In this episode, Emilie and Ashlie sit down with Casey McFarland of Reliq Travel to give a deep dive into an upcoming, once-in-a-lifetime guided tour to Greece happening April 7–16, 2027.

We’re keeping this group small and intimate, and spots are very limited! Currently, we only have room for two couples and one solo female traveler (to room with a fantastic community member). Listen in as Casey walks through the sacred history, myth, and geography of this incredible itinerary.

What We’ll Explore:

• Athens: Uncovering ancient religious origins, Greek mythology, and the divine feminine.
• Delphi: Connecting with deep history and grounding spirituality in an epic mountain setting.
• Meteora: Visiting active, 1,000-year-old monasteries perched atop giant granite monoliths.
• Crete: Wrapping up our journey exploring ancient Minoan civilization and stunning coastal beauty.

Links & Resources:

• 🇬🇷 Book Your Spot & View Full Greece Tour Itinerary
• 📖 Read Melanie McFarland’s Article on Delphi’s Oracle
• 📲 Follow Us on Instagram @thatschurchpodcast

Enjoyed this episode? Don't forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share with a friend!

What began as an invitation from Pastor Reba to talk about faith, interfaith work, and peacebuilding quickly became a full day of connection. After inviting us to speak with the church council, the congregation welcomed us back during a summer BBQ filled with bouncy houses, incredible food, and people of all ages.

This was the first time we had ever attempted community-style interviews. We bought microphones, stepped into the unknown, and listened.

We spoke with youth, young couples raising small children, longtime members who have seen decades of change, and those who come and go but still feel at home. We talked with Pastor Reba and a member preparing to step into a lay pastor role to assist her. Across every conversation, one theme remained constant: everyone feels welcome here.

Whether people arrived as lifelong Lutherans or from entirely different faith backgrounds—or none at all—each person shared how deeply accepted and valued they feel. Two older women, standing close and gently holding each other’s hands, embodied the tenderness and belonging that lives within this community.

This episode took time to edit, but it felt like the perfect way to close Season 2.

Looking Ahead to Season 3

Season 3 includes conversations with Gerlyn Henry, David Hayward (The Naked Pastor), and many other thoughtful voices we’re excited to share.

As a growing nonprofit, we are also seeking a video editor who is interested in donating their time, gaining hands-on experience, and working with an organization focused on interfaith dialogue and peacebuilding.
📧 Interested? Email admin@thatschurch.org

Upcoming Event — March 2026

📅 March 7
📍 Compass Gallery

Becoming Sovereign

Claiming Your Story, Honoring Your Agency, and Building Our Beloved Community

Presenters:

• McArthur Krishna
• Maxine Hanks
• Amy Watkins Jensen of Women on the Stand

Each year, we host a women-centered event in March and an interfaith-focused event in the fall. This gathering centers women’s voices, personal agency, and the work of building beloved community. We would love to have you join us.

Connect With Us

📸 Instagram: @thatschurchpodcast
🌐 Website: https://thatschurch.org

In this episode, we discuss:

• Faith in the Public Square: Navigating ministry and social justice in today's climate.

• The Call to Lament: Centering human dignity (Imago Dei) during the crisis in Gaza.

• Bridges, Not Barriers: How radical hospitality humanizes the immigrant and the refugee.

• Prophetic Joy: Why finding joy in turbulence is a vital form of spiritual resistance.

Connect with our Guest:

• Instagram: @Gerlynhenry

• Location: St. Jude’s in Scarborough, Ontario (through July 2026).

Annual Women’s Event: Becoming Sovereign

• Full Title: Becoming Sovereign - Claiming your story, honoring your agency & Building our Beloved Community

• Date: March 7th, 2026

• Time: 6:00 PM – 8:30 PM (Doors open at 5:30 PM)

• Tickets: Available at thatschurch.org

Book Club & Field Trips

• Book Club: March 12th | 7:00 PM | Draper, Utah.

• Easter Field Trip: Join us at St. Mary’s Episcopal Church in Provo, Utah.

• Date: Thursday, April 2nd (Evening).

Follow the journey:

• