just filled out a lead form, gave you their phone number and you never talked to them again, whatever. But what I would do is I would segment who you want to reach out. I would actually based on where a company is at, if, hey, we need more installs this month or, hey, we want to boost our memberships this month or, hey, we overstocked on capacitors. So whatever the case may be, it’s a matter of figuring out where a company wants, and And I apply this to solar thinking like, okay, battery storage, there’s a whole lot of homes out there that got solar panels and no battery storage. Those are the people who are furthest down the field. You’re not starting at the 20 yard line on the opposite side of the field. You’re already at least on the 50 yard line. So I’m going to take those people, I’m going to target those people.

And I have different automations that when I say database rectification, I’m not talking about like one massive text blast to everybody. And whoever bites bites, that’s what I’m talking about. I have found that once I know what offer a company wants to make, given their situation. I’m able to segment the best target customers for that situation. And then I’m able to craft a certain mechanism that automates the outreach via text messaging. I have found that text messaging is by far the best way to reach out your database vastly better than email.

Aaron Nichols: Yeah. And because everybody’s going to see it. That open rate is going to be like 99%.

Sonny Sacks: Right. Now, the thing about texting is it has to be done in a very invitational way. Like, hey, Aaron, I’m having a barbecue. We’re gonna have a live bank come out. My mom’s gonna be cooking brisket. It’s awesome, and it’s gonna be taken place on Sunday after church, come by. Let me know if you’re interested. Right. It’s very invitational, no pressure, no urgency, no, hey yeah, buy this, we’re gonna do this. And if you act now, then we’re gonna add this, and then, you know what I mean, call us now, and then we’re gonna, you know what I mean, like it’s not, it’s not that. It’s the opposite of that. It’s very invetational, I almost feel like, I mean, you know, everybody knows that marketers have a bad name. There’s a prejudice against marketers, you know?

Aaron Nichols: I’ve also found that people ascribe far more competence to marketers than I think is real. I’ll look into that in one second. I’ll look into the marketing as if we’re like actually pulling strings like some sort of illuminati. and there’s really just a bunch of people trying to figure out what works just like everything else.

Sonny Sacks: Yes, I’ll get to that in a second. You know, that’s a toll. I could talk about that for a cool moment. But hang on, let me finish that.

Aaron Nichols: We only have half an hour, so let’s stay on database.

Sonny Sacks: Right, right, right. So with the database reactivation, if you keep it really invitational and you obviously schedule out the right times when it sends, You know, it’s best to send it on a Tuesday rather than on Monday and you know if you send out the right times Where it’s better to start to sending between like 10 and two versus like six a.m. or nine p.m. You know and and if and if you send the invitations out in a way that strikes at the feeling like we were talking about earlier where it’s like it’s it’s less about like save money and it’s more about like Home comfort, or peace of mind, or whatever the case may be, depending on whatever promotion we’re doing, grid independence, whatever. And then it’s all about the follow up, where it’s like, okay, if I send a text message and I don’t hear something, the next day, they’re going to get another text message. And if they don’t hear anything, we’re going to send another text message. And it’s about having that continuous chain, that continuous, you know, they say fortune is in the follow-up, it’s about having the right flow to where like, yeah, and the way you want to structure it is, you know, here’s what we’re doing, this really cool thing, reply yes if you’re interested. And then, they reply yes, or they call indirectly. And then, it’s, there you go.

Aaron Nichols: Yeah, I think a good example of that a campaign we’ve run is just focusing on the storage customers, like you said, the people who already have solar who might want storage, and then asking them after power outages if they’re interested in storage. When there’s a big power outage in our service area, we message people who live there. And so many people are like, I hadn’t thought about it until now, but I would like that.

Sonny Sacks: Exactly. And not only that, the statistics have shown with database reactivation. And these are people who already know who you are. They’ve heard of your company in one way or the other. And they know that there’s something to buy. And the people who are responding are actively expressing interest. These people are three times more studies have shown. Three times more likely to buy and when they buy, spend 40% more money than when compared to a cold, you know, ad source type lead, just specifically if they’ve already heard of you.

Aaron Nichols: If they’re already in your CRM but haven’t bought yet, is that that’s what you’re talking about?

Sonny Sacks: Yeah, if they already are, if they’re already, if they’ve already seen an ad from you, fill it on Facebook or Google or whatever and or senior website or whatever and they’ve, you know, given you their phone number and their name and then you never heard from them again. that person is gonna respond a lot better than the guy who’s never heard of you before and is listening to your radio ad or your seeing your TV ad or seeing your ad on Facebook and scrolling past it, you know?

Aaron Nichols: Okay. Yeah. So the other one I’d like to talk about is O&M memberships. And I think there’s something that has been overlooked in the solar industry for a long time. The attitude has just been like, just call me and I’ll fix it. And obviously we’re starting to hit this critical mass. I mean, like my, we’re one of the few companies in our service area that will take on orphan systems. And one of my friends has just started, like, just doing service, and she’s crushing it right now. Because there’s such a need. Because that attitude of just calling me and all fix it, but not really having a plan, actually ended up driving a lot of companies out of business. And so how do you advise that people build-in service plans like from the beginning. That’s a great question. From the beginning, if we just add on, is that also something that HVACs used to doing?

Sonny Sacks: So yeah. So going back to the HVAC industry, what happened was a private equity comes in, the cost of acquisition explodes because all the bidding wars happened on the ad platforms. And what happened is it’s competitive. It’s a very competitive industry as is kind of every industry now. But people started to see how important it was to keep, you know, client acquisition is expensive. We own that. It’s hard and it’s expensive. And there’s that rule how it’s like, I don’t know, it’s like 100 times or 10 times cheaper to keep a customer than it is to get a new one or something like that. I forget. But my point is that, yeah, in the HVAC industry, I get a lot of my partners that I work with when I first start talking to them, I get excited because I have this install promotion, right? I have this install promotion that got one of my partners out here, half a million in three months, like, we got to do this install promotion.

And at the interesting thing is a lot of people want to focus on small service jobs, because it’s number one, it’s a lot easier to say, yes, to a small service job for, you know, 100, 200 bucks, then it is like a $15,000 install or, or, you know, in the solar unit, 20, 30, $40,000. And what I’ve seen happen is, is once people get on site with a customer and they can, for just a service job, they are able to do two things. Number one, enroll that person in a membership plan or a maintenance plan because it’s, you know, the benefits of being on our maintenance plan, you get this, you get two annual checks for free, you get priority service, you get discounts on parts and labor, things like that, you get the perks of being a member, and the second thing is, is you’re now top of mind, you’re now there, go to air conditioning person, you’re not just Jim in a truck, you know who maybe has a vehicle wrap you’re like when you when you get a text message from you know a company who you’re a member of it’s like oh this is my friend Aaron over there at you know exact solar let me know that they got this cool promotion going on rather than like who is this again you know I’m saying yeah it’s a lot more about go figure relationships chips.

Aaron Nichols: One of my favorite overused words that corporate people love to say at each other and then walk away.

Sonny Sacks: Yes, it’s all about just maintaining and developing that relationship.

Aaron Nichols: I came from the world of education, or we heard that word constantly. Okay. Sunny, I have learned so much, and I look forward to talking to you in the future, but we are unfortunately coming short on time.

Sonny Sacks: That’s crazy.

Aaron Nichols: Now, everyone who comes on, I finished with the last question. And it has to do with the fact that I spoke at my grandma’s 80th birthday party last year and realized as I was sitting there that 80 years means she was born into a world where renewable energy did not exist. She was born in 1945, which meant it was only, it was like 12 years before that the Rural Electrification Act had happened and actually brought electricity to almost everywhere in America. And, like, everything that we’ve seen from windmills generating electricity to solar, you know, just being invented. PV was invented in 1954, and then the price just falling and falling and falling until it’s the cheapest source of electricity now. All of that happened within her lifetime. And so, if you were just to make a wild guess, what do you think clean energy looks like like 80 years from now.

Sonny Sacks: Correct me if I’m wrong, but net zero emissions means that like we are now a clean energy planet. Is that correct?

Aaron Nichols: Right. Like we don’t need to dig anything up and burn it anymore.

Sonny Sacks: Correct. I think we’ll be there in 80 years.

Aaron Nichols: Nice. Okay. I like that.

Sonny Sacks: Yeah. Well, maybe not absolutely, but I think so. Like if we can get, I feel like other countries government are vastly more progressive than ours and allow and like understand the importance of what we’re actually doing. If we can get our government to be on that same page, I think it’ll, especially with like America’s influence on the rest of the planet, I think that will just once that happens and I do believe it will happen, it’ll exponentially take off.

Aaron Nichols: And some of it, I mean, as someone who’s traveled in so much of what you would call, like quote unquote, the developing world. It’s some of it’s not even progressiveism. It’s just not even like being at the point of grid development that the U.S. is at yet and they might as well just put in something cheaper now. So there’s a lot of optimism there as well.

Sonny Sacks: I was thinking about that too. Like we just had that major power outage in San Francisco. Yeah. It’s like, is anybody like, Like, it doesn’t, it’s not going to work if we keep going the way we’re going. Like it literally won’t work. It’s, we’re seeing that now. And with the bots that are coming out, the robots that are coming out, it’s like, what are we doing? Like, they’re, it almost seems like obvious. this.

Aaron Nichols: Well, Sunny, where can you be found online if you do want to be found? Where can people go?

Sonny Sacks: LinkedIn. You know, that people can always go to my LinkedIn. I feel like that’s where a lot of your listeners are going to be is they can find me on LinkedIn, probably commenting on your stuff and or my website movestraightforward.com.

Aaron Nichols: Awesome. Thanks so much, man. And for everyone listening, that’s been this week in solar.

Sonny Sacks: Thank you.

Dara Bortman is a Returned Peace Corps Response Volunteer and former co-owner and Senior VP of Marketing & Sales at Exact Solar.

Over 15 years, she helped grow Exact Solar into one of the most respected solar installers in Pennsylvania and New Jersey, building a company culture rooted in honesty and advocacy.

Here’s her LinkedIn.

Expect to learn:

* How Exact Solar grew from a single (almost accidental) pool heating project into a values-driven regional leader.

* Why honesty and education are the most effective sales tools for a solar company.

* How advocacy and community impact projects can become powerful marketing engines for any home service business.

You can listen to this episode here, or on:

* YouTube

* Apple Podcasts

* Spotify

Transcript:

Aaron Nichols:Hello everyone, and welcome back to This Week in Solar. I'm your host, Aaron Nichols, the Research and Policy Specialist here at Exact Solar in Newtown, Pennsylvania.

And today, as you can see, I'm across the table from someone. Someone not on Zoom, because I am in Boulder, Colorado for Solar 2025.

And we've got a very special guest. This is Dara Bortman, the one who started it all. One of the ones.

Dara Bortman:One of the ones who started it all. That's right.

Aaron Nichols:Yeah, you were part of a dynamic duo.

Dara Bortman:That's right. Yeah.

Aaron Nichols:Yeah.

Dara Bortman:Mark and I.

Aaron Nichols:Yeah. Yeah. Dara is one of the co-founders of Exact Solar, you know. And I have been doing this little interview series to talk to veterans in the industry about where we think solar is going to go, what's going to happen now that the Inflation Reduction Act's been repealed.

But I think a good place to start with this conversation would be to talk about the superhero origin story of Exact Solar.

Dara Bortman:Okay. We can do that. So, back in the olden days. I can't believe how long it's been. I guess it was back in 2005 or so.

Aaron Nichols:I was 12.

Dara Bortman:Oh my God, please. Yeah, yeah. I had children already. Anyway, so, Mark and I had always been interested in renewable energy, clean energy, and energy efficiency.

We actually took a class in Pennsylvania from Johnny Weiss.

Aaron Nichols:Okay. I've heard the name before. I've never, I never got to meet him.

Dara Bortman:Yeah. He was amazing. And he just passed away recently from cancer, unfortunately. Mark and I had always been interested in renewable energy, energy efficiency, but it was back pre-solar times.

So, American pre-solar times — meaning mostly that it was pre-tax incentives for solar.

Aaron Nichols:Right. So, both at the federal level and the state level, right?

Dara Bortman:Yeah, I think 2005 was the first one, if I remember right. It was around there, 2005 to 2008. In that area were the first East Coast state incentives, and also the federal tax credit, I think, started in ’08 or ’09.

Right. So, back in the early days, we actually took a class in Pennsylvania from the great Johnny Weiss about energy efficiency and renewable energy at the time, and we both took online classes, and we realized that, yeah, we weren't doing any work related to it, but it was something we'd always been interested in.

We decided at the time to pick up our family and move to Costa Rica.

Aaron Nichols:Amazing.

Dara Bortman:So, at the time we had a 4-year-old and a 7-year-old.

We'd never been to Costa Rica. Picked up the phone, we're like, okay, we're going to move there, on the map, and, you know—

Aaron Nichols:So, long before Costa Rica was cool.

Dara Bortman:Long before Costa Rica was cool, but it was a democratic country, it was safe, good medical.

Aaron Nichols:Right.

Dara Bortman:All that stuff. So, we decided we wanted our children to see that not everyone in the world got to live in a big house in suburban Pennsylvania like they did.

Aaron Nichols:Totally.

Dara Bortman:We wanted them to see that not everyone in the world speaks English, right?

Aaron Nichols:Yeah.

Dara Bortman:The type of things that we felt a child doesn't understand, really, unless they see it, right?

So, you can tell a kid that not everyone in the world speaks English, but I don't think they can conceptualize that until they're dumped into a place where everyone around them is speaking a different language.

Aaron Nichols:Oh, right? Yeah. Not everyone speaks my language. I don't know. Everyone's exactly like me. Not everyone looks like me, and not everyone lives in a big house like me.

Dara Bortman:So we at that time felt it was important to have a bit of an adventure with the kids, and we picked up and moved to Costa Rica for what was at the time six months and then it got extended to a year.

Not long after we moved there, Mark saw an ad in the local newspaper in Costa Rica advertising for Solar Costa Rica.

Aaron Nichols:A company down there that was installing solar on—

Dara Bortman:Right, on local homes.

Aaron Nichols:Okay.

Dara Bortman:So, he contacted the owner. He ended up coincidentally being an American who had just moved down to Costa Rica after being in the solar industry in California and Arizona for like 20 or 30 years.

Dara Bortman:So, people had been doing solar in America, but not PV. Solar hot water was his specialty. And he had retired down to Costa Rica.

Mark picked up the phone, called him up and said, “Can I just shadow you on some jobs? Can I just follow you around and, you know, like mind-meld with you and learn what you know?”

Bruce was amazing. This great guy — he would leave his glasses behind or his briefcase behind or his wallet. But he really was wonderful. He took Mark under his wing and taught him basically everything he knew about solar water heating down in Costa Rica.

So, while we were there for that year, Mark learned a lot.

Aaron Nichols:So to preface — solar wasn't even on your radar before Costa Rica?

Dara Bortman:Not as a business.

Aaron Nichols:Okay.

Dara Bortman:Like, entrepreneurial… there’s no entrepreneurs in either of our families.

Aaron Nichols:Okay.

Dara Bortman:So, being a business — a small business owner — wasn’t something on our radar. We both worked for corporate America. Mark worked for a company that was owned by a family, but it was basically corporate America. So that was never something that we thought about — like, “Oh, let's start a solar business.” It wasn’t on our radar.

But when we moved back to America, Mark reconnected with some nonprofits in the Philadelphia area that had been dabbling in solar.

Aaron Nichols:Okay.

Dara Bortman:You know, early solar water heating mostly.

Aaron Nichols:Who was it back then? Was there, like, a Solarize Philly back then?

Dara Bortman:No, there was none of that. It was actually the ECA.

Aaron Nichols:Yeah, they’re great.

Dara Bortman:They're awesome. And maybe one or two others. But when we got back, Mark reached out to them and said, “I learned a lot in the last year. Maybe I can help you out. What are you doing with solar now?”

And they were like, “We’re not doing anything with solar. It’s not happening. We're not doing anything.”

But one of them said, “Oh, but this lady just called us the other day and she was interested in solar pool heating. Why don't you give her a call and see what she wants?”

So he did.

Aaron Nichols:Oh, wow.

Dara Bortman:She ended up living in Yardley. He went, spoke with this very nice woman, told her about solar pool heating, how it worked, gave her a price… actually, I don’t think he even gave her a price. She just said, “I'll take it.”

Aaron Nichols:That's amazing.

Dara Bortman:She didn’t ask for references. She didn’t ask for insurance. She didn’t ask for anything. She just said, “That sounds great. I'll take it.”

So he calls the guy up that gave him the lead and said, “She’ll take it. When will you come out to install it?”

And the guy said, “No, no. You don't understand. We don't do it. It's all you, dude.”

So Mark came home that afternoon and said, “I think we’re in business.”

Aaron Nichols:Oh my god.

Dara Bortman:And that was the start of Exact Solar.

Aaron Nichols:As a sidebar, I love that every entrepreneurial journey begins with low-maintenance people.

Dara Bortman:Yeah, exactly.

Aaron Nichols:Like, “Sure, put it on my house. I don’t care.”

Dara Bortman:That was the first one. She didn’t even ask for the name of the company. She just wanted the pool heating.

So that’s how Exact Solar started. There wasn’t really a solar photovoltaic industry in New Jersey or Pennsylvania yet. There were some early adopters in New Jersey, but nothing in Pennsylvania at that point. But there were solar water heating and solar pool heating people, and we became huge fans of that technology.

It’s so efficient, there are no moving parts, and it lasts forever.

Aaron Nichols:Yeah.

Dara Bortman:We ended up servicing systems for people whose systems had been installed when Jimmy Carter was president. When he put those panels on the White House, some people said, “I could do that for my house.”

They installed systems in the ’70s and ’80s, and when we started Exact Solar in 2005–2006, people would say, “I think my system needs a tune-up.” And those systems were still working just fine — heating pools or the water in their homes.

Aaron Nichols:It’s crazy that in America when people think of solar, they never really think of water heating.

Dara Bortman:Yeah, it’s not really a thing anymore.

Aaron Nichols:What happened?

Dara Bortman:Well, part of the problem was that solar water heating requires copper tubing. It’s basically a big, well-insulated metal box — the collector — that sits on your roof, or evacuated tubes, which is another kind of advanced thing. Once it’s up there, it’s there forever.

But when copper became expensive, the prices stayed high. Unlike PV, where prices have dropped dramatically in the last 20 years, solar water heating didn’t change much. An average house in suburban Pennsylvania was maybe $9,000–$10,000 at that time, and I assume it’s similar now.

The payback depends on your home and what you’re using to heat your water.

Aaron Nichols:When did y’all start doing PV?

Dara Bortman:PV really started picking up when Pennsylvania and New Jersey added state incentives. That, plus the federal tax credits, all came in around 2009. I think our first PV system was in 2009 or 2010.

Pennsylvania had a bucket of money for both water heating and PV, but once it ran out, they never replenished it. That helped some early adopters, but really the PV industry picked up around 2010.

Aaron Nichols:How did y’all manage to build such a great company with such values? That’s one question I wanted to ask you — because we’re scaling such a beautiful reputation now, and there’s so much groundwork y’all did that makes it so much easier for us to sell what we’re doing.

Dara Bortman:That’s so great to hear. When we sold the business to Doug, we looked for someone who would continue our legacy — our prioritization of customer service and support of our employees. We really built a family at Exact Solar, not just an employee team.

How did we do it? I think from the beginning we grew slowly, which we were lucky to be able to do. We were also very lucky to find some great early team members who were eager to learn and do things the right way — the quality way, not the easy way — and have fun while doing it.

Aaron Nichols:Yeah.

Dara Bortman:And part of it is taking care of your employees the way you’d want to be taken care of. We didn’t have to build a corporate machine like the ones we had come from. I loved my jobs in corporate America, but I knew which parts of that I wanted to keep and which parts I didn’t.

Aaron Nichols:What were some of the things you didn’t want to keep? For anyone building a small business, what do you throw out to create a great culture?

Dara Bortman:Well… that’s a hard question. I think of it more as additive than subtractive.

What we added was more of that “female energy.” I was the mom at that company. Especially in a construction-type industry, that’s unique.

When we hired installers who came from other companies, they weren’t used to that energy — being open to people’s personal stories, listening, supporting them, and not throwing people away at the first sign of adversity.

Part of it is just listening to people and making sure you’re supporting them the way you’d want to be supported yourself. I always live by the golden rule — treat others the way you’d want to be treated. That’s the company I wanted to go to work for every day. Respect goes both ways.

Aaron Nichols:Yeah. It’s been wonderful to step into something like that. Even though I came in years after y’all sold the company, so many people from your time have stayed — like Don, Nick…

Dara Bortman:Yeah. Muzzy, Dima…

Aaron Nichols:I shadowed Dima’s crew when I was back in PA in May.

Dara Bortman:So yeah, we built a real family. And what came with that was caring about the triple bottom line — people, planet, and profit. We had the luxury to do that. Not every business does.

We didn’t just focus on maximizing profit. We’d spend more on employees, spend more time learning about policy that would benefit our employees and customers long-term. That long-term view is important when you’re building a company in perpetuity.

If you’re always looking at short-term profit, you might miss how policy being discussed now will affect your team two years or five years from now.

Aaron Nichols:Yeah. That’s where transitioning into the policy side of things — becoming active at the local, state, and federal level — has really helped us. I’ve been telling people, advocacy is marketing. Especially in solar.

Dara Bortman:Especially in an industry so new, where a large part of your marketing is education — of consumers, your sales team, your installers, politicians. Education takes time and patience.

Aaron Nichols:That’s something we’re reaping the rewards of now. Alyssa — our marketing manager — and I have talked about how funny it is that we’re both former teachers. Doug’s strategy is essentially education and advocacy, with a long-term view.

We went all-in on educational content two years ago, and now we have so much organic lead flow — not only from posting content but also from advocacy, like publicizing that we built a solar system powering a greenhouse in a Philadelphia food desert.

Dara Bortman:Exactly. Maybe that job wasn’t as profitable as a big suburban house job, but it was important. Those kids learned so much from that project, and will carry it forward in their lives.

Aaron Nichols:Not only that — we had our congressman speak at the ribbon cutting, and got free earned media that led to more jobs. We didn’t spend a dime on that — just highlighted our advocacy.

Dara Bortman:Right. That’s a great point. I never bought leads. Tried it once or twice — total waste of money. Leads are a waste. That whole lead-gen industry is poppycock.

Our marketing was customer referrals — to neighbors, friends, coworkers, family. We didn’t have a huge marketing budget because our customers were our marketing base.

We always put honesty at the top of the list — with the sales team and with customers — even if it was bad news, like a utility delay. Honesty builds trust, and that’s what makes your customers say, “I trust Exact Solar.”

Aaron Nichols:Which has been wonderful for me, because we’re scaling a locally-based, values-based business that cares about the work we’re doing. Coming from education, Peace Corps, and nonprofits, it’s been amazing to step into this.

Dara Bortman:And each job you install, you’re saving the world one solar system at a time. When it’s a product you believe in and trust, it’s so much easier to sell.

Aaron Nichols:So how long were you operating before you sold?

Dara Bortman:We started in 2005–2006 and sold in 2021. So 15–16 years.

Aaron Nichols:Obviously there were many changes over that time — especially with incentives. How did you navigate that?

Dara Bortman:The “solar coaster.” We’ve been through it many times — losing or almost losing incentives. The key was honest communication with every prospective customer: “We’ll try to get your system in before the credit expires, but part of it’s out of our hands.”

We required honesty from salespeople, even when they might be incentivized not to. That way, there were no surprises.

We also found that customers who care about the environment still want to go solar, even if the numbers aren’t as good as before. Many feel, “I need to do something to make a difference.”

Aaron Nichols:There’s also the American thing of giving people something and then saying they can’t have it anymore.

Dara Bortman:Yes. And a lot of our customers after those “down” moments were people who just needed to feel like they were helping the future. Even if payback wasn’t as quick, it was still a good deal.

You’re not going to stop this train — only slow it.

Aaron Nichols:The way I describe it — it’s a trilogy. We’re in The Empire Strikes Back. The bad guys have won, we’ve lost a hand, we just found out Darth Vader’s our father. Now we have to move forward.

Dara Bortman:Right. There’s no stopping solar and wind — they require no fuel. Once the power plant is installed, there’s no additional fuel cost. It saves money, it saves the environment.

Aaron Nichols:Nico Johnson talks about how weird it’ll be to tell our grandkids we used to dig things up and burn them.

Dara Bortman:Right — and it made people sick and polluted our air and water. And some people were okay with living in a pile of trash as long as they made money.

Aaron Nichols:It’s stressful and depressing right now, but if you run a brand with integrity, you’ll make it through these down cycles.

Dara Bortman:Yes. It’ll go back up again.

Aaron Nichols:So as someone who ran a solar company for 15 years — what’s your advice to other owners navigating this?

Dara Bortman:Solar’s not going away. Be honest about the numbers. Utility rates are going up everywhere — like the PJM auction results that just came in higher than last year.

Stick it out. It’s stressful, but if you’re honest, your customers will be happy. Lean on honesty, brand, education, and advocacy.

Aaron Nichols:I love what you guys did — encouraging customers to contact representatives about bills. Our customers appreciated that, and became policy advocates themselves because we pointed out what was going on.

Dara Bortman:People often don’t know what’s happening with policy. They think they have no power, but they do. Every phone call matters.

Aaron Nichols:Even though we threw everything at the government this cycle and still had leaders let the industry down.

Dara Bortman:Yes. It’s disheartening when representatives you thought supported clean energy vote against it, despite huge pushes from constituents.

It’s hard to pick yourself up and make the next call, but you have to. Even if it doesn’t always work, doing nothing guarantees failure.

Aaron Nichols:To bring it home, I’ve been asking everyone a fun moonshot question: In 80 years, what do you think clean energy will look like?

Dara Bortman:Transportation will be completely different — maybe flying cars, self-driving vehicles that charge wirelessly as they move.

Solar paint, solar windows, solar roofs integrated into buildings. Wireless transmission of electricity. No more mining and burning fuel.

Electricity will be cheap because we’ll be overproducing with solar and wind. Excess will go into batteries or be let go — and that’s fine, because it costs nothing to produce from the sun or wind.

Aaron Nichols:Amazing.

Dara Bortman:Yeah. It’ll be a whole new dynamic.

Aaron Nichols:Dara, this has been so lovely — and I think you thought you didn’t have much to say when you sat down, but it turned out to be wonderful. Thank you so much for doing this.

Vaughan’s an interconnection expert, industry veteran, and “muck shoveler” who tackles bureaucratic and technical hurdles that no one else wants to take on.

If you’ve ever wondered why we haven’t connected way more solar to the grid, this one’s for you.

Listen to this episode here, or on:

* YouTube

* Apple Podcasts

* Spotify

Connect with Vaughan on LinkedIn here.

Expect to learn:

* Why connecting solar to the grid has become a nightmare (13 states still don’t even regulate the process).

* How a federal mandate 20 years ago led to 39 different sets of state rules.

Quotes from the episode:

“We used to use libraries. We went to the library to get information and then we downloaded it. We now are seeing our kids learn off the internet where they are uploading things and downloading things. That’s what’s happening on the grid.”

— Vaughan Woodruff

“If we do this right, what I think this does is really enhances people’s control over their own economic and political lives... it’s about getting that power back into the hands of people.”

— Vaughan Woodruff

Transcript:

Aaron Nichols: Vaughan, you’re probably one of the only interconnection experts I know. You’re definitely the only public-facing interconnection expert I know. And for anyone listening who’s unfamiliar, can you just give a quick definition of interconnection and then give a high-level overview of the problems we’re facing as an industry?

Vaughan Woodruff: Well, first off, you’re living the good life if you can keep us at arm’s length. That’s great. Interconnection is the process the utility uses in order to make sure that anything that it connects to its grid is safe. This happens at the transmission level for big utility scale projects. The stuff I focus on is really on the distribution system—so everything ranging from small residential projects up to say community solar scale projects.

And so the interconnection process is typically, you know, a customer or someone acting on behalf of that customer applies to the utility. The utility goes through a set of procedures to check whether things are okay. And then it either gives the thumbs up or thumbs down or a thumbs up and says, “Hey, it’s going to cost this much money to upgrade the grid in order to be able to accommodate your project.” And the big piece that I focus on is how we regulate utilities for that because they’re monopoly utilities and really regulating them is how we make sure that we’re serving the public interest.

Aaron Nichols: Okay, awesome. Will you give just a general overview of who you are in the solar industry and what your day-to-day life looks like at Equinox DG?

Vaughan Woodruff: Yeah, I don’t know what I am in the industry. I’m a little bit of a vagabond. I started out in this industry like 20 years ago when it was largely a plumbing and heating industry. We were doing solar water heating at that time. And over the years as PV got more inexpensive and more affordable, it largely converted into an electrical contracting world. I started a company that started in solar water heating, moved into electrification—so solar PV, energy storage, heat pumps, as well as EV charging. Man, it’s been so long, I sometimes can’t remember.

I did that for roughly 12 years with the founder and ran the company. And then we merged with a larger national, multi-state company up here in the Northeast. I’m originally from Maine, where I live now. I have always kind of jumped between local work here in Maine—Maine’s a nice small state, a lot of connections here. I was the chair of the industry trade group through a pretty tumultuous gubernatorial administration here, so really worked to kind of build coalitions, both within the industry and with other advocates, and even with utilities and commissioners. Most recently, I’ve really focused on interconnection. It’s an issue that really impacts our ability to deploy solar, energy storage, and EVs that are able to backfeed to the grid at scale. It’s a really complicated and bureaucratic process. For some reason in my life, I always pick the things that nobody likes to do.

Aaron Nichols: You’re a muck shoveler.

Vaughan Woodruff: Yes, exactly. Beating your head against the wall. Because at the end of the day, it’s impact, right? There’s not a lot of glory in it, but it’s absolutely important. Interconnection is just really important to have folks in the weeds doing this stuff who understand how it works and can help bring coalitions together to drive change. I’m trying to do that, but we’ll see. My success will be measured probably as I’m sitting in my rocking chair late in life reflecting back.

Aaron Nichols: Well, for everyone who’s listening, welcome back to This Week in Solar. I’m your host, Aaron Nichols, the research and policy specialist here at Exact Solar in Newtown, Pennsylvania. My guest today is Vaughan Woodruff, who’s an interconnection expert and industry veteran, as you heard. It was lovely to hear you say the thing about the rocking chair. I talk about that all the time. I believe that if I spend my life putting my energy towards deploying as much clean energy as I possibly can, I’ll be able to look back at the end of it and say that I had lived a good life and that it mattered.

Vaughan Woodruff: Well, I saw you post about a grandfather who kind of gave you an earful. I had a grandfather who sat in that rocking chair. I think we probably had some examples there for us to think about as we have a chance to think about life in its full breadth.

Aaron Nichols: Yeah, absolutely man. So would you give just a general high-level overview of the problems we’re facing related to interconnection as a country and why it’s become such like a tangled messy ball of string?

Vaughan Woodruff: Yeah, the answer to that question largely dates back 20 years ago. In the mid-2000s, the Feds made it very clear that this was a state responsibility to regulate. There was actually a bill that got passed, the Energy Act in 2005, that said essentially every state within the next couple of years should put together interconnection rules. At that point, a lot of states only had regulations on the books having to do with big utility-scale stuff where you have to do engineering studies for every single one of them.

If you read the Energy Act—I won’t do it here because I want your listeners to stay engaged... it basically says you need to do this, every state you need to do this. And then at the end, if you look very carefully, it was an optional thing for the states to do because of “states’ rights.” What ended up happening from there were essentially maybe 39 different routes that states took. This process is essentially the same everywhere: you have a customer applying, the utility needs to assess the project and its grid to evaluate if it can be okayed in a few days or needs a big detailed study on the physics to figure out whether it’s safe.

We have 37 different sets of rules and 13 states that don’t even regulate it—they just leave it up to the utilities. So at that point, it’s just whatever the utility feels like. A big part of this is really about having consistent, enforceable rules. We don’t have that. It makes it really, really complex.

Aaron Nichols: Right. Yeah. I know that people in the industry love to talk about interconnection in Australia and how simple it is... How do we get somewhere to something like that as a country? How do we get the incentives right to make sure that we build a better system?

Vaughan Woodruff: One of the challenges is that utilities in this country are incentivized to be conservative. Safety and reliability doesn’t benefit from taking lots of chances. You take chances and the grid goes down—that could be life and death. It’s bureaucratic. When new technologies like distributed energy resources come in, it butts heads against utility practices. Oftentimes the solutions actually benefit both.

I was involved last year in a proceeding in New Hampshire where the utilities were initially very reluctant to look at IREC’s model. But after months of digging in, it became clear that good, strong, clear policies benefit the utilities and their staff as well. Number one, we need uniformity—some sort of underpinning foundation that’s roughly the same. In Australia, they have very high penetration rates and there’s a lot of innovation going on. I think at the end of the day, that diversity in the United States is wonderful but also challenging when it comes to scaling and standardization.

Aaron Nichols: So if I’m hearing you right, it seems like the utilities have been regional monopolies forever and have been incentivized to move very, very slowly... Is that about right?

Vaughan Woodruff: The paradigm has shifted. I like to think about it—we used to be libraries. We went to the library to get information and then we downloaded it. We now are seeing our kids learn off the internet where they are uploading things and downloading things. That’s what’s happening on the grid. People are now able to upload their energy and be generators and producers. That’s complicated. Now we’re expecting to see increasing amounts of renewable energy on the grid owned by a bunch of different people. States are grappling with how the utility model fundamentally changes. It used to be safety, reliability, and affordable costs. A lot of states are now saying there’s a fourth leg to that stool, which is decarbonization.

Aaron Nichols: It is such an interesting problem. I think when I was reading Gretchen Bakke’s book, The Grid, she was talking about how we insist on talking about electricity as if it’s a commodity like boxes of bananas, but it’s not. It’s instantaneous.

Vaughan Woodruff: Agreed. The grid is a really complicated thing. What we’re actually paying for on electricity bills is hard to understand. Right now we’re in the middle of a cold snap here in Maine, and folks don’t understand the electricity is really expensive right now because we actually have oil generators running because we need the capacity. It’s really complicated.

Aaron Nichols: Yeah, and I think the average person just doesn’t want to think about it at all. The only time in America that we think about the grid is when it’s not working. What’s an example of a company or maybe a state that does a really good job with interconnection?

Vaughan Woodruff: New Mexico has done a really strong job. They updated their procedures in 2023 to make sure energy storage is dealt with. More recently, the District of Columbia actually recognized that perfection is the enemy of the good when you’ve got these ticking timelines. They issued an order that created a program called a temporary conditional interconnection program, or T-SIP.

They essentially said: we’re going to tell the utilities you can increase staffing in the near term and stock up on standard equipment like transformers. One of the most critical parts was this idea of creating a conditional authorization to operate. A lot of commercial and community solar projects right now are looking at meeting place-in-service requirements which rely heavily on the utility. That blew my mind—that a customer’s tax credit is going to be dependent upon an electric utility to meet a timeline. DC said if there are grid upgrades required, a customer can build and power up—maybe not to 100% capacity right off—so they can meet the tax credit requirements. It’s a really great solution to a very near-term problem.

Aaron Nichols: That’s what I’m most excited about. Now obviously we’re going to get better at this stuff over time. What do you think clean energy will look like 80 years from now?

Vaughan Woodruff: I think 80 years into the future, I hope the utility still exists but acts more as a market and is more responsive to customers. I hope we see power return to our individual customers. One of the things that’s most exciting to me about this work is to get that power into the hands of people—to enhance people’s control over their own economic and political lives.

Aaron Nichols: Man, that’s something I can definitely get behind.

Vaughan Woodruff: Yeah, and we do it together. There’s another opportunity here where we do it fragmented and those who have are able to step away from the grid, while the folks left behind carry the load. We need our own individual power in a way that makes sure others are also able to exercise theirs.

Aaron Nichols: Vaughan, where do you like to be found?

Vaughan Woodruff: Well, I like to be found in the woods in Maine. For folks looking for me that don’t come to the woods, you can see my company Equinox DG on LinkedIn or at equinoxdg.com. We’ll be launching a course with HeatSpring at the end of February on the history of interconnection—I put “riveting” in the title because we’re going to do a lot of storytelling to make sure this stuff is accessible.

Aaron Nichols: Amazing. For everyone listening, that’s been This Week in Solar, and thank you all for tuning in today.

Vaughan Woodruff: Thanks, Aaron.

You have no control over how much someone charges for power for your home or business, but you can choose to opt out of the cycle by going solar.

If you live in New Jersey or Pennsylvania, Exact Solar would love to work with you to see if solar is a good fit for your property.

Whether you have cash to pay for solar up front or you want solar for zero dollars down, we have an option that will fit your needs.

Just click the button below, submit your info, and we’ll show you the numbers!

In today’s episode, Aaron talks with Rebekah Pierce, a freelance writer and first-generation farmer.

Rebekah is a former educator who’s now on the front lines of the movement to combine solar energy and agriculture (agrivoltaics). She deploys flocks of sheep to control vegetation under solar arrays alongside her husband and their five-year-old son.

She’s also just an awesome human to interview.

Listen to this episode here, or on:

* YouTube

* Apple Podcasts

* Spotify

Connect with Rebekah on LinkedIn here.

If you’ve learned something from This Week In Solar and you’d like to learn more, drop your email below, and we’ll keep sending you free solar news!

Expect to learn:

* Why sheep are better for controlling vegetation under solar panels than diesel mowers.

* How farmers are growing everything from kale to sun-loving tomatoes under solar arrays.

* Rebekah’s advice on shifting the solar narrative from “climate change” to “food security” to win over hesitant local communities.

Quotes from the episode:

“Food security is really a non-partisan thing. We can increase our food production, we can help America’s farmers, and we can help our soil—all while increasing our renewable energy production.”

— Rebekah Pierce

“It’s kind of cool because we think of solar farms as futuristic, but they are allowing farmers to return to a style of farming that people have done for centuries.”

— Rebekah Pierce

Transcript:

Aaron Nichols: Rebecca, you’re living what I’m sure many people would consider a dream as a freelance writer who lives on a farm. I think that there’s a lot of probably novels or movies with characters just like you. And I’m curious if you could just give us a general idea of what your day-to-day life [is like].

Rebekah Pierce: Sure, so I guess I’ll start with the caveat that even a nightmare is a dream. No, and I say that very, very tongue in cheek. But yeah, so my husband and I started our farm pretty much right when we purchased our property, which was about 11 years ago... At first it was just your typical hobby farm. We both didn’t want to continue teaching, and we wanted to expand our farm to more of a commercial enterprise... I left teaching around the time of the pandemic, started pursuing my freelance writing full time. It was also right around that time that we turned our farm into an LLC and started exploring this idea of solar grazing and agrivoltaics.

Day to day, the writing business is my full-time business. So most days I’m in front of a computer interviewing, researching, writing. But I also help on the farm during our high times. We start lambing in just a few short weeks here, so it’s pretty much all hands on deck. It’s just us and our five-year-old son who very much thinks he’s helpful.

Aaron Nichols: So for everyone who’s listening, welcome back to This Week in Solar. My guest today is Rebecca Pierce, who’s a freelance writer who has covered a lot of sustainability and clean energy topics. Rebecca, will you introduce yourself and just talk about your experience specifically with solar?

Rebekah Pierce: Absolutely. So again, Rebecca Pierce, freelance writer in upstate New York. We’ve only been solar grazing since about 2022. For folks who don’t know, solar grazing is just the practice of grazing livestock, typically sheep, under solar panels for the purpose of maintaining the vegetation. For us, our first initial reason for getting into it was a form of farm viability. My husband and I are both first generation farmers. We got into this with not a whole heck of a lot to our names. We got our first solar contract in 2022. We now graze seven sites across four counties in upstate New York.

Aaron Nichols: So just to clarify—do you bring livestock to other people’s solar panels and graze under them, or you do it on your own farm?

Rebekah Pierce: We graze as a third-party service provider. Often it’s other farmers who are leasing their land to the solar company. The solar company, who is in charge of the maintenance, pays us to do the vegetation management with our sheep.

Aaron Nichols: And have you found solar companies to be pretty supportive?

Rebekah Pierce: Back in 2021-2022, there was a lot of us having to pitch that sheep are cheaper than traditional mowing. But since then, adoption has increased due to advocacy from groups like the American Solar Grazing Association. Companies are realizing it’s not as risky as they thought. There’s a reduced risk of damage to panels because sheep don’t kick rocks like a mower might. You don’t have to worry about fire risk. Also, you have a shepherd on-site every other day who acts as the “eyes and ears” for the O&M team to spot things going wrong.

Aaron Nichols: I think another benefit would be just you don’t need to use as many pesticides or herbicides.

Rebekah Pierce: Yeah, you’re using gas or diesel powered equipment to mow around these sites, so [grazing] is cleaner. We don’t use herbicides or pesticides at all. Through rotational grazing, you can actually improve the soil quality of the site. It’s kind of cool because we think of solar farms as futuristic, but they allow farmers to return to a style of farming done for centuries—moving animals daily and feeding them grass rather than grain.

Aaron Nichols: For anyone who doesn’t know, what are the major benefits of agrivoltaics or dual-use farming?

Rebekah Pierce: Agrivoltaics is just any practice of farming under or around solar panels. In my book, I call it “Agri-Energy” to pull out some of the complexity. Economic viability is huge because farming is a very risky business. Beyond that, shade is incredibly beneficial, not only for animals but also for crops. There’s a narrative that you can only grow shade-tolerant crops like broccoli or kale, but we’re seeing that you can pair solar quite nicely even with crops like tomatoes that prefer more sunlight. There’s even a trendy term now called “Cattle-voltaics” for raising cattle on solar farms.

Aaron Nichols: I want to pull the thread of being an educator. I came from an education background as well. I’m interested in how you think being an educator has helped or hurt you in this work.

Rebekah Pierce: As a writer and a marketer, I have to understand my audience. I think the solar industry has a little bit of a PR problem. The conversation has always been about climate and the environment. But energy has become politicized. Food security is a non-partisan thing. By leaning into agrivoltaics, we can speak to people who are hesitant about solar by showing it increases food production and helps America’s farmers.

Aaron Nichols: I close this podcast with the same question. My grandma turned 80 last summer. Everything from the invention of solar PV in 1954 to it becoming the cheapest power source happened within her lifetime. What do you think energy looks like 80 years from now?

Rebekah Pierce: I would like to see a world where we don’t look at energy production, food production, and community resilience as separate systems, but rather things that are enmeshed. I want systems that are circular, where power and food stay within communities. We need to get back to producing our power and food as locally as possible in a way that benefits everybody at the most direct level.

Aaron Nichols: That’s exactly the future I want to bring about. If you want to be found online, where can people find you?

Rebekah Pierce: I’m on LinkedIn—Rebecca Pierce. My website is jrpiercefamilyfarm.com. I’m also on Instagram and Facebook, but LinkedIn is my number one.

Aaron Nichols: For everyone who’s listening, that’s been this week in solar. Rebecca, thank you.

Expect to learn:

* Why Thomas finally chose to go solar in 2024 after decades of wanting panels.

* How Exact Solar’s customer service and communication stood out compared to competitors.

* How Thomas cut his electricity bills by 65–80%.

Quotes from the Episode:

“Exact Solar wasn’t the cheapest, but they were head and shoulders above on service. Every question was answered.” – Thomas Crookham

“I don’t know why anyone wouldn’t do this if they can afford it and have the right roof.” – Thomas Crookham

“When I reconnect with people, they say, ‘I used to get so mad at rate hikes. Now it doesn’t even apply to me anymore.’” – Aaron Nichols

You can listen to this episode here, or on:

* YouTube

* Apple Podcasts

* Spotify

Transcript:

Aaron Nichols:Hello everyone and welcome back to This Week In Solar. I met today's guest at a conference a few months ago and he's also a homeowner who went solar with Exact Solar. So, please welcome Thomas Crookham to the show, everybody.

Thomas Crookham:Hey, thanks for having me, Aaron.

Aaron Nichols:Yeah, of course. I’ll just launch right into it. I'm really curious—what motivated you to go solar this year, and why did you choose Exact Solar as your installer?

Thomas Crookham:Sure. I mean, I've been wanting to go solar probably since I heard about PVs, when I was reading about it in science magazines before the internet. So, I've wanted solar panels for a long time.

This year, you know, we finally saved up for it. The IRA was in place, and we had just finished our addition. Our original roof was too pitched and not quite right for solar panels because we have a 120-year-old home, but on the addition, the roof is perfect.

So everything just sort of aligned in that regard.

And why Exact Solar? I did some research. I checked in with different non-profit organizations—gosh, I’m blanking on the name right now... Solarize Philly! Yeah. They gave a couple recommendations and I got a few contacts, got some quotes.

The reason I chose Exact Solar was they were competitively priced—not the cheapest, not the most expensive—but the service and answering all my questions was far and above everyone else.

I felt bad for Dave because I asked way too many questions, went deep into the details. He was super patient and answered everything. That was great.

Aaron Nichols:That's wonderful, man. Yeah, we get quite a few of those reviews. Someone just commented on the episode we put out yesterday saying something very similar: “You guys weren’t the cheapest price, but you had the best service and answered all my questions.”

And when it came time to put solar on their second property, they just called us without even looking at anybody else. Hearing stuff like that, man—that’s awesome.

Thomas Crookham:Yeah, it wasn’t like Exact was way more expensive either. Everyone was competitive. It was just head and shoulders above on the service.

Aaron Nichols:Yeah. I heard a quote from that financial guru Dave Ramsey that I love repeating: “If you do what you say you’re going to do, on the timeline you say you’re going to do it, you won’t be able to beat people off with a stick.”

That’s something we’ve ingrained in our philosophy, and it’s been amazing to see how positive people’s experiences are—and then they refer more people, who then also have positive experiences.

Thomas Crookham:Yeah. I don’t know why anyone wouldn’t do this if they can afford it and have the right roof.

I just got my most recent PECO bill. I had my system turned on in March or April. There was some issue with PECO not billing me properly. They weren’t billing me at all, actually. Once the new meter went in and it got corrected, I finally got bills a couple days ago—and it’s amazing to see how little I’m paying now.

Aaron Nichols:Correct. Yeah. Are you comfortable talking about the difference?

Thomas Crookham:Yeah, I mean, you’re recording me, so I guess you’re quoting me. These numbers aren’t exact, but my bills are at least 65–80% lower depending on the month. That was actually slightly better than expected.

I never projected to hit 100% offset just because of roof size and positioning—it’s not perfectly optimal, not south-facing—but the savings are still great.

Aaron Nichols:Awesome. That’s everybody’s favorite part. When I reconnect with people, they say, “I used to get so mad every year with another rate increase, but now it doesn’t even apply to me anymore.”

Thomas Crookham:I know. My family gets annoyed because I’m always on the app, like, “Hey guys, guess what I’m doing? I’m generating electricity!” They roll their eyes.

Aaron Nichols:How old are they?

Thomas Crookham:Thirteen and eleven.

Aaron Nichols:Oh wow—so right at the age where whatever you do isn’t cool.

Thomas Crookham:Not quite there yet, but getting close.

Aaron Nichols:Well, thank you for passing that education on to the next generation, man. That’s amazing.

So, during the project—you mentioned our team was communicative and answered all your questions. How did the experience go? Were there any hitches? How did we exceed your expectations?

Thomas Crookham:It was completely seamless. The install took place within the day-and-a-half expected. There was a small issue with the inverter not getting online, but it was just a quick callback, a calibration, and it was fixed.

Even PECO, aside from the billing, got their part done within about three weeks after installation.

Exact Solar was super organized: “Here’s what’s going to happen next, and here’s why.” It was all step-by-step.

Aaron Nichols:So if someone comes to you and says, “Should I do this?” what do you say?

Thomas Crookham:Heck yeah—do it as fast as possible.

Aaron Nichols:Amazing. That is so good to hear.

Okay, I’ll end with my fun little moonshot question. My grandma just turned 80, and I realized she was born into a world where renewable energy didn’t exist. Within her lifetime we’ve gone from only fossil fuels to inventing renewables, improving efficiency, and even putting solar panels on the White House.

So—80 years from now, what do you think clean energy looks like?

Thomas Crookham:Eighty years? My gosh. Honestly, I think technologically we already have a lot of what we need. The biggest hurdle is just getting humans to do what they need to do.

I think we’ll be at or near 100% renewable. Anything hard to decarbonize will still be synthesized from renewable energy sources. Maybe even solar airplanes if they advance far enough.

Fusion might finally be real by then. Geothermal will play a big role too. Personally, the thing I’m most excited about is solar paint—just painting houses and generating electricity.

I think we’ll have solar on every roof, solar fences, even solar balconies. We’ll have solar everywhere.

Aaron Nichols:I’d love to have a solar fence. My neighbors might not like it, but who cares—I’ll just design something that looks cool.

Well, Thomas, thank you so much for coming on today. If anyone has questions about going solar or wants to connect with you, where can they go?

Thomas Crookham:They can send me an email. Or if people contact you, you can connect them with me. I’m happy to talk to anyone.

Aaron Nichols:Perfect. I’ll keep myself as the barrier there. Thanks for coming on, man. It was a pleasure talking to you, and so nice meeting you at the conference.

Thomas Crookham:Likewise—let’s stay in touch.

Aaron Nichols:All right. Thanks for tuning in, folks. That’s This Week In Solar.

Emmitt is an absolute joy to interview and listen to.

Expect to Learn:

* The “know your audience” playbook: how Emmitt gets manuals and SOPs to land with 14-year-olds and grandmas.

* Why it’s important to start with love, let love help you create art, and let art lead you to mastery.

* Career advice for newcomers: “find your rock” (specialize), then collaborate to move the industry forward.

Quotes from the Episode:

“I want you to overstand, not just understand. Start with love, and the art will follow.” – Emmitt Muckles

“If your bill jumps from $200 to $400 and you can get solar for $200 a month—you’re winning.” – Emmitt Muckles

“Two literacies every adult needs: financial literacy and energy literacy.” – Emmitt Muckles

You can listen to this episode here, or on:

* YouTube

* Apple Podcasts

* Spotify

Transcript:

Aaron Nichols: Hello everyone and welcome back to This Week in Solar. I’m your host, Aaron Nichols, the Research and Policy Specialist here at Exact Solar in Newtown, Pennsylvania. And today we have a very special show for you. It is someone who is a new acquaintance in my life and feels like a kindred spirit. I had so much fun when I was on his podcast—it was my favorite interview I’ve done since I started in solar two years ago (sorry, Nico Johnson—Suncast is incredible too!). It’s Emmitt Muckles, ladies and gentlemen. Emmitt, if you’d like to introduce yourself—say who you are and what you do—we can get into it.

Emmitt Muckles: You know, when you have a name like Emmitt Muckles, how do you introduce yourself? It’s “Emmitt Muckles,” and everybody goes, “Oh, it’s Emmitt,” that’s how it is. Well, let’s talk about what I do—what I travel around doing. The big thing is I am what the guy who got me into this industry, Mo Mahon, calls a “social nerd.” Which means I like really technical things, I’m in my head a lot, but I know how to interact with people and I have empathy. I empathize with the audience: how are you interpreting what I’m presenting? How are you overstanding it? I say “overstand” versus understand because I want you to overstand what I’m conveying. And a big one—in sales and in training—is: know your audience. So many times I’ve seen people who didn’t.

Aaron Nichols: Yeah—do you know Spencer Meeks? His superhero origin story is training speakers in clean energy—he wants to make clean energy sound good. He hammers on how technical professionals don’t know how to sound charismatic. He tells a story of going to a conference where one talk was on starfish and another was on properly decommissioning the most poisonous gas known to man. He figured the gas talk would be amazing and the starfish would just pass time—then the starfish talk was phenomenal with visuals and storytelling, and the gas talk was just a guy reading bullet points for an hour.

Emmitt Muckles: That is a thing. I was just in a conversation today with a potential client asking, “How do we create engagement with manuals and SOPs?” You have to find the human connection. As you digest it, how would you explain it to your 15-year-old, your 10-year-old, your 70-year-old? There’s a dynamic: your grandma has patience; your 14-year-old doesn’t. And sometimes all of them are in the same room—how do you communicate so they all leave with value? You have to dig into the spiritual part of yourself—take your “eyeballs out” and look back at yourself. What would you see if you didn’t know you?

Aaron Nichols: Let’s talk about the Venn diagram—spiritual, engaging—and then your consulting business and how that fits into solar and beyond.

Emmitt Muckles: Everything I do starts with love. You have to love the people, the content, the structure—if you do it with love, it gels. If you do it just for money, you can tell; it’s not there. When you look for the love, you find the art. Everyone who’s really good figured out the art—LeBron, Jordan, Bruno Mars—they flow. For me it started with inverter training. I was working for an inverter manufacturer because someone I’d trained in another industry brought me in. The solar coaster is real. I worked at Fronius for seven years—people were shocked I stayed that long—but there’s a time and place for everything. Through roles and factions, training stayed in my spirit. Even in sales, I trained others. Recently I asked, “Why am I doing this for one fine group? Why am I in a box?” I meditated, talked to the universe, and got the OK: time to do it. What’s kept me here is it hits everything I love—being with people; really technical things; harnessing my ADHD to focus on NEC codes, UL listings, and hyper-local policies because they might matter. It lets me use all my talents. I’ve even DJed in solar.

Aaron Nichols: I noticed your LinkedIn—about 10 years as a DJ. I’m curious about the origin story—and how you ended up in solar.

Emmitt Muckles: There’s a guy named Mornet “Mo” Mahon. I trained him. We were in gaming at MGM Grand Detroit; we did some work in Vegas too. I was a manager, he a technician. The UAW needed to sort pay structure—folks hired in with different skill levels. I created a course: rudimentary electronics and applied troubleshooting. You took a test, your score determined pay. Years later, we’d both moved on. I check on people—love is big with me. I called him: “How you doing?” He said, “I need you.” He was at an inverter manufacturer and needed a trainer; that earlier course impacted him. He brought me on knowing I’d pick apart service processes (I came from automotive). I became trainer and troubleshooter and created the Fronius service program for the Americas—cost savings and community builder—bring people in, show you care, help them save money or create revenue. As for DJing: I’m from Detroit—always a side hustle. Marketing folks would say, “We’re going to Vegas—want to DJ?” I’d say, “Yeah!” I DJed at the Stratosphere, Gilley’s, corporate events—might DJ at NABCEP in Milwaukee. It all flowed from friendship, concern, doing good work, and genuine energy—each one teach one—elders pass it down.

Aaron Nichols: I’ve been blown away the last two years meeting amazing people in solar. I was in education—those weren’t my people. Peace Corps—also not quite it. In solar, I found my people: service-minded, hustling, hard-working, believing in a better future. With you working for big names over a decade-plus—how have you ridden the policy waves of the solar coaster and stayed so high-spirited? That’s what impressed me when I met you.

Emmitt Muckles: I’m from the east side of Detroit—once the murder capital—those were my coming-of-age years. Every day I wake up, put feet on the ground, use the bathroom, have coffee—I’m winning. Some people can’t get out of bed, can’t have coffee—I’m winning. I’ve been outside the country; when you come back you realize how good we have it. We drive ourselves crazy with choice. But to move forward we have to reevaluate the financial model to make solar affordable. I suspected they’d remove incentives, people would say “solar’s dead,” then raise rates—and that’s happening. I moved to Indiana paying under $0.10/kWh; I read it could go to ~$0.19 soon. We saw increases—people asked, “What’s going on?” That’s when solar makes sense in the middle of the country and elsewhere—offset it. If your bill went from $200 to $400 and you can get a $200/month solar loan with 100% offset—you’re winning.

Aaron Nichols: Exactly. Even if you finance, you’ve already taken out a forever loan with the utility—with no ownership, no innovation, just rising costs. Home ownership has costs, sure, but rates going up while EV incentives drop means lots of folks bought EVs without solar to offset. Now rates rise—making the case for solar without incentives. If people embrace that, they’re golden.

Emmitt Muckles: We’re at the infancy. I love Malcolm Gladwell’s The Tipping Point—we’re not close yet. Meanwhile, we’re adopting energy-hungry things—AI everywhere. Data centers require energy. Either neighborhoods offset with VPPs and intelligent grids, or we get brownouts. Americans won’t tolerate that. One gateway is “solar generators”—portable power stations. Park one by your entertainment center, run a cord to a foldable module on the patio—even in an apartment with sun. It’s economical. We often look through a toilet-paper-roll perspective instead of broader options.

Aaron Nichols: EnergySage just wrote about this. I did a 2.5-week remote work road trip with my girlfriend—dispersed camping—200W panel, a budget battery bank, and Starlink. We took video calls from the woods. With a $100 marketplace panel and used battery bank, you can run an entertainment center off solar and avoid utility usage. It’s also about literacy.

Emmitt Muckles: Two things every adult should understand: financial literacy and energy literacy. We take both for granted. On money, there’s credit—even with a 500 score you’ll get a card (at awful interest) and use it. On energy, when rates go up you need to adapt: maybe AC can’t stay at 69°F all summer—bump to 74; maybe your insulation isn’t what you thought. A little logic goes a long way.

Aaron Nichols: Having been to the developing world, I’ve met people with more “common sense.” Extreme privilege can erode it. I’m the oldest—my younger siblings had more security. Different experiences shape different resilience.

Emmitt Muckles: Exactly. We have a 16-year-old who barely goes outside—walked to the mailbox and got sunburned. Their world is inside. We just have to take inventory of where we are and see what’s available. For the next-gen of climate-tech workers: look at what your life could be in 10 years. Find a rock that’s yours. Mine is training and communication—that means staying current on a lot. But you can be an SME on one thing—be the person who answers questions. Get enough of those people in a room and all the questions get answered; from there, everything moves forward.

Aaron Nichols: So: don’t try to be a generalist—find what you love in clean energy and bring your special sauce.

Emmitt Muckles: Exactly. I know someone who just does safety—deep nerd on it. Someone who’s only into batteries. Someone who lives in permitting (my buddy Jeff Spies niched into permitting). There are countless avenues—technical and human. Sometimes the job is the human interface that ties it together. Early solar had a tight community—OGs who built it. Later came the “tight-suit” era—sales-heavy. We just have to keep the community going. If you get a chance, talk to David Katz about how he started—tell him I sent you. The elders were OGs; they built the foundation.

Aaron Nichols: To close, I’ve been asking everyone the same question tied to my grandma’s 80th. Ten years before she was born (she was born in ’45), the Rural Electrification Act happened. We only knew how to dig and burn to make power. PV came in 1954. In ’79, solar thermal went on the White House. In her life we went from barely having electricity to today’s ultra-low solar prices. Where does clean energy go in 80 years?

Emmitt Muckles: That depends on us—globally. If we become a global community and remove “us vs. them,” energy can be localized everywhere. Think Back to the Future—a tiny reactor in the DeLorean. Maybe not that, but breakthroughs are coming. I’m going down the VPP rabbit hole—my household uses ~30 kWh/day on average; probably more than needed. If we culturally condition ourselves to use what we need, not what we want, renewables and other methods become easy to adopt. It’s a mindset shift, and your generation and the next are perfect for it—you see the world differently. Limiting consumption saves money and aligns with values, and the second-hand economy makes it easy to get what you need and repair it—building a relationship with your things. That DIY spirit is where we may be going—much like your grandma’s generation.

Aaron Nichols: Where can people find you if they want to connect or hire you?

Emmitt Muckles: I’m heavily on LinkedIn. On TikTok I’m @SolarEmmett. On X I’m @e_muckles—just type “Emmitt Muckles,” it’s a unique name. That’s Emmitt with “ITT”; Emmett with “ETT” is my dad! I used to hate the name at 13, but now it’s great—nobody steals the handle. Thanks for having me—this was a treat. And remember: the sun never sends a bill… from the What’s Up Solar podcast.

I first started using Substack to host my own blogs in 2020, and it’s since grown into a powerful hub for news, thought leadership, and culture. I love Substack. It’s pretty amazing what you can do with it as a creator.

I’m fully sold on this platform (and so are iconic human beings like Pamela Anderson, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, and Julia Louis-Dreyfus.

But I realize that not everyone has used it yet, or taken the time to understand how it works! So I wanted to take a minute to walk everyone through it.

How to Engage

When one of our news roundups or interviews lands in your inbox, and you open it, this is what you’ll see:

I’ve circled the different ways to engage below, since they’re not easy to see in the emails. I go through each one in the video above, but here’s an easy guide to what happens if you click them (from left to right):

Heart = Like

Bubble = Leave a comment

Bucket with up arrow = Share

Circle with Arrows = Re-stack (re-post on Substack)

Read in App = Takes you to the Substack App if you have it, or to the download page if you don’t.

How to Read

If you don’t want to watch the video or listen to the audio for This Week In Solar, you can always just read. I write each of the news synopses I send out each week in Smart Brevity format, with “what’s new” and “why it matters” sections clearly visible.

So if you don’t want to hear my voice or look at my face and you just want to skim what’s going on in the industry, the writing is there for you. You can read Substack posts in three places:

* Your Email Inbox: Every publication you subscribe to will send new posts directly to your email.

* The Substack App: The app features an Inbox tab with a reading queue for all your subscriptions.

* The Web Publication: Every writer has a unique URL where you can browse their entire archive of past posts (e.g., exactsolar.substack.com).

How to Listen

Substack also offers several ways to listen to posts, whether that’s dedicated podcasts or narrated articles (some creators will narrate articles themselves, some will use AI).

1. Podcasts & Audio Posts

* In-App Player: You can listen to podcasts and posts directly in the Substack app. Their player supports background play, so you can continue listening while using other apps.

* External Podcast Apps: If you prefer apps like Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever else you listen, you can engage there, too. Substack lets you host your RSS feed in

How to Watch

Video content on Substack is integrated into the same feed as written posts. Here’s how to watch them:

* Video Posts: Creators can upload full-length video episodes or short clips. You can watch these directly in your browser or within the app’s inline player.

* Picture-in-Picture: On the web, you can click the “two screens” icon to watch a video in a floating window while you continue reading.

As promised, that was our full breakdown of how to engage on Substack!

My deepest hope is that This Week In Solar grows into a community of clean energy professionals and enthusiasts all over the world. Engagement is how we’ll get there.

If you’ve been enjoying what we’re doing at TWiS, please like, comment on, or share posts that arrive in your inbox. It’s the only way something like this grows.

Thank you for tuning in today, and we’ll see you next week!

What’s new:

PJM Interconnection’s latest capacity auction cleared at its $329.17 per MW-day price cap.

This is a 22 percent jump over last year’s auction, already a record-setting price increase across the 13-state grid.

Why it matters:

Because of this auction, electricity bills in PJM’s 13-state region (which includes PA and NJ) will rise by a further 1.5-5% in 2026-27. This price hike comes even after a cap negotiated by Pennsylvania’s governor Shapiro limited further increases.

PJM blames rapid load growth from AI data centers and rising peak forecasts for the record increase.

Gas units cleared 45 percent of the auction, coal 22 percent, and nuclear 21 percent. Solar and wind together made up just 4 percent, highlighting PJM’s further refusal to connect clean energy projects to their grid.

Analysts predict the Trump administration will cite the PJM auction results to justify keeping coal plants online.

Clean energy advocates say this latest auction is proof that “outdated and expensive” resources still dominate PJM’s energy mix.

Solar Generates More Energy Than Wind for First Time

What’s new:

In May, U.S. solar power crossed a milestone: it generated more electricity than wind for the first time (38,965 GWh vs. 36,907 GWh).

Why it matters:

Through the first five months of 2025, solar’s share of U.S. generation rose to 11% of U.S. energy generation (from 6.6% a year ago) and now out-produces hydropower, plus biomass and geothermal combined.

Paired with wind, solar helped deliver more than one-fifth of U.S. electricity so far this year, surpassing coal and nuclear.

Enphase Releases Easier-to-Install Battery

What’s new:

Enphase launched its 4th-generation Enphase Energy System built around the IQ Battery 10C

The update adds an IQ Meter Collar for whole-home backup (without needing to add a sub-panel) and the IQ Combiner 6C, which also simplifies solar installations.

Why it matters:

The new IQ Battery 10C stores 10 kWh of energy and delivers more continuous power than its predecessor. It can keep more circuits running at once during an outage without a wall full of gear.

The new Meter Collar lets installers back up entire main panels (not just a few “essential” circuits) without needing to add expensive sub-panels.

The Combiner 6C puts the solar, battery, and optional EV charger connections in one tidy cabinet.

The system comes with a 15-year limited warranty from Enphase.

Installers say the redesign will cut installation time and lower homeowner costs.

Sources:

PJM capacity prices set another record with 22% jump | Utility Dive

Are You a Customer of PJM? Its Capacity Auction Will Affect Your Electricity Prices in 2026 - Inside Climate News

Enphase releases 4th-gen energy system with 7.08-kW battery, IQ meter collar

Enphase Energy Launches Next-Generation Battery System for Smarter, Simpler Home Power

US solar produced more electricity than wind in May | Solar Power News | Renewables Now

Solar power out-produced wind for the first time in May

Solar Power World just launched a new series, Projects of Impact, in which they interview the owners and installers of the highest-impact solar projects across the country.

Exact Solar is proud to announce that the first project highlighted was our Habitat for Humanity project in Strawberry Mansion, Philadelphia.

* The Build: The project added solar to five newly constructed rowhomes, totaling 17.6 kW of solar capacity between them. After construction was completed, the first-time homebuyers moved into their energy-efficient, low-cost homes.

* The Funding: The installations were made possible by an anonymous donor who specifically requested that their contribution be used to add solar to Habitat for Humanity homes.

* The Team: The project was a collaboration between Habitat for Humanity, Solarize Philly, and Exact Solar, with the homeowners themselves contributing “sweat equity” alongside the crews to build their homes.

Why it matters:

* Energy Bill Savings for Low-Income Households: Each household will save over $40,000 in electricity costs over the life of the system, more than $1,000 a year that can be redirected to essentials like food and healthcare rather than ever-rising bills.

* Energy Equity: By pairing solar with ENERGY STAR-certified construction, these homes protect low-income residents against future utility rate hikes.

National Renewable Energy Laboratory (Recently Re-Named) Lays Off More Staff

What’s new:

The National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL), which was recently renamed the National Laboratory of the Rockies (NLR), has laid off 134 employees, marking the second major workforce reduction in less than a year.

* Second Wave: This follows a previous layoff of 114 employees in May 2025.

* Identity Shift: The cuts come just weeks after the Trump administration scrubbed “renewable energy” from the lab’s name, rebranding it to NLR in December 2025.

* The Reason: A lab spokesperson attributed the latest layoffs to “projected funding levels” and a need to align with “new priorities” under the current Department of Energy (DOE).

Why it matters:

* Strategic Pivot: The move underscores the Trump DOE’s shift away from decarbonization. Energy Secretary Chris Wright, who calls himself a “climate realist,” has overseen both the rebranding and the downsizing of the lab’s renewable-focused missions.

* Budget Cuts: The lab’s primary funding source, the Office of Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy, was recently hit with a 10% budget cut (though it avoided a proposed 75% slash).

* Impact on Deployment: The cuts are affecting staff who worked on practical deployment, such as helping farmers and small businesses transition to clean energy, signaling a retreat from federal support for renewable adoption.

What they’re saying:

“These actions were taken to adjust to existing and projected funding levels and alignment with DOE priorities.”

— David Glickson, NLR Spokesperson.

SOLV Energy IPO’s to $6B Nasdaq debut

What’s new:

SOLV Energy shares surged 20% in their public debut on Feb. 11, valuing the solar and storage contractor at nearly $6 billion.

* The Numbers: The company raised $512.5 million by selling 20.5 million shares at $25, but opened trading at $30.

* The Strategy: CEO George Hershman confirmed the proceeds will be used to pay off a term loan, allowing SOLV to exit the IPO completely debt-free.

* Their Pipeline: The company boasts an $8 billion backlog of engineering and construction contracts, providing clear revenue visibility for the next 24 to 36 months.

Why it matters:

* Market Rebound: The successful listing suggests that Federal Reserve rate cuts are finally reopening the IPO window for capital-intensive climate firms, even amid political volatility in Washington.

* Safe Harbor: Investors are gravitating toward “infrastructure enablers” (construction and maintenance) and view SOLV’s service-based model as a safer bet against fluctuating power prices.

What they’re saying:

“It gives us a lot of visibility into the next 24 to 36 months... and it gives us a lot of certainty of how the business will perform moving forward.”

— George Hershman, CEO of SOLV Energy.

Sources:

Anonymous donor helps Philadelphia Habitat for Humanity homes go solar

National Lab of the Rockies, formerly NREL, lays off more than 130 employees

National Laboratory of the Rockies (formerly NREL) lays off 134 people

SOLV Energy fetches $6 billion valuation in strong Nasdaq debut | Reuters

Lisa is a policy expert dedicated to proving that solar is a powerful tool for economic stability and poverty reduction (and not just for hippie tree-huggers).

Listen to this episode on:

* YouTube

* Apple Podcasts

* Spotify

Connect with Lisa on LinkedIn here.

Expect to learn:

* Why commercial landlords often hesitate to invest in rooftop solar.

* Why seasoned executives who know how to buy real estate still find solar proposals intimidating and difficult to compare.

* How changing state regulations in Pennsylvania could transform empty warehouse roofs into local clean power plants.

Quotes from the episode:

“For commercial property owners, procuring solar is something most companies have no experience with... It doesn’t usually reach the top of an executive’s priority list to figure out how to do it because they don’t know where to turn for guidance.” — Lisa Shulock

“80 years from now, I don’t think we’re going to be using fossil fuels any longer... the technologies we’re using now to convert the sun’s energy are going to be ubiquitous and incredibly inexpensive.” — Lisa Shulock

Transcript

Aaron Nichols: Lisa, there is so much available commercial real estate that we could put solar panels on. What do you think has held commercial solar back? Like, why don’t we see it on every warehouse in America?

Lisa Shulock: Aaron, that’s such a good question. And I think there’s a number of different reasons. One is, historically, solar has a reputation of being expensive and only for elites or tree huggers like myself. But that’s not true. And I think this is a perception problem that the industry is confronting—has gotten better—challenging that, but it’s still a legacy with solar. In fact, the program that my organization, the Philadelphia Energy Authority runs called Solarize Greater Philadelphia, in our program for homeowners, in the last few years when we started offering a low cost lease option, more than 80% of the contracts signed for solar on a homeowner’s roof were with low and moderate income homeowners. So we’re totally blasting that misperception, but that’s certainly one factor.

For commercial property owners, procuring solar—and this is true for residential as well, but for focusing on commercial, which is what I focus on—procuring solar is something most companies have no experience with. Like, they know how to buy office equipment, know, go buy a Xerox machine, they know how to do that. They need a vehicle, they know how to do that. If they haven’t done it at work, they’ve certainly done it at home. If they manage many, they certainly know how to lease or purchase buildings if that’s necessary. But very few people have experienced purchasing solar. And I think it’s kind of intimidating and it’s—doesn’t usually reach like the top of an executive’s priority list to figure out like, okay, if I wanna do this, how do I do it? Because they don’t know where to turn for guidance, I think.

There’s two more things I would want to say. One is that even if it does get to the top of somebody’s list, it’s not always easy to compare solar proposals. So different companies, different solar developers, solar installers may make different assumptions about how much electricity they think is going to be used over the course of the 25-year lifespan each year, or what kind of financing solutions are offered, or what the rate of increase of utility prices will be. So when you’re looking at solar, one company might be comparing it to a different price than another. And sometimes, although fortunately very infrequently and obviously not Exact Solar, there are some unscrupulous actors in the market. So I think that is an impact as well.

The program that we run that at again, Philadelphia Energy Authority in partnership with the Pennsylvania Solar Center, we’re addressing this problem by providing free technical assistance, including developing feasibility studies, distributing requests for proposals to solar developers, and then helping property owners to select the solar installer that provides the best value for them. So making that apples to apples comparison with the different proposals from solar developers. That’s one way we’re combating that particular issue.

And then lastly, and maybe most importantly, I’m not really sure what order I would put these in, that again, I’m speaking of commercial properties. Most are owned by a developer or an investor, and then it’s rented to tenants. And it’s usually the tenants that pay for their utilities. So, while installing solar reduces electricity costs for the tenant, the owner is the one that needs to recoup the cost of the solar investment. So you’ve got this mismatch between the financial incentive. Even when a property owner has a lease that allows them to pass along the cost of the solar investment to the tenant, those leases, excuse me, are usually significantly shorter than the lifespan of the solar. So there could be a period when the owner is still paying back the cost of purchasing solar and maybe they don’t have a tenant that they can pass the cost to. So that is a significant barrier to solar on commercial properties.

In Pennsylvania, we don’t have great financial incentives for solar. If you’re like me and you, when you travel and you, whether you’re driving over to New Jersey or up to New England and you look around for solar panels wherever you go, you’ll see that certain states have much more solar than we do in Pennsylvania. New Jersey has like all the same, you know, in terms of how much sun we get, it’s the same. What’s different is that some of the incentives are different in New Jersey. And even though it doesn’t feel like it right now, our commercial electricity rates are relatively low. They’re going up. We don’t want high electricity prices, of course, but higher prices do make the economics of solar pencil better. I mentioned a couple of the solutions to these problems. I can go into a lot more of them if you want me to, but that’s why we don’t see solar on every warehouse in every parking lot as much as I’d love to.

Aaron Nichols: Yeah, I like to joke that, you know, a lot of people will say we don’t want solar in our neighborhood because it’s ugly, but you know, it’s very hard to make the case that you’re going to make a commercial warehouse worse to look at by putting solar panels on.

Lisa Shulock: Yes, and I actually haven’t heard the ugly part before about solar. I’ve certainly heard it about wind turbines, but yeah.

Aaron Nichols: Yeah. Yeah, we deal with a lot of homeowners who say like, we don’t want it on the front of the house because we just don’t like the way it looks. We deal with that. And thank you, by the way, for just, I noticed that you added that little caveat. You said there was a lot of unscrupulous actors, obviously not Exact Solar. So thank you for putting that in. I’m very—

Lisa Shulock: Mmm. Some. Right. And I think there’s fewer in the market now. I think it’s a more competitive market. When we first launched Solarize in Philadelphia back in 2016, 2017, in the residential space, there were a lot of companies that were taking advantage of customers. We don’t see that nearly as much anymore. And I think that’s in part because we’ve been able to grow the market working with Exact Solar and some of the other Solarize partners in the Philadelphia region.

Aaron Nichols: So going back to business owners, why do you think, like when we’re talking about the education gap, the knowledge gap, and also the lack of incentives for them to spread the word, I mean it seems like if a business owner does go solar and they dramatically lower their operating costs, they’re probably less inclined to tell another business owner about it just because of competition than say like, Jim would be if he put solar on his house and he lowers his bills and he tells all his neighbors. I think that’s one aspect. I also know that business owners are just much harder to get in touch with, but what do you think the average business owner doesn’t know about how much going solar can actually help them?

Lisa Shulock: Yeah, I think a little bit back to what I spoke about earlier, I think most businesses don’t know that solar can really help their bottom line. And it’s interesting that you think that maybe they would be reluctant to share with their competitors. Maybe. But I also think that I certainly—like I think there’s lots of associations where best practices are shared. I’m not sure that it’s not like it’s an industry secret that solar can help reduce the bottom line. I think they also don’t know that it is affordable and that there are financing products that make it possible to go solar. And I certainly don’t need to tell you this, Aaron, but I think one of the most significant things about solar for anybody who has to pay for electric utilities is that it stabilizes and makes your electricity costs predictable and stable for the next 25 to 30 years. You’re hedging on the electricity market and you know whatever you’re paying to pay back a loan that you’ve taken out or if you’re paying a third party leasing company or paying through a third party like a power purchase agreement, you know what that cost is going to be every single year. We have no idea what electricity rates are going to be 20 years from now, no less, just one or two years from now. So it gives you predictability and stability. I think that is probably even if in some cases, maybe somebody would be paying a little bit more now than they might to PECO or to another utility where they are, but what they can be guaranteed is it’s gonna be a better rate than at some point soon in the future.

Aaron Nichols: Yeah, and that’s certainly why I love solar, is just the resilience, the predictability, and the fact that it gives power to the people, literally and figuratively. Now that you’ve shared a little bit of your wisdom and we’ve just kind of jumped in to the conversation, will you introduce yourself and talk about some of the work that you do?

Lisa Shulock: Of course. So I’m Lisa Shulock. I am Director of Commercial Programs at the Philadelphia Energy Authority. I’ve been in this role for about seven years. So PEA is an organization that most people have never heard of. We work in multiple sectors. And our mission is to use clean energy as a tool for positive economic impact. So we support the city of Philadelphia in procuring clean energy for its own use by entering into long-term power purchase agreements for solar. We recently did a very neat—we replaced every single street light in the city of Philadelphia, reducing the city’s electricity use by close to 50% for their streetlights, not total. So that—municipal services—is one piece. I’ve mentioned the residential programs that we work on, some of them. And my role is focusing on supporting commercial property owners and helping them access capital to invest in clean energy.

The program that I’m particularly excited about right now is one that is funded by two different local foundations, the William Penn Foundation and the Green Family Foundation have funded us and the Pennsylvania Solar Center, which works statewide. And we are providing these free technical services to commercial property owners to help them understand the benefits and the costs of going solar. So I spoke about that briefly before. I started my career many years ago in energy policy on Capitol Hill. I’ve done many different things in the interim and kind of made a full circle back to clean energy and sustainability in the last 10 to 15 years. And I’m just so thrilled to have ended up at the Philadelphia Energy Authority, which is doing work that is mission-driven, supporting the community of Philadelphia and beyond. So, delighted to be here.

Aaron Nichols: What are some of your favorite projects that you’ve been involved with? Like some of the ones that stick in your mind as great stories. I think we told the story on this channel a few weeks ago of our Habitat for Humanity project that I believe y’all were involved with. But what are some of your favorite stories of projects you’ve gotten across the finish line, I mean, that we were involved in or not?

Lisa Shulock: Yeah, well, I’ll start with one that Exact Solar was involved with. I wasn’t involved in it in a major way, but I appreciate that Exact Solar has been working hard with houses of worship to assist them in going solar. Last August it was, I had an opportunity to visit Wrightstown Friends meeting in Newtown, Pennsylvania. Exact Solar installed solar for them and I, you know, working with houses of worship and more generally nonprofits can be a very, very long sales cycle. Typically because they’re often doing capital campaigns to fund the solar or other improvements that they’re making. And I appreciate how patient Exact Solar and some of its business development folks were in working with Wrightstown as well as other houses of worship. So it was cool to see the solar on their roof. They also installed ground source heat pump technology—they’ve dramatically reduced their reliance on grid power. And I think the economics worked for them, especially because they, for the most part, I think did a capital campaign and raised funds from their members. And it’s part of their mission to reduce their carbon footprint. So that was a pretty cool project.

There’s also another fun project that... and let me just say that my involvement with that project was relatively simple. It was after the solar had been installed and after the geothermal had been installed, they were seeking the direct pay or elective pay from the treasury as a part of the investment tax credit. And I helped get them heading in the right direction and filling out the right forms and talking to the right people so that they could get their check from the US treasury, which they did. One other project that is small but really meaningful is Exact Solar installed a small system on a greenhouse at a Spirit Charter School, I believe, is that correct?

Aaron Nichols: Yeah, they’re called CHP Charter Schools now. They renamed themselves, yeah.

Lisa Shulock: Okay, CHP Charter Schools. It’s a relatively small system, but it is a teaching tool. It’s on a greenhouse that is used by the faculty at the school, and they’ve integrated teaching about the solar system into the curriculum, and I think that’s pretty cool. And again, it was probably more of a passion project for Exact Solar than a moneymaker, I’m guessing.

Aaron Nichols: Yeah, so that project is near and dear to all of our hearts, the one you’re talking about. And that’s actually the one that ended up getting me a full-time job here, because I was freelance back when we first started putting that together. And then it was seeing my excitement about it that made the owners of Exact want to bring me on full-time. It’s one of the things I love about working at Exact—I’m not trying to brag, but on all of the sales calls, someone brings up nonprofits. Someone brings up how we can better serve nonprofits. Everyone gets so excited about getting solar on schools and doing those really interesting projects that make great stories and make—I mean, they turn into great optics for the company—but we just love to serve the community.

Lisa Shulock: Yeah, and that’s it’s really clear. I actually knew the—one of the owners, Doug Edwards, owner of Exact Solar. I actually knew Doug in his prior job working for a subsidiary or an affiliate of Trane doing large energy efficiency projects for commercial properties. And I met him because he was working on a project for a Philadelphia building that ended up using a financing tool that we support in Philly called C-PACE, Commercial Property Assessed Clean Energy. And I love that Doug has the experience and background of understanding how commercial real estate works and where solar might fit in and has taken that experience and brought it to Exact Solar, which is pretty cool.

Aaron Nichols: Yeah. He also just has so much energy. That’s one of the coolest things is he’s just like, he’s an energizer bunny. He’s a creature of continuation. I don’t know, the man can just go and go and go. So it really makes it energizing and easy to get fired up.

Lisa Shulock: Yes. Yes. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. For sure.

Aaron Nichols: Now, I want to bring it back to what you were saying earlier about driving through other states and seeing all the solar and how other states have way more solar. I recently learned something—this was last summer at the American Solar Energy Society’s conference. One of the speakers brought up that 70% of the locked-in carbon reduction we’ve seen since the turn of the century has actually come as a direct result of state and local policy, which was really inspiring to me because I love local community and I love local action. I think that especially now when federal policy, especially for clean energy, is much more of a mess, it’s important that we band together in our communities and we realize that we have much more power than we think we do. And jumping off of that, I know that Pennsylvania is often last or close to last in renewable energy deployment, and you’re basically Pennsylvania’s solar royalty at this point. So I would love to hear you say like—

Lisa Shulock: I’m not taking that crown, but thank you.

Aaron Nichols: Why is that and what needs to be done to fix it?

Lisa Shulock: First of all, I hadn’t ever heard that 70% before. I’m just like, my brain’s starting to go, okay, so what would that be? It’s probably local building codes. Like, because one of the things we—one of the reasons that electricity prices had been flat for so many years, even though we’ve experienced population growth and economic growth, is because we’ve gotten more efficient at utilizing energy. And so that, you know, better building codes is one key reason as well as utility incentives. So I’m sure there’s many other factors, but I’m going to put that aside for a moment and get back to your question, which is—first of all, I need to be careful that I don’t get myself or my organization in trouble. So I’m going to speak at a pretty high level about this.

There’s a couple of initiatives that the solar industry and solar advocates have been promoting in Harrisburg. I think I’ll mention two of them. One is that some of your listeners may know about the Alternative Energy Portfolio Standard. And that is what creates this market for what’s called Renewable Energy Credits or Solar Renewable Energy Credits, SRECs or RECs, depending on what you’re speaking about. The Alternative Energy Portfolio Standard or AEPS has been stagnant since like 2017 or something like that and requires that only a half of a percent of all electricity generation in Pennsylvania be from renewable energy—or maybe it’s from solar and it’s slightly higher for all renewables. Please don’t quote me on this.

Aaron Nichols: Well, if I remember right, it was also mandated back in 2008 or something like that. And then the target of half a percent was met back in 2021 and hasn’t been updated, right?

Lisa Shulock: Thank you, that sounds more accurate. So one of the ways to incentivize more solar is to increase the mandated percentage of renewables on the grid in Pennsylvania, especially renewable that is generated in-state. Part of Governor Shapiro’s package of energy solutions includes increasing and improving the portfolio standards. So that’s one way in which it creates a better price and more predictable price for renewable energy credits, which can then be monetized, which helps reduce the total cost of solar for somebody who’s investing in solar.

The other, and this is one that I love to talk about, is enabling something that’s called Community Solar. I’m not sure if you’ve spoken about this on your podcasts in the past, but essentially community solar is a way to crowdsource investing in a particular solar project. For people, for individuals, let’s say who want to invest in solar, but can’t—like they rent where they live or they own homes that aren’t suitable for solar, too much shade, not an appropriate roof—I mean, there’s a lot of homes in Philadelphia that are totally appropriate for solar. Most of the row home stock in Philly is great for solar, but there’s certainly many houses also that have like steep slopes on their roofs, maybe old slate roofs, and it isn’t suitable for solar. Those folks who want to invest in solar could basically buy a subscription to a solar project that is not where they live. I mentioned earlier the challenge of commercial building owners not being able to install—or the financial challenge of the mixed, uneven incentives—community solar solves that problem, especially for warehouses, for example. So a warehouse owner could install solar on their large roof and they don’t have to be dependent on a tenant to buy the electricity from them, they can sell the solar to a subscriber. So in states where we see community solar enacted, we see much more solar on these large, particularly warehouses that have like not a lot of equipment on the roofs that are really great for solar. And also those buildings don’t necessarily have high electricity demand unless they’re like cold storage. And then that solar can be distributed to the community. So I love that as a solution and it’s not gonna cost the Commonwealth a penny. It’s not gonna cost electricity rate payers a penny. It’s really just a matter of changing regulation. So that’s a solution I’m very fond of.

Aaron Nichols: And now as we’re winding down here, there’s a story that I want to hear. This one’s basically just for me and I hope the audience likes it. But as I was researching for this episode, I saw that you had a profile on Green Building United that says that you worked with the Northern Cheyenne tribe in Montana through the Indigenized Energy Initiative to develop a comprehensive solar program on the reservation. I’ve had a little bit of experience like that. I got to spend the summer of 2023 working in indigenous villages in rural Alaska, which was an experience that completely changed my life. And I would just love to hear you tell a bit of that story.

Lisa Shulock: Yeah, thanks for asking about it. It was a roughly a year and a half that I was doing some consulting—was a very special time. The Northern Cheyenne Reservation is located in southeastern Montana and they had received the Department of Energy Award to install solar on residential properties. And it was one of the first awards of this kind, especially for—in particular for a Native American tribe. So they hired Indigenized Energy to assist with the implementation. And I happen to know one of the founders of Indigenized Energy from when we worked together at Penn State. The other founders included Otto Braidedhair, a member of the Northern Cheyenne Tribe, and Cody Two Bears, who’s a member of the Standing Rock Sioux Nation in North Dakota.

It was a fantastic project because a key component was growing a local workforce that would be used to construct the solar systems. So part of the work we were doing was designing systems that could be easily replicated—and basically you take the same system and bring it to every single house that was getting solar. And one of the things we were able to do, because this was a rural area and houses were pretty spread out, is there was a standard 10 kilowatt array that was ground mounted. So you didn’t have to worry about roofs. You didn’t have to worry about the quality of the construction of the house. They all had yards and with wide open spaces. For anybody here who’s been in the Northern Plains states, one thing they have is lots of wide open views. Like the sunrises and the sunsets are just extraordinary. Anyway, I digress.

Creating jobs and also dramatically transforming the lives of people who are able to get solar. And our priority was to put solar—the homes that were selected were ones that typically had elderly people. In some cases, we were able also to pair it with storage, with batteries. So we were prioritizing those with medical equipment that couldn’t do without electricity. So that was really cool. As is true, unfortunately, for many reservations in the country, poverty rates are really high. And solar is a really powerful tool to help reduce poverty in those communities.

There was going to be a huge boost in influx of funding to the Northern Cheyenne Tribe as well as many other tribes from the Solar for All program, which was part of Biden’s Inflation Reduction Act. Unfortunately, the current administration has rescinded the funding and it’s currently tied up in the courts. By the way, Solar for All was also going to bring funding to almost every state and many tribal communities. Pennsylvania was supposed to receive $156 million to subsidize solar for low and moderate income households. But to wrap up about being in Southeastern Montana, it was really powerful for me. Personally, I had never really spent time in rural communities, certainly had never spent time with native folks. They call themselves Indians usually. It was very humbling and very powerful. And I would say I learned way more than they learned from me.

Aaron Nichols: That’s usually how it goes, yeah. Yeah, I’ve been lucky enough to spend time in a lot of communities like that around the world and you do always walk away very humbled. So I ask everyone who comes on the show the same closing question, Lisa, and it has to do with the fact that last year I spoke at my grandma’s 80th birthday party. And after that, I was putting together a LinkedIn post about that. And I realized that the through line was that 80 years means that my grandma was born into a world where what we call renewable energy did not exist in 1945. The only way we knew how to make energy was to just drive around until we found burnable things to dig them up, transport them to a location, burn them, and send the energy outwards. Solar PV cells weren’t even invented until 1954 and then were used to power some satellites as they got better and better, but were incredibly expensive for a long time. Solar thermal came along and that was put on the White House by Jimmy Carter and then pulled down by Reagan and that all of that drama went on through the 20th century and then in the 21st century we’ve seen solar go from a niche luxury item as you mentioned at the beginning to the cheapest power source in the world. That whole story happened within my grandma’s lifetime and so if you’re going to play us out just moonshot to end the show like everyone else has done who’s come on—what do you think energy looks like 80 years from now knowing that it’s changed that much within the last 80 years?

Lisa Shulock: I want to take one issue with what you said—while solar energy hasn’t been around in its current form, hydropower has been around for a long time, which is a renewable energy source. So—and in some cases wreaking havoc on the environment and other cases working very compatibly with the natural environment. But I think 80 years from now, I don’t think we’re going to be using fossil fuels any longer. And I think the technologies that we’re using now to convert the sun’s energy to our lives are going to be ubiquitous and they’re going to be incredibly inexpensive. We’re going to see, I believe, a dramatic increase in distributed energy, but also a strong grid that’s resilient and reliable. And I’m sticking with it. I think that’s my optimistic view, but it’s also the one that gives me hope. And I think we, as you’ve pointed out, in just the last 25 years, we’ve seen an incredible transformation. And as you also pointed out, it’s now the cheapest form of energy and will continue to get less and less expensive and newer and newer technologies are going to make it the only source that we use to power our lives.

Aaron Nichols: Yeah, it’s gonna get more efficient too.

Lisa Shulock: Mm-hmm, absolutely, absolutely.

Aaron Nichols: Well, Lisa, where do you like to be found if you do want to be found online or otherwise?

Lisa Shulock: I love to be found. You can find me on LinkedIn at Lisa Shulock, S-H-U-L-O-C-K, or you can email me, LSHULOCK at philaenergy.org.

Aaron Nichols: Thank you so much, and for everyone listening, this has been This Week in Solar.

The clean energy industry is holding its breath as we wait for the Senate’s version of the “One Big, Beautiful Bill.”

Five Republican senators are voicing support for clean energy tax credits as the Senate considers repealing key parts of the Inflation Reduction Act (IRA).

These are:

* Thom Tillis

* Lisa Murkowski

* Jerry Moran

* Susan Collins

* John Curtis

Remarks we've heard from these five senators so far:

Sen. Thom Tillis (NC) told The Washington Post:

"An immediate phaseout would have a chilling effect on future investments in the domestic energy sector."

Sen. Lisa Murkowski (AK) made this statement on the Senate floor earlier this year:

"Energy makes us stronger, makes us less vulnerable, and it is an asset, not a liability, and we need to treat it as such. We need to be unleashing our resources, including all of our renewables, because that's all part of the energy basket as well."

Sen. Jerry Moran (KS) said in a statement to KSHB 41 News:

"I will support policies, including tax credits that will benefit energy producers in Kansas… We need more investments in energy production, and tax credits are one way to bring production to the U.S., promote our energy independence, support manufacturing jobs in the U.S. and further investments in domestic energy production."

A spokesperson for Sen. Susan Collins (ME) told Maine Morning Star that:

"Senator Collins supports clean energy and this issue is one of many the Senate is going to have to consider as it puts together its reconciliation bill."

Sen. John Curtis (UT) published an op-ed on June 4 in Utah's Deseret News, warning that full repeal of IRA energy credits would hurt America's strategic position.

In it, he called for careful consideration as the Senate writes its version:

"We simply cannot afford to treat good policy ideas as guilty by political association. That would be a quest for political power over intelligence and strategy... We must build a thoughtful, principled bill that doesn’t pull the rug out from under American innovators. Doing otherwise risks freezing investment, delaying domestic production, increasing costs, and forfeiting our energy edge and national security to China and Russia."

Curtis also emphasized energy security, saying:

"The U.S. must never depend on adversaries for our energy… We shouldn't just be energy independent, we should be energy dominant... What will truly unleash energy production isn't a new spending or deduction line, it's liberating American ingenuity from the shackles of Washington bureaucracy and unnecessary regulation... Doing otherwise risks freezing investment, delaying domestic production, increasing costs, and forfeiting our energy edge and national security to China and Russia."

It remains to be seen if any of these Senators will fight for clean energy policy when it matters most. As we saw with the House, 21 representatives signed a letter supporting the tax credits, but none of them voted for it when it counted.

New Jersey Storage Program Needs Overhaul

The Issue:

A new bill in New Jersey could allow four large transmission-connected projects to claim 1,000 out of 1,500 MW of planned storage incentives, leaving little for behind-the-meter and distributed battery storage installers.

Why it matters:

Behind-the-meter storage can be deployed much faster than transmission-scale projects. New Jersey's grid needs storage fast, so behind-the-meter battery installers must be incentivized as well as larger companies.

The ask:

The Mid-Atlantic Solar and Storage Industries Association (MSSIA) is asking companies that install behind-the-meter storage projects in New Jersey to provide data on their past and current battery projects.

They'll share this data with the state legislature to show the speed of deployment of behind-the-meter storage vs. transmission-scale projects.

Companies interested in submitting battery data can call 973-886-0526 or use MSSIA's contact form to find out more.

Pennsylvania's Solar For All Funding is Still Trapped in Legislative Limbo

What's new

Pennsylvania has already been awarded $156 million through the federal Solar for All program to help 14,000 low-income households go solar, but the money is stuck in legislation.

The state legislature added a clause to last year's budget requiring separate approval before the money can be used. A new bill (HB 362) would fix that, but it was amended with language that threatens Pennsylvania's net metering policy if passed.

Why it matters

This is money already awarded to Pennsylvanians. Lawmakers need to remove the amendment and pass the bill or another similar piece of legislation.

If they don't, the state could lose funds intended to cut electric bills and create clean energy jobs in rural and low-income areas as the Trump Administration tries to claw back funding.

Sources:

https://www.deseret.com/opinion/2025/06/04/tax-credits-us-energy-dominance-responsible-targeted-growth/

https://www.thecooldown.com/green-business/clean-energy-tax-credits-senate-repeal/

https://penncapital-star.com/energy-environment/solar-grants-held-hostage-in-pennsylvania-legislature-as-demand-soars/

https://www.alleghenyfront.org/amendment-to-pa-solar-bill-puts-industry-on-edge/

If cities and states cut solar permitting costs, families nationwide could save up to $1.2 trillion over 25 years.

Why it matters

Solar permits are a maze that change state to state and town to town. In a Heatmap article that came out yesterday, non-profit Permit Power released a new analysis showing that permitting reform could save Americans more than $1.2 Trillion over the next 25 years.

Many people listening who are interested in solar may have heard that rooftop solar is far more expensive in the U.S. than in Australia and Europe.

In the U.S., a typical 7-kW home system costs $28,000. In Australia, it’s about $4,000. In Germany, about $10,000 after a simple two-page form. That gap comes mostly from red tape, not hardware costs, which have fallen dramatically since the turn of the century.

Reform also opens the door for many more families. With faster, simpler rules lowering prices, 18.2 million more households could go solar. That means 198.1 GW of cleaner power for American homes and businesses.

Now that the solar industry is faced with an unfriendly federal administration, states are the battleground. Luckily, states have more power than we often think.

At the American Solar Energy Society conference this summer, one of the speakers mentioned that 70% of the locked-in carbon reduction in the U.S. since the turn of the century has come as a direct result of state and local action.

State and local elections are much easier to influence than national ones. If you’re on a local town board or city council, an easy way to lower permitting times and costs in your area is to encourage your jurisdiction to adopt SolarAPP+.

SolarAPP+ is an online permit tool that helps cities approve home solar and batteries faster. It was funded by the U.S. Department of Energy, first managed by NREL, and is now run by the SolarAPP Foundation. Built with building officials, inspectors, standards groups, and installers, it checks standard plans against code and flags issues right away.

This cuts paperwork and delays, lowers “soft costs,” and helps families get solar at a lower price.

We may not have power over what’s going on in D.C., but we have influence over what’s happening in our backyards.

If we fix the rules, solar gets cheaper, more people put it on their homes, and we all save money as a result. If you’re interested in a future with more solar energy, one of the most impactful things you can do is help cut red tape for solar installations in your area.

American Solar Shingle Manufacturer Goes Out of Business

The big idea:

Solar shingles cover a gap in the market for high-income homeowners who really care about aesthetics. They entered the market with a lot of fanfare, but selling them hasn’t proven easy.

SunTegra, a U.S. maker of solar shingles, is closing its doors after more than a decade due to tariffs, rule changes, and no easy access to cash.

Why it matters

Solar shingles give homes a cleaner roof look than normal solar panels. Rather than adding a bunch of panels, homeowners can add hundreds of small shingles that produce power while looking like regular roof tiles.

SunTegra started in 2014 with roof-integrated shingles and tiles. Their design overlapped just like shingles and used a special vent to keep the tiles cooler and increase the energy output.

Unfortunately, due to regulatory hurdles and trying to navigate tariffs, Suntegra had to close its doors, even though demand for shingles remained steady.

As someone who works for an installer, I can tell you that we love panels more than shingles. As cool as they look, shingles just have so much more that can go wrong. Imagine adding 300 potential failure points into a system rather than 20.

SunTegra is in the process of notifying installers and customers of its shutdown. A service line will stay to answer any questions people have in this transition.

Sources:

Tariffs, rampant industry hurdles force American solar manufacturer out of business

Simpler Solar Regulations Would Save Americans $1.2 Trillion

About SolarAPP+

As Cheap as Our Peers: How cutting red tape can lower the cost of rooftop solar and offset rising utility bills

Qcells is temporarily furloughing approximately 1,000 workers and reducing hours and pay at its Dalton and Cartersville, Georgia, factories due to repeated detentions of imported solar cells and other components by U.S. Customs and Border Protection.

Why it matters

Qcells has committed $2.5 billion to build a U.S. solar supply chain and is ramping American cell manufacturing, including a $2.3 billion Cartersville plant to make ingots, wafers, and cells (key components of solar panels). As of now, they import the cells from overseas factories and assemble them in the U.S.

Solar cells are ultra-thin slices of purified silicon that turn sunlight into electricity. Dozens of cells are wired together to make a solar panel. If you don’t have cells, you can’t make solar panels.

Qcells says some detained shipments have been released, but delays forced them to scale back production. The company expects to resume full production soon, and says furloughed employees will keep full benefits.

Reports say Qcells cells began being detained in June, under enforcement of the Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act. Qcells maintains that none of its materials come from China or Xinjiang.

South Korea Mandates Solar on Parking Lots

What’s new

South Korea became the latest country to mandate solar on parking lots. Starting Nov. 28, 2025, all public parking lots in the country larger than 1,000 square meters must add solar.

Why it matters

Parking lot solar is a win-win for everyone. It makes use of space that’s already paved and cannot be used for anything else, adds shade and weather cover for cars, and means that farmland and more natural spaces don’t need to be used to generate electricity with solar.

France passed a similar law earlier this year, requiring solar on all lots larger than 1500 square meters. Hopefully, the U.S. starts to follow suit. We have 2 billion parking spaces, which take up as much space as the entire country of Belgium. Covering a small fraction of that total in solar panels could make a dramatic difference in our power needs and improve the quality of life for millions of people.

Nextracker is Now Nextpower

What’s new

Nextracker, a publicly traded company that started as a tracker manufacturer (the racks on big utility-scale solar installations that follow the sun across the sky), is rebranding to Nextpower and shifting to a full, integrated energy tech platform.

Why it matters

Power demand is surging from AI/data centers, EVs, and building electrification. Solar can add the most new capacity fastest and at the lowest cost, but the new administration wants to see localized supply chains throughout the solar industry.

Nextpower aims to ease this headache for developers and be a one-stop provider of utility-scale solar from steel to software.

Sources

South Korean solar firm cuts pay and hours for Georgia workers as US officials detain imports - CBS Atlanta

Qcells furloughs 1,000 workers at US solar factories due to stalled shipments | Reuters

South Korea mandates solar systems at public parking lots from late November

Who Are The Winners in Parking Lot Solar Power?

Solar tracker giant Nextracker rebrands as Nextpower

Nextracker Rebrands as Nextpower to Reflect the Company’s Position as an Integrated Power Technology Innovator

According to a new report released by Grid Strategies on Tuesday, U.S. utilities now project that we’ll need 166 GW of extra peak demand by 2030, with roughly 90 GW (more than 54% ) tied to data centers. That’s a sixfold jump from energy forecasts made in 2022, meaning that we now need six times the energy we thought we would before generative AI hit the scene.

Why it matters:

Utilities are leaning on these aggressive load projections to greenlight huge spends on new power plants and grid upgrades nationwide.

Those projections are already hitting people’s wallets, and it’s only going to get worse.

In PJM’s region (the nation’s largest power market serving 67+ million people), capacity costs jumped from just $2.2B in 2023 up to $14.7B in 2024 and $16.1B in last summer’s auction, fueling anger in hard-hit states and helping candidates who promised lower bills win November’s elections in New Jersey and Virginia.

To meet the surge, many utilities are planning gigawatts of new gas-fired generation, which could raise costs even further, slow the shift to cleaner power, and add more pollution.

In Virginia, now the world’s largest data center hub, Dominion Energy is proposing multiple gigawatts of new gas.

Dominion says the plants are needed to meet demand, but critics point out that adding new gas would likely make it impossible for Virginia to meet their Renewable Energy Portfolio Standard goals, which are supposed to phase out fossil fuels in the state entirely by 2045.

In Georgia, Georgia Power is asking regulators to approve gigawatts of gas to meet load forecasts. But voters in November flipped two Public Service Commission seats to challengers who campaigned on reining in utility spending.

Texas, which is second only to Virginia for data centers, has seen forecasts nearly quadruple in a year. A new state law now requires new data centers to disconnect during peak grid stress. Regulators are still finalizing how that will work.

What’s true is that we need more power and we need it fast. Solar is the fastest way to add new power right now, and the best match for meeting this surging data-center demand.

Tesla Recalls 10,500 Powerwalls

What’s new:

According to the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission, Tesla is recalling about 10,500 Powerwall 2 Battery Power Systems in the U.S. after reports of overheating, smoke, and a handful of fires that caused minor property damage. The CPSC warns that the defect presents fire and burn hazards and a risk of serious injury or death.

Why it matters:

The recall, initiated on Nov. 13, cites a third-party lithium-ion cell defect that can cause units to fail and overheat during normal use. Thankfully, no injuries have been reported.

Affected units were sold nationwide via Tesla and certified installers from November 2020 through December 2022. Tesla says Powerwall 3 is not affected. Disabled units will be replaced at no cost.

Backup power will be unavailable to battery owners until replacements are installed, though rooftop solar generation can continue if customers have solar paired with storage.

Sources:

Data-center power forecasts climb to unreachable heights

Load Growth Forecast Reports

Tesla recalls over 10,000 batteries nationwide for risk of burn, injury or death

Tesla recalls 10,500 Powerwall 2 battery systems in US over fire risk

What’s new:The U.S. Department of Commerce finalized high tariffs on solar cells and panels from Cambodia, Malaysia, Thailand, and Vietnam.

* Cambodia was hit hardest: one group of companies faces a 3,521% total tariff.

* These tariffs target Chinese-owned and Chinese-backed manufacturers accused of bypassing existing tariffs by producing in Southeast Asia.

* The trade case is part of a long-running dispute that began in 2012, when U.S. manufacturers accused China of dumping solar panels into the American market.

What’s next:The U.S. International Trade Commission will decide by June 2 whether these imports are harming domestic manufacturers. If so, the tariffs take effect.

Why it matters:This could reshape solar supply chains and pricing, especially for utility-scale projects, and further pressure manufacturers to expand U.S.-based production.

Solar Policy Reform Sweeps The U.S.

What’s new:Nearly every U.S. state acted on solar policy in the first quarter of 2025, according to the latest 50 States of Solar report from the NC Clean Energy Technology Center.

* 193 policy actions were taken across 47 states, D.C., and Puerto Rico.

* Top focus areas: net metering, community solar, and residential fixed charges.

* States are increasingly moving beyond traditional net metering models and launching permanent community solar programs.

Why it matters:States are recognizing that community solar is a great option for helping low-income homeowners lower their utility bills, but may be moving away from Net Metering as an incentive to make solar more enticing.

New Jersey Expands Community Solar Program By 250 MW

What’s new:The New Jersey Board of Public Utilities opened another 250 MW in its Community Solar Energy Program, bringing the total to over 750 MW.

* 51% of new capacity must serve low- and moderate-income residents.

* 28,000+ subscribers have saved a combined $7 million since the pilot launched.

* Program updates include automatic enrollment, consolidated billing, and simplified eligibility.

What’s next:Registrations for new projects open April 30 and will be accepted on a rolling basis.

Why it matters:More and more states are expanding or creating community solar programs, acknowledging their potential to help low-income residents with ever-increasing power bills.

Helpful Articles to Learn More

Commerce reveals final tariff amounts on Southeast Asian solar imports

Can 3,500 Percent Tariffs Protect the U.S. Solar Industry?

NCCETC report: US busy with net metering, community solar policy in Q1

New Jersey expands community solar program by 250 MW

Ron has been working in renewable energy since the Carter administration, and brings four decades of solar experience to this episode (hard for Aaron to imagine, having just crossed the two-year mark).

Expect to Learn:

* Why Pennsylvania stalled while New Jersey went full steam ahead on clean energy goals.

* How net metering started in Pennsylvania

* The origins of Pennsylvania’s Alternative Energy Portfolio Standard, and what makes it different from traditional renewable portfolio standards.

Quotes from the Episode:

“We wrote net metering into the first deregulation tariff in Pennsylvania. Nobody thought people would ever overproduce back then.” – Ron Celantano

“Pennsylvania met its goals in 2021 — and then stopped. Meanwhile, every other state kept raising the bar.” – Ron Celantano

You can listen to this episode here, or on:

* YouTube

* Apple Podcasts

* Spotify

Transcript:

Aaron Nichols: Hello everyone, and welcome back to This Week in Solar. I’m your host, Aaron Nichols, the Research Policy Specialist here at XactSolar in Newtown, Pennsylvania. And today, we are interviewing Pennsylvania solar royalty. Ron Celantano has been doing this for as long as anyone can remember. Your name comes up all the time. Ron, welcome to the show, and please tell us a bit about yourself.

Ron Celantano: Yeah, I appreciate being here. Thank you very much. I usually start with how long I’ve been doing solar. I go back to a CETA job under the Carter administration in the late ’70s—a program that funded recent grads to work in their field. For me, that was solar. I started at Stockton State College in South Jersey for about a year, then moved into solar thermal installation work. When Reagan came in, everything fell apart, so I went to grad school for mechanical engineering (my bachelor’s was in physics). After that I worked in demand-side management in the early ’80s—energy efficiency programs and cost-effectiveness modeling for utilities (lighting, HVAC, cool storage, etc.), mostly through a consultant near Philadelphia, with many clients in California where EE was mandated. By the mid-’90s I refocused on photovoltaics, did my first PV project (steep learning curve; not much training material then—just panels, batteries, figure it out). At the same time I got into policy, learned about net metering (shoutout to Tom Starrs at IREC), and watched Pennsylvania deregulate (’98–’99). I helped spearhead getting net metering into PICO’s first deregulation tariff—drafting language so customers got full value credited. Back then solar was expensive and rates weren’t high, so “oversizing” was rare. As deregulation spread, we later got a net metering law as part of the Alternative Energy Portfolio Standards (AEPS). I was involved in shaping the framework and especially the in-state solar carve-out percentages. PA called it “alternative” (Tier I and Tier II) rather than just “renewable,” which brought in some odd resources—but Tier II did include energy efficiency, which was good.

Aaron Nichols: For anyone without context, why has Pennsylvania been so difficult for renewables compared to neighbors like New Jersey?

Ron Celantano: We were actually near the front in 2004 when AEPS passed, but we didn’t keep updating it, while New Jersey kept ratcheting up. Our Tier I target was 8% renewables with just 0.5% in-state solar; Tier II was 10% of alternative resources. We met those goals by 2021 and stopped—meanwhile other states kept climbing. Even so, PA solar kept growing; we’re approaching ~2 GW, about half of New Jersey despite PA’s lower population density and more land. NJ sometimes hits 50% solar on certain days; PA is roughly ~2% today. Resistance here stems from being a gas-driven state (Marcellus fracking) with many legislators prioritizing gas. Even with Democratic governors (Wolf, now Shapiro) it’s been hard to pass bigger updates. Our community has drafted bills (through PA Solar Center and PASSA under MAREA/Mid-Atlantic Solar & Storage) to strengthen AEPS, but success has been limited. One win was “closing the borders” roughly seven years ago so the 0.5% solar carve-out had to come from in-state rather than anywhere in PJM/D.C.—Republicans liked the “don’t subsidize out-of-state” logic. By 2021, that 0.5% was essentially in-state.

Aaron Nichols: Let’s unpack SRECs quickly for listeners and how PA handles penalties versus NJ.

Ron Celantano: SRECs—solar renewable energy credits—are the “green attributes” your system generates alongside kWh that lower your bill. In PA, utilities (or default suppliers) must buy credits equal to a percentage of their supply; owners typically sell via aggregators. Historically our Alternative Compliance Payment (ACP) penalty for solar was tied to 200% of the historical weighted SREC price. If a utility chooses not to buy when there is adequate supply, they pay that penalty. If there isn’t enough supply, PA ratepayers aren’t dinged to make up the gap—unlike some other states—so that’s a positive quirk. Prices have swung wildly: early 2010s saw $300–$600 equivalent signals, then the Sunshine Program (~2011–2014) injected $100M, we overshot, money ran out, saturation hit, and SRECs crashed to ~$5 before slowly recovering. Today PA SRECs are relatively low (recently ~$25 and even ~$40 at points last year) despite oversupply—puzzling, but that’s where we are. NJ, by contrast, uses fixed SREC/Successor incentive values for set terms, which makes investment planning much easier. Clear goals and clear penalties matter; newer PA bills proposed hard-dollar penalties to create pricing transparency, moving away from purely historical formulas.

Aaron Nichols: Rate pressure also matters for homeowners. PJM capacity prices are rising again, which usually flows through to bills. Regardless of incentives, that helps the solar economics, right?

Ron Celantano: Yes. We’ve got a lot of moving parts—federal tax changes, FEOC/supply-chain rules, domestic-content adders—some headwinds, some tailwinds. But retail rates will keep drifting up (data centers, electrification, transmission constraints), which supports solar’s bill-savings case and stabilizes part of your bill for 20+ years. I even encourage modest oversizing if you can—future EV charging shifts “fuel” to PV at a much lower effective cost than buying gasoline. Think of it like buying decades of power in bulk at today’s price.

Aaron Nichols: I entered the industry in late 2023—rosy IR-era vibes at first, then a rough policy cycle. As the baton passes to my generation, how do we keep the energy to push when it feels like bashing our heads against a rock?

Ron Celantano: There are many lanes: policy (often unpaid), and the day-job side—consulting, design, commissioning, installation. Cycles come and go; we’ll dip and then climb. Downcycles can be ideal for sharpening skills with less crowding. One silver lining: without easy money, the customers who stick around tend to be great to work with (like the early 2000s—motivated by reliability, resilience, values). Another: the shakeout can sideline bad actors and scammers who left half-finished projects and unfiled interconnections—rebuilding trust helps the good firms. Residential will feel the near-term hit hardest; commercial follows. In the interim, rising rates ironically “help” the savings math. Electrification will raise consumption, so pairing it with solar is key. My advice: hang in, skill up, collaborate. I team regularly with groups like PA Solar Center (e.g., Sharon Pillar) and PennEnvironment/PASEIA allies—coalition work matters because we each bring different strengths.

Aaron Nichols: Quick bright spot—Solar for Schools. What’s happening there?

Ron Celantano: A real win. Last year we got a $25M “Solar for Schools” program through—our first significant pass in seven years. The agency had to stand it up in record time (about two months). We provided guidance; I did some assessments (separate from bidding, per rules). Roughly 74 districts were awarded funds. With elective pay still available for tax-exempt entities, schools can stack 30% ITC (subject to FEOC/domestic content issues) plus state support—effectively bringing net costs way down in many cases. There’s nervousness about federal timelines and component sourcing, but overall it’s a great opportunity.

Aaron Nichols: Bringing it home: what should installers and industry folks do in a leaner, post-incentive world to keep moving the ball?

Ron Celantano: Focus on quality, trust, and fundamentals—tight interconnection work, realistic designs, solid O&M. As the hype fades, durable businesses stand out. Residential will be choppy first; commercial later. We won’t root for higher rates, but those increases are coming and they will sustain the value proposition. Electrification without solar just raises bills; with solar it’s manageable. Don’t abandon ship—this will swing back. Be patient and position yourself for the upcycle.

Aaron Nichols: Final “moonshot” I ask every guest. My grandma turned 80 this year—born just after Rural Electrification. Solar PV wasn’t invented until 1954; Carter put solar thermal on the White House in ’79; most progress has happened in just the last 25 years. What does clean energy look like 80 years from now?

Ron Celantano: Solar will be dominant, but probably not exactly in today’s form. We’ll evolve in how we harvest and convert sunlight, and we’ll tap more geothermal electricity—leveraging deep drilling tech from fracking to reach high-temperature resources. Efficiency will keep cutting loads. “Paintable” thin-film concepts have existed for years (terrible efficiency historically, but massive surface area changes the calculus); if commercialized at scale, coverage could matter more than peak efficiency. The point is: cheaper conversion, ubiquitous collection, and smarter use. It’s hard to predict 80 years out—maybe we’re on Mars—but solar’s vast resource and falling costs make its long-term dominance inevitable.

Aaron Nichols: Ron, thank you so much. Where can people find you?

Ron Celantano: I’m based in Wyndmoor, just outside Philadelphia. Email: CELENTANOR@AOL.COM. Cell: 215-740-0439. I’m around—happy to help.

After realizing there was no central hub for clean energy marketers, Jacob launched Amp Your Story to unite the global community.

He is on a mission to bridge the gap between technical expertise and world-class storytelling, and already has members on four continents.

Connect with Jacob on LinkedIn here.

Listen to this episode on:

* YouTube

* Apple Podcasts

* Spotify

Expect to learn:

* How the clean energy industry’s “branding problem” (being 90% focused on technology and only 10% on brand) is hurting us, where it came from, and how we fix it.

* Why Jacob took a leap of faith to create a global community for clean energy marketers.

* Jacob’s “LinkedIn Hierarchy of Value” anyone can use to build an exponentially growing, targeted network.

Quotes from the episode:

“We don’t need to be good at everything, but we need a place to have support for the strengths that we don’t have.” — Jacob Yang

“How do we take the best of the best in the world and incorporate that into our industry so we work better as an entire sector together?” — Jacob Yang

Transcript:

Aaron Nichols: Jacob, why do you feel called to unite clean energy marketers?

Jacob Yang: I really wanted to be part of a group that did exactly that and when I did my due diligence and went online, looked for the opportunities. There just wasn’t anything out there that really aligned with what I was looking for. And so I put the feelers out. I asked my own community: “If I put this group together, what would you think?” and the amount of responses that were positive were overwhelming. And so I took a leap of faith and I created Amp Your Story to provide clean energy marketers with tools, resources, and community at a global scale to help them out.

Aaron Nichols: So it was one of those cases of just what you wanted didn’t exist so you made it.

Jacob Yang: 100%. Yeah.

Aaron Nichols: That’s—yeah. And I mean I can attest to the awesomeness of it. I’ve been to a couple coffee chats and a couple speaker series now and it’s a wonderful group. And you’re really curating some awesomeness there.

Jacob Yang: I appreciate that. Thanks. Yeah.

Aaron Nichols: So would you like to introduce yourself and talk a bit about Amp Your Story?

Jacob Yang: Absolutely. So I am the founder and CEO of Amp Your Story. Again, it’s the online global clean energy marketing community. Currently, we have 74 members across four continents, and we have a committee as well with 10 individuals—11 including myself.

We really focus on two main verticals. So you think on the left hand, you’ve got clean energy facets of solar, wind, and BEST (Battery Energy Storage Systems) which are very common and predominant in the industry, but you also think about geothermal, nuclear, and other facets. And then on the right hand is all the functions of marketing.

And so going back to the committee, one of the reasons I realized I needed one was because I have some strong strengths in marketing, but as you know, none of us could do it all. And so I needed people from public relations and comms, design, content marketing, and event activation to help bridge that gap. So when people come to the community, they feel like they have a source of truth that they can rely on. And it’s not even that we always have the answer, but we’re willing to go that extra step to help people find the sources they’re looking for.

And that ranges from everything from revenue attribution tools, which is a constant struggle in marketing, to “how do I elevate my conversations to people who are constant blockers,” like the Chief Financial Officer or the Chief Operating Officer. That’s a constant struggle, I think, on the marketing side—to flip the script from a cost center to a “must-have” and a revenue generator.

And then in clean energy, you know, there’s people that come in who have great marketing skills—they might have been on the oil and gas side and then felt like “this doesn’t really align with what I’m trying to do long-term”—or it just might be that they want to get into clean energy as a whole, or they just are a bit newer to the concept. So they might be three weeks into their role, three months in, and they need something to guide them more than just the marketing tasks they do on a daily basis.

Aaron Nichols: Well, for anyone who’s listening, welcome back to This Week in Solar. As always, I’m your host, Aaron Nichols, the Research and Policy Specialist here at Exact Solar in Newtown, Pennsylvania. Our guest today is Jacob Yang; as he mentioned, he’s the founder and CEO of Amp Your Story. He’s also blowing up on LinkedIn right now, and he’s doing a great job of just unifying clean energy marketers, which I think is awesome. As you mentioned in your answer before, none of us can do it all. For example, I am one of the world’s most incompetent graphic designers. Very bad at it. I’m interested, what is the thing that isn’t in your marketing skill set?

Jacob Yang: You know, as many compliments as I’ve gotten on the logo and the branding of Amp Your Story, I will say I had a little support. I reached out to a contractor and I said, “Hey look, I’m creating something that has to be world-class. I’ll pay you that top dollar, I just want it to be the best possible experience.” So when I go into the experts who do this for a living, they can be like, “Oh, this is legit. I like this. I resonate with this.”

And so I think it really comes back to: we don’t need to be good at everything, but we need a place to have support for the strengths that we don’t have. And I think that example resonates because everything above the branding, I gave a lot of thought to. It was like, what are the colors that so many solar EPCs and developers use?

Aaron Nichols: Oh yeah, what’s their branding? It’s like orange. It’s really funny. Because ours are blue and yellow.

Jacob Yang: Yeah, and so it’s these like recurring themes that you see and I want it to be relatable. And it was even like the font, we’re doing Montserrat. I wanted something to feel bold and impressive and really stand against the status quo of “we’ve never had this, we’ve always wanted it, and now it’s here.”

Aaron Nichols: That’s so beautiful man, it’s wonderful to hear that you put that level of thought into it and to understand that that’s what was going on behind the scenes, because obviously I only see the front end and I didn’t know that story till now. I know that you are in the process of becoming a top 1% LinkedIn expert, and you have advised a lot of clean energy companies on how they can do better on LinkedIn. So what’s one glaring thing that you think a lot of clean energy companies miss about LinkedIn as a platform? Where do you think they leave money on the table? Like, what do you walk in day one and say “here’s what you can do better” normally?

Jacob Yang: The beautiful thing about LinkedIn is every touch point in a company—every employee, in some capacity—is most likely using the platform. So, the first thing that I talk about is not even the growth hacks—and I get into those too, you know, like how do you save money and drive half a million ad views from a hundred bucks and all those fun things. But it’s like, if you’re spending every morning on LinkedIn as an executive, what are the functions you do? If you’re scrolling and you’re clicking on these posts and you’re just doing a “like,” that probably has the least amount of weight on the level of engagement you bring to the people in your network.

And so one of the things I walk them through was like, okay, it’s likes and comments, then reposts and original content. And that’s kind of the wheel I use to guide them from least valuable to most valuable. And even small crevices, like the difference between liking a post and finding it insightful, right? You’ve got a post that’s got 10 individuals who have liked it and you only see blue, and you want to stand out to the crowd? You put the yellow and insightful emoji to that as opposed to a like. It’s small details that add up in accumulation over six months where all of a sudden people are like, “Okay, they’re finally seeing my content,” instead of just feeling like “I think I’m doing it right but I’m not really sure.”

Aaron Nichols: That’s about how long it took for me when I started writing on the platform; it was about six months before anyone noticed. So I think that is a very important piece to hit on for anyone who does want to create content on LinkedIn—it’s a slow grind in the beginning but it’s an exponential growth factor a few months or years in. I think it’s beautiful that you hit on that point that everyone in your company is probably already using it as well, because it might be the only platform that’s true of, because everybody puts their resume on at some point. So almost everybody has created an account, and you would really just have to go back through the team and have everybody turn on creator mode, rather than them having to go back and learn how to post on Facebook or create a whole Instagram account. It’s already there. Work history is already there.

Jacob Yang: 100%. And I think it’s just looking at it with a critical eye. Like, there’s no key piece that I can say was what got me to be successful on LinkedIn; it was an accumulation. I audited my entire network. You know, I had, I think, two or 3,000 followers. Not a lot of connections, and I audited them all and with the exceptions of close colleagues and friends, I knew I wanted that space and capacity to be for clean energy marketers. I wanted to make sure—whether it was one person, ten, a hundred or a thousand—that the right people are seeing my content. And so it’s the same when you’re an executive or your marketer or your salesperson and you just get into the industry and you start posting industry content. If you’ve got two clean energy connections and 498 connections have nothing to do with clean energy, you’re almost posting into the void there. And it’s synonymous with when people post on their LinkedIn page and they’re like, “Okay, we’ll just post three times a week and we’re certain that our prospects will see our content.” And unfortunately, that’s not always the case. If you build it, they don’t always come, sadly.

Aaron Nichols: Yeah. Another thing a lot of people don’t realize hurts them is unaccepted connection requests. You have got to go clean those out from time to time because if they just sit there, you start looking more and more needy and unpopular to the algorithm. In a recent LinkedIn post, you made the claim that the clean energy industry as a whole has a branding problem, so I would love to hear you expand on that and explain what you think is needed to get us to where we don’t have a branding problem.

Jacob Yang: That quoted Rob Contrell from Atlantic Energy on the Charge podcast. And what he was saying was that he worked in telecommunications, and when he was in telecoms, they were 90% branding and 10% technology. And when he transitioned to energy, he realized it was the opposite: 10% brand and 90% technology. And so I think what you find, more particularly with some of those companies that maybe just have a bit more traditional processes on their operations to the marketing as well, is that there isn’t a certain level of sophistication that there might be with companies in Silicon Valley or these savvy B2B tech startups that you can get in any sector—they just have to be so agile, they have to be so quick, they have limited resources.

Part of it with the branding is speed—like, how quickly can I elevate my branding—but also, am I pulling in outside resources? So I would love to say that every marketer I’ve learned from is in clean energy, but the truth is very much so the opposite. Like, I find a lot of resources and I try and portray that into our community. A great example is there’s this book by this individual who understands how to build like an unforgettable logo. He breaks down the actual process of building a logo. And I read his book and he actually lives 30 minutes from my place. He’s an incredible guy and I hope to meet him someday. But I never knew that; I never met anyone in the industry who knew that. And so I think part of this community is: how do we take the best of the best in the world and incorporate that into our industry so we start better as an entire sector together?

Aaron Nichols: Sure. I think historically, it hasn’t been a need as well. I mean, energy is undergoing a revolution right now, obviously. But the standard for marketing and branding was set by utilities for the longest time. And they were regional monopolies. You had to have their product. You didn’t have any choice if you bought from them or not, so they had no need for branding. But now, energy is in an arms race, and there are people making choices between forms of energy, so branding and storytelling matter a lot more. When you imagine Amp Your Story, let’s say five or ten years from now, what’s your dream scenario?

Jacob Yang: I’m going to preface with: I don’t like to over-promise and under-deliver as a person, but I would love to reach every clean energy marketer in the world, and I will say there’s a lot of them. Like, everyone thinks we’re not that big. I am telling you, the list that I keep working through keeps growing and I can’t keep up with the same pace. I would love to have an event for clean energy marketers in every continent every year. That would be my dream—to meet people from all over the world and do what I’m doing just in an in-person capacity.

Aaron Nichols: That’s a beautiful vision. I’m really excited for the African one. That’s the only continent I haven’t been on yet—I mean, other than Antarctica—and so I would love to go. To bring it home, Jacob, I ask everyone who comes on to the show the same closing question. And it has to do with the fact that a few months ago, I spoke at my grandma’s 80th birthday party, which was a huge honor for me. And in the course of writing that speech and then writing a post about it afterwards, I realized that if she’s 80 years old, she was born into a world where what we now think of as clean energy didn’t exist.

She was born, I think, 12 years after the Rural Electrification Act, so her region in Missouri where she was born had just gotten electricity for the first time ever. The only way we knew how to generate electricity was to go find things, dig them up, burn them, and send the electricity out. Solar PV wasn’t even invented until 1954. And then, you know, the technology wasn’t iterated on for a while—I mean, when Jimmy Carter put solar panels on the White House in 1979, that was solar thermal. And then you have the turn of the millennium, and the price of solar and batteries just falls and falls and falls until now it’s the cheapest form of energy. All of that happened within her 80-year lifetime.

So, if you’re just going to moonshot and make a wild prediction—and don’t worry, no one can hold us to it, we’ll both be dead—we’re talking about 80 years from now. What do you think clean energy looks like in 80 years?

Jacob Yang: A functional cohabitat with the environment. I think one of the biggest fears is that we lean heavily on the technology—and there’s great companies that pull in the environment aspect as well—but I think that’s not always the case with the rapidly deploying technology where there’s a lot of opportunity in business. So I think it’s important to acknowledge solar and wind, but also continue to advocate for the blue economy, blue tech, offshore wind. Ideally, I would hope that the wildlife and the level of species has increased, as opposed to the opposite.

Aaron Nichols: I would too. I mean, that’s one of my biggest issues with solar technology—that utility-scale installations do take up a large amount of space. There’s really no way around that right now. And if I had my way, we would cover every parking lot and every warehouse we’ve ever built with solar panels before we ever put it on natural space. But, you know, I’m not completely in charge.

Jacob Yang: Yeah, no worries. And you know, I also advocate for people who are leaning into floatable photovoltaics—I think of D3 Energy, I think they’re on the forefront of that in the US—and also people who are looking at Brownfield redevelopment, taking a site that would essentially be useless. Does it bring any value to wildlife or humans? If not, let’s turn it into what they call “Pride Fields.” So that resonated with me quite a bit. It’s like, okay, if this is useless anyway, let’s turn it into something valuable.

Aaron Nichols: I fully agree. So Jacob, where can you be found if you do indeed want to be found? How can people get in touch with you?

Jacob Yang: Yeah, they can find me on my LinkedIn. It’s probably the best way. I do a weekly job roundup for clean energy marketing roles on Mondays normally. And it’s Jacob Won Carlos Yang—so if we haven’t met, feel free to say hi.

Aaron Nichols: Thanks so much for coming on today, Jacob.

Jacob Yang: Yeah, I appreciate it.

Aaron Nichols: And for everyone listening, that’s been This Week in Solar and we will talk to you next week.

Happy Halloween from Exact Solar! I’m interested to hear how you’ll be celebrating in the comments. I’ll personally be officiating my friend’s wedding in Oaxaca, Mexico.

What’s new

YEAH Philly, a youth empowerment nonprofit in Philadelphia, just switched on a 12-kW rooftop solar array that will cover 100% of its electricity needs.

The project was funded through a RE-volv partnership with Good Energy Collaborative and GreenBrilliance, boosted by a Changemaker Program grant from Billie Eilish and REVERB, with support from the Solar Moonshot Program.

Why it matters

Anytime a nonprofit goes solar, they free up budget to spend on the things that actually matter, instead of ever-rising energy bills.

Now, YEAH Philly has more money for their core mission: supporting youth with jobs, advocacy, and community care.

YEAH celebrated their new solar energy system with music, food, a local resource fair, and a ribbon-cutting.

Kendra Van De Water, YEAH Philly’s co-executive Director, had this to say:

“Solar energy is the future for nonprofits, not just because of the cost savings, but because this is a way for us to invest in our communities.”

If you or someone you know works for a non-profit in the Philadelphia area, get in touch with us at Exact Solar! We love building projects with social impact.

New Jersey Expands Commercial Building Program to Make Adding Solar Easier

What’s new

New Jersey greenlit RETROFIT NJ, a grant program that helps bankroll building upgrades, including solar plus batteries.

Why it matters

Awards range from $2.5 million to $12.5 million for projects costing at least $5 million and bundling three or more clean-energy measures. Grant funds will cover design through commissioning.

Nonprofits and tax-exempt institutions can get up to 60% of the cost of these upgrades reimbursed; commercial owners up to 50%.

Applications will open in the first few months of 2026 and will be accepted on a rolling basis. If you’re a commercial building owner in New Jersey, please contact us, and we’ll get the process started!

Solar is The U.S.’s Top Renewable Energy Source

What’s new

EIA’s latest Electric Power Monthly report (through August 31, 2025) shows solar is now the top renewable electricity source in the U.S. Wind+solar provided 19.1% of U.S. power in the first eight months of 2025, exceeding coal by 16.2% and nuclear by 11.7%, while renewables overall climbed to 26.1% of generation.

Why it matters

Storage additions are accelerating, natural gas output edged down, and coal capacity continues to retire. Cleaner, more flexible resources are scaling and increasingly setting the pace for reliability and long-term cost control.

Solar is now financially “too good to say no to,” and we’re deploying it at record speed.

Sources:

Billie Eilish grant program makes solar project possible for West Philadelphia youth organization

Billie Eilish grant program makes solar project possible for West Philadelphia youth organization - Energy News

YEAH Philly

New Jersey expands building retrofit grant program to cover solar + storage upgrades

Solar beats wind, hydro for top renewable electricity source in US

Electric Power Monthly - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

At the American Solar Energy Society’s conference last summer, one of the speakers mentioned that 70% of the carbon reduction we’ve seen since the turn of the century from deploying clean energy has come as a direct result of state and local policy.

That means that federal policy isn’t nearly as important as we think it is, and that we have more power than we think.

It’s easy to feel helpless when we look at national news, but it’s an illusion. State and local policy is a lot easier to influence than federal policy, and often has a greater impact.

I wanted to spend today’s episode talking about the states that are stepping in to offer solar incentives as the government phases out federal ones.

We’re starting with New Jersey since we install there at Exact Solar, but make sure you still till the end to see what other states are taking action.

What’s new:

New Jersey Governor Phil Murphy has signed “smart solar” legislation (S4100/A5264), mandating the creation of a statewide, automated permitting platform for residential solar and battery systems.

Here’s what you need to know:

* The Department of Community Affairs must launch the system within 18 months, allowing code-compliant projects to bypass red tape and receive “near-instant approval.”

* Implementation will be overseen by the incoming administration of Governor-elect Mikie Sherrill.

* Municipalities can only opt out if they prove they already have a comparable automated system in place.

Why it matters:

This new system in New Jersey is aimed at tackling a specific “soft cost” that plagues the industry nationwide. New Jersey currently has the third-slowest solar permitting timelines in the U.S.

Permitting hurdles add $3,800 to $4,500 to a typical installation in NJ and cause nearly 20% of projects to be canceled before construction begins. Experts estimate this single fix could help add 200,000 additional solar installations by 2040.

Go deeper:

While NJ tackles permitting, other states are passing different policies:

* Colorado: Governor Jared Polis has directed state agencies to “prioritize expeditious review” of renewable facilities to lock in tax credits before they expire in 2027. Colorado is also rolling out a home energy rebate program aimed at electrifying homes.

* California: The legislature passed bills (like S.B. 302 and A.B. 1408) to integrate interconnection into transmission planning and fight back against interconnection queues that often stretch to as long as five years.

* Maine: Regulators recently fast-tracked proposals to bring enough new renewable energy online to power 13% of the state’s annual usage.

* New York: The state introduced standards prohibiting gas and fossil fuels in most new buildings and is reviewing budget laws to accelerate renewable deployment.

Waste Management Is Putting Solar On Old Dump Sites

What’s new:

Waste Management (WM) and Reactivate have announced a nationwide partnership to transform up to 50 former landfills into solar energy and storage sites.

Reactivate, an Invenergy company, will develop, construct, own, and operate solar projects on at least 50 of WM’s closed landfill sites across North America.

* The planned projects include community solar, small utility-scale solar, and energy storage projects.

* Reactivate expects to complete the first phase of projects by late 2027.

Why it matters:

Former landfills are often “dead zones” that cannot support new development. By leasing these difficult-to-develop parcels to Reactivate, WM can do something with land that would otherwise be useless.

Sources:

States work to speed renewable deployment before ITC deadline

States Take Action on Renewable Energy After OBBBA Curtails Tax Incentives | Novogradac

NJ governor signs bill to speed up residential solar permitting

Smart solar permitting bill passes New Jersey legislature

WM will build solar on at least 50 former landfills

Reactivate and WM Collaborate Nationwide to Convert Up to 50+ Landfills into Solar Energy Sites

New Jersey just elected Mikie Sherrill as governor. During her campaign, she promised to use clean energy to lower bills and strengthen the grid.

Her plan promises to use executive orders to freeze utility rates while New Jersey builds more solar and battery storage, with faster grid upgrades to handle growing demand.

Why it matters

A pro-solar governor in Trenton means more rooftop and community solar, more storage to keep lights on during peaks, and steadier bills as cheap sun power replaces pricier fuels.

New Jersey faces rising electricity needs and an aging grid. Sherrill has signaled she’ll work with the legislature and regional partners to speed up permitting and avoid spending on outdated solutions.

Virginia’s Governor-elect Abigail Spanberger also won on a clean-energy message, promising lower bills, a stronger grid, and support for offshore wind after recent federal blockades.

In Georgia, voters who endured six rate hikes in recent years ousted incumbent Public Service Commissioners and elected Peter Hubbard and Dr. Alicia Johnson. Both campaigned on lowering bills and expanding clean energy, signaling a pro-solar shift in the commission that oversees Georgia Power and grid planning. It’s the first time since 2006 that incumbents have lost PSC races.

These results show that leaders who tie clean power to affordability and reliability are being rewarded. Voters frustrated with high bills are backing leaders who promise to add local solar and storage.

The U.S. Now Has a Domestic Solar Supply Chain

What’s new

The Solar Energy Industries Association (SEIA) says the U.S. now has a full domestic solar supply chain. The last missing link (ingots and wafers for solar cells) just came online with Corning’s new Michigan factory.

Why it matters

A made-in-America solar chain cuts supply risk, shortens lead times, and keeps more jobs and investment at home. It also protects from tariffs and trade shocks, and helps stabilize costs as demand climbs.

But SEIA warns that momentum isn’t guaranteed. Policy whiplash and trade crackdowns could slow down new factories and raise costs. Clear policy is key to keeping this manufacturing surge on track.

Half of All Planned U.S. Power At Risk

What’s new

SEIA also warns that politics are putting half of all planned new U.S. power at risk through 2030, nearly 116 GW across nearly 500 solar and storage projects.

Their review of EIA data flags 73 GW of solar and 43 GW of storage that still lack full permits and could be targeted by new federal reviews.

Why it matters

These projects span 44 states, with enough planned capacity to power ~16 million homes. SEIA says a growing federal permitting maze is stalling projects even on private land, after they’ve cleared local zoning and environmental steps.

Power demand is spiking from AI, data centers, and new factories. If we don’t continue to deploy solar power fast, customers will continue to face higher energy prices as our grid continues to age.

SEIA encourages anyone who wants to help ensure better solar regulation to go to SolarPowersAmerica.org to contact representatives and sign petitions.

Sources:

Clean energy candidates win Virginia and New Jersey elections

Green Groups’ Election Takeaway: Focus on Trump Energy Agenda Costs - Inside Climate News

The Entire Solar Supply Chain Has Now Been Reshored in The US

US has onshored full solar supply chain: SEIA | Utility Dive

American Energy Under Threat: Political Attacks Threaten Half of All Planned Power in the U.S.

In this episode, Aaron sits down with Kristina Zagame, Senior Content Producer at EnergySage and host of Plugged In.

Kristina opens up about the power of personal storytelling, why solar is fundamentally an American value, and how the industry can recover from the “solar is dead” panic of last year.

You can listen to this episode here, or on:

* YouTube

* Apple Podcasts

* Spotify

Connect with Kristina on LinkedIn here.

Expect to Learn:

* Why many companies are moving away from faceless branding and empowering employees to build personal brands.

* How focusing on a single human story (like the “neighbor test”) drives action.

* Tips for bridging the political divide (framing solar not as a tool for personal freedom).

Quotes:

"I've always considered myself a storyteller. The core of what I do is tell stories and give people answers."

- Kristina Zagame

"Fundamentally, we don't really trust brands or companies the way that maybe we once did. I think it's more important to have faces that people can resonate with."

- Kristina Zagame

Transcript:

Aaron Nichols: Kristina, over the last year, you’ve become one of the most successful representations of what I like to call the “in-house influencer.” I think a lot of people would call that a thought leader nowadays as well. And I think you have a very unique perspective on this since you’ve spent so long working in media. Why do you think so many companies are now putting faces behind their names in new ways?

Kristina Zagame: Okay, well first of all, thank you so much for saying all of that. I had no idea I was so influential.

Aaron Nichols: I’m still stoked you’re here. You do.

Kristina Zagame: Oh, well, thank you. I’m a huge fan of yours as well. And yeah, honestly, I think so... of course, yeah, I have a background in media. When I actually got hired into EnergySage, it had nothing to do with being on camera or doing any sort of video or influencer, or thought leader, anything. I really was just hired on as a writer.

I’ve had experience in journalism. I’ve had on-camera stuff. And during my interviews, when I would bring up my background, a lot of people would say, “Oh, you know, we’ve always had this idea to do more videos. We’ve always had this idea to do a show.” And they kind of pitched what is now Plugged In to me.

And I said, “If you hire me, I can make that happen.” Like, I was very much like, “Oh, great. I can do all of those things. You need to edit it? Cool. You need me to produce it? Cool. You need me to do this? Cool. Like, I got you.” So I think that was maybe part of the reason why I ended up getting the job. They’re all really excited about that.

Aaron Nichols: That’s my exact trajectory at Exact Solar. Yeah. Same thing. Hard to be right here. Yeah. I think all the best roles come from starting as a writer.

Kristina Zagame: But yeah, I think, honestly, companies realize... well, I think fundamentally we don’t really trust brands or companies the way that maybe we once did. At least for most people, you see most products are now being sold by influencers. Because if, you know, this company, if ABC tells me they have the best bubble gum on the market, I’m not going to trust them. But if my favorite YouTuber is saying, “I only chew ABC gum,”—which I just realized has already been chewed, so that’s gross—but anyway, if my favorite person is selling me, I’m way more likely to trust it versus the brand.

And I think that translates really well into what we do, too. You know, we can work for great companies. I love EnergySage as a company. Ethically, morally, they align with what I believe in. But a lot of people, you know, they see the bottom line. They see it as a business at the end of the day. It is a business. So I think it’s more important to have faces that people can resonate with. They trust... they say, “You know, Kristina has this background in journalism.”

It has always been my professional duty to try to be as unbiased as possible. Of course, I have bias in that, you know, I support clean energy and I think it’s truly great—although I feel like that’s not really a bias, it’s fact, but I’m sure we’ll get more into that. But, you know, I think people see me and know that it does not affect my bottom line whether they buy into what I’m saying or not. It’s really just me telling them what I’ve researched, what I know to be true, what I’ve learned through my learnings and interviews and talking to people.

So, I think that’s why this—and I hate the term influencer, but that is so—so I think that’s why influencer culture has become what it is now.

Aaron Nichols: Thought leader is the new influencer. Thought leader is going to be as cringy in a year, but yes. That’ll be your song a lot nicer at the moment.

I think I’m interested—and you can confirm or deny this as you see fit since you have a lot more experience in this area than I do—but it seems like it’s smart for companies to build in-house channels just for the simple reason that earned media doesn’t have the effect that it used to as well.

Kristina Zagame: Yeah, I think so. It’s interesting. One of the people who I interviewed for an episode of Plugged In is a YouTuber. I’ve interviewed a lot of YouTubers. They have their own name, their own channel. They’re not affiliated with any one company. They sort of gave me a piece of advice, a warning of, “You know, if you are just EnergySage, people aren’t going to subscribe or interact or be as engaged with instead of just being, ‘I’m Kristina Zagame.’”

And that was really early on. And I did, I took a little bit of the feedback only to my team to say, “Hey, I don’t think I should post on my own account.” Like, I obviously still work for this company, we’re coming to people from EnergySage. And I think EnergySage is in a unique position because we are completely free for the consumer. So people don’t feel as much like we’re trying to sell to them because it’s a completely free service for them to use.

But I did take that in trying to make myself more personable in my writing. I use a lot of “I” instead of “we,” just because I think that it is, again, so important for people to really connect with the person rather than the brand. So I’m not really sure if that answers your question.

Aaron Nichols: No, it certainly does. I just published an article on storytelling, and I dropped this line on the latest SunCast episode I was on to a good laugh, but I think no one wakes up and says, “I wonder what Bank of America is up to today?”

Kristina Zagame: That’s cool. Yeah. Yeah.

Aaron Nichols: You’re interested in people. You’re interested in journey.

Well, for anyone listening, welcome back to This Week in Solar. I’m your host, Aaron Nichols, the Storytelling and Policy Specialist here at Exact Solar in Newtown, Pennsylvania. And my guest today is Kristina Zagame.

Kristina, would you just briefly introduce yourself now that we’ve launched in and talk about your day-to-day life as the Senior Content Producer at EnergySage? Or is it Senior Content Producer 2? Did I get that?

Kristina Zagame: Yes, that just means I leveled up, right, in my career.

Aaron Nichols: Oh, okay. It’s good content to see.

Kristina Zagame: Yeah. No, although it often feels like... Senior Content Producer, Senior Content Researcher, whatever you want to call me.

My day-to-day really isn’t very glamorous. It’s a lot of time of me spent staring at my computer screen, reading a lot of research, reading a lot of thought leader posts on LinkedIn, trying to just get a pulse on what people are talking about in regards to energy, clean energy, any sort of home electrification topics.

And then, in regards to Plugged In, it’s a lot of reaching out, networking, talking to different influencers, researchers, scientists, you name it to get them onto the show to bring their expertise to our consumers.

But ultimately I think my job, like if I were to really pare it down, I’ve always considered myself a storyteller. I went into journalism as a young 17-year-old because I wanted to tell stories and I wanted to give people answers. And I think even though my career and job and overall trajectory has changed so many times, that is still the core of what I do, whether it is in web format for energysage.com or whether it’s for Plugged In, or even just messaging people on LinkedIn or whatever it is, the core of what I do is tell stories and give people answers.

Aaron Nichols: I’m interested to hear you elaborate on what storytelling means to you. And if you’ve read a lot of my LinkedIn content, you know I’m very biased in this area because energy as an industry for so long didn’t really have to tell compelling stories because it was just made up of regional monopolies. Now we need to, but our example is so far behind. And a lot of people who are very technically minded who work in industry, who work in energy, think that storytelling just means “let’s just make more graphs and make them look prettier.” I would love to hear from someone who’s been storytelling their entire career. What that means to you?

Kristina Zagame: Yes, yeah, definitely. For me, I honestly think when I think of storytelling, I think of telling one person’s story, right? So we can all read the charts: electricity bills are like this, right? Or like this—I don’t know what flip of the camera is. Our electricity bills are through the roof. When you hear that, you know it.

But then if you change it and you say, “Hey, my neighbor is a single mother with three kids and she got her utility bills and she’s broken into tears. She can’t pay it. She doesn’t know what to do. She might have to...” You know, if you start painting that picture, it gives people a different sense of, “Oh, this is a huge thing that’s happening.”

People know electricity bills are spiking, but until they fully firsthand experience it, where they see it happening to someone they know, or they hear it told in a compelling way... And that’s not to say that we should exaggerate things or clickbait things, like these are real stories that are happening. For me, it’s about finding those stories and telling them to people in a way that it’s going to resonate with people because I think at the end of the day, if you hear, “Okay, utility bills are happening, geez, that sucks,” move on. But if you hear this story about your neighbor... that’s the sort of thing that mobilized people to really want to take action to help in any way that they can.

Aaron Nichols: There’s some very sound social science behind what you’re saying as well, and this is... I’m very glad to hear that what has been sort of an instinctual soapbox rant for me is being validated by some of my soap experience. But there’s a reason that humane societies show you one puppy at a time. If the humane society says “we have a hundred dogs,” you’re like, “that’s way too big of a problem for me to even think about,” but if they’re like, “you can adopt Spud right now.” You’re so much more likely to take action because we can connect all things, but numbers, big problems, feel so out of hand so quickly.

Kristina Zagame: That is so true. You have to create, even if it’s a huge problem, it has to be a bite-size problem first if people feel like they can actually make a difference and make a change.

Aaron Nichols: Right. New York Times did that beautifully a couple months ago with the story of that Georgia single mother who was working three jobs, couldn’t get ahead. Her energy bills put her over the edge and she was just spiraling out of control. That’s probably where my example came from.

Kristina Zagame: It wasn’t on purpose, but I definitely could see that piece. So inherently, yeah. And I think that was one thing I learned pretty early on in journalism too, is, you know, you have to personalize everything, even if it’s not something that is fully personal.

I think even in breaking things down and checking things easier... you know, for a story about virtual power plants. That’s something that like no one cares when you say “virtual power” to it. But I said, “What if I told you you had a lemonade stand?” And this like, you know, who didn’t have a lemonade stand at least once when they were a kid or have kids who want to do a lemonade stand? That is something that people can easily latch onto and understand.

So I think to long-windedly answer your question: anytime that you can make a story personalized, make it interesting, give it that human feel. That’s what’s gonna work and that’s what storytelling really means to me.

Aaron Nichols: Amazing. And you, after running this show for a little while, exclusively focused on solar energy as someone who works for a solar company, you have some great insight and data on what most interests the public about solar. So I’m curious to hear you elaborate on that because I think it’s not always easy to get the public interested in it, especially because it’s too good at what it does. It just sits there and makes power. There’s no whirling. It’s very boring. So what [interests] the public about solar?

Kristina Zagame: Honestly, I wish I had some sort of profound answer for you here. I honestly just think it’s about money. The biggest thing about solar right now is: How much is it going to cost? Will it actually save me money? And when and how much is my return on investment? I think that’s where everyone’s mind is at right now.

And honestly, I think that is okay. I think right now, we are at such a period where people are struggling. Everything is expensive. I feel like every time I take a breath, it costs me $5. Especially living in Massachusetts. I mean, it’s truly... I can’t commute to work without spending 20 bucks. It’s really gotten out of control.

And so I think for people, you know, it’s just a gateway to: “Oh okay, there’s this one thing that’s going to go up on my roof. I’m not going to have to worry about it and it’s just going to save me money on these outrageous energy bills and then in the five years and seven years and 10 years, whatever it is, it will be completely paid off and I’ll just be enjoying the fruits of the labor.” I think what that’s what really gets people interested.

And then hopefully they stay around long enough to hear about all of the other benefits or, you know, if they get solar purely for the financial benefit, they might not realize that they’re also doing other great things like lowering their carbon footprint and ultimately helping their community, their neighborhood, their planet.

So at the end of the day, you know, if money is what interests people, money talks, and unfortunately we are at a time where people need to take care of their finances first and foremost. You know, there are people who have the means to get solar and are just like “Yeah I wanted to do something good for the environment so I put solar panels on my roof and I don’t really care if it’s using money.” That’s awesome. It’s not the reality for a lot of people. It’s an extensive product unfortunately.

So yeah I think that is what interests the public more but I also do feel like we have seen a big shift particularly within the last year, of more people interested in the idea of just generating their own power, specifically with battery storage, you know, having the backup and the energy independence of it. That has definitely been a huge motivator within the last year, and something that I think will increasingly hear as time goes on.

Aaron Nichols: I see that as very American as well, and that’s something that we try to lean into when we’re marketing to more conservative customers is just, you know, this has exclusively been owned by someone else for so long you can own it. You can control it.

Kristina Zagame: Mm-hmm. That’s actually why we did a whole Fourth of July themed episode on “Solar is American” because it truly is. If you think about... and I interviewed some solar installers that also happened to be former military members, and they said, if you think about the values of solar, the independence, the freedom... you’re taking control. It all is the same, it’s an American value, it truly is. So yeah, not to sound too kitschy with it, but solar really is an American value.

And it is interesting too. And I know in your questions, you kind of asked about other misconceptions people have about solar. I think the political thing is huge as well, which is also what inspired our first Plugged In conversation as well, about just like solar being bipartisan because so many people think—even for me, they’re like, “Oh, you work for a green energy company, you must be just like, flaming liberal.” And honestly, I’m like, you would be surprised to learn that most of the people who I talk to in this industry, a lot of the people I interview, a lot of the people just have read in demand actually tend to lean right. Not everyone. And I’m not going to ever say my political affiliation.

But no matter who you put your vote behind, I truly believe that this is for everyone, it can benefit everyone. And yes, unfortunately right now there are a lot of people in power who aren’t really putting their support behind clean energy. And that is sad because it is something that really is for everyone and benefits everyone. But yeah, I think that’s like a huge... probably the biggest misconception right now is that people still happen to think like, “Oh, if you have solar panels, you must be a crazy environmentalist. You probably just only eat granola and hike in the mountains.” And it’s like, no, no, no, no, like so many people benefit from this and really on all sides to them.

Aaron Nichols: I mean, I do eat granola and hike in the mountains. I mean, this is my name. It must be like Aaron.

Kristina Zagame: And I do as well. But you know, it’s just... it can be for people who do that and also for people who do whatever.

Aaron Nichols: Well, that... I mean, one of the things that gives me hope as well is that America is a nation of people with outlaw spirit. And as soon as you start telling people they can’t have something or shouldn’t have something, Americans are not related to that either. And solar has outlaw roots. I mean, a lot of the early technology was used to power people who were growing illegal herbs in California, as I’m sure you know.

Kristina Zagame: Mm-hmm. I also wanted to do an episode on that, but it got vetoed. Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha.

Aaron Nichols: Yeah, I guess someone’s producing a documentary that’s out next year. I’m interested to see it.

Well, I loved your “Solar is Dead” video as well. The intro was hilarious for you. I’d like the Halloween music and turned yourself black and white and made that face. And I love the quoted Mark Twain, who’s one of my favorite writers, Roughing It is one of my favorite books. What do you think people are misunderstanding about the solar industry and why do you think they are making that claim?

Kristina Zagame: Yeah, so I actually think we are partly to blame for the reason why people are [believing] this whole theory that solar is dead. And it’s because, you know, you and I chatted back in what was it, April or May now, about how we were worried about the ITC going away, the Solar Investment Tax Credit. And I think even in preparing this “Solar still makes sense and solar isn’t dead” video, I went back and watched my content and I said, well, I’m actually partly to blame for why people think that it has no future after this because the ITC was a really great benefit.

And we were trying to get as many people as possible to capitalize on this benefit before it went away. So in that, we had a lot of urgency messaging. And we were talking about... it’s not like we lied or we were inflated. It was a very real thing that we were trying to save or at least hope that the timeline wouldn’t be cut so short; a decade early seemed crazy. Unfortunately, we fought and we lost that battle.

But then I also think with that it did create this urgency messaging of like, “Okay, well now you have three months to get your panels up so that you can get this tax credit back.” And then people are like, “Okay, well, I didn’t do that or I missed that deadline or called my solar [installer] and they said there’s no way they can do it by the end of the year because now they’ve got a huge wait list.” So now, you know, no point. And there’s nowhere for the industry to go after this.

So I will apologize for my part. It’s not dead, but I do think we are in for a tough year. I think a lot of companies unfortunately have already been struggling. I’m sure a lot of them will continue to struggle as the year goes on, but I do think that it will be temporary. I think towards probably the end of the year and even into the next years, I see solar stabilizing and then eventually growing.

And I’ve talked to a lot of industry leaders who are seeing similar trends or projecting similar trends. I think a lot of that has to do with the improvement of financing options. I’ve written about clean energy and specifically solar since around 2021 in a previous role, and it was always something that we didn’t recommend any sort of third-party financing because in the past, there’ve been a lot of bad actors in that space. It’s been a little shady. It was just never the best deal for customers.

But I think as more people become interested in solar, but the financial barrier is just still what’s bottlenecking for people, I think a lot of new options have come out. You know, I was talking to Zoe Gaston from Wood Mackenzie and she was telling me about these new...

Aaron Nichols: She’s amazing. She’s so great. I’m very lucky.

Kristina Zagame: Really? That’s awesome. Yeah, no, she’s awesome. And she was telling me about, like, you know, those rent-to-own systems and so people can still get the benefit of owning their systems. But they rent them first so that they are able to have better financing. And, you know, I’ve talked to different people who are offering solar panel leases and PPAs that, you know, are decent human beings, are offering good options for homeowners. So, yeah, so I think that is going to help a lot with that divide and help keep solar alive for a little bit longer.

Aaron Nichols: Yeah, and that’s... I mean we sold out for projects last year back in July or August and then we had to start thinking about how we wanted to show up so we didn’t do any of the “year is about to end” marketing but we did spin up some better financing options and find some good deals behind the scenes and we’re now very excited for 2026.

Kristina Zagame: Yeah it’s very promising. I think... and I had to be very careful in saying that. And I did actually get, I think my first piece of backlash... no, maybe not my first, it would have been quite impressive. But when I did that video with... talking about how TPOs [Third Party Ownership] improved, everyone’s like, “TPOs terrible and you’ve always said it’s terrible.” And I’m like, “Look, I admit it in the video that I have always thought this and things are changing, so hopefully people come around to that and I would never recommend something that isn’t a good deal for the homeowner.” So I hope they trust that I did my research and I know that it’s a good deal.

Aaron Nichols: Well, you have chosen to be a public figure. So you think you’re inviting the backlash as a...

Kristina Zagame: Yeah. I used to be a TV news anchor. Oh, yeah. It’s funny to me how many people just like take the time to type these angry comments as if they’re like, “I will only be happy when all of the content I ever see is just confirming what I buy.”

Aaron Nichols: I know.

Kristina Zagame: But I was a little worried. I’m not going to lie. I was a little worried when I started changing my tune and doing my own research about TPO. I was like, oh my gosh, people think I’m a hypocrite because you can find articles I wrote back in 2021 saying, “This isn’t a good idea.” So yeah, I wanted to just call it out and say, hey, this didn’t used to be a good idea, but times are changing and now there are really good deals you can get with it.

Aaron Nichols: Totally. And you’re allowed to change, Kristina. You’re allowed to change.

Kristina Zagame: Thank you for permission.

Aaron Nichols: Well, Kristina, obviously, I could talk to you for hours and I’ve listened to you for hours over the last year. We have what’s now called a parasocial relationship where I’ve followed a bunch of your content. If you’ve listened to any episodes of This Week in Solar [or] seeing some of my highlights, you know that I end every episode with the same question.

And it has to do with... I was at my grandma’s 80th birthday party. I got to speak last June or July. And I realized when I was sitting there and later when I was writing a post that she was born into a world where clean energy didn’t exist. And that was just years ago. Like windmills were there to pump water. And solar PV wasn’t invented until 1954, and then it was super inefficient until like the 90s. Jimmy Carter didn’t put solar on the White House until ‘79 and that was solar thermal. So all the whole growth curve of renewable energy has happened within her lifetime, like from the invention to where we are now.

And so you are going to play us out and just make a wild prediction. And don’t worry, 80 years from now means we’ll both likely be dead unless medical science advances. But what do you think clean energy looks like 80 years from now?

Kristina Zagame: It’s such a good question. I don’t know if this is more of like a think or a hope for me. I really... I think that it is going to be more just easily integrated into infrastructure. And that’s really what I hope.

I, again, I live in Massachusetts, so fortunately everyone is very solar-friendly here. And just recently I was driving by this big random parking lot that’s in my hometown. And they recently just put up, you know, solar over the cars. So now when people park their cars there, not only are they saving themselves from having to get all the ice off of their windshield, but it’s just making energy. And I’m like, why is this just not what everything is everywhere, you know?

Why in people... you know I know you post all the time. People are always like, “Oh, it’s so ugly, big solar farms.” First of all, compared to what? And second of all, a big parking lot is...

Aaron Nichols: What are those natural gas flame thrower lamps? They put in fields in rural...

Kristina Zagame: Yeah, yeah, and you can like see the pollution. Yeah, but, you know, a big parking lot is empty, but it’s there and it serves the purpose and everyone can agree that the parking lot is important. So why not have the coverage of solar panels and then it’s a benefit to you as well because now your car is also being protected from the elements.

And so I think that is something that will just start to be... like I want solar and clean energy in general to be more of a before thought versus an afterthought. You know, instead of “I’m going to build my home and maybe in 15 years I’ll think about putting solar panels on it.” Why not just build the house with the solar roof? Why not just build the house with the solar panels?

I think we’re starting to see it here. Massachusetts actually, my dad is a builder, I wrote an article about him and went to go see one of his houses because they had to make the house solar ready. It was something that was asked by the city, to just have it so that when people move in, if they want to put panels on, everything is already hooked up, they just have to put the panels on.

And I think things like that, having the solar windows on office buildings... Like, wouldn’t that be so cool if every city just had solar windows? Like, you know, the building’s already there. It’s not going out of our way to make... I don’t know, it just, to me, it doesn’t need to be as difficult as everyone is making it seem.

And so my hope in 80 years is that it’s just integrated. You know, more EV charging stations and gas stations, more solar panels rather than big ugly empty parking lots. That’s my wish.

Aaron Nichols: There’s an episode airing before yours where I talk to someone who works for an environmental [org in] Pennsylvania, about how they’re trying to pass legislation right now to make warehouses solar ready. Warehouses are a great example of that, because you can’t argue that you can make a fulfillment warehouse uglier by putting solar [on it].

Kristina Zagame: Right.

Aaron Nichols: It’s a big cement building. It might as well throw panels on the roof, and you can’t even see them up there anyway.

Kristina Zagame: Exactly. Yeah.

Aaron Nichols: Well, Kristina, it’s been a pleasure having you. Um, where can you be found online if you do want to be found?

Kristina Zagame: Yes. Yeah. Well, first of all, I encourage everyone to subscribe to EnergySage on YouTube so that they can watch Plugged In. Um, feel free to comment all the good things. And I will take the trolls as well. It helps my engagement.

So I’m also on LinkedIn. I’m not quite sure... I think it’s just Kristina Zagame on LinkedIn. So that’s pretty much where I spend most of my social media these days is LinkedIn, which makes me sound quite sad and old, I realize that is. I just, I can’t do like all of the different ones in the [sliding], it’s too much for me. But yeah, and I’m always looking for interesting thought leaders and guests for Plugged In. You were a great one, we’ll have, definitely have to have you back for something this year. So people can also reach out that way and see if they’re a good fit for something.

Aaron Nichols: Well, thanks so much, and for everyone who’s listening: That’s been This Week in Solar. Thank you.

Here’s her LinkedIn

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

* How Q1 and Q2 2025 residential solar installs compare to last year.

* Why third-party ownership (leasing and PPAs) are expected to grow rapidly starting in 2026.

* How great installers differentiate themselves through trust, service, and diversification.

Quotes from the Episode:

“Our modeling showed installs could be as much as 40% lower in a low case scenario. But the industry will adapt.” – Zoë Gaston

“The best installers are the ones who care about their customers and can come back later with storage or other products.” – Zoë Gaston

Transcript:

Aaron Nichols:Hello, everyone and welcome back to This Week in Solar. I'm your host, Aaron Nichols, the Research and Policy Specialist here at Exact Solar in Newtown, Pennsylvania.

And today’s episode is very special because it’s literally brought to you by solar. I’m out on the road—my girlfriend and I are doing a working road trip—and this wouldn’t be possible without an off-grid solar setup, a battery bank, and Starlink. So I’m very grateful for that.

You may hear some nature noises; that’s because I’m recording outside today. Now, today’s guest is someone I’ve had nothing but positive interactions with and I’m happy to have gotten to know in person. She’s an analyst at Wood Mackenzie and covers distributed solar. It’s just been a delight to interact with you every time. It’s Zoë Gaston, ladies and gentlemen.

Yeah, thanks for having me. Welcome to the show. I’d love if you could give listeners a broad overview of who Wood Mackenzie is and what you all do in this space.

Zoë Gaston:Definitely. Wood Mackenzie is a global research and consulting firm, but my team and focus is the U.S. distributed solar research team.

Primarily, we publish research reports on the state of the U.S. solar market—how installations have trended. We put out forecasts for where we expect the market to go over the next five to ten years. We talk to many folks across the industry to gather data and trends—really, what’s going on right now.

Aaron Nichols:Okay, and what’s on most people’s minds lately has been the effective repeal of the Inflation Reduction Act. Since I work for a distributed solar company and you cover distributed solar nationwide, I’m curious what you’re seeing and how you think distributed solar companies can prepare.

Zoë Gaston:We’re finalizing our Q2 installation data now. We have Q1 2025 data—Q1 is typically the lowest quarter for residential solar due to seasonality, but this Q1 was particularly low: down about 10–15% versus Q1 2024, and Q1 2024 was already low.

We don’t have all of Q2 yet, but we do have Arizona, and installs there were down about 20% quarter-over-quarter in Q2. I’m anticipating Q2 will remain pretty low overall.

The first half of 2025 was strange: continued high interest rates impacting demand; bankruptcies of two major financing players, Mosaic and Sunnova; and uncertainty about whether tax credits would go away. That uncertainty made the customer sales pitch tougher.

Now that the bill has been signed into law, I’m hearing from installers that sales are ticking up—there’s urgency for homeowners with 25D to qualify before year-end. So I expect an uptick in Q3 and a strong Q4.

Aaron Nichols:Yeah, on our end the lead volume and sales spike has been amazing. Incentives going away is, in the short term, the best imaginable marketing for solar—though long term, we’ll see. We’re booking into January now, so a nice backlog is forming, but we are navigating a new world.

What are you all preparing for at Wood Mackenzie? Many said we needed a reasonable phase-down, not a cliff. Some call this a cliff—residential loses incentives after decades, and commercial phases out faster. What are you preparing for?

Zoë Gaston:In Q2 (around May), after the House bill came out, we updated our forecast modeling. We built a low case assuming a worst-case scenario: after 2025, no residential systems qualify for 25D or Section 48 ITC. Under that scenario, we expect a sizable drop-off in 2026–2027.

Comparing 2025 to 2029 capacity, that low case could be ~40% lower than our base case (which assumes no ITC changes), and it also assumes more pessimistic interest and retail rate outcomes. Think of that as the floor.

There is upside: based on the bill’s language, third-party-owned (TPO) systems can continue to qualify for the ITC after 2025. That’s up in the air pending the executive order and Treasury guidance. If retail rates rise and interest rates ease, that also adds upside.

Assuming TPO qualifies, I expect a 25D-driven uptick in 2025, a contraction in 2026 once 25D is gone, and then a significant rise in TPO market share starting in 2026 that could last several years. I’m hearing many loan-/cash-only installers are shifting to TPO. I also expect more diversification—storage, small commercial, service, HVAC, roofing—anything to offset the slowdown.

Aaron Nichols:As someone looking at the market in depth, what do great installers do that others don’t? What helps them stand the test of time and weather downturns?

Zoë Gaston:From the installers I speak with, smaller local companies often build real relationships and trust with customers and can return later to offer storage or other products. Companies that genuinely care about customer outcomes—saving money, clear communication—stand out.

Aaron Nichols:What are you optimistic about going forward? Personally, I think telling Americans they can’t have something they used to have creates a backlash—some will go solar out of defiance, which oddly makes me optimistic.

Zoë Gaston:I think the industry will adapt. Even installers who don’t plan to offer TPO are looking to cut costs. Some say they’ll “eat” that 30% next year to offer customers IRA-like pricing—how they’ll do it remains to be seen, but I’m hearing consistent determination to keep solar affordable.

This could weed out bad actors who can’t operate in the new environment. Longer term, costs can come down, and the sector can emerge stronger.

Aaron Nichols:I’m fired up. It was fun entering solar during strong incentives, but I’m a contrarian—it’s energizing to have a fight. I’m excited for the next few years and to have my job be active defiance instead of the accepted norm.

Zoë Gaston:I started this role in 2022 right when the IRA passed—so a lot has changed. It’s been a tough few years, but residential solar will come out the other side.

Aaron Nichols:It’s been going a long time. When I interviewed Nico Johnson for the first episode (airing in a couple weeks), I said I’ve been blown away by how close-knit the long-timers are—same conferences, best friends, godparents to each other’s kids. That’ll be us in ten years. I’m excited to work with these people.

As younger folks now receiving the baton, what can we do to carry it forward?

Zoë Gaston:In my role, I aim to be objective: track trends, explain what’s happening, and offer informed expectations. My goal is to keep providing data that helps the industry understand conditions, adapt, and move forward.

Aaron Nichols:Sounds good. I’ll be over here fighting. Last one—a moonshot question I’m asking everyone. At my grandma’s 80th birthday, I realized she was born into a world without what we now call renewable energy. Ten years after the Rural Electrification Act, nine years before the first PV cell (1954). Carter put solar on the White House in 1979. Within her lifetime we went from nothing to affordable renewables.

If we’re extrapolating—and we’ll both be gone—what does renewable energy look like in 80 years?

Zoë Gaston:Great question. Technology could be far more advanced—maybe entirely different. Panels will be much more efficient. Maybe truly solar-powered cars. Maybe we can project solar power onto buildings instead of installing it. Full electrification. We’ll see.

Aaron Nichols:Thank you so much for doing this, Zoë. It’s been fun to talk to friends for work, and I’m grateful you made the time. Where do you like to be found?

Zoë Gaston:On LinkedIn—search my name, Zoë Gaston. I periodically post updates about our research.

Aaron Nichols:I realize I said your name wrong at the beginning—I’ll try to edit that out. Thanks again for making the time. You can find Zoë’s work on LinkedIn—she posts educational charts from her analyst work and is worth following.

Zoë Gaston:Thanks for having me.

Aaron Nichols:That’s This Week in Solar. See you next week.

What started as a fringe, under-the-radar DIY movement (look up “guerrilla solar”) will soon be a legally protected appliance class across the United States.

Curious where your state stands on legalizing anyone’s right to harvest sunlight? Read on.

Listen to this episode on:

* YouTube

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* Spotify

If you’ve gotten some value out of this week in solar, please consider subscribing (for free) so we can continue to bring you more!

When it comes to plug-in solar, states have wildly different attitudes.

A few have made moves to eliminate utility red tape, while others have killed bills under heavy pressure from utility and labor monopolies.

States where legislation has passed

Five states have officially signed plug-in solar bills into law. These are:

* Utah: The pioneer that started the movement when they signed their 1,200W limit into law in March 2025.

* Maine & Virginia: Both signed their respective 1,200W limit bills into law in April 2026.

* Colorado: Signed into law on May 7, 2026. HB 26-1007 sets the national high-water mark with a 1,920W limit and explicitly stops HOAs from interfering with homeowners’ rights to put a few solar panels on their property.

* Maryland: Signed into law on May 12, 2026. HB 1532 is unique because it specifically exempts smaller systems under 391W from needing UL certification or building code alterations.

* Connecticut: HB 5340 passed both chambers on June 4th

States where legislation is advancing

These states have active, moving legislation.

* Awaiting Signature: New York, New Hampshire, and Vermont.

* Active in Chambers: Illinois (SB 3104 successfully advanced out of committee), California, Massachusetts, Hawaii, Delaware, North Carolina, Oklahoma, and Washington, D.C.

States where legislation’s been killed stone dead

Utility pushback, union opposition, and legislative gridlock effectively stalled progress in 11 states for the 2026 session.

* The Casualties: Washington (the plug-in solar exemption was explicitly stripped from a broader energy bill before passage), New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Wyoming, Indiana, Missouri, Arizona, New Mexico, Oregon, Georgia, and Idaho. Opponents in these states largely cited fire risks and technical interconnection concerns, causing bills to either fail a floor vote or die in committee. Sponsors in these states are forced to regroup for 2027.

States with no Legislation

16 states remain entirely without explicit legislation. Utilities in these states continue to apply outdated, heavy-handed interconnection rules designed for massive rooftop arrays to simple 120V plug-in systems.

* The Holdouts: Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, North Dakota, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, West Virginia, and Wisconsin.

Sources:

https://pluginsolarguide.com/

https://www.brightsaver.org/legislation-tracker/

https://pluginsolarusa.com/

https://www.reddit.com/r/pluginsolarusa/

What’s new:

The U.S. Court of International Trade ruled that President Biden’s 2022 two-year pause on AD/CVD collections for solar cells/modules from Cambodia, Malaysia, Thailand, and Vietnam was unlawful.

The court cleared U.S. Customs and Border Protection to assess retroactive duties on entries between Apr. 1, 2022, and June 6, 2024.

Why it matters:

The decision could trigger billions in back duties (estimates range as high as $54 billion) on roughly 88 GW of imports. Developers and utilities that relied on low-cost Southeast Asian panels may face steep, unexpected costs, with some projects already completed now exposed to tariffs of up to 200% of their value.

The ruling is a major win for Auxin Solar and Concept Clean Energy, who argued the moratorium undermined domestic manufacturers.

Clean energy groups and developers who opposed the case warn that the retroactive charges could ripple across the industry, stall projects, and create further uncertainty in the solar supply chain.

This ruling is supported by the Solar Energies Industries Association, as well as many larger panel manufacturers and developers.

ITC opens new trade case on solar imports from India, Indonesia, Laos

What’s new:The U.S. International Trade Commission voted 3–0 to proceed with antidumping/countervailing duty probes into solar cells and panels from India, Indonesia, and Laos, after a petition from the Alliance for American Solar Manufacturing & Trade.

Why it matters:U.S. manufacturers say Chinese-owned and other producers shifted output to these countries to dodge existing Southeast Asia tariffs, undercutting U.S. prices and investment. A final case could add new duties and reshape near-term module sourcing.

Gavin Newsom Fast-Tracks Clean Energy Projects

What’s new:California Gov. Gavin Newsom signed an executive order directing state agencies to accelerate permitting and interconnection for energy projects in danger of losing Inflation Reduction Act support.

Why it matters:Federal timelines tightened under the “One Big Beautiful Bill,” putting tens of gigawatts of planned clean energy at risk; Newsom’s order aims to save projects before credits lapse.

The order tells the state’s Energy Working Group to immediately identify IRA-eligible projects at risk and help agencies “take all steps necessary” to speed approvals. It also instructs the CPUC to prioritize actions that connect renewable generation and battery storage to the grid over the next three years.

Sources:

Trade court orders retroactive duties on solar panels imported back in 2022

US trade court orders retroactive solar duties on Southeast Asian imports

ITC unanimously votes to investigate solar panels from India, Indonesia and Laos

US will proceed with probe of solar imports from India, Laos and Indonesia

Governor Newsom signs executive order to accelerate projects at risk of losing IRA support

We just published our 28th episode of This Week In Solar. I’d love to know how we’re doing, so I wrote a few survey questions. I don’t expect anyone to answer all of them, but any feedback, no matter how brutal, is welcome.

See you next week!

One:

Two:

Three:

Four:

Five:

Six:

Seven:

Is there anything we’re not doing that you’d love to see? Leave a comment below!

Republican lawmakers in the Senate released their draft of the "One Big, Beautiful Bill" this week. They kept most of the House's clean-energy rollbacks and made some minor changes. For residential and commercial solar installers, however, the bill is virtually unchanged.

Why it Matters:

Their draft, released June 16, still eliminates the residential solar credit six months after enactment and bars installers from claiming the commercial credit if customers use a leasing model.

Commercial solar projects lose their new-project incentives on an accelerated schedule:

* Can claim the credits full value only if construction starts by the end of 2025

* 60% in 2026

* 20% in 2027

* Gone after 2028

Hydropower, geothermal, batteries, and nuclear, meanwhile, keep 100% of the current credit until 2033 and step down gradually through 2036

This will put solar energy, the nation's cheapest and fastest-to-deploy power source, at a competitive disadvantage.

Utility-scale solar projects can still claim 100 % of the ITC or PTC if they meet two tests:

* Begin physical work or incur the "5 % safe-harbor" costs any time up to December 31, 2025.

* Enter their Commercial Operation Date (COD) on or before December 31, 2029.

That placed-in-service date is one year later than the House-passed version, which cut off full credits after 2028.

Projects that slip into 2030 under the Senate plan still qualify but at only 60% of the credit's value. If they reach COD in 2031, they receive 20%, and after that, the credit disappears altogether.

The manufacturing credit that has lured panel, inverter, and racking factories to red-state counties survives intact through 2029, but homeowner heat pump and efficiency incentives vanish.

The Solar Industry's Protest

Hours after the draft was released, SEIA's CEO Abigail Ross Hopper said the proposal "would pull the plug on homegrown solar energy and decimate the American manufacturing renaissance," warning of higher power bills and stalled AI-driven demand.

On June 18, hundreds of installers, factory workers, and suppliers poured onto Capitol Hill for a "Save Main Street Solar" rally, hoisting yellow signs and a banner that read the slogan in three-foot letters.

Speakers came from all over the country:

* Dan Conant, CEO and founder of West Virginia-based Solar Holler, described his crews putting "Georgia-made panels on steel mills and schools" and warned that gutting tax credits would "kick out the knees" of a fast-growing industry.

* Retired Navy commander Steve Rutherford, now owner of Tampa Bay Solar, said one stroke of the pen could sideline "thousands of veterans" employed in solar across Florida.

* Enphase executive Marco Krapels, whose firm opened U.S. factories after the IRA passed, pleaded for "a glide path, not a cliff."

However, major changes at this point are unlikely.

There will not be a public markup on this bill; it's headed directly to the Senate floor. Any changes will come from the private negotiations between Senators this week and next.

What they decide will determine whether the country's fastest-growing energy industry continues to grow or hits a wall.

Pennsylvania House Passes Solar for All

The Pennsylvania House quietly moved the state closer to accepting $156 million in federal Solar for All funds this week, tucking language into Fiscal Code bill HB 1189, striking last year's budget clause requiring an extra vote before the state could accept the money.

The move (championed by Rep. Elizabeth Fiedler and Majority Leader Matt Bradford) came after advocates rallied against a previous amendment that would have tied the dollars to a rewrite of net-metering rules.

The measure grants the state's energy authority permission to spend the grant on rooftop and community solar projects in low-income and environmental justice communities. More than 14,000 households could benefit.

The bill now heads to the GOP-controlled Senate and then to Governor Josh Shapiro; supporters are pressing lawmakers to finalize it before the federal September 1 deadline so Pennsylvania doesn't have to send the money back to Washington.

We cannot emphasize enough that this is federal government money that is already earmarked for infrastructure improvement in Pennsylvania, and state legislators only need to accept it.

Sources:

https://www.solarpowerworldonline.com/2025/06/senate-budget-draft-makes-minor-improvements-but-keeps-major-cuts-to-solar-incentives/?spMailingID=159837&puid=3010351&E=3010351&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=159837

https://heatmap.news/politics/senate-finance-big-beautiful-bill-ira

https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/climate-energy/us-senate-floats-full-phase-out-solar-wind-energy-tax-credits-by-2028-2025-06-16/

https://seia.org/news/icymi-hundreds-of-american-solar-workers-and-advocates-rally/

Dan spends his days helping clean energy companies and nonprofits shape public narratives, place op-eds, and talk to policymakers in ways that actually move votes.

He and Aaron dig into how energy prices became one of the hottest political issues in the country and how the solar industry can seize the moment.

Listen to this episode here, or on:

* YouTube

* Apple Podcasts

* Spotify

You can connect with Dan on LinkedIn here.

Expect to learn:

* How the clean energy sector got outmaneuvered in Washington during the One Big Beautiful Bill fight

* What clean energy companies can do right now to tell better stories, get local press, and bring elected officials into their projects.

* Why facts alone do not speak for themselves, and how emotion, human stories, and pocketbook concerns drive modern energy politics.

Quotes from the episode:

“Energy prices are not going away as an issue. Voters see the increases on their bills and they are looking for someone to blame and someone to fix it.”

- Dan Crawford

“Clean energy has flipped from being something people supported for climate reasons to something most voters support because they want cheaper electricity.”- Dan Crawford

Transcript

Aaron NicholsHello, everyone, and welcome back to this week in solar. As always, I’m your host, Aaron Nichols, the research and policy specialist here at Exact Solar in Newtown, Pennsylvania.And today we have someone that I’ve followed for a little while. Once we got started talking on LinkedIn, I realized that I’ve been subscribed to the Echo Communications Newsletter for, I think, over a year, and until I got really excited to make that connection.We have Dan Crawford here, the Senior Vice President at Echo Communications Advisors. Dan, would you introduce yourself and echo and talk about what a day in your working life might look like?

Dan CrawfordYeah, Aaron, it’s great to be on the pod. I started listening and we’ve been really enjoying the interview so far.Great to be chatting with you. So Echo Communications and advisors. We are a DC based policy first communications firm. We focus exclusively on climate and clean energy clients.So what I tell people is, you know, we help climate and clean energy companies, nonprofits, organizations have their voices heard in Washington and across the country.So if you’re looking to change policy, if you’re looking to fix a piece of legislation or get something past or input with lawmakers, you know, we help with communications tactics like media, op-eds, messaging to have your voice heard.

Aaron NicholsOkay, great. And just off the top of my head, I’m really interested in landing op-eds. How, what’s a off the top of your head tip for anyone who’s interested in getting more?

Dan CrawfordYou know, op ads are top. They’re easier said than done. Yeah. There’s a lot of people submitting a lot of op ads to not a lot outlets.I would say the first tip is know your audience. So, if you are trying to reach, you know, people in the specific area look for, you know, local or regional outlets, if you’re trying to reach people that are interested in a specific topic, you know, look at trade publications, look at kind of more niche websites, don’t assume that if you’re writing an op-ed, you have to pitch it to USA Today of New York Times, you know, they’re probably going to be outlets that are better read by your audiences.And if you kind of do your homework a little bit and find something that you think is a really good fit, you’re more likely to get it picked up.You know, having a clear message and a really unique point of view is really helpful. It can’t just be, you know, hey, here’s, you know, this thing that I think is cool, pay attention to me.You have to be making an argument, you have to be, you have to be saying something that it is unique to you that they’re not hearing from a bunch of other people.So make sure your argument is unique, make sure your audience, you have the right audience in mind, and make sure that your writing is solid and compelling.

Aaron NicholsYeah, okay, those are all great tips. I mean, I’ve never thought about this until I just asked you that, but the average editor who’s publishing op-eds probably has to sort through just the craziest stuff you can imagine coming into their newspapers.So make yours easy quick and related.

Dan CrawfordYeah, you have to imagine, you know, these folks are probably spending like two minutes for submission before they decide whether to accept it or reject it.So you have to make sure that you can grab their attention with something that’s very compelling. When they get go, that’s a unique argument that they haven’t heard before.And a point of view that is not represented in their newspaper or if they’re out there already.

Aaron NicholsYeah, well, to take it in a different direction, one thing that I wanted to talk to you about and that we are very excited about at Exact Solar because we install Solar in New Jersey is Mikey Cheryl, winning the governorship of New Jersey. And we also had Abigail Spanberger win the governorship of Virginia and both talked a lot about using clean energy to bring down energy prices when they were on campaign trail.We also saw two new elected officials to the Georgia Public Service Commission who ran on very similar terms, which for that to make national news is crazy.A lot of people probably hadn’t even heard of public service commissions before the last couple of years. So do you think this will be a winning strategy for other candidates a year from now as we go through the midterms?

Dan CrawfordYeah, I absolutely do, you know, 2025 elections were a big issue with energy prices across the board, and I don’t see any sign of that changing in the next year.Or if you look at New Jersey and electricity prices were up 20% year over year this summer and polls showed that a vast majority of voters considered it to be an important issue in the election.And Cheryl was really able to seize on that. She came out and announced that she was going to freeze rates, be executive order, and that she was going to fight to reform PJM, the grid operator in New Jersey.And, you know, she really kind of defined the debate over energy prices, and I think, you know, it was very smart and she ended up winning on the issue.You know, we were joking before we started recording. When was the last time a grid operator would say a household name, you know, in an election?So it’s clear that voters are paying attention. People have noticed that their electricity prices are going up, you know, in Virginia, data centers are a huge issue.There’s more data centers in Virginia than I think anywhere in the world, definitely anywhere in the country. And, you know, people see them as you’re driving by, you see these huge data centers, and you know that they’re just gobbling up tons of power.And there’s a big fight over whether there should be more of them and how they should pay for their power.And Spamberger was really able to see them on that as well. And then, of course, in Georgia, you had two Democrats winning in the public service commission, which is the first time that Democrats have won statewide non-federal election in Virginia or in Georgia in like 20 years or something like that.And, you know, these, these public service commissioners, gigs, like, usually if you’re, if you’re in an incumbent, you’re not really worried about a reelection challenge, people tend to just kind of like vote the same people in over and over again.So the fact that voters were fired up enough to even go to the polls for this election, let alone vote for a challenger shows that energy prices are going to be, you know, a huge issue.And I think what we’ve seen is really a flipping of the script with clean energy where, you know, clean energy, especially solar is oftentimes the cheapest form of energy that we put on the grid.It’s by far the fastest, and when you talk about supply constraints as data centers are demanding more power, you know, the fact that you can put solar panels up, the fact that you can get solar panels up and connect them to the grid in a couple of years compared to five, six, seven, eight years for a gas plan means that solar is by far the best option and so clean energy has kind of switched from being something that people backed because they cared about climate change, they backed because they care about the environment, to something that the majority of voters support because they want to see cheaper electricity.And I think that flipping of the script has been really interesting. And it I think is a great sign for the solar industry and for the clean energy industry in general going forward.

Aaron NicholsYeah there’s so many places to go here and so many things that I’m curious about since you are in this every day and you know so much more than I do.But I am I’m particularly interested in the story that’s being told right now because I know that that Mikey Cheryl and Abigail Spanberger won, and there was this public service commission election as well.And the media has really seized on that, saying, like, energy is going to be a hot-button issue. But four people does seem like a small sample size to me.And so I’m interested in what you’ve seen in the broader picture as well.

Dan CrawfordYeah, I mean, you know, 2025 is an off-year election and, you know, it’s not even a proper mid-term, so you really only have Virginia and New Jersey and then a couple of smaller state elections.So it’s a small sample size, but I don’t think this issue is going away. You’re already seeing Democrats talk about it, you know, who are sort of thinking about running for President in 2028.Governor Pritzker in Illinois just signed legislation to really kind of beef up energy production in the state. So you’re seeing, you’re seeing national names talk about it more and more.And you know, electricity prices are not going to go down anytime soon. So I think it’s going to continue to be a key issue going forward, especially with the president out there really attacking clean energy and doing its best to cancel wind projects and solar projects with Republicans and Congress rolling back incentives to put solar panels on your rooftop.Energy prices had become this very sort of politicized thing. And you know, I think there’s an opportunity there for the clean energy industry to kind of harness this political power.Now all of a sudden people really care about where is their energy coming from and how much does it cost.And you know, the solar and you know, wind and battery industries, you know, they really have an opportunity to say like, hey, we are the energy sources of the future.We are going to make the grid more reliable. We are going to make your energy cheaper and we want politicians who support our industry.

Aaron NicholsYeah, I’m really excited to watch that play out. And I know that if we’re talking about a public service commission election, like you said, for someone to defeat incumbents in something that most people have probably just checked a box on every election and never really thought about is huge.And I know Georgia got hit really hard with price increases. I think they’ve had, I read in that New York Times article about canceling solar for all, but I think they’ve had four or five in the last four years, and it’s gone off some huge amount.So obviously, there’s public frustration that candidates are tapping into here. But how do you think that clean energy companies who historically have not been amazing at public perception PR media?How can they tap into that same frustration and use it to our advantage?

Dan CrawfordYeah. Yeah. The first thing I’d say is, you know, make sure that you’re telling your story.So, you know, if you’re a company that’s breaking ground on a new project, you know, have a press conference, invite your local officials and invite your representative.Talk about the jobs that you’re creating. Talk about the impact your project is going to have on energy prices. Don’t be afraid to, you know, to talk about what your projects mean for the economy, what they mean for homeowners, ratepayers.You know, find out who your representatives are, make sure you’re in touch with them. You know, if you, if you can go to their offices and sit down and chat, visit DC and really start to advocate for the industry, you know,And I think a little bit of it is just that kind of flipping of the script of remember solar and all this clean tap is going to make energy prices cheaper. And so we don’t have to appeal to people sort of sense of altruism or their concerns over climate, which have always asked someone who cares a lot about climate.You know, it’s tough to admit, but they’ve always been secondary to pocketbook concerns. And so now the energy, the clean energy industry has, I think, a very firm ground to stand on to say like, we are making electricity bills cheaper.We are making it easier for you to get power. We are making it easier for you to, you know, get through blackouts and brownouts and survive and unreliable grid.All of these things that just sort of like make people’s lives easier, you know, we can now kind of talk about our role in that.

Aaron NicholsAnd I think I want to emphasize something you talked about at the beginning, just from my own narrow band of personal experience that’s about telling your story and inviting local officials.I think we’ve been very successful in that. When we were trying to have more of a national impact in the run up to the one big beautiful bill, we were too small for reps to listen to us in Washington.But our local impact and zooming in on one story, specifically the fact that we built an off-grid system that powered a greenhouse that grows organic produce and a food desert in inner city Philadelphia, and then inviting reps and non-profits, that got us all sorts of media attention.We probably couldn’t have afforded just in terms of eyeballs on us, and also landed us in NPR. And so I think one thing that in my own, once again, narrow band of experience, the clean energy industry doesn’t seem to do a good job of, is zooming in on emotional one stories and trying to tell the story of the whole thing at once saying you know if we if we’re saying we’re going to lose 100,000 jobs that’s much more difficult for a human mind to conceive of than saying Jim’s going to lose his job Jim just got an electrician’s license Jim has a family.

Dan CrawfordYeah I mean telling those individual stories can be so powerful and showing that kind of depth. I tell people, when you’re trying to get a story picked up by the media, you want to think about kind of breadth or depth.Does it have a very broad impact? Does it affect everybody? Or does it have a really profound impact on a few people?Because media like to tell those stories. They like to be able to find specific people that they can interview and say, like, yes, this is making my life better or, you know, this will make my life worse.And having those individual stories can be just super powerful.Yeah. The other thing I’ll say is, you know, I think this whole industry has some great trade groups that are, you know, really doing a good job making the case in Washington.So, you know, if you’re interested in, you know, getting involved with your trade associations band together and make sure that, you know, your collective voice has be heard.

Aaron NicholsAnd I think there’s there’s an order of operations there as well. Like we realized, okay, so this project involves education, politicians love education, specifically they love to stand in front of education and talk about how great it is.And the media loves to photograph politicians while they stand in front of education and talk about how great it is.And so if you can make sure that everyone gets what they want.Yeah, you can create a really special moment.

Dan CrawfordYeah, totally. And I’ve been talking a lot about prices. I think the prices are the key issue next year and for years to come.But the cleaning and energy industry has so much to offer the economy as a whole. When you think about AI, I mean, one, like we’re going to need so much energy to power AI and it can’t just come from oil and gas.It’s going to have to come from everywhere. You cannot build a new gas plant in less than eight years right now.You can build solar a solar plant in two.And, and be, you know, when you think about how the workforce is being transformed because of AI, you know, a lot of jobs that were high paying jobs that you would go to college for are gonna be harder to get and they’re gonna be harder to come by.And then meanwhile, I guess what jobs can’t be outsourced AI, electricians, like people that are actually on the ground using their hands installing solar panels, building windmills.And I think that those are in a way the jobs of the future because they’re the jobs that we’re going to need that are going to pay really well, and it can’t be outsourced or turned over to the robots.

Aaron NicholsYeah, and to get there, we obviously have to go through to Washington, and there’s going to have to be policy that’s favorable to that.But in the run-up to the OBBB being passed, I mean, we really got our butts kicked as an industry. And I went to Nico Johnson’s some at last month, and he had a former state rep come speak who told us that in their time in office they had to ask one person to be the clean energy industry’s filter for them, because there were so many competing companies talking to them about all these different things that they wanted, and no one seemed to have unified messaging or goals, whereas on the other side of the aisle, the fossil fuel industry knew exactly what they wanted and how to get it, and there’s just a lot more practice at that. So how do you think as an industry, as someone who works in Washington, how do you think as an industry, we can get on the same page, and what common messages do you think we have that we can rally behind? I know energy affordability is one that you mentioned.

Dan CrawfordYeah, you know, I think leading up to the OBBBA, BBBA. I think there was a feeling that the like the facts would speak for themselves.You know, you had all of these projects that were breaking ground. You had all these investments that were being announced.And a lot of them were in Republican states and Republican districts. And I think a lot of people, you know, sort of thought, well, there’s no way that they will vote, you know, against these tax credits that they’ll vote to roll these incentives back because you know we are making investments in their district and I think people were maybe a little naive and didn’t you know didn’t put enough stock in the strength of the ideology of some of the members of Congress that were pushing this legislation forward.You know it was no there were plenty of there were plenty of members who said oh yeah I support the tax credit that you wish you keep you know this tax credit or that tax credit, I think we should protect some of the IRA, but it was nobody’s top priority.Nobody was willing to put their neck out there to be the one to save this particular tax credit.And so, at the end of the day, they all voted yes anyways, even though they said, oh yeah, we should protect the IRA tax credits.I think that was definitely a lesson learned. I think having the affordability messaging, you’ve already seen advocacy organizations and trade organizations start to coalesce around affordability, which is huge.You know, the oil and gas industry has had a lot more time, right, like they’ve been around for longer. They’ve had time to kind of consolidate power, but they are very good at kind of speaking from you know, the same notebook, right?Like they are very practiced and very disciplined. And they’re very good about thinking about where does their money go, you know, where are their donations going.And so you have members of Congress who they know where their bread is buttered. And they, you know, support the oil and gas industry because they’re getting donations, They’re going to make support, they’ve got support for years, even at the expense of their own constituents.You know, you think about it, you know, so our employees close to 300,000 people in America, that’s like five or six times more people than coal employees.And it’s getting to be close to rivaling oil and gas, at least the sort of direct employment. And, you know, the coal industry and the oil and gas industry, they just have spent so much time kind of building political power that now they have this outside impact on politics.And, you know, I think it’s going to take some time, but I think that that should be the model for the clean energy industry is, you know, how do we build political power?How do we make sure that we are being heard in Washington and that our influence reflects our impact on the economy, our impact on prices, our impact on jobs.

Aaron NicholsYeah, my friend Spencer Meeks, I don’t know if you’ve been lucky enough to meet him at a conference or anything.He says facts don’t speak for themselves at all. which I have come to believe that’s true as well. And I think that emotion has a much larger role to play than we like to imagine it does.I think as people who tend to be a little more educated or have gone to a little more university, whether that makes us educated or not on one side of the aisle, I think that there’s this over-reliance on facts and an under-reliance on emotion, and I mean facts have really never mattered less to the political discourse these days.Yeah, which is interesting to see. I mean, I like to say that no one is sitting around waiting for a graph that proves them wrong.I think people only go. I think people only go looking for facts when they already believe in emotionally charged story.

Dan CrawfordYeah, I think that’s right. You know, I think the energy, the clean energy industry is at a bit of an inflection point now where for the longest time, you know, it was, it was an ideological choice to support clean energy because you were, you were doing it for political reasons.And it’s sometimes meant sacrificing something and meant spending more money because you wanted to get carbon free electricity. And I do think that there is a moment right now where we’ve kind of crossed this inflection point where now you don’t have to care about climate to support clean energy.You just have to care about, you know, electricity that’s cheap, that’s reliable, that’s fast to deploy. So, you know, I’m hopeful, as somebody who does care about climate, you know, very deeply, I’m hopeful that, you know, the economics will win out and that people will support energy, clean energy because of the economics.And I think that that’s the best path forward is to just keep investing, keep doing what you can to make this technology better and cheaper and faster, and let people vote with their wallets.

Aaron NicholsYeah, and I think the psychological emotional lever to pull in the short term is this system that we rely on for this thing that we now need is completely out of your control, and And it’s just going to continue costing more.There’s nothing you can do about that, except this one thing. And that, yeah.

Dan CrawfordWell, and people should, people can get involved at all levels of government. I would say, find out if your state has an elected public service commission or public utility commission, find out where your PUC stands on the issue.You know, find out where your representative stands on the issue, you know, like you’re going to see things like BJM in New Jersey and Pennsylvania becoming a really big issue, you know, and just like grid operators and interconnection cues and all this stuff that, you know, feels very technical and very wonky is going to become very important to the, you know, the simple question of, you know, can you get power to your house and how much is a cost?

Aaron NicholsYeah. Well, Dan, to bring it home since we’re running out of time, I ask everyone the same last question who gives me their time to guest on this show.And that it has to do with the fact that I was at my grandma’s 80th birthday party a couple months ago.And as I was sitting down to write a LinkedIn post about it afterwards, I realized that that means that she was born into a world where clean energy did not exist.She was born in 1945, so Missouri had just been electrified a couple of years before. The only way we knew how to generate energy was to dig things up and burn them.We had no other way of doing it. Solar PV was an invention until she was nine years old and then that took decades to become cost-effective.And then, you know, at the turn of the century, the price just cratered and became way more cost effective. All of that has happened within her lifetime.So if you are just going to spitball moonshot, what do you think clean energy looks like 80 years from now?

Dan CrawfordOh, that’s a great question. And I love just the historic perspective there. I was at an event where they were talking about electric cars and somebody brought up a a news article from like the 1830s that was about steamships, and now steamship technologies never going to beat the, you know, the wind and sailing ships there, too slow, they’re too high-byes.So we’ve been having these debates for ages, right, and you know, I just think that we need to, you know, we need to have that historic perspective of, like, yeah, hundred years ago, we didn’t have, we didn’t have natural gas, right?We had coal and that was it. You know, doesn’t mean we’re going to have to have coal forever and it doesn’t mean we’re going to have to have natural gas forever.I think that in 80 years, you know, the technology will be at a point where we can, where everybody in the world has abundant energy and, you know, energy is everything.Energy is at the heart of economic prosperity. It’s at the heart of economic growth. It’s how countries become superpowers. It’s how developing countries become developed countries.And, you know, if we can unlock cheap, abundant, clean energy for the world, I just think we’re just going to see this explosion of human wellness and flourishing.So that’s the future that I’m working for. It’s the future that you’re working for. I hope the future that our listeners are working for as well.

Aaron NicholsAmazing. Then, if you want to be found, where do you like to be found? I assume you mean on the internet.

Dan CrawfordI do mean on the internet, if you’re not a person.Well, I didn’t watch it in DC. If anybody wants to get coffee, if you’re here, I’m always always happy to chat.But echo coms.com. It’s e-c-o-c-o-m-m-s.com. We have a great newsletter that goes out once a week where we we talk about but you know, it can verify it as a copy of the day.Appreciate it. And we do some of these interviews as well. So Aaron, maybe we’ll have to have you on our newsletter, The Echo Chamber.And I’m on LinkedIn as well. Folks should find me. I wish I had to reconnect.Fantastic. For everyone listening, that’s been this week in solar and we will see you next week.Thanks so much, Dan.Thanks a lot, Aaron. This was great.

If you don’t already know what Dragonwings are, you should. They’re insanely cool. Imagine off-grid power in a box, Blade Runner style.

You can look at ‘em here.

Ryan has a PhD in electrochemical engineering and a long resume of awesome achievements. He’s now building robotic solar generators that unfold from shipping containers.

Listen to this episode here, or on:

* YouTube

* Apple Podcasts

* Spotify

Connect with Ryan on LinkedIn here.

If you’ve learned something from This Week In Solar and you’d like to learn more, drop your email below, and we’ll keep sending you free solar news!

Expect to learn:

* How Dragonwings is moving off-grid solar away from slow, custom construction and toward a production line manufacturing model.

* Why Ryan picked the 20-foot shipping container shape (it’s perfect for something very specific).

* How these cool mobile solar units are powering everything from NFL games to off-grid villages at Burning Man.

Quotes from the episode:

“I think Dragonwings has been part of a collective dream... let’s not have to do a lot of wiring in the field. Why can’t we just have something to drop it down and it opens up and does the thing?”

— Dr. Ryan Wartena

“This may be one of the fastest ways to deploy renewables if we can build solar generators like cars... the economics are there, and now it’s about that speed.”

— Dr. Ryan Wartena

Transcript:

Aaron Nichols: Ryan, I’m so excited to finally meet you. Ever since I saw a video of Dragonwings just unfolding out of the shipping container, like some sort of amazing sci-fi robot, I’ve wanted to meet you and talk to you. Would you please introduce yourself, just kind of discuss your background in the solar industry a little bit and talk about the creation of Dragonwings?

Dr. Ryan Wartena: Absolutely. Well, thank you, Aaron. I’m Dr. Ryan Wartena. I’m the CEO and founder of Southern Beams Builds, and we build Dragonwing Solar Generators. It’s the first to market three-phase power renewable solar generator with all integrated solar, batteries, power conversion, and the key point is it has enough solar panels to generate enough energy to feed a three-phase power system.

And so it’s been a bit of a dream. I think Dragonwings has been part of a collective dream that anyone who’s been involved with solar has been kind of wanting as far as like—let’s not have to do a lot of wiring in the field. Why can’t we just have something to drop it down and it opens up and does the thing?

A bit of my background: I have a PhD in industrial electrochemical engineering from Georgia Tech. I did a postdoc at the Naval Research Lab where I started developing micro battery technologies and then another postdoc at MIT for Professor Yat-Ming Chiang while he was starting up A123. My job was on the self-assembling battery. But through all of that, I realized like, even if we had the “everlasting gobstopper” of batteries, we’d really need an energy operating system to coordinate batteries with solar, the grid, and all the loads.

Aaron Nichols: Mm.

Dr. Ryan Wartena: In 2008, I founded a company called Geli—Growing Energy Labs Incorporated. We were pioneers in software for energy storage, and we sold that company in 2020 to Hanwha Q-cells. After that, I took a step back and looked at how long it took to develop commercial solar storage. I saw productized solutions for residential and utility scales, but nothing for commercial and industrial (C&I). C&I starts at say 20 or 30 kilowatt power and can scale up to a megawatt.

Commercial developers didn’t want to develop small projects because there was as much headache as a bigger project. What if we can provide a product that, as soon as it’s delivered, is ready to provide power service? That’s where Dragonwings came from—a desire to build an all-in-one system to productize solar, building power plants like cars on a production line.

Aaron Nichols: Right. That’s, I think, the thing that I love the most. The cool factor is just so off the charts. Go to dragonwings.co, just watch the video, watch these things unfolding. They’re such a statement. So obviously you were solving a problem in the market, but how important were aesthetics in the design process?

Dr. Ryan Wartena: I am an artist, and I love to make things beautiful. Back at Geli, our first energy storage system in 2006—instead of putting it into a gray box, I designed a turquoise hexagon. We’ve been blind to power systems; we just know they work. There’s always been an intention here to make whatever we do absolutely beautiful.

The design for Dragonwings was functionality-driven. We wanted it to open at the push of a button and not take up much ground space. That led to the horizontal scissor design, which we have a patent on. The form factor was inspired by a 20-foot shipping container—they go everywhere, they’re standardized on fork pockets and corner posts. So the beauty followed the engineering. It is the beginning of solar robotics and robotic architecture.

Aaron Nichols: Now, just to bring the story down to Earth—what can an average Dragonwing power? How many EV chargers would the average one be able to handle?

Dr. Ryan Wartena: We put four level-two chargers on Dragonwings. In the wintertime, we’re going to make between 50 and 70 kilowatt-hours; in the summertime, up to 150. So we can do like two cars in the winter and six cars in the summer. We recently sold a unit to Hyundai and they’ve been using it every day this winter charging one or two cars.

Aaron Nichols: I think another obvious place my mind goes is disaster zones or places that need to be electrified. Is that something y’all have worked on?

Dr. Ryan Wartena: Absolutely. Dragonwings can be multi-use. You can use them for charging construction equipment or EVs most of the time, and when there is a disaster, they can be utilized for emergency response. We’re working with state agencies in California and organizations like Direct Relief and the Footprint Project on this.

Aaron Nichols: Yeah, and the portability is a huge asset.

Dr. Ryan Wartena: One of the design goals was to make sure we could put two of them onto a 53-foot flatbed trailer. We have a potential military application coming up for exactly that. Because we fit into the shipping container ecosystem, we fit right into the global logistics industry.

Aaron Nichols: Very cool. And what’s been your crowning moment so far?

Dr. Ryan Wartena: We have two Dragonwings at Levi’s Stadium right now for the Super Bowl. They’ve been operating great in conjunction with Sunbelt Rentals. We also had units at the Google I/O conference. NextTracker bought a Dragonwing and has been using it for nearly two years on construction sites.

Aaron Nichols: I imagine it’s faster to put a hundred Dragonwings in a field than to build a traditional project.

Dr. Ryan Wartena: I believe that too, Aaron. We’re talking with Tier 1 construction companies who are building data centers. We’ve actually started looking at our first data center rack over here that we’ll be putting into a Dragonwing to do certified renewable AI compute. Delivering Dragonwings to a site the day you sign a lease means you can start generating revenue immediately.

Aaron Nichols: Roughly how many Dragonwings exist in the world today?

Dr. Ryan Wartena: We’ve built eight. One prototype and seven that are all online and deployed across California, Arizona, and the Mojave Desert.

Aaron Nichols: Nice. Haven’t they been deployed at Burning Man yet?

Dr. Ryan Wartena: All of them have been to Burning Man. This last year we had five Dragonwings powering a whole village of 330 people—kitchens, sound systems, and even an electric sauna.

Aaron Nichols: If you had your way, where is it going?

Dr. Ryan Wartena: I see it developing into fields of Dragonwings for fast setup. This may be one of the fastest ways to deploy renewables if we can build solar generators like cars. We’ve had inbounds from over 50 countries. A lot of the world runs on gas and diesel generators at the edge of the world; I’d love to see us have an international reach and develop projects of 20 or 50 megawatts.

Aaron Nichols: I hammer on this all the time—there are enough parking lots in this country to cover several states.

Dr. Ryan Wartena: Exactly. Through my experience at Geli, I saw the hurdles of C&I solar. Often it’s a REIT that owns the building, managed by a management company, with a short-term lease. No one is motivated to put in fixed solar. But with Dragonwings, you can. It doesn’t necessarily increase the property value or the taxes because it’s mobile. Having that flexibility and multipurpose use is what opens the market.

Aaron Nichols: Ryan, what do you believe clean energy looks like 80 years from now?

Dr. Ryan Wartena: In 1999, I asked myself the same question. At the time, it looked like it would take 1,000 years to get to 100% renewables. Then China stepped in and increased solar panel production by 10x, and financial solutions like PPAs gave it another step function. I’d like to believe in 80 years, we will be running on 500% or 700% renewable energy. I think we can get to near 100% in the 2030s.

AI and electric vehicles are asking us for more and more energy, so it’s about who can build and deploy it fastest. I can see the world running on 500% renewables in our lifetime.

Aaron Nichols: If you like to be found online, where do you like to be found?

Dr. Ryan Wartena: LinkedIn is a great place. We have an Instagram under Southern Beams, or you can contact me directly at ryan@southernbeams.com.

Aaron Nichols: Ryan, thank you so much. That’s been This Week in Solar.

Dr. Ryan Wartena: Awesome, thank you, Aaron.

They dive into the unnecessary red tape surrounding traditional solar installations and explore some highly unconventional, DIY ways to capture the sun’s energy without asking for permission.

Pete became an internet legend under the pseudonym Mr. Money Mustache. By optimizing his spending, earning, and investing (and always maximizing for fun while minimizing cost), Pete managed to retire at the age of 30.

Pete is also a self-proclaimed “eco-nerd” who loves harnessing the free magic energy from the sky that is solar power.

You can listen to this episode here, or on:

* YouTube

* Apple Podcasts

* Spotify

If you’ve learned something from This Week In Solar and you’d like to learn more, drop your email below, and we’ll keep sending you free solar news!

Expect to learn:

* How Pete bypassed city permits by buying cheap used solar panels on Craigslist and wiring them directly into his electric water heater for free hot water.

* Why solar is so expensive in the United States compared to countries like Germany and Australia (hint: it’s mostly administrative red tape).

* Pete’s wild DIY trick using a $20 farmer’s bucket heater and a direct solar connection to turn his hot tub into a 120-degree cauldron of free, sun-powered hot water.

* How to make sure you’re working with a reputable, locally owned solar installer like Exact Solar.

Quote from the episode:

“It takes very little resources to manufacture a solar panel... You put it in the sun, it's paid back its manufacturing costs within something like three months in terms of the embodied energy. And then it's like 30 more years of profit that you're helping the earth.”

— Pete (Mr. Money Mustache)

Transcript:

Aaron Nichols Hey guys, a quick note before today’s episode with Mr. Money Mustache. Pete, who I interview, has a huge risk tolerance. He’s known for doing out-there things and he’s gonna describe some things that are pretty unsafe. Now, if you are interested in putting solar on your home, consult with qualified professionals. Electricity is no joke. You can really hurt yourself and we would hate to see that. So, please talk to us at X-ACC Solar if you live in New Jersey or Pennsylvania, if you’re thinking of putting solar on your home, and do not go messing around with the electricity in your own home unless you have qualifications. Now, without further ado, enjoy today’s interview with Mr. Money Mustache.

Aaron Nichols Pete, I know you as Pete. The world knows you as Mr. Money Mustache. Not too long ago, you asked me to help you break down the solar energy system you’d put on your roof and you’d done something really unique with it. So I’d like to launch into that story.

Mr. Money Mustache (Pete) Oh yeah. Sure. Okay. So the background is that I’m an electrical guy in the past, like an electrical engineer, and I’ve done wiring, full houses. So I’m comfortable with all your electricity stuff. But what I don’t like is a lot of red tape and permits and high fees that usually comes with solar, especially like the city we’re in right now, Longmont, is a little bit solar unfriendly compared to some other cities. So I just had a bunch of solar panels that I got off of Craigslist and I wired them up and really just chucked them onto my roof. I didn’t even mount them. I just made like a little metal frame and set them in there. And then I ran that DC current right into an electric water heater. And because of the principles of electricity, a heating element doesn’t care whether you’ve done gone through a fancy inverter and made AC or not, it’s just like solar panels right into the water heater and then I got free hot water for like a year and a half total cost of like just the cost of the solar panels on Craigslist so maybe like $800 of solar panels and I made about $400 of electricity with them in just the first, like per year I guess. So it’s like a giant return on investment compared to these systems where you spend many thousands of dollars in order to save like a little bit more per year. But it takes like sometimes 15 or 20 years to pay it back.

Aaron Nichols So for anyone who doesn’t know, I mean you have written online and published all sorts of stuff about how to financially and how otherwise optimize your life. Would you just give the audience an overview of who you are, what you’re about.

Mr. Money Mustache (Pete) Yeah, okay, that’s a bigger story. I, on the internet, I write as Mr. Money Mustache, although my real identity is not a secret either. And the basic idea is I like to optimize everything, maximizing for fun, preferably at minimal cost, especially when I was younger, when I didn’t have a lot of money. So what that led to is optimizing my whole spending and earning and investing. And it led to me being able to retire when I was 30 years old, just in time to start raising a child, get married, raising a kid and now I’ve been retired for like almost 22 years because I’m like coming up on 52 years old so it’s just been like a giant fun story of freedom and then I decided to start writing about this at some point and that’s where the Mr. Money Mustache blog was born.

Aaron Nichols Yeah and you’ve been a big fan of solar for a long time I mean the building we’re sitting in now which for anyone who doesn’t know you own this building it’s like half co-working space half community center yeah and it is powered by the Sun.

Mr. Money Mustache (Pete) Yeah somewhat like it’s a grid-tied solar system and during the summer it makes more electricity than we use and during the winter it runs a deficit so we have to pay a power bill and pull it out of the grid.

Aaron Nichols So why are you such a fan of solar?

Mr. Money Mustache (Pete) Just because it’s magic free energy from the sky. It’s like raining the equivalent of money down onto you everywhere on earth. So why wouldn’t you want to harvest it? It just seems super cool to me.

Aaron Nichols Yeah. I remember, I mean, you’re actually one of the reasons I wound up in the solar industry was reading your story of how you actually got solar on this building.

Mr. Money Mustache (Pete) Oh, I didn’t know that.

Aaron Nichols Yeah. This was years ago before I was still a vagabond just traveling before I decided to do the installer training that I did and everything that took me here I was just like my god he made solar sound so cool.

Mr. Money Mustache (Pete) Yeah well thanks. Yeah. And I also like it because I’m a closet eco nerd as well right like I care about the environment I don’t like pollution so anytime I can displace fossil fuels with clean energy I like that too. But if you do it with the right little tweaks on how you do it it can be more profitable and less hassle and that’s also what I like.

Aaron Nichols So let’s talk about ways that people can use this amazing technology without permission and also how they can be safe doing so.

Mr. Money Mustache (Pete) Yeah. Yeah. Some of the stuff I do is not always safe.

Aaron Nichols I’ve been with you for some of those experiences.

Mr. Money Mustache (Pete) Yeah. Like when we took the tree down to the coworking space.

Aaron Nichols Oh yeah. Some big heavy stuff falling down.

Mr. Money Mustache (Pete) Yeah. I’m a little bit of a honey badger. I might have used up a couple of my nine lives if I were a cat. So don’t exactly do what I do, but you can choose the things that are safe. So what I would recommend... What first comes to mind with today’s solar environment is you buy one of those like all-in-one solar generator battery units, have dropped in price so much. Your solar panels go straight into that and it’s just got a bunch of plugs on the front. And if you get a big enough one, you can have thousands of watts of solar going in there and thousands of watts coming out to power all your stuff, like your hot tub and your electric car and anything else that uses a lot of power. And it can be completely off grid. So you don’t need a permit to do it. And that’s the easiest way to get comfortable and have some fun with solar. And then you can scale up from there. And then there’s like the new laws, which you might mention in this podcast that allow you to have like a mini grid tide system, right?

Aaron Nichols Yeah.

Mr. Money Mustache (Pete) Then of course, if you have a big enough house and a big enough budget, then it starts to shift over to become profitable to do the big array and make it grid tied. And that’s what we did here at this building because I really wanted it to make a surplus of power and then, you know, get credits that last through the seasons.

Aaron Nichols Yeah. Big fan of the battery option, just getting a little battery and plugging appliances into it because power’s just getting more and more expensive. Like you said, those things are cheap and that’s such a great option, especially for, let’s say, renters who don’t own their home. They don’t have the option to put solar on their roofs, but their bills just keep going up and up. There’s nothing stopping you. And it’s not even dangerous from buying a solar panel on Craigslist, buying a battery bank on Craigslist and plugging your refrigerator into it. Yeah, and the cool thing is, especially I moved from Longmont to Denver, in Denver we have time of use pricing and from 5 to 9 p.m. each day the price triples just for those few hours. So you can do tricks like have one of those batteries on a little timer, even if you didn’t have solar it could just charge from the grid and then it flips off the power supply at 5 o’clock and then your fridge runs from 5 to 9 on cheap power and then it recharges itself after hours, simplest system of all. We can later like put in the show notes or something exactly how this would work. So that’s level one. Or if you plug some solar panels into that low cost battery, then you don’t even have to charge it from the grid. Anytime you have time of use pricing, then it becomes like typically at least twice as valuable to do some solar tricks, right? Because you’re displacing the more expensive power.

Mr. Money Mustache (Pete) Right.

Aaron Nichols And you powered your hot tub as well, you said, with that same system that you were using for your water heater.

Mr. Money Mustache (Pete) Yeah, it was kind of similar. Not exactly. But what I did is I bought this what’s called a bucket heater. You can buy these things on Amazon. They’re like $20 and typically they’re used by farmers. It looks like a curling iron, but it’s meant to be dunked into water and you plug it into an AC plug. And it just heats up a five gallon bucket of water for like farm use or whatever. But it turns out if you leave one of those plugged in and dunked in your hot tub, it’ll heat the whole thing up just fairly slowly and just like any resistive heater you can run it on AC or DC, right? So I had my bank of 12 solar panels on my roof running down, I put like a normal household plug on the end of those wires and I just plugged in this farmer bucket heater and it was actually a little bit overpowered so it was putting out a little bit more than it was supposed to which is still safe because it’s underwater and it would heat the whole hot tub sometimes like in the right season I would get home and my hot tub would be like 120 degrees wow like I’d actually have to cool it down before I got in it’s just like a giant cauldron and make some soup in there. So that was fun because you know hot tubs are fun all the time. But they’re even more fun if you know that it was heated by the Sun that day.

Aaron Nichols Yeah, this is what I love about solar energy man is that there’s like obviously we have these big utility scale solar farms and those are cool in their own way, but just like the creative stories I hear from people like yeah, Keely my wife and I. Shortly after we got married to celebrate she bought me a yurt trip and we snowshoed in in January to a yurt up north of Fort Collins like three miles in and the whole thing was powered by solar and a big Blue Eddy battery bank. So you had your fireplace and you could just grab dead wood from outside, warm yourself with the fireplace and then you had string lights to charge your devices or you know light to play UNO by in the night or...

Mr. Money Mustache (Pete) It’s amazing. It is fun. If you happen to appreciate it, like most people do, it just feels more magical to just think about the electricity you’re using and how it shone from the sky onto you and then you’re using it that night.

Aaron Nichols So what I know that you’re a big fan of reducing waste in general and you also talk a lot on your show about how the average American just wastes so much. So what mindset do you think needs to change for people to get on board more with solar?

Mr. Money Mustache (Pete) Well, I like it to be... Like people have to know how simple it is. And like there’s still a lot of misconceptions because solar is still a bit of a political topic in the U.S. Right. So people have been brainwashed into thinking that it’s not good or it’s not cost saving or that there’s some hidden environmental damage that you’re not seeing and then you’re only seeing the nice part of it. But like none of that is true. It is just purely all good. It takes very little resources to manufacture a solar panel in it. You put it in the sun, it’s paid back its manufacturing costs within something like three months in terms of the embodied energy. And then it’s like 30 more years of profit that you’re helping the earth. So I think the main thing is just... people of all types, you know, and all political persuasions and all different audiences should just get to know it and share it with their audiences or share it with your friends if you’re not a content creator or whatever. And the word should spread. But I think the real key is it has to be simple because with the salesman that comes to your door with a clipboard and tries to sell you like $25,000 overpriced sale, like overpriced solar system, that makes everybody think it’s complicated and expensive, which it doesn’t have to be.

Aaron Nichols Yeah, well and a lot of that I mean as someone who works for a solar installer so much of the cost is permitting.

Mr. Money Mustache (Pete) Yeah, it’s the labor to get the labor and time to get paperwork through local bureaucracy.

Aaron Nichols Yeah, and multiple inspections and they want you to change your work, right?

Mr. Money Mustache (Pete) It was already done. Well the first time right like unnecessary structural things.

Aaron Nichols Yeah, the panels are lightweight.

Mr. Money Mustache (Pete) Just bunch of junk like that.

Aaron Nichols I was having a conversation about this with someone last night at one of the Colorado climate week off. And we were talking about how, you know, there’s countries that have streamlined the process. Like Germany is an example. Australia is an example where there’s a national process and it’s much easier to go solar and therefore solar costs a lot less. But here in the States, it basically comes down to local egotism. It’s like people saying, well, our process is way too important for us to streamline. We have to do stormwater and we have to do all this stuff. And but yet there’s people who have done it.

Mr. Money Mustache (Pete) Yeah I know well people who work for cities and building departments like they don’t always have the same incentives. Right. Like if they were paid based on how many solar systems got installed or even how happy the homeowners are about the solar system, about the policies, then they would have different incentives and they’d do a better job. Right now, their incentive is just to keep their jobs. Which is like, well, okay, you tell me what rules to enforce and I’ll enforce them really well. That’s how I keep my job, which is obviously gonna lead to some shitty types of customer experiences when we’re the customer.

Aaron Nichols If you wanted to, let’s say, leave the audience with just a quick tip for anyone who wants to get started tomorrow, save some money with Solar. I think we might have already covered it, but you’ve done so much of this.

Mr. Money Mustache (Pete) Yeah, would buy... I wouldn’t do the DC hot water thing that I did or anything like that. If you have a hot tub, then the curling iron solution could work and we could include a diagram of how to do it because that’s not too dangerous. But if you really want to be safe, just buy a portable generator, as they call that, like a solar generator, which is really just a battery pack with a solar input and then various outputs. Buy one of those and you can get like a pretty big one, like a one kilowatt hour one off Amazon for about three hundred dollars now. It used to be a thousand dollars. And then you just buy some solar panels on Craigslist. So don’t buy the solar panels of the same brand like Blue Ready or whatever, because they’ll be hundreds of dollars for like just a few hundred watts of panels. You buy them on Craigslist where it’s like 50 bucks for a 200 to 300 watt panel. As long as you have a place to set that out in your driveway or a balcony or wherever else, then you’re immediately producing a lot of power. Then... How much you save is a little bit debatable because, you know, it depends on how much you spend on the equipment, how sunny it is where you live, how much the power costs where you live, but it’ll definitely be fun regardless of what you do.

Aaron Nichols Yeah.

Mr. Money Mustache (Pete) And then the savings come when you start to have more solar panels that are going into a big load that typically uses a lot of electricity, which is why I went straight to heating because heat takes tons of energy. So anytime you can heat your house or some water, then you don’t need storage. It’s just going to the water and that’s when the numbers start to add up to like significant dollars that people might care about.

Aaron Nichols Yeah, that makes a ton of sense. I mean, I have a solar panel and a battery bank. I use them when I’m camping, but I will occasionally like plug our little toaster oven into the battery bank when we’re just heating up bagels. And you’re not going to save much, right? Like your toaster oven, even though that’s a high wattage device, it’s still only using 10 to 15 cents an hour of electricity. Like a bunch of dimes don’t really add up very fast.

Mr. Money Mustache (Pete) True but it’s that mental just I didn’t have to pay for this.

Aaron Nichols Yeah and so that’s really nice.

Mr. Money Mustache (Pete) I actually enjoy that so much that I’m still gonna do it anyway.

Aaron Nichols Right.

Mr. Money Mustache (Pete) It all depends on you know start small and learn and then you can always go bigger later as well.

Aaron Nichols Yeah so I’m very excited to ask you this last question because I’ve read your blog for so long and I know that you’re also like an urban planning enthusiast and kind of a futurist in some ways but I ask everyone who comes on this show the same closing question. I thought of it when I spoke at my grandma’s 80th birthday party last year. After speaking at her birthday party, I realized that 80 years means that my grandma was born into a world where what we call renewable energy effectively didn’t exist. The whole journey of solar PV basically from the invention of the cell to it being the cheapest power source in the world now happened within my grandma’s lifetime. Before that, like we had basically barely figured out how to harness electricity. The only way we knew how to make it was just digging stuff up, bringing it to a central place and burning it and sending it out.

Mr. Money Mustache (Pete) Yeah. Oh, we did have, um, how old is hydropower with electric dams and stuff?

Aaron Nichols Think that’s getting close to as, as a world as electricity itself.

Mr. Money Mustache (Pete) It is. Yeah.

Aaron Nichols But the question I ask everyone who comes on, so knowing that we’ve seen so much change in the last 80 years and we’ve gone from within one person’s lifetime not having this to it now being the most effective way to generate electricity. What do you think energy looks like 80 years from now?

Mr. Money Mustache (Pete) Oh, I think it’s going to be pretty abundant because there’s no way it’s going to get more expensive. It’s not like in the old days when I worried about peak oil and we’re like, oh, the oil is going to run out and then we’re going to, it’s good. The price is going to go up and it’s going to be terrible. It’s only going to get cheaper. The sun’s not going anywhere. So it’s gonna, I think you’ll just see more abundant electricity at lower prices and then we’ll think of more fun stuff to do with it. Like hot tubs for everybody. And like obviously electric cars, will eventually be electric airplanes as the batteries get higher density. And of course now with AI data centers, we’ve thought of lots of ways to burn tons of electricity too. So thank goodness solar arrived just in time for that because we’re gonna need like many gigawatts of that generation as well.

Aaron Nichols Yeah, you’re lucky you retired before AI.

Mr. Money Mustache (Pete) Oh yeah, because it would make me obsolete.

Aaron Nichols Maybe, yeah, I don’t know.

Mr. Money Mustache (Pete) But I feel that people... people who are in technology and also understand how to use AI, their worth is getting magnified because it’s basically you have a bunch of workers that work for you and you command this army of super intelligent robots. Yeah. And so the people who have mastered that are making more money than ever and being more productive than ever.

Aaron Nichols I’ve heard of this. It’s like bring your own software, bring your own agents to your next job.

Mr. Money Mustache (Pete) Yeah. Where you don’t want to be is like, you know, a customer, a telephone customer service representative, because an AI already can do better than that, even with the voice. That can even have the voice. There will be some jobs displaced, every past generation of technology has always just created more jobs, even while it erased obsolete jobs. So I think that’ll be true with AI too. We’ll see.

Aaron Nichols Well, where do you like to be found if you do want to be found? Online or otherwise?

Mr. Money Mustache (Pete) Yeah. Well, online is good since we’re creating a podcast right now. So just Mr. Money Mustache, if you look me up. You’ll find my website. You’ll find any other stuff that I’ve done. And if you’re local to Colorado and the Denver area, then you can always, you could even see where we’re hanging out right here, which is the PHI collective. PHI stands for financial independence. And it’s our social club and coworking space where we have now like about a hundred members who live around here and socialize and work together and stuff. So this is the real thing that’s... That’s more fun is in person socializing rather than just online.

Aaron Nichols Yeah. Well, thank you so much for taking the time and for coming on and for everyone listening. That’s been this week in solar. I’m honored to be a guest next week.

The House GOP passed their draft budget on Tuesday, targeting clean energy provisions from the Inflation Reduction Act (IRA).

Senate Republicans say the bill is only a starting point and that key changes will be needed.

What the House bill does:

The draft legislation from the Ways and Means Committee would:

* Eliminate the residential solar tax credit (25D) after 2025

* Phase down utility-scale credits (48E and 45Y) starting in 2029, ending by 2032

* Preserve the manufacturing credit (45X) through 2031, then end it abruptly

* Eliminate credit transferability two years after enactment

* Shift eligibility for the credits from "start of construction" to "placed in service."

* Impose sourcing restrictions linked to Foreign Entities of Concern (FEOC restrictions)

* Allocate $2 billion to the Strategic Petroleum Reserve

* Propose broader fossil fuel permitting reforms

Senate Republicans push back:

Several Senate Republicans say the House bill goes too far and lacks flexibility.

* Sen. Kevin Cramer (R-ND) said the 2029 phaseout is too soon for newer technologies like advanced nuclear and geothermal: "It's too short for truly new technologies."

* Cramer has proposed ending credits only for "mature technologies" like wind and solar.

* Sen. Shelley Moore Capito (R-WV) called the House approach a "blanket repeal" and said she expects it to change.

* Sen. John Hoeven (R-ND) described the bill as a starting point for negotiations.

As we know, four Senate Republicans warned that repealing IRA credits could raise energy prices and undercut recent manufacturing gains in an April letter.

However, 21 House Republicans previously advocated for the Inflation Reduction Act shortly after President Trump’s election, yet voted for the current bill, which is effectively a repeal.

What's next:

* House Republicans aim for a floor vote before Memorial Day.

* The Senate is expected to write its own version of the bill.

* Any changes in the Senate would require a second House vote.

The bottom line:

The House bill would significantly scale back clean energy incentives, especially for behind-the-meter solar. Senate Republicans have indicated they want a different approach, meaning the current proposal is unlikely to pass as written.

Solar is Top Source of New Electricity-Generating Capacity for 19th Month in a Row

Solar energy continues to dominate U.S. electricity growth.

March 2025 marked the 19th consecutive month that solar was the largest source of new generating capacity, according to new data from the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC).

By the numbers:

* 31 solar projects came online in March, totaling 446 MW

* In Q1 2025, solar and wind provided 7,076 MW, or 97.8% of all new capacity

* Natural gas, once dominant, added just 147 MW in the first quarter (only 2% of the total)

* Oil added a marginal 11 MW

Solar's share of new capacity:

* 66.6% in March

* 72.3% for the first quarter

* Solar has been the top source of new capacity since September 2023

Context:

* Just five years ago, solar made up only 3.8% of capacity

* Ten years ago: 1.0%

* Solar's share of new capacity has increased more than tenfold in a decade

Texas Senate Passes Bill, Could Penalize Solar Without Backup Power if Passed By House

New legislation in Texas would require solar projects to purchase backup power or face financial penalties. Developers would need to buy backup power through natural gas or battery storage.

What’s in the bills:

* Companion bills HB 3356 and SB 715 aim to address perceived grid “reliability” issues

* The Senate passed SB 715; House version is still pending a vote

* The bill would apply to both new and existing solar projects

The key provision:

Solar plants would have to “match” their power output at night, when they aren’t normally expected to produce electricity.

If not, they’d be required to buy backup power or face fines.

Critics warn:

* Legislation could shut down existing solar operations

* It may raise electricity costs by $5.2 billion/year, according to the Texas Association of Business

* Consumers could pay $225 more per year

Part of a broader trend:

This is the third major Texas Senate bill aimed at limiting renewable growth:

* Senate Bill 388 would require 1 MW of new gas for every new MW of renewables

* Senate Bill 819 seeks to restrict land leasing for solar and wind

Why it matters:

The legislation reflects a shift in Texas GOP politics.

Despite 80% of Republican voters believing that renewables improve grid stability, recent primaries reduced pro-renewable energy voices in the state House.

Our Sources:

Draft budget kills residential ITC, preserves large-scale and manufacturing credits

Solar ticks 19th consecutive month as largest source of new electricity capacity in US

Defend American Energy - Solar Powers America

Senate Republicans Balk at House Plan to Gut Energy Tax Cuts - Bloomberg

Texas bill would require solar developers to pay for natural gas or energy storage backup power

Texas Senate passes bill requiring solar plants to provide power at night

With 30 years of experience running issue campaigns and the last several focused on clean energy, Ayelet brings a political organizer’s mindset to one of solar’s biggest bottlenecks: local opposition and permitting.

She argues that what many solar developers treat as a technical or PR problem is actually a political problem with known solutions, if the industry is willing to change how it communicates.

Listen to this episode on:

* YouTube

* Apple Podcasts

* Spotify

Connect with Ayelet on LinkedIn here.

Expect to learn:

* How oil and gas successfully branded themselves as rugged, rural, and patriotic, while painting renewables as coastal, elitist, and out of touch.

* Why developers lose the “race to define” their projects, and how that creates a vacuum opponents happily fill with fear-based narratives.

* What rural voters actually care about, based on research in The Rural Voter.

Quotes from the episode:

“You need facts to win, but facts are not why you win. You win because a trusted person in the local official’s sphere of influence vouches for you.” - Ayelet Hines

“Community engagement is not a side show. It is the fulcrum on which this industry lives or dies.” - Ayelet Hines

Transcript:

Aaron Nichols:Hello, everyone, and welcome back to this week in solar. As always, I’m your host, Aaron Nichols, the Research and Policy Specialist here in Newtown, Pennsylvania.And today’s guest is Ayelet Hines from Tigercom. And Ayelet, would you mind introducing yourself, introducing Tigercom, and talking a bit more about your background in the solar industry?

Ayelet Hines:Sure thing. Ayelet Hines, VP of Community Engagement at Tigercom, which is a clean tech communications PR firm based on the Washington DC area.And I have spent the last 30 years leading issue campaigns to change policies at all levels of government, and for the past four or so years, I’ve been really focused on helping developers apply political campaign thinking to their efforts to win a permit.

Aaron Nichols:Okay. So where do you think developers miss the mark when communicating with communities that they’re trying to develop in clean energy projects in?

Ayelet Hines:In 2023, I interviewed 26 developers at 18 different companies to try to really understand what was happening with this problem because it’s clear to me as a political person, this is a political problem with a solution that this can be solved with money and there’s nothing so unique about this political problem that we don’t know how to solve it.So I interviewed all these developers and I asked them, what are you seeing, what are opponents doing to you. Why are they doing it? What are you doing?

And one of the first things I noticed is that developers leave a communications vacuum. There’s something that we call the race to define. Like so much about winning in politics is being the first. You got to be the first in to local officials, reporters, anyone who you want to really hear your message.You got to be in the room and and inculcate them with your message before the opposition does that. If you don’t do that, you’re leaving a communications vacuum that your opponents will then fill with their fear-base emotionally connected message.

And so what I found is that developers were losing the race to define themselves, the project, their land owners, and responding to opposition too late and with fact sheets, so human, like the research is clear on this. Humans are emotional creatures. First, rational creatures are very distant second. We can be no other way.

So like this industry is comprised of a lot of really smart people who have a lot of technical expertise, but we can’t lead with that. We have to lead with trusted messengers. We know today, especially, the messenger matters more than the message and developers usually are not culturally credible trusted people when they enter a community.

Aaron Nichols:Okay, so people need to hear from people like them and often developers aren’t like them or don’t know how to speak to them is what you’re saying.

Ayelet Hines:Correct. So one of the things that the Oral and Gas industry has been very successful at is positioning themselves as rugged, part of rural and the real America, hard, manly man work, patriotic.And the renewable energy sector has been positioned by them as for like liberal coastal, prehistidriving beta males.

I mean, you see that on shows like Tulsa King, Land Man, like there’s an episode of Tulsa King in which Sylvester Stallone who plays his character called Dwight, he ends up in a holding cell in Tulsa with this little man who had just been beaten up by the cell bully and they get in this conversation about what are you in for? And the little man says, a green energy scam.

This whole conversation about how renewables are a government creation, they’re fraud. And we let that happen to us, right? Hollywood writers are for sale. And that is one of a hundred ways we are not positioning ourselves as part of rural America, right?

So where is our space to build utility scale projects that we need to transition away from fossil fuels? It is in rural counties and these counties vote for Trump by a lot. That wouldn’t have been a problem 15 years ago, right? Like renewables used to be about private property right which is why Texas is number one and Iowa number two in solar.

But renewables got pulled into the culture wars on the eve of Obama’s re-election campaign, right. Have you ever heard of the word Salindra?

Aaron Nichols:I am vaguely familiar but I’d be happy to have you lay it out.

Ayelet Hines:Sure. So Obama’s opponents were looking for something to tarnish him with and so they turned to his Department of Energy which had a guaranteed federal loan program. They were making loans to clean tech companies.These were investments that most investors would probably find too risky to put their money in. But one of the companies that got a loan from this very successful loan program is called Selendra.

They got their loan, a couple of years later, they filed for bankruptcy. There was no wrongdoing in the Selendra case at all. No one spent a minute before a judge because there was no this fake non-scandal about Selendra and they spent $800 million on attack ads, most of which aired on Fox News.

And it was at that moment that we watched support for renewables among white Republican men crater from 94% support to 47% support. So the Selendra fake scandal was very successful in positioning renewables as outsiders.

That is a barrier that, in a perfect world, you would have tried to overcome 15 years ago. So now our problem is more complicated and a lot more expensive, but we still have to do that. We have to position ourselves as compatible with a rural and agricultural way of life, which we can do.

We know how this is done. Just look at Ford Truck ads. We need to make everything we do and say look and sound like a Ford Truck ad.

Aaron Nichols:Right. I would actually agree and I think we’re very, very bad at that kind of messaging. And I think just as someone who’s relatively new here, we seem to be very hesitant to use emotional messaging.

I think sometimes we hide behind facts and we hide behind graphs, but I was very lucky earlier this year to give a talk for Switch Colorado, and I called it “Why no one wants to see a graph when they’re worried about a fire,” the story being, you know, that someone had said on a call that we sent all of our researchers to this community that was worried about battery fires with charts and graphs and they got shouted down.

And my first thought was, of course, they got shouted down. If I was worried about a fire and someone said, here’s a graph, I’d be like, get out of my house.

And I think we seem to be hesitant. It’s almost like, you can tell, correct me if I’m wrong here, but we seem to be hesitant to play by the same rules. It’s like fossil fuel has decided to play very, very dirty and we are really wanting to take the high road, but we just keep losing and losing and losing.

Ayelet Hines:Yeah. And just to be clear here, I’m not taking on oil and gas, because they are rational actors. There are lots of industries that do what they do, right? Look at McDonald’s, Coca-Cola, right? Like these brands, these industries have really wrapped themselves around every aspect of life. And that’s what we just have not done.

So the hesitancy for us to do that, well, I think renewables, like people who work in the sector think that the truth will set them free all while facts are on our side. That is just not how humans operate.

Aaron Nichols:Right. I like to say no one is sitting around waiting for a graph that proves them wrong.

Ayelet Hines:I love that. I love that.

You know, there’s an 80-20 rule in campaigns and it is like I see organizations, companies spend 80% of their resources trying to convince people to agree with them through charts and maps and graphs and videos and all the stuff. And only 20% of their resources applying pressure or creating the political cover that local officials need to feel in order to support projects.

And by political cover and pressure, I mean one-on-one meetings, letters, phone calls, right? Things that let local officials know that people whose voices they care about are paying attention.

And we need to flip that around. We should spend 80% of our resources applying pressure, giving political cover, and only 20% trying to convince people to agree with us. And I’ll tell you, I don’t care if a local official likes what I’m up to. I only care how he votes.

Aaron Nichols:Right. So where do you think that, why do you think that ratio is so skewed for people that work in renewable energy. Where do you think that that mistake in thinking comes from?

Ayelet Hines:Being really smart and thinking that just really believing in your data.

Aaron Nichols:Right. Okay. Well, knowing that people are emotional first, logical second, that people only look for facts if they already believe emotionally charged stories, what have you learned about working hand-in-hand with rural communities to deploy clean energy while also making sure they feel heard.

Ayelet Hines:Right. So feeling heard, people need to feel heard way upstream from where most developers start having conversations in communities. I know a lot of developers are afraid to poke the bear.

The bear is already poked. 25% of counties have passed bans on renewables. That number doubles every three years. At this rate we can expect that by 2030 about 40% of counties are going to be off limits to renewables, like markets are literally closing.

So you need facts to win but facts are not why you win. You win because you get some trustworthy person in the sphere of influence of the local official to vouch for you. So let’s say you have awesome tax revenue numbers. Like we’re going to bring all this tax revenue, create all these jobs, we’re going to then generate all this economic activity.

Don’t go straight to local officials with that information. Your first stop should be with the local economic development person, the local tax authority, someone who brings authenticity. Go get their blessing first.

Show them your numbers. Say, do these numbers look good? Yes, they do. Then you can shop those numbers around, say, local tax guy, local economic development guy signed off on our numbers. He says that they look good.

So you’re borrowing that person’s credibility for your own project, you cannot depend on your data alone.

Aaron Nichols:Absolutely. And so when you say that we also need to talk to people further downstream, does that mean that sometimes people are just, you know, moving the project along as far as they can and then coming to the community and saying, hey, how do you feel about this? But they haven’t consulted the community to begin with.

Ayelet Hines:Well, the number one complaint that rural Americans have against developers, they say developers are going into communities cutting back room deals with politicians and letting everyone else know about a project after the fact.

We need to remove the possibility of that accusation by going into these places much earlier. What about engineering an invitation to come in? How revolutionary would that be? What if you asked people, what do you want for the future of your community? And would hosting a project help you achieve that?

Yes, it would. Or only if it met these conditions. Great. Let’s have a conversation.

Aaron Nichols:Right. And then you have people fighting for you and trying to get that across the finish line with you rather than you fighting upstream.

I mean, as someone who grew up in a small town, I can definitely tell you, you know, like, if you grow up in a town of 2000 people, if you piss off Jim, we’re all pissed off. Like Jim is gonna tell Sally who works at the cafe. Sally is gonna tell Jane who works at the flower shop and pretty soon, everyone is against what you’re trying to do.

Ayelet Hines:No, the rumor mill starts with the first knock on a landowner’s door or when that first letter hits a land owner’s mailbox that alerts the community that you are in town snooping around, so even like an interest letter to a land owner.

If you don’t get out and ahead of that, you are too late and your problem just got more difficult and more expensive to solve.

Aaron Nichols:That’s interesting. Do you think that there’s something there that people misunderstand about rural Americans? Because I think it could be possible that, you know, for people who live in cities, maybe they don’t know their neighbors in the same way. And maybe they are just come in and they don’t understand how things work.

Ayelet Hines:Yeah, well, I highly recommend a book called The Rural Voter, written by two political scientists at Colby College. They don’t pay me to shill their book, but I do it whenever I can, available on Audible also. But they usually have the best and most data on rural voters.

And just in case you don’t read the book, I’m going to give you the punchline. So rural Americans perceive a shared fate and have shared grievances that cause them to vote in certain ways and those three things are belief in hard work and equal opportunity, and that’s good for us because that’s where private property rights fits in.

Cultural precarity, they believe that their culture and way of life is threatened, so it is incumbent upon us to demonstrate that we are not a threat, that in fact we can help them keep what they love about the place that they live, because the third is civic pride. They love where they live. They feel safe. Cities are dangerous, full of people who don’t work as hard as they do. They believe they live in the real America.

So those shared grievances and that shared fate have helped make rural American an identity.

Aaron Nichols:Okay, well thank you for the recommendation and for sharing the three main points of the book. I mean that’s incredibly helpful and I can absolutely, you know, as someone who grew up in a small town, 100% verify that those are all true.

So to bring it home, because we are unfortunately out of time, even though I could clearly talk to you for hours, I ask every guest who comes on the same question, and it has to do with the fact that a couple months ago I was at my grandma’s 80th birthday party, and I realized as I was sitting there doing the math that her turning 80 means she was born into a world where what we call renewable energy did not exist.

We only knew how to go find things, dig them up, burn them, run out of them, and then dig more things up to burn. Those were the only ways we knew how to generate energy. She was born 10 years after the Rural Electrification Act, so where she was living had just gotten electricity. Her parents had come of age in a non-electric area. Windmills only pumped water and the first solar PV cell wasn’t invented until nine years after she was born in 1954.

Then Jimmy Carter put solar panels on the White House in 79 and then on and on and on to where we are today. I am curious just if you want to theorize, spitball, moonshot, whatever. What do you think energy is going to be, the dominant energy source, because it’s the cheapest energy source and it’s the fastest to deploy?

Ayelet Hines:I do think that if we ignore community engagement like it’s not a side show, it is the fulcrum on which this industry lives or dies. If we ignore building local support, like the political cover we build for local permitting officials is the same support that we show up and down the political food chain.

That is, like, building local support is how we get a better federal policy landscape. Until we do that we’re going to continue getting stepped on like the current administration is doing, trying to kill this industry. But I do think that in 80 years we’re going to see a lot more deployment of renewables because reality.

Aaron Nichols:I can’t wait for it. I mean we, I think we share a similar mission. We both want to tell emotional clean energy stories and, you know, make it cool to the people who don’t think it’s cool.

So I’m very grateful that you came on today. I yell at Heinz, if you want to be found where can you be found?

Ayelet Hines:You can find me at A-hines at tigercom.us, T-I-G-E-R-C-O-M-M dot us. I am leading a training on this skill set on December 3rd at RE Plus Midwest in the Chicago area.

It’s a four-hour training, very hands-on and it is by far the most economical way to get trained in this skill set. So I hope to see your listeners out there at RE Plus Midwest on December 3rd. And I’ll send you the link to the registration, you can put it in your post.

Aaron Nichols:Oh fantastic. Thank you very much. And for everyone listening, that’s been this week in solar, and we will talk to you next week.

Ayelet Hines:Thank you.

Matthew explains how his companies, Food Forest Abundance and The Commonstead, are helping families, schools, churches, and communities set up sustainable free food systems that pair naturally with solar and battery backup.

You can connect with Matthew on LinkedIn here.

Listen to this episode here, or on:

* YouTube

* Apple Podcasts

* Spotify

Expect to Learn:

* Why most people dramatically underestimate how much electricity and food they can generate on a small suburban lot.

* How solar and sustainable urban agriculture can work hand-in-hand.

* What the average person can do to make their home resilient and safe, no matter what the world throws at them.

Quotes from the Episode:

“Abundance is already here. Our food, our water, our energy – it’s all around us. We just haven’t been harnessing it the right way.”– Matthew Britt

“We don’t grow food. Nature grows the food. Our job is to work with nature instead of fighting it every step of the way.”– Matthew Britt

Transcript:

Aaron Nichols: Hello, everyone. And welcome back to This Week in Solar. I’m your host, Aaron Nichols, the research and policy specialist here at Exact Solar in Newtown, Pennsylvania.And today’s guest is another very special guest. I am very interested in how renewable energy intersects with food systems, and I’ve said for years, I don’t want to save the world I want to save the wild.Today’s guest intersects with all of that perfectly. He helps people take their power back. It’s Matthew Britt, ladies and gentlemen, if you’d like to introduce yourself.

Matthew Britt: Yeah, it’s awesome to be here. Thank you so much for having me on, Aaron. You know, it’s always awesome to connect with people who are on similar value driven missions and trying to make an impact.So I really appreciate you opening this up to me. And yeah, Matthew Britt, live in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. So Canadian born and raised and really have a personal mission of life, health and prosperity.I’m a father, I’m a father of three. And I have spent the past 25 years in the making a difference space.

At first, I was in the personal training and health and wellness industry, and I helped people improve their lives and their health through movement, and breath work, and good food, and really the foundation being movement.And then from there, moved into the renewable energy sector and, you know, really spent a big portion of my life in the coaching, personal development, movement, all of that stuff space and then really extended that beyond by going into: how can I provide solutions that impact billions of people and what do we need now based on our world?

And when I got aligned and really understood that making the biggest impact where you can impact the most people and the biggest size of the marketplace really gives you that ability to make serious long-lasting change that adds tremendous value that gives you tremendous value back. And that’s where the renewable sector came into play, first with the solar and storage, but then learning all about the different efficiency technologies and things that could be done there.

And then realizing that one of the biggest things we can do is take our power back when it comes to our food, and stop fighting nature.And when I got exposed to where I’m an owner and employee with now called Food Forest Abundance, and then leading into what’s The Commonstead, it really became about how do we give people the awareness back that has been taken from us around the abundance that nature provides.

Nature is abundant. Food is grown by nature and it should be grown everywhere. No one should be without. And we’ve got this belief that you need to have a green thumb or you need to be a farmer in order to have food growing.But the reality is those people don’t grow food either. Nature does. Nature grows the food.

And nature harnesses the sun, right? Solar energy to drive high value natural things that are meant to interact with us, that give us energy, thereby being the food, right?So when we take care of the soil, which we’ve neglected forever, and we stop growing ornamentals all over our lawns and our yards that don’t want to be there anyway, that are liabilities for us, that we invest time, money, energy, and resources into to get no value back, really.

And we’re not saying replace all your grass, but utilize a portion of your property to produce some food and let nature produce that food for you.So, our mission over at Food Forest Abundance is to build a localized and decentralized poison-free food and plant medicine supply around the world, using the science of permaculture.

Aaron Nichols: And I’m interested in what do you think the average education gap is for, let’s say, the average homeowner.I know that you mentioned ornamental plants. I think a lot of people don’t know that lawn grass is the most watered crop in America.And poisoned.

Matthew Britt: Yeah.

Aaron Nichols: Yeah. You’re correct. Poisoned. Yeah.So, what do you think the average homeowner doesn’t understand about food systems?And also, how do solar energy systems, what we do, fit into this larger picture?

Matthew Britt: Yeah. So, the main thing is that there’s a gap as far as what they believe is possible.Right. Because when they think about growing food, they typically have one or two images that pop into their minds. One is they see an annual garden that mom or grandma, grandpa, maybe they keep and they say things to me like “I don’t have a green thumb,” or they see a monoculture farm and they say things like “I’m not a farmer.”

And when they think of both of those things, what they’re thinking of is something that does take a lot of time, energy, money and resources in order to manage.And the reason it does is because they fight nature every step of the way. Right. And nature is relentless. It doesn’t matter how much chemicals you put on anything, it does come back. Nature is relentless.

So instead of fighting nature, what if we started working with it? And that’s the first gap we have to close, helping people realize that we, I don’t grow food.You don’t grow food. We don’t grow food. Nature grows the food. If you live in Ontario, you might not get to grow pineapples.

Yeah, you grow what grows natively in that climate zone. But there are hundreds of thousands of edible and medicinal perennial plants that once you plant them, they come back year over year over year over year over year over year for decades, sometimes centuries, sometimes for millennia, depending on the plant, and will produce food, value for you that whole time.

Aaron Nichols: Yeah. And I know that you have history as a solar energy entrepreneur as well, and I’m interested in how it fits into this whole picture for you.

Matthew Britt: So, the solar energy piece definitely has to do, again, with taking your power back. The sun is hitting your roof. Why is it just damaging your shingles when it could be powering your home?Right. And why not store some of that electricity?

So, I’m all in on solar and storage, and even the other systems that exist today for energy production, and all of them have their place.The great thing with solar is it hits everybody’s house and not only does it go on roofs, there’s more and more technology improvements happening there.

Next thing you know, the whole exterior of the home is gonna be able to collect energy.

Aaron Nichols: Right. It’s not gonna be long, right?

Matthew Britt: We’ll be able to paint it on pretty soon. You’ll be able to paint it on, exactly. So it just makes, again, logical sense to be able to capture what is already here for us in abundance.See, we’ve been fooled to believe that everything is scarce, right? But it’s the opposite. Abundance is everywhere.

Aaron Nichols: Yeah. But there’s no money in abundance.

Matthew Britt: Right.

Aaron Nichols: Right. Yeah.

One of the guys on our team, Dave Hammes, who I’ve interviewed for the show and I think his episode will come out probably the week before yours, has mentioned that he wants to change the narrative and he wants to stop talking about solar deployment and talk about solar harvesting because it’s already there.You already get the sun. The sun is just shining on the earth and we now just have these things that you can just lay out in the sun and they will produce electricity.They don’t require you to dig up something and burn it one time so that you have to then go find more things to dig up and burn.We have better ways to do things.

Matthew Britt: Yeah, exactly. It’s extremely valuable. And I’m very grateful to be a part of that serious energy transition that’s happening right now.And I think that we’re going to see a rapid increase in the amount of people that are really ready to take on the adoption.

And, you know, I think the great thing now is everybody’s so much wiser. We’ve gone through the solar coaster as they say and it’s been ups and downs as an industry really finds itself, it gets its feet under itself and it really starts taking off. We’ve got all kinds of incredible innovations happening when it comes to energy and energy efficiency, all extremely important as we have more and more energy demands happening every day.

Where are we getting that from? Well, one, we should be able to use the energy we already have more efficiently, two, we need to produce more.And the wisest place that I can think of to be producing it from is the sun. It’s there for us.Let’s get it, right?

Aaron Nichols: I’m interested in what motivates people to come to you. Because I think, you know, for people to find a solution, they generally have to hit a threshold of a certain type of pain.And I’m interested what kind of pain drives people to you.

Matthew Britt: So we’ve got two kind of different businesses that we’re talking about here. One with Food Forest Abundance, and that’s where we’ll go first. That is the awareness of the poisons in the food system and the awareness of control mechanisms being applied to people in general and them wanting to take control of some of those things.

They know that the food system is full of chemicals and not so good stuff. So why not have the ability to take care of yourself in one way by producing some or all of your own food.And then two is just preparation; you know, people realize that there’s only three days’ worth of food in your average grocery store.

Right. What happens in a major interruption?

Aaron Nichols: Yeah, we saw that during COVID.

Matthew Britt: Now imagine that goes three weeks.If all the food is gone in three days, what are we doing for the next 17 of those three weeks?Right. And unfortunately, most people aren’t prepared. They don’t have anything at their homes extra. So when the grocery store runs out, they’re uh-oh, they get desperate.And desperate people do desperate things. So let’s try to prevent all of that from happening. Let’s grow food everywhere we possibly can.

Every house, let’s do a little.

Aaron Nichols: Oh, every house, let’s do a little. I’ll edit that section out, sorry, keep going.

Matthew Britt: Yeah. Yeah. Every house just grew a little.

Aaron Nichols: Right. And I mean, that same resiliency applies to solar energy. If you’re worried about your family’s safety, and you have solar and battery systems that, you know, in some kind of disaster, can power your home, then you live on a safe little island with the people that you love during an emergency like this. And if you add the ability to grow your own food, I mean preserve your own food, you have something very, very few Americans do.

Matthew Britt: Correct.And I help a lot of people add solar and storage to their lives still to this day. I just sold a system yesterday.This gentleman’s building the family compound and he’s buying three different storage systems. The first one he got, say, 40 kilowatt backup.And then he’s buying probably two 16 kilowatt hour backup battery systems. So we’ll have three big batteries on his property as well as solar for each one of those units.And it’s all because he wants to be resilient and self-sufficient just in case.

Aaron Nichols: And so I guess the next place to take it, I’d be interested in testimonial stories like general overviews, you don’t have to be too specific, but, you know, someone you’ve taken from zero to three. How does that person generally feel? What kind of things do they tell you after that? What’s that journey like for someone?

Matthew Britt: It’s extremely rewarding for them, because it now is giving them a consistent resource of food that is full of life force, right?You’re talking about fast food. What’s faster than walking out your front door, your back door, and grabbing the stuff right there.

And the journey is fairly quick for people. They go through a design process, and once we have that design finalized, then it’s about bringing that design to life on their property.And then from there, the implementation of all of that, depending on the age of the plants that people buy, takes a certain amount of potentially seasons for it to grow, or if you’re starting from seed, but if you’re growing a tree you’re going to have a few years before it’s producing the fruits or nuts or whatever it is that it’s bringing to you.

But if you buy older stuff, then it could be that same season or a year or two later.But we definitely try to set them up where they have both the long-term as well as immediate production, so we’ll implement annual crops in the beginning too, that then can be kept or not.

But everybody’s, we’ve done stuff at schools. Those are the most gratifying, and orphanages, churches. So we’ve done five different schools, two churches, an orphanage. We’ve done over a thousand design and builds in 54 countries now.And it’s, you know, teensy-weensy but what I liked about it was I’ve expanded my impact beyond where I was in 23 states doing solar and storage. I’ve now made an impact in 54 countries.

So I also saw there’s a much greater ability to scale my impact with this particular entry into the “help a person change their life, become more empowered, take their power back” world.It was a simple foundational entry point, which then I could help them also implement solar and storage.Right. And I can help them implement water systems.I can help them implement everything that they need to be self-sufficient on every level. Food, energy, water, healing, education, privatization, all of it.

Aaron Nichols: Right. And there’s such a snowballing effect there. I mean, one of the most interesting projects we’ve been lucky enough to do: last year we did a ribbon cutting for it, but we designed a ground-mounted solar array with a battery backup that serves an off-grid greenhouse on the property of a charter school in Philadelphia.

So they have this big field and now they have a hydroponic gardening system in there that is completely off-grid and the students get to handle the whole process of zero to food and they get to prepare some of that food in an on-site kitchen and run a local farmer’s market a couple times a year.And the interest in that has been incredible. I mean, as a ribbon cutting we did, you know, a local or actually our state congressman showed up for that district and that eventually landed us a backlink in NPR and we got featured there.And there’s a lot of interest in this stuff.

But I’m interested also in, let’s say, the average person that doesn’t have a lot of land, the average suburbanite. Are they able to get involved in this stuff as well?

Matthew Britt: So people can grow food inside their home. There’s technologies that are implemented in that case. Vertical growing systems, I got a partner I work with called Harvest Today.They make something called the Harvest Wall and it’s literally a wall that actually you can be double-sided if you want it to be that big, and you can grow 720 plants in a couple of panels.It will produce a lot of food for you.

You can grow on balconies. You can grow on your countertop. I have another partner called Go Microfresh, and they do countertop microgreen systems that are stackable and all beautifully designed, technology driven, nutrient-dense food growing right in your countertop.

Aaron Nichols: Yeah, and it’s interesting, because if you put solar on your home to power those things, it’s almost like you bypass—it’s like you put a barrier between photosynthesis, but you’re still powering it with the power of the sun. Like the sun there is…You can put them near windows and then also still power it from the power of the sun for sure. Yeah.

Matthew Britt: Right. The other thing too is, depending on, you know, you got a lot of people that obviously live in a city that are now today in condos and apartments. Right. But if they don’t live in a condo or apartment and they actually have a house even in the city with a small lot, you can grow on very small pieces of property.Right. That’s the great thing. It can be done anywhere.

You can put those plants in pots if you want.But then as you get, you know, into the larger yards, anything a quarter acre is a fairly large yard.But anything under a quarter acre we do designs for all the time.Right. But then we go up from there; our next, like we got three sizes. You know, we got under quarter acre, up to one acre and then up to three acres as kind of like our primary sizes. And then beyond that it gets very, very custom in size.

But everything is a hundred percent custom design specific for your size of property, utilizing local native perennial edible medicinal plants and all designed in a system that works with nature, meaning we design in seven layers of production. When you look at how people normally grow food in their mentality, them growing the food, they do it in either rows of just one thing or a whole system of just one thing.

That’s one layer. We go in seven, which is how nature does it, right? If you go outside to any green space that’s got some forestry around it, go look at that forest and you don’t just have one thing.You’ve got a mass diverse system in multiple layers. Your things that are growing underground, your ground cover, your small shrubs, your bushes, your understory trees, your canopy trees, and then oh yeah, you got vines in there and fungus.

So you’ve got a massive system that produces a serious amount of abundance in a smaller space.

Aaron Nichols: And how long does it take for the average person to start producing that abundance on their own land? If they, let’s say, you know, they go from a green yard that’s had a bunch of pesticides sprayed all over it to wanting to do this, how long does that usually take?

Matthew Britt: First of all, we can heal their soil very rapidly. And then as far as the design process, depending on the size you’re a month or up to, say, six to seven weeks, depending on how big your food forest is.And there’s multiple interactions with that customer.

And then from there, it is the implementation, which depends on how fast they want to do it. Because they get that design back, they can DIY that install themselves, they’re just following a blueprint. It’s just buying the plant and putting it in the ground.Or they can have someone come and do that for them, and then it just depends on scheduling on when that’s able to be booked and completed.

But once that stuff is all in the ground, things start growing right away, they start taking. Some stuff you’ll be able to utilize very quickly. Other stuff does take longer, right?So, you have a mix of speeds, depending on the plants that you’re utilizing at those times, but people’s journeys, it’s an ongoing thing. I think it’s kind of a better expectation: this is bringing something to life on your property that’s going to produce you value. It’s always going to be growing and evolving.

But to get it in the ground is inside of three months, and you don’t need permitting or things like that.Unless you’re HOAs; then they sometimes make them ask permission or tell them where they can grow. But you’re not waiting on, like, there’s no rules and regulations necessarily around like some of the blockages we have in the solar industry, right?

Like I’m trying to get solar installed someplace in a neighborhood, I’ll have the hydro company block me from doing it because they only want to allow 12% of homes in this area to have a solar array.Because the grid is so old, and if they’re going to add more, they have to go out and spend all this money to add new transformers and the big boxes, etc.We don’t have those type of things that hold us up in projects the same way.

Aaron Nichols: Yeah, there’s so much to solve, but I think people like you and people that run the local farm that I hang out at a lot and who work with their land rather than against it. There’s such a vision of a better future being painted there. And unfortunately, the way that things are now, it incentivizes not using the land the right way.

Matthew Britt: It does, yeah. I think, as we move forward, I mean, we have to adapt to these things or, you know, it’s just not going to be good, we’re just not going to have a world to live in that we want to live in.No, it’s very unfortunate, you know, the future generations, our kids, they’re the ones that are really going to feel the impact of all this.

Like, I would say it’s impacting us. But, you know, what’s that future look like if we continue to poison the earth like we are, poison the air, poison the water, poison the soil.It’s not—and unfortunately, you know, everybody is trying to do their best, right?

There’s these big agricultural producers, these farmers, there’s a lot of them that don’t want to use what they use.They feel trapped. They don’t have the education to do it a different way.

It’s definitely a mix of all these different things, right? Education, don’t have enough time to get the education, or at least that’s a story they tell themselves.They’re busy farming. They’ve also got quotas to hit, production numbers to hit. So for them, it’s a big risk to try something different because if they miss a quota, their whole season is out.Right. All the money for that year basically goes, poof.

Aaron Nichols: No. Well, as we’re thinking about that brighter future and we’re bringing it home, I end this podcast with the same question for everyone and it comes from the fact that a couple months ago, I was at my grandma’s 80th birthday party.

And as I was writing the LinkedIn post about it afterwards, I realized that she was born into a world where renewable energy, as we know it, did not exist.That was, you know, she was born ten years after the Rural Electrification Act in 1945. So the only way we knew how to generate electricity was to dig things up and burn them.And she was nine years old when the first PV cell was invented. And that was a fringe technology for years and then it’s only recently that we’re seeing the prices per watt that we’re seeing now and we’re starting to see mass adoption.

So if you’re just going to spitball and fantasize about the future, what do you think clean energy looks like in 80 years?

Matthew Britt: Well, the first thing would be that every roof, every exterior wall, every exposed space that we live inside of is all going to be collecting and producing energy.I think we’ll probably even finally have maybe some of the free energy devices that I think have existed for a long time, but have been quietly suppressed.

They seem to be making a reappearance quite rapidly, and the internet is disseminating and decentralizing that information very quickly. So it’s hard to shut up new advancements that are very abundance driven, very freedom driven, and because of that, the power of the internet and the decentralizing of the knowledge, I feel like we’re going to have a lot more abundance around us in every way.

All of our food, all of our water, all of our energy is going to be—it’ll be available for all of us.It already is. We’re just not harnessing it the right way. And I think we’re seeing a big awareness level increase right now amongst the greater general population.

And people are trying to see what’s possible. And because of that, the whole shift is increasing in momentum. And because of that, we’re going to have a lot more people asking for it and demanding it and doing it and inspiring others, which will then just continue to feed upon itself.

So I think the future is very bright in abundance. I’m excited to be a part of that, and grateful to have you a part of that as well and look forward to seeing, you know, what we can do together to accelerate the adoption and creating a world of abundance that really is here for us all.We all deserve it. It’s our birthright. You know, we’re born into this incredible place where we all live and abundance is here for us all.So let’s go get it.

Aaron Nichols: Amazing. And if people want to find you, where can they find you?

Matthew Britt: I’m on Instagram, I’m on Facebook, I’m on LinkedIn, under Matthew Britt, and you know the other place would just be to send me an email.You can send me an email: Matthew at The Commonstead, The Commonstead, Matthew at The Commonstead, and I’d be happy to talk with you.

Aaron Nichols: All right. Thank you so much for coming on today, Matthew. For everyone listening, that’s been This Week in Solar and I look forward to talking to you next week.

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Aaron talks with Mike McGuire, a Professional Engineer and the founder of H2DC. Mike is a 30-year engineering veteran whose firm is licensed in all 50 states.

He specializes in the technical side of distribution engineering (figuring out how to integrate massive solar loads into aging utility grids that were never designed to handle two-way power flow).

Listen to this episode here, or on:

* YouTube

* Apple Podcasts

* Spotify

Connect with Mike on LinkedIn here.

Expect to learn:

* How savvy engineers use modeling to downsize projects just enough to avoid multi-million dollar utility grid upgrade fees.

* About new sophisticated off-grid systems that use automatic transfer switches (ATS) and batteries to run heavy industrial loads independently.

* Why anhydrous ammonia, created from solar, air, and salt water, might be the carbon-free fuel that replaces fossil fuels in the next 80 years.

Quotes from the episode:

“The cost of solar has dropped dramatically, making it easier for people to develop solar. The cost of regular utility provided power has gone up and keeps going up at a pretty steep rate. You really don’t need the incentives anymore.”

— Mike McGuire

Transcript

Aaron Nichols: Mike, when I was connecting with you and your team before the show, you mentioned that the shift from small municipal utilities to large corporate structures has driven up electricity costs and then noted that solar is becoming more viable even without incentives as utility costs rise. So how has this changed the way that solar projects are being integrated into the grid?

Mike McGuire PE - H2DC: Well, that’s slightly two different things, but they’re related. The price of solar has come down dramatically. 20 years ago it was $8 a watt to buy a solar module. Now, you can buy entire ground mount solar for 75 cents a watt for extremely large facilities. You really don’t need the incentives anymore.

As far as integration, the whole grid thing has evolved. In Massachusetts and New Jersey, high incentives led to a tipping point around 2010. It filled up the electric company’s circuits. Once power starts flowing in the other direction from all these little distributed generation sites, it eventually comes back to a substation where they have limits on the equipment. Massachusetts has been to hell and back on this. The utilities got crushed by the number of applications.

It wasn’t fair to put the cost of repairing the grid on regular ratepayers, so they put those costs on the solar developers. In congested areas, the utility might tell you it costs $5 billion to upgrade the circuit for a 300 kW project, or you can “sneak in under the wire” if you reduce it to 125 kW. That’s the trade-off we see now.

Aaron Nichols: I’m very excited to talk to you today and learn more. I am a sales and marketing storytelling minded person, but I have a lot to learn on the technical side. Welcome back to This Week in Solar. I’m your host, Aaron Nichols, and my guest today is Mike McGuire. Mike, would you quickly introduce yourself?

Mike McGuire PE - H2DC: Sure, I’m an electrical engineer, and our firm is licensed across the entire US—all 50 states, DC, and Puerto Rico. (Not Guam yet!). Part of our shop does distribution engineering. We calculate how much energy you’re going to need for a store—lighting, outlets, appliances—and size the electrical needs.

With distributed generation, we look at how much you’re putting in. There’s “behind the meter” where solar takes a bite out of existing loads, or you’re a net producer dumping power back on the grid. 20 years ago, that was straight net metering. It’s primitive—like an abacus. They take a picture of your meter odometer every month and compare the two. Over the years, utilities complained about a glut of energy at certain times, which they call the duck curve.

Aaron Nichols: I’ve heard of the duck curve, but please refresh my memory.

Mike McGuire PE - H2DC: It’s a glut of energy available on the lines when everyone’s solar is dumping on the grid at the same time. Let’s also talk about peak demand. Every summer, when people leave work and come home, both locations have the air conditioning on. That uses a lot of power and can cause brownouts. Utilities then have to “wheel in” power from an open market at a premium—sometimes 5 to 200 times the normal price.

They share that pain with big commercial users through a “speeding ticket” called a peak demand charge. Some manufacturing plants pay as much for their “speeding ticket” as they do for their regular consumption. Now we’re seeing time of use (TOU) charges for residences too, where you might pay 10 times more for electricity between 4 p.m. and 10 p.m.

Aaron Nichols: Where do you and your company come in to help fix this?

Mike McGuire PE - H2DC: We’re the electrical engineers. We figure out how to integrate all these systems—pairing modules, combining them with inverters. We’re the cooks; the customers tell us what they want on the menu, and we figure out how to get it done and deal with the utilities.

Aaron Nichols: You’ve been a PE for 30 years and in solar for 20. What are the major changes you’ve seen?

Mike McGuire PE - H2DC: Grids are getting full and processes are getting complicated, but now we have energy storage. To combat that duck curve and the peak demand, you capture energy and hold onto it for a few hours. Batteries are the easiest solution. Instead of tapping the utility to charge an electric car—which is a bigger load than most A/C systems—you hit the battery.

For the future, I think we’ll see more off-grid solar. I don’t mean a camp on an island; I mean solar running specific loads while the sun is out, regulated by batteries so clouds don’t “pull the rug out” from under you. If the batteries run low, you use an automatic transfer switch (ATS) to snap back to the grid. This is “solar without the utility.” In New England, solar energy per kWh is much less than utility rates, which draws people in.

Aaron Nichols: Mike, if you were to guess what energy looks like 80 years from now, what do you imagine?

Mike McGuire PE - H2DC: It will still be electric. How we make it will change. I don’t think fossil fuels or uranium will be enough. I believe we’ll use “modern fuels” we can’t even think of yet. One I like is anhydrous ammonia (NH3). It has no carbon, stores like propane, and its energy content is between propane and natural gas.

If you have a glut of solar, air, and salt water, you can create NH3. Industry is working on making the manufacturing plants smaller and more efficient. It can also be used for fertilizer. That might be a go-to fuel in 80 years.

Aaron Nichols: Thank you for coming on, Mike. For everyone listening, that’s been This Week in Solar.

Due to technical difficulties during the interview, today’s episode will be available as audio only. You can still listen to this episode as a podcast right here on Substack, on Apple Podcasts, or on Spotify. Thanks for tuning in and enjoy the interview!

Show Notes:

Liz Robinson is the Executive Director of the Philadelphia Solar Energy Association and a 40-year veteran of Pennsylvania’s clean energy movement.

She spent more than three decades leading the Energy Coordinating Agency before taking the helm at PSEA, where she’s focused on energy education, policy advocacy, and accelerating the state’s transition to affordable, abundant, and clean power.

Liz is a nationally recognized leader in energy efficiency and solar, with a deep history in workforce development, community outreach, and building science.

Here’s her LinkedIn.

Expect to learn:

* How Pennsylvania’s fossil fuel legacy is holding solar energy back.

* Why energy efficiency and solar are “two sides of the same coin.”

* How PJM’s backlog of solar projects is driving unnecessary electricity rate hikes.

You can listen to this episode here, or on:

* YouTube

* Apple Podcasts

* Spotify

Transcript:

Aaron Nichols:Hello everyone, and welcome back to This Week in Solar. I'm Aaron Nichols, the Research and Policy Specialist here at Exact Solar in Newtown, Pennsylvania.

Today we’re talking to someone who has been working in Philadelphia and Pennsylvania energy for a long time. As part of our goal to fight some of the short-term panic around the Inflation Reduction Act and assure people that solar has been around for a while and will continue to be around, we decided to bring her on. So everyone, please welcome Liz Robinson to the show.

Liz Robinson:Thanks, Aaron.

Aaron Nichols:So Liz, you are the Executive Director of the Philadelphia Solar Energy Association, right?

Liz Robinson:Yes.

Aaron Nichols:If you wouldn’t mind, could you talk to us a little bit about the organization, your role, and what a day in your life looks like?

Liz Robinson:Sure. The Philadelphia Solar Energy Association has been around for about 40 years, initially unincorporated and then incorporated. It’s a very small local nonprofit started by architects and energy nerds at Penn, and its focus has always been education.

It principally focuses on school-age education programs. I was asked to join when I resigned from the Energy Coordinating Agency some years ago. I’ve always been really interested in education and really believe Americans as a nation are undereducated — our energy literacy level is pretty low.

We are in the midst of a transition to clean energy, and it’s critically important that people have better access to the fundamentals of energy, particularly solar. My focus now is really on improving the quality of tools available for children and youth to learn about solar.

Aaron Nichols:As someone who’s had a 40-year career in energy — which is so crazy for me to think about, since I’m barely two years in — you have more experience than anyone we’ve interviewed so far. I’m interested in what changes you’ve seen over that time, and why, after all this time, you still love solar so much.

Liz Robinson:I’m not inherently a technical person; my background is more social science. I spent almost 35 years in energy efficiency and only recently came into solar.

My orientation to energy is that it’s key to all life on Earth. It’s critical that energy be abundant, accessible, affordable, and clean. Energy efficiency remains the cheapest form of energy, but solar is a close second — and has quickly caught up in recent years.

I’ve always regarded them as two sides of the same coin. They go together, particularly in buildings. You don’t want to put a fancy solar system on a very inefficient building — as they say, you don’t put lipstick on a pig. Reducing load first allows solar to carry it efficiently.

Under the Biden administration, there’s been a strong emphasis on using a wide range of tools to achieve abundant, affordable, clean energy. Unfortunately, we’ve taken a turn for the worse lately, but to be frank, this is inevitable. Humanity needs clean, abundant, affordable energy.

I’ve been heartened by the extraordinary technical developments in recent years. My husband and I are decarbonizing our lives — moving from fossil fuels to all-electric, powered by solar. The new highly efficient electric appliances — induction stoves, heat pump water heaters, heat pumps — are extraordinarily efficient, quiet, clean, and durable. I’m very excited about the transition, and I believe it’s inevitable, despite short-term setbacks.

Aaron Nichols:“Inevitable” is the word I keep hearing from veterans in this industry. The way I’ve been describing it is: we’re in a trilogy, and this is The Empire Strikes Back.

Liz Robinson:Oh, I like that.

Aaron Nichols:Darth Vader’s our father, we’ve lost a hand, and now we have to gather strength and move forward. Not to get too lost in the metaphor, but I’m really curious — what was energy efficiency like 40 years ago, and what’s the growth curve looked like in your career?

Liz Robinson:Forty years ago, it was very rudimentary. Technical advances were slow at first, but they began to speed up during the Obama administration. DOE Secretary Steven Chu — a Nobel Prize-winning physicist — made an extraordinary difference. He laid the groundwork for rapid development in both energy efficiency and solar, putting the U.S. on a strong scientific footing.

The Obama administration raised efficiency standards significantly. The energy efficiency field shifted from basic auditing to “building science” — understanding energy, humidity, moisture, materials, pollutants, and health in buildings. This led to leapfrogging technology improvements.

The pace of change is now accelerating exponentially — because we’re transforming the largest, most powerful industry in history: fossil fuels.

Aaron Nichols:As someone who’s pretty chronically online, I’ve noticed the dizzying amount of misinformation — things like “windmills cause cancer” or “solar panels kill plants.” Has this always been the playbook?

Liz Robinson:No. The difference is that solar is now the cheapest, cleanest, fastest form of energy generation worldwide, which makes it very threatening to fossil fuels. Its availability has accelerated coal plant closures. That’s a direct threat to an industry that’s had friends, money, and lobbying power for 200 years.

I think we’re in the “death throes” phase of fossil fuels. The industry has largely given up on Europe — which is now firmly on a clean energy path — and is focusing on preventing the U.S. from moving forward. This is the last desperate phase.

Aaron Nichols:That reminds me of the quote: “First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.”

Liz Robinson:Exactly.

Aaron Nichols:You and I have both chosen not only a hard industry, but a hard state to fight in. Can you talk about the challenges of implementing renewables in Pennsylvania?

Liz Robinson:Pennsylvania is where U.S. fossil fuel industries got their start — coal, oil, gas — and much of the state’s wealth and political power is tied to them. More recently, fracking brought gas back in a big way, coinciding with the Tea Party’s rise.

It wasn’t always this way. When I started, the most dedicated conservationists in Pennsylvania were Republicans — especially in Chester County. They valued resource stewardship. That’s been turned on its head.

Aaron Nichols:That’s hopeful in a way, because solar is broadly popular — even with conservatives — if framed right.

Liz Robinson:It’s the most popular form of energy. It represents freedom, independence, and savings.

Aaron Nichols:In the short term, though, with the loss of IRA incentives, what’s the way forward for solar companies?

Liz Robinson:I don’t think this is permanent. But companies will need to tighten belts, diversify, and perhaps move into larger-scale projects. Residential will be hit hardest, followed by community solar. Utility-scale may hold on longer.

We’ll lose jobs and some companies in Pennsylvania. The industry’s multiple scales — residential, community, utility — offer some resilience if companies can pivot.

Aaron Nichols:And for home and business owners?

Liz Robinson:I think education is key. Pennsylvania is facing astronomical electricity price increases due to poor utility-scale planning and mismanagement by PJM, our grid operator. PJM has hundreds of projects — 87% of them solar — stuck in its queue. If admitted, they’d lower prices. Instead, prices are rising.

For consumers, the best defenses are energy efficiency and solar. Buying your energy in bulk — locking in decades of production — is a smart move, especially with rates climbing.

Aaron Nichols:These are big problems, but they’re worth throwing a lifetime at. As someone who’s been in the fight for 40 years, what advice do you have for the next generation?

Liz Robinson:Resilience, resourcefulness, flexibility, and the ability to anticipate what’s coming. Hold yourself to high integrity — trust is the industry’s most important asset.

Aaron Nichols:To close, I’ve been asking everyone a moonshot question: what do you think clean energy will look like in 80 years?

Liz Robinson:It’s hard to picture that far ahead, but I believe we’ll have clean, abundant, affordable energy for all. Solar’s abundance can transform economies, lower the cost of essentials, and democratize access to energy. Once people experience that, they won’t give it up.

Aaron Nichols:Liz Robinson, if people have questions or want to reach out, how can they find you?

Liz Robinson:Email is best, or LinkedIn.

Aaron Nichols:Thank you so much for coming on.

What’s new

The solar lead generation platform EnergySage says July was their busiest month since their founding in 2009. Homeowners working with installers on their site jumped 205% from last year, and questions from shoppers through the platform hit an all-time high.

Why it matters

The rush started after Congress passed the “One Big, Beautiful Bill,” declaring that solar energy systems must be installed by Dec. 31, 2025, to get a 30% tax credit on their total solar project cost, an incentive passed into law under the Biden Administration.

We’ve experienced this rush firsthand at Exact Solar, especially since many homeowners in our region saw record power cost increases in June.

Installers’ calendars are filling up: 35% expect to stop taking new customers before Oct. 1, and 9% say they’re already full for 2025.

EnergySage expects solar sign-ups to slow in January when the credit ends, then pick up again in the second half of 2026.

New Altitude Record Set for Solar-Powered Plane

What’s New

A Swiss pilot, Raphaël Domjan, flew a solar-powered airplane called SolarStratos up to 31,237 feet, breaking the old record of 30,298 feet that was set in 2010.

The flight lasted a little over five hours, and he even flew near a regular passenger jet. Their team sent the flight data to officials to confirm the new record.

Why it matters

These flights have repeatedly proven that planes can fly at the cruising altitude of passenger jets, without gasoline.

The team’s next goals are 10,000 meters (about 33,000 feet) and then the edge of the stratosphere.

EPA Officially Cancels Solar for All

What’s new

The EPA officially ended its $7 billion “Solar for All” program. EPA Administrator Lee Zeldin said on X that the Greenhouse Gas Reduction Fund (which included Solar for All ) was eliminated.

Why it matters

The program gave money to 60 groups to help about 900,000 low-income households add rooftop or community solar and lower electric bills.

With the program canceled, several pending projects designed to reduce the energy bills of low-income communities are now at risk.

Sources

EnergySage sees massive spike in home solar interest with ITC set to expire

Politics EPA terminates $7 billion Solar for All program

World Pilot breaks altitude record for solar-powered plane, crossing paths with commercial airliner, his team says

SolarStratos: Solar-powered plane smashes altitude record held for 15 years by Solar Impulse

After 20 years of sitting with potential customers and discussing how going solar can save them money, we can confidently say that most home and business owners don’t realize how expensive their energy truly is.

In fact, most don’t know how to read their bill in the first place, and that’sokay. Utility bills are not designed to be easy to read.

Most people pay their electric bill each month without knowing they are billed for electricity in two different ways.

Here are the basics you need to understand about how your bill works:

What Is a Kilowatt-Hour?

Utility companies bill per kilowatt-hour (kWh) for energy. 1 kilowatt equals 1,000 watts.

A watt is a measurement of how much electricity something uses at a given moment. A kilowatt-hour is a measurement of how much power is used over time. For example, if you turn on a 100-watt light bulb for 10 hours, you’ll use 1 kilowatt-hour of electricity. Drying laundry can use 3 to 5 kilowatt-hours per load.

To bill you for electricity, your utility adds up all the kilowatt-hours you use during a billing period and multiplies that total by the rates they charge.

But here’s what most people don’t understand:

Every bill includes two charges for the same energy that are assessed separately: supply and delivery.

What’s the Difference Between Supply and Delivery?

Supply is the price you pay for the electricity you use, and delivery is the price you pay to get that electricity to your home.

Think of it like ordering a pizza. Supply is the cost of making the pizza, and delivery is the cost of bringing it to your house. If you paid for pizza the same way you pay for electricity, every receipt would look like this:

* Pizza ingredients and preparation: $10

* Pizza transportation: $10

* Total pizza cost: $20

The bill above shows this clearly. In the “PECO electric delivery” section, it says “692 kWh X 0.09655.” The first number shows that this PECO customer used 692 kWh of electricity in their last billing period.

The second number is the per-kWh rate this person is paying for delivery. In this case, they’re paying $0.09655 per kWh.

Many people see the first number and (if they know that they’re paying per kWh at all) assume that that’s the rate that they’re paying for electricity. But to see how much you’re actually paying for electricity, you need to add together the supply charge and the delivery charge.

Under the “electric supply” section, it says “692 kWh X 0.1249.” That means that this person is paying $0.1249 per kilowatt-hour for supply.

To get the total rate, we have to add the supply rate and the delivery rate.

$0.09655 + $0.1249 = $0.22145. The true rate this person is paying is 22 cents per kilowatt-hour.

Going solar reduces or eliminates both parts of your electric bill. You no longer need to buy supply from the utility, because your electricity is generated right on your roof.

And when your own solar energy powers your home, you avoid delivery costs, since the electricity is traveling from your roof straight into your home instead of on the utility’s poles and lines.

This is why solar energy systems are such a powerful investment. Once you have one, it makes energy for you at a far lower price per kWh than your utility does, at a rate that never goes up.

If you live in Pennsylvania or New Jersey, we’d love to walk you through the numbers for your home in a free consultation.

New Jersey Gov. Mikie Sherrill wasted no time Wednesday, signing six executive orders before she finished her inaugural address.

Two of them were related to energy. Sherrill declared a formal State of Emergency regarding utility costs, allowing the state to bypass red tape, expedite power projects, and get new generation on the grid as fast as possible.

* (EO #1) Freezing Rates: The order halts upcoming utility rate hikes and utilizes existing state funds to offset bill increases scheduled for June.

* (EO #2) Solar & Nuclear Push: The administration is fast-tracking thousands of megawatts of new solar and battery storage in the short term, and establishing a nuclear power task force to figure out longer-term projects.

Why it matters:

* Immediate Relief: The policies take an aggressive stance against regional grid operator PJM, blaming their “mismanagement” for current costs and forcing utilities to realign business models to benefit ratepayers.

* Supply, supply, supply: Sherrill’s strategy is based on the idea that more power will automatically mean lower costs. Her administration is shifting focus to getting in-state generation on the grid fast rather than relying on the regional grid.

Her own words: “In the Navy, I learned that you have to lead, follow, or get out of the way... I promised the people of New Jersey that I would be on a mission to deliver starting Day One.”

Checking In on Trump’s Campaign Promise to Cut Energy Bills In Half

What’s new:

President Trump and his administration have yet to deliver on their campaign pledge to cut energy bills by 50% in their first year, as electricity and gas prices climbed significantly in 2025.

* Bills are rising everywhere: The average US household electricity bill rose 6.7% in 2025, and gas bills jumped 5.2%.

* It’s worse in our region: Electricity prices in New Jersey and Pennsylvania, however, rose far faster than the national average, rising by double-digit percentage points across both states.

* Disconnections: Utility shut-offs (when a power company intentionally cuts power to a specific region) are also spiking. In New York, the disconnection rate rose fivefold. In December, thousands of Colorado residents went without power for an entire weekend due to an intentional utility shut-off.

Why it matters:

* Supply vs. Demand: Experts say the grid is failing to meet new demand due to the “ideologically driven attack” on wind and solar. Solar is now the cheapest and fastest power source to deploy.

* Policy paradox: The White House is doubling down on fossil fuels and blaming “blue states,” but analysts note that infrastructure costs and extreme weather are driving rates up regardless of state politics.

Sources:

Promise Kept: Governor Sherrill Takes Bold Action with Executive Orders Declaring State of Emergency on Utility Costs

New Jersey governor spends first day in office issuing executive orders on solar

Trump promised to cut energy bills in half. One year later, has he delivered?

How Trump’s promise to slash energy bills in half has failed across the US

What’s new:Enphase announced that its EV charger, which can fill your electric car and let your EV’s battery send power back to your home in an outage, will be available in the second half of 2026.

Why it matters:This technology, known as “bidirectional charging,” is already available for Tesla owners and homeowners with Tesla solar panels. Enphase is making it available to people outside Tesla’s ecosystem.

How it works:

* An electrician installs the charger and a small device near your meter.

* During an outage, the system safely separates your home from the grid and uses your car’s battery instead.

* The app helps you choose when to charge, when to power the house, and when to share with the grid.

Who it’s for:Homeowners with a compatible EV who want backup power without putting batteries on their walls. Homeowners with EVs can even start with just the charger and add rooftop solar or a home battery later if they want.

If you’re interested in this technology and live in New Jersey or Pennsylvania, Exact Solar would love to talk to you!

Contact Us Here

Rules and utility programs vary by location. Not every EV supports two-way charging yet, and not every utility allows sending power back to the grid. Enphase says it will share a list of supported cars and programs closer to launch, in the second half of 2026.

SolarEdge’s New Battery Lets Homeowners Start Small and Add More Later

What’s new:SolarEdge showed off a new home stackable solar + battery system called Nexis at the RE+ trade show in Las Vegas. It works with any SolarEdge products.

Why it matters:If your power goes out, a home battery can keep lights, Wi-Fi, and the fridge running. On normal days, it stores your daytime solar so you can use it at night and buy less from the grid. But batteries are expensive, and the amount of time they can run a household depends on how many batteries a homeowner can afford.

SolarEdge’s new battery system is designed so homeowners can start small, then plug-and-play as needed without costly electrical upgrades.

Availability will roll out through SolarEdge partners, with launch targeted for 2026. Incentives and utility rules vary by location ask your installer what rebates and backup options apply to your home.

Contact Exact Solar Here

Sources:

Enphase to bring bidirectional EV charger to market next year

Enphase Bidirectional EV Charger

Enphase Energy Unveils New IQ Bidirectional EV Charger Architecture for Home Backup and Grid Services

SolarEdge rolls out stackable residential LFP battery at RE+

SolarEdge Unveils Next Generation All-in-One Home Solar + Storage Solution at RE+ 2024

After listening to last week’s episode, This Week In Solar listener Ryan Yosua spent the weekend creating a website that tracks the status of every plug-in solar bill in America and gives Americans a one-click resource to send supportive emails to their representatives.

You can find it here:

https://pluginsolarguide.com/

Why it Matters:

Until now, it’s been difficult to track down all of the relevant legislation on different state websites and find the right representative to contact. Ryan’s put everything in one easy-to-use place.

I used this website as a resource to write this week’s update. These are the six states closest to legalization:

* Virginia: Passed House 98-0 and Senate 30-8. It’s now on Governor Abigail Spanberger’s desk, and she’s expected to sign. Using clean energy to lower electricity bills for Virginians was a large part of Spanberger’s campaign platform in last year’s Gubernatorial elections.

* Vermont: Passed Senate 29-0, and is now in the House committee.

* Washington: Passed House 56-38; advancing in Senate.

* Colorado: Passed House 48-16 on March 5, 2026; moving to the Senate.

* New Hampshire: Has gone through the Senate and House with “Ought to Pass” recommendations.

* Massachusetts: Integrated into an omnibus energy affordability bill that’s currently moving through the Senate.

Trump Administration Has Kept White House Solar Panels

What’s New:

Earlier this week, Amy Harder from Axios wrote a piece pointing out that even though President Trump publicly speaks about the superiority of coal and oil and has called solar power “very, very expensive,” his administration has kept the Obama Administration’s solar panels up on the White House roof.

Why it matters:

Solar panels have been added and removed from the White House a few times.

President Jimmy Carter first put solar panels on the roof in 1979 to save energy. President Ronald Reagan took them down a few years later.

President George W. Bush added solar thermal back in his administration to heat the White House pool. President Barack Obama then added solar PV in 2013 to generate electricity.

President Obama’s panels are still on the White House. Anyone can see them on Google Maps.

Sources:

1 sun thing: Trump White House still has solar panels

Easy-to-use solar panels are coming, but utilities are trying to delay them

https://pluginsolarguide.com/

What’s new:

A lot has happened in the last week, alongside the Republican-led House trying to dismantle the Inflation Reduction Act.

Here’s an overview of the timeline:

May 16

The House Budget Committee blocked the initial draft budget bill. Five Republicans joined Democrats to stop the bill from advancing.

One of their reasons?

Some Freedom Caucus members believed it didn't go far enough in cutting clean energy tax credits (ending the "Green New Scam," in the words of one Congressman).

May 20

The U.S. International Trade Commission voted to impose new tariffs on solar panels from Southeast Asia. Tariffs up to 3,500% will take effect June 16.

May 21

Reports confirm that solar leasing dominates the commercial solar market.

* Third-party ownership reached 72% in 2024.

* Transferable tax credits have been key to that growth.

May 22, early morning

The House passed a revised budget bill in a 215–214 vote.

The new bill includes harsher restrictions on solar tax credits after last-minute changes.

Two Republican Congressmen who supported clean energy, Andrew Garbarino and David Schweikert, missed the vote.

What this House bill would do if passed:

* End the residential solar tax credit (25D) after 2025.

* Eliminate the ability for solar leasing companies to use the 48E tax credit.

* Require projects to start construction within 60 days of enactment or be placed in service by the end of 2028 to qualify for 48E and 45Y credits.

* End 48E and 45Y with no phase-out in 2028.

* Restrict credit transferability starting in 2027.

* Move compliance with Foreign Entity of Concern (FEOC) restrictions to the end of this year, December 31, 2025.

* Preserve 45X manufacturing credit through 2029, with a phase-down through 2031.

Next step

The bill moves to the Senate, where changes are expected.

Senate Republicans have said they will propose a different approach. No tax credit changes will take effect unless the Senate agrees and the bill becomes law.

Go Deeper:

House Moves to Eliminate Solar Tax Credits

More about the tariffs:

What happened:

On May 20, 2025, the U.S. International Trade Commission (ITC) ruled that solar imports from Cambodia, Malaysia, Thailand, and Vietnam harmed U.S. manufacturers. This clears the way for new anti-dumping and countervailing duties.

Tariff details:

Tariffs were proposed by the Dept. of Commerce in April 2025. Final rates vary by country and manufacturer:

* Cambodia: 650%–3,500%

* Malaysia: 14%–250%

* Thailand: 375%–972%

* Vietnam: 120%–813%

Tariffs will apply to silicon solar cells and modules. The Commerce Dept. will issue formal tariff orders on June 9. U.S. Customs will begin collecting tariffs on June 16.

Background:

The petition was filed in April 2024 by the American Alliance for Solar Manufacturing Trade Committee, led by Hanwha Qcells and First Solar. The group alleged that Chinese-owned companies used Southeast Asia as a base to avoid existing Chinese tariffs.

The ITC agreed, finding these imports to be unfairly priced and subsidized.

Industry reaction:

* Supporters of the tariffs say they will protect U.S. solar manufacturing and enforce trade law.

* Opponents (including SEIA) argue the tariffs could raise costs and hurt U.S. solar producers who rely on imported cells.

* SEIA warns the tariffs could stall solar deployment and undermine domestic manufacturing growth.

Current impact:

Imports from the four countries have already dropped in anticipation. The tariffs add further pressure to a solar industry already facing higher interest rates and tax credit uncertainty.

Sources:

Republicans say clean energy cuts in budget bill aren’t harsh enough

House passes Trump’s ‘big, beautiful bill’ in marathon overnight session

House passes more bruising budget bill for solar industry

More commercial and community solar projects financed through TPO in 2024

It’s official: High tariffs initiated on solar cells and panels from Southeast Asia

US trade panel's vote paves way for stiff tariffs on many solar imports

Brett explains what makes e-Zinc’s zinc-based hybrid flow battery different from the lithium systems most people know (and why that’s huge under the current administration).

You can connect with Brett on LinkedIn here.

Listen to this episode on:

* YouTube

* Apple Podcasts

* Spotify

Expect to learn:

* Why battery storage is essential for a renewable grid once you cross 60 to 70 percent clean generation.

* How battery storage can be a non-wired alternative to expensive grid upgrades

Quotes from the episode:

“Storage is the enabler for a high-renewables grid. Once you get to around 60 to 70 percent renewables, you basically need long-duration storage for the grid to function efficiently.”- Brett Simon

“Our system is completely lithium-free. Everything in the battery is made from commodity materials, so we are not exposed to the same extreme commodity risk that lithium-based chemistries face.”- Brett Simon

Transcript:

Aaron Nichols:Hello, everyone, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome back to This Week in Solar. As always, I’m your host Aaron Nichols, the Research and Policy Specialist here at Exact Solar in Newtown, Pennsylvania.And today, I think we’re going to be talking more about batteries, which is an area I know shamefully little about—and I’m excited to learn a lot more.So our guest today, Brett Simon—would you tell us a bit about EZinc and your role there?

Brett Simon:Sure. Hi, everybody. I’m Brett Simon, Director of Commercial Strategy at EZinc. EZinc is a long-duration battery storage manufacturer based out of the Toronto area of Canada—though I personally work out of our U.S. arm in northern New Jersey.Our solution is a zinc-based hybrid flow battery that can discharge anywhere from 10 to 100 hours. Traditional flow batteries have two tanks that pump solution between them; ours is a single sealed tank. If you were to look at it, it would resemble a fish tank with a potassium hydroxide electrolyte. It uses zinc chemistry to charge and discharge energy, giving advantages like long lifetime, low degradation, inherent safety, and, of course, the long duration I mentioned earlier.It’s made entirely of commodity materials, so we aren’t subject to the extreme commodity risks affecting other technologies that rely on rare earth elements or materials refined in foreign nations.

Aaron Nichols:So does that mean lithium is not involved in the chemistry at all?

Brett Simon:We don’t use any lithium. Our solution is completely lithium-free.

Aaron Nichols:That’s amazing—you’re much less dependent on supply chain disruptions.

Brett Simon:Definitely. I was just at a conference in Austin, Texas, where there was a lot of discussion about supply chain and the drive toward domestic manufacturing for the storage industry, especially with new federal rules around foreign entities of concern. There’s going to be a big push toward domestically manufactured content.

Aaron Nichols:So what are some of the major differences in degradation between zinc and lithium?

Brett Simon:Good question. Lithium systems have improved a lot over time, but typically, depending on how much you cycle them, you’ll get between a 7- and 13-year lifetime. Our battery targets a minimum 15-year lifetime. That’s a major difference.Our system also has a different discharge profile. Lithium systems—because they’re shorter duration—are usually cycled almost daily. Ours, being long-duration, often does partial cycles each day.

Aaron Nichols:Do you have a similar depth of discharge?

Brett Simon:Ours is superior—0 to 100 percent. Lithium generally doesn’t go below 5 percent or above 95 percent. But customers don’t really see that difference. The rated capacity they buy is what they get.

Aaron Nichols:On EZinc’s website, it says your mission is to enable a safe and cost-effective transition away from fossil fuels to renewables. For listeners who might not know—why is energy storage so important for renewables?

Brett Simon:Storage is the key enabler of a renewable grid. A study from about four years ago found that once a grid hits 60–70% renewables, you need 8+ hours of duration storage to function efficiently because of generation variability.Some grids are already approaching that level. Hawaii, for example, was facing solar backfeed issues as early as 2015, even requiring battery storage or smaller systems to limit exports.

Aaron Nichols:They also eliminated net metering, didn’t they?

Brett Simon:Exactly. So if we want to scale renewables, we need storage—and increasingly, long-duration storage. Ten years ago, a 1 MWh project was exciting. Now, 100 MWh deployments barely make the news.

Aaron Nichols:At a basic level, renewables don’t produce power all the time, so we need to store it for when it’s needed most.

Brett Simon:Exactly. And beyond that, storage improves the transmission and distribution grid. It can defer or replace costly infrastructure upgrades—substations, poles, and wires—saving utilities time and money.

Aaron Nichols:That’s huge. Utilities in our region raise prices every year because they can’t keep up with upgrades.

Brett Simon:Yeah, and you’re in PJM territory—same as us in New Jersey. Energy prices and grid constraints are major political topics here, especially during elections.

Aaron Nichols:We even have governors threatening to leave PJM! It’s wild. Anyway—what are the major challenges facing storage deployment right now?

Brett Simon:Three main ones:First, supply chain. The global battery market is still dominated by China—something like 80–90% of lithium refining happens there. With FEOC (Foreign Entities of Concern) rules kicking in around 2026, there’s urgency to build a domestic supply chain.

Second, market design. PJM and other regional operators weren’t built for storage. FERC Order 841 forced markets to compensate storage, but mainly short-duration. We need a similar order for long-duration systems. Right now, if you bid a 24-hour resource, you’re only paid as if it’s a 4-hour one.

Third, interconnection and permitting. The process is painfully slow—averaging seven years in PJM from queue to approval. Batteries and solar can be built in a year or less, but permitting delays everything.

Aaron Nichols:And permitting isn’t standardized—every jurisdiction does it differently.

Brett Simon:Exactly. Even stormwater rules vary wildly and can add months if developers don’t plan for them.

Aaron Nichols:You mentioned before recording that you have a soapbox about AI and energy. Let’s hear it.

Brett Simon:I’m an AI skeptic—not that it’s bad, but it’s overhyped. It’s great for optimizing battery charge/discharge and identifying faults, but most companies claiming to use AI can’t explain what it actually does. I’ll ask at conferences, “What does that mean?” and often get blank stares.

Aaron Nichols:Yeah, that happens across industries. Everyone says “we use AI,” but no one can show where.

Brett Simon:Exactly. It’s become a buzzword. I even tried Spotify’s AI DJ once—it said, “You were listening to Blink-182, so here’s Taylor Swift.” That’s not intelligence. I just want companies to be transparent—say what AI actually does and why it’s needed.

Aaron Nichols:That’s a great point. Reporters tell me they’re drowning in AI-generated responses. Sometimes not using it is an advantage.

Brett Simon:Totally. It comes down to authenticity. If your AI truly optimizes performance—great. But if you can’t explain it, it’s a red flag.

Aaron Nichols:I’ve called myself a “nerd whisperer” since joining this industry. There’s often a gap between engineers and communicators—people saying “it’s AI, it just works,” when they don’t understand it themselves.

Brett Simon:Exactly. I don’t expect a marketing rep to recite algorithms—but they should be able to clearly explain what it does and why it matters. I once met someone who did just that—gave a full, 20-minute breakdown of how their AI worked. I wish more would follow that example.

Aaron Nichols:Alright, to wrap up, I ask everyone the same final question. My grandma just turned 80, and she was born into a world where renewables didn’t exist. What do you think clean energy looks like 80 years from now?

Brett Simon:Eighty years from now—so, 2105—I’m going to dream big. I think humanity will at least start building a Dyson Sphere: solar panels orbiting the sun, capturing massive energy directly from our star. It sounds crazy, but a hundred years ago, no one could imagine video calls or smartphones. Why not?

Aaron Nichols:That’s what would make interstellar travel possible, right? Neil deGrasse Tyson talks about how civilizations evolve through energy levels—and a Dyson Sphere would get us to the next one.

Brett Simon:Exactly. Even in my lifetime, the pace of progress has been wild. Maybe by then we’ll have near-infinite storage—or at least affordable, practical long-duration storage everywhere.

Aaron Nichols:That’s a great vision. Brett, thank you so much for coming on today. If people want to find you, where can they connect?

Brett Simon:LinkedIn is best. I post regularly and attend plenty of clean energy conferences, especially around New York City. So if you see me at one, say hi!

Aaron Nichols:Awesome. Thanks again, Brett. And for everyone listening—that’s been This Week in Solar. We’ll talk to you next week.

Brett Simon:Thanks for having me on, Aaron. I really enjoyed it.

A Climate Power report using U.S. Energy Information Administration data finds Americans’ electric bills are up 13% nationwide in 2025. That’s the national average, but in more costly states like New Jersey, bills are up more than 20%.

The group links higher costs to Trump’s July spending bill, saying it is “driving up utility costs and destroying jobs by removing cheaper, cleaner energy sources from the grid, all while funding new tax breaks for the oil and gas industries.”

Why it matters

Energy affordability is now a leading topic on Capitol Hill and will be a huge deciding factor in upcoming elections. Electricity demand is increasing faster than supply, particularly from data centers. We are simply not able to bring supply on as fast as demand is increasing. Or at least, that’s what we’re being told.

But renewables, especially solar, are the fastest power source to deploy by far. So why is the administration not using them?

The report tells another story: renewable projects that could have powered 13.17 million homes have been canceled since Trump took office. The EPA also terminated the $7B Solar for All program in August, which was directly targeted at lowering power costs for low-income families by paying for their rooftop solar panels.

At a time when we desperately need to bring prices down, we are cancelling the fastest-to-deploy projects so that the administration can hand contracts to fossil fuel companies, and the American people are suffering for it.

The White House has responded by saying that it’s fixing an energy crisis caused by Biden-era policies and that high energy prices are a “choice” by blue states. Climate Power expects that we’ll see further spikes as data centers and extreme heat lift demand while we wait for slower energy projects to come online.

If you’re not so keen on paying for the power needs of data centers out of your own pocket, it’s time to look at home solar. If you live in New Jersey, Pennsylvania, or Delaware, Exact Solar would love to speak with you about how that would work for your unique home.

PA Bright Expands Statewide

What’s new

Capital Good Fund is taking its Pennsylvania BRIGHT solar leasing program statewide, powered by a $3.2 million investment from Candide Group’s Afterglow Climate Justice Fund.

The program helps households earning under $165,000 or living in Low-Income, Disadvantaged Communities to go solar with no minimum credit score and no hidden fees.

Why it matters

With the Residential Solar Tax Credit ending after Dec. 31, 2025, programs like PA BRIGHT will be key to helping low and moderate-income households save money on their power bills by removing upfront costs.

The initiative has already helped more than 60 households statewide past participants in the program say it’s transparent and affordable. Hopefully, we’ll see more states following suit with programs like this as we move into a world with no residential tax credit.

BLM Approves First Solar Project in Five Months

What’s new

The Bureau of Land Management just approved amendments to the $2.3 billion Libra Solar project in southwestern Nevada, the first advance of a utility-scale solar project since the Department of the Interior started requiring Secretary Doug Burgum’s sign-off on clean energy projects planned on federal land back in July.

Why it matters

This breaks a months-long freeze that solar developers say felt like a near moratorium on public-lands projects.

The project, which was previously approved by the Biden administration, sat in limbo for over a year. The revised plan keeps 700 MW of solar plus 700 MW/2,800 MWh of storage, enough to power about 212,000 homes.

SEIA estimates more than 500 projects nationwide are in danger, with 18 states having over half of planned capacity at risk.

Sources

Energy bills in US have increased 13% since Trump took office, new report finds - ABC News

Analysis Shows Electric Bills Have Spiked 13% in Trump’s First Year—And His Own Policies Are to Blame | Common Dreams

POLITICO Pro | Article | For first time in months, BLM advances solar power project

After a five-month freeze, BLM finally advances a solar project

Pennsylvania BRIGHT expands solar leasing program statewide

Pennsylvania BRIGHT Expands Statewide with $3.2M Investment from Candide Group’s Afterglow Climate Justice Fund

Hervé explains how SunVoy helps established solar installers centralize data, keep customers informed, and tap into their “gold mine” of legacy customers to lower acquisition costs and grow through referrals.

You can connect with Hervé on LinkedIn here.

Listen to this episode on:

* YouTube

* Apple Podcasts

* Spotify

Expect to Learn:

* What “brand” really means for a solar company (it’s more than just a logo or truck wrap).

* Practical first steps for small and growing solar installers.

* Why most installers are sitting on a hidden gold mine of legacy customers they don’t cash in on.

Quotes from the Episode:

“You order a twenty dollar pizza and you can track every step. You order a twenty thousand dollar solar system and you can’t. That made no sense to me.”– Hervé Billiet

“Most installers hear from the three angry customers and forget about the hundreds of happy ones. Your legacy customers are a gold mine if you bring them back into your ecosystem.”– Hervé Billiet

Transcript:

Aaron Nichols:Hello, everyone, and welcome back to This Week in Solar. I’m your host, Aaron Nichols, the Research and Policy Specialist here at Exact Solar in Newtown, Pennsylvania.And today we have a very special guest. It’s Hervé Billiet, one of the co-founders of SunVoy. Hervé, I’ll let you introduce yourself.

Hervé Billiet:Hey, thank you. I’m Hervé Billiet. I’m the co-founder of SunVoy — a software to run and grow your solar business, where we really invest in marketing.

Aaron Nichols:Great. And I know that you built a version of this software back when you were working for Ipsun Solar.Well, I know you co-founded Ipsun Solar, and you owned it, and then you sold it. But you must have gone through a period of frustration with software to manage a solar business.So what was the moment when you and your co-founder said, “There’s nothing out there that works. We need to do this ourselves”?

Hervé Billiet:Yeah. So I co-founded a solar installation business. It started simple — in your basement you want to do something else with your life and fight climate change — and installing solar panels is one way to do that, very actively.You plug it in, it produces power — it’s phenomenal, the closest you get to magic.

The company grew. Once you have a few customers, maybe 10, you know them all by name — even their pets’ names. But then you grow the company, keep hiring people, you’re doing 100 installs, and you start forgetting who’s who. And once you have 1,000 customers, you don’t remember anymore.

Plus, you’re not in the trenches anymore. You have salespeople doing the work for you. As CEO of Ipsun Solar, I cared so much about branding.Branding is what differentiates you between every other installer you compete with. It doesn’t just magically happen — you need to do something about it.

One way is having your own customer portal — making sure you have that app in the App Store so when you sell solar, the homeowner can track the project.You order a $20 pizza and can track every step, but you order a $20,000 solar system and can’t track anything. That was one of the first problems I wanted to solve.

As you grow, you go from doing the work yourself to hiring people who do it better and more focused — you’re building a process.Going solar is a one-time thing for a homeowner, but for a solar company you have hundreds of projects at once. It’s very process-oriented — like a conveyor belt of solar projects moving through your business.

And in that conveyor belt, there were missing pieces. People get impatient, drop off, or cancel because they feel out of the loop.

You need a way to keep homeowners informed without adding too much work. You could hire more people, but automation helps.Automation is tricky — you shouldn’t automate everything, because people don’t want to talk to robots. I still prefer talking to a real person.So you automate what makes sense and let your team handle what’s specialized and human.

We got started because we couldn’t find software that could do this white-labeled. That’s key.I wanted the Ipsun Solar app, emails from our own domain, consistent colors — 100% white-labeled. That didn’t exist, so we built it ourselves.

And since I knew other solar CEOs, I realized if I built it for me, they’d want it too. So I designed it white-labeled from day one, knowing I’d resell it.

Aaron Nichols:Well, obviously it’s a powerful tool and white-labeling is very important.For anyone listening who doesn’t know what white-labeling is, it means the software runs in the background, but your company’s brand is what the customer sees.

You mentioned branding — and we’ve seen a lot of benefits from investing in it. Before we talk about the benefits, what do you believe a “brand” even is for a solar company?

Hervé Billiet:A brand is the perception of your company — and it’s often a reflection of the CEO or leadership team.

When someone sees your brand — online, on a vehicle, on a letter, or even just the name — that gives them an impression.If I say Nike, Toyota, Tesla — you instantly feel something. It might be positive or negative, but it’s something.

Ideally, when someone recognizes your logo or colors, it should immediately trigger: “That’s a good company. I want to work with them.”Branding isn’t just for businesses — individuals have personal brands too. You, Aaron, have one on LinkedIn. It’s everywhere.

Aaron Nichols:Yeah, I would say brand is how someone feels when they haven’t talked to you yet.But I’m interested in what benefits you saw from investing in brand at Ipsun — what kind of returns did it bring?

Hervé Billiet:I can go back to the early days of running Ipsun. I asked myself, “How do I sell something anyone with a hammer could also do?”

You realize not everyone can — and not everyone wants to.In the early days, I even helped some people do DIY installs, shipping materials and walking them through it over the phone. That didn’t work out well.

So I had to figure out how to differentiate myself. There were already plenty of solar companies in my area.Branding was the key — but how do you create a brand people actually associate with quality?

Becoming a B-Corp made a big difference. Joining the Amicus Solar Cooperative did too.That network of premium, independently owned solar companies helped us run differently.

In solar, you can be residential, commercial, or utility-scale. You can also be vertically integrated — meaning you handle everything from sales to installation to service — or not.Other companies just sell, or only do labor. You need to know which you are, who you compete with, and what you value.

For me, I valued giving my employees full benefits — 401(k), healthcare, real jobs, not gig work.That’s part of your brand too: how you treat people internally. Customers can feel that difference.

Aaron Nichols:Absolutely. And as you and I both know, the bar for investing in brand in the solar industry is still low.

At Exact Solar we’ve seen it snowball — the more you invest in it, the bigger it gets.But it’s hard for small business owners in survival mode to put time and money into something they might not see returns on for a year or more.So where can someone start — and how does SunVoy help with that?

Hervé Billiet:At SunVoy, we build customer portals and fleet management systems, but we cater to established solar companies.Not two-guys-and-a-truck operations — we stopped selling to them. We’ll still give them advice, but SunVoy makes sense once you have enough customers that you don’t remember everyone by name.

If you’re just getting started, focus on basics.First: your website. Don’t overpay — you can get far with WordPress or Squarespace. Make sure your email works, you have a clean signature, and you set up your Google My Business page.

Marketing’s goal is to make the phone ring. The moment someone calls you — that’s when it clicks.

And it does compound over time. You start showing up more, people find you, and soon you can’t believe it — “They’re calling me!”But it takes consistency. Just having a website isn’t enough — update your Google listing regularly. Post something every day if you can.

And if you’re blogging, here’s a tip: every time you answer the same customer question three times, write a blog post about it.Then next time, send them that link instead of retyping the answer. You look more professional, you save time, and you build your website traffic.

That’s how branding and automation meet — you build assets that keep paying back.

Also — take good pictures. Clean up the yard before you shoot, position your van nicely, make sure your logo’s visible.Little things matter. Even custom license plates helped us. “IPSUN” fit perfectly, so we numbered our vehicles — Ipsun 1, 2, 3, up to 11.People constantly told me they’d seen the plates. Small touches add up to a strong brand.

Aaron Nichols:And I know that SunVoy also helps solar companies lower their cost to acquire customers.That’s a huge deal. The bigger a company gets, the harder it is to make sure every customer has a great experience.How does SunVoy help solve that and bring acquisition costs down?

Hervé Billiet:SunVoy builds white-labeled customer portals and fleet management systems. That’s the short version.

The long version: most established solar companies already have a CRM — Salesforce, HubSpot, NetSuite — full of data. They don’t want to switch.So we integrate with 20+ CRMs, pull data from them, and show it to homeowners in a clean, branded interface.

That keeps customers informed automatically as their project moves along.

And the real key to lowering acquisition costs is leveraging your legacy customers.Most installers are sitting on a gold mine — hundreds of happy customers who’ve just forgotten about you.

Installers remember the few angry calls, but forget the hundreds who are thrilled. SunVoy brings them back into your ecosystem.We connect their inverter data, show them lifetime savings in dollars, not just kilowatt-hours, and give them a place to engage again.

Once they’re back in, they see your referral tools, your online store, your add-ons — batteries, EV chargers, smart panels — and you get more referrals and repeat business.

It’s about consistency. You can’t just blast one email and call it done. You need to meet people where they are — in-app, by email, through updates.

Our best clients have customer acquisition costs under $1,000. It’s repeatable, process-driven, and proven.

Aaron Nichols:That makes total sense. Solar’s biggest challenge is that it works too well — people forget it exists.

Most customers don’t even remember who installed their system years later because it just runs silently.Like your partner said, when he asked people who installed their solar, most couldn’t recall — they’ve had so many contractors since then.

That’s why brand matters.

Hervé Billiet:Exactly. I remember asking my own brother-in-law, whose solar I’d helped arrange in San Diego, “Who installed your system?”He couldn’t remember. And this was someone I personally referred to an Amicus member!

He loved the system, used the app, even referred neighbors — but couldn’t name the installer.That’s when I knew we needed to fix this.

Because solar installers work hard. Things go wrong sometimes — it’s construction — but good companies own their mistakes and make it right.So after all that effort, it’s a shame when customers forget your name. That’s what SunVoy solves.

Aaron Nichols:Well, to bring it home, I ask everyone the same question.

A few months ago I was at my grandma’s 80th birthday party, and it hit me — she was born just ten years after the Rural Electrification Act.At that time, all we knew was how to burn things to create electricity.

Within her lifetime she saw the invention of PV cells, Jimmy Carter’s solar panels on the White House, and the drop in cost from hundreds of dollars per watt to just cents today.

So — if you’re just spitballing — what do you think clean energy looks like 80 years from now?

Hervé Billiet:Before I answer that, when I was 15, I read an article in a science magazine about electric cars.It said EVs would one day have so much stored power that when you plug them in at home, your car would charge your house — not the other way around.

The image showed a futuristic car powering lights in the wilderness. And now it’s happening — people have literally powered concerts off Ford F-150 Lightnings.

So that’s one.

Looking forward, I think we’re heading to a world where the grid becomes decentralized.It was built for centralized power plants that needed huge investment and monopolies to distribute energy.

But now we can harness the sun directly — solar panels are like wireless receivers of fusion energy.The only fusion reactor we’ve got that works is the sun — and we already capture it.

I think nations are now racing to be the first fully renewable, battery-powered economies.Whoever gets there first gains a huge competitive edge — near-free energy powering every industry.

For homeowners, it means total independence — complete energy sovereignty.

Aaron Nichols:Yeah, and you end up completely sovereign — you don’t owe anyone for power, you’re not beholden to anyone.

So thank you for coming on today, Hervé. And where can people find you?

Hervé Billiet:Go to SunVoy.com.

And if you’re watching the video, you’ll see the logo behind me — that’s how you spell it.Also, for anyone starting out with marketing, we offer a free website analysis tool. It reviews your site and gives tips on how to improve it.We don’t build websites — it’s just a free resource we share from our experience helping solar companies grow.

Aaron Nichols:Well, thank you so much. And for everyone listening, that’s been This Week in Solar. I’ll talk to you next week.

Freedom Forever, the second-largest residential solar installer in the U.S. as of 2025, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy on Wednesday.

The company reported a massive capital gap, with estimated liabilities between $500 million and $1 billion against assets of $100-$500 million.

Why it matters:

This bankruptcy filing follows a string of national solar contractors that have filed for bankruptcy, including:

* The original SunPower

* Sunnova

* Posigen

* Titan

Industry experts point to the expiration of the residential solar tax credit and a shift toward third-party ownership (TPO) models (leases and PPAs) as the reason so many larger solar companies have recently failed.

Go Deeper:

Freedom Forever faces claims from 50,000 to 100,000 different creditors. Just weeks ago, the Texas Attorney General targeted Freedom Forever in a crackdown on “fraudulent and deceptive” sales practices.

At its peak, Freedom Forever had more than 3,000 employees, but the company recently shuttered 10 state markets and laid off 20% of its staff before filing for bankruptcy.

If you’re a homeowner or commercial building owner who sees news about large solar companies like Freedom Forever going out of business and feels hesitant, we want to reassure you.

Solar is a great thing when done right. At Exact Solar, we’ve watched hundreds of people feel empowered when they escape the cycle of ever-rising utility bills. If you or your friends are considering solar, and you live in New Jersey or Pennsylvania, talk to us at Exact Solar, and we’ll build you a solar energy system the right way.

If you live outside those states, look up Amicus Solar Cooperative or WattBot. These tools are designed to help you find locally owned, reputable solar companies that have been in business for decades and treat their customers right.

Plug-In Solar May Soon Be Legal in Five States

Last week, Maine became the second state to legalize balcony (plug-in) solar after Utah legalized it last year.

Plug-in solar in Virginia still awaits the governor’s signature.

Last week and earlier this week, Colorado and Maryland became the fourth and fifth states to advance legislation to their governor’s desks.

This legislation allows residents to buy and install solar panel systems that plug directly into standard wall outlets, allowing renters and those who cannot afford traditional rooftop installations some relief from exponentially rising utility bills.

These systems require no utility interconnection applications or expensive permits.

If you want to see where your state stands on legalizing plug-in solar, go to Bright Saver’s State Tracker or to pluginsolarguide.com. Both are linked in the sources section below.

Sources: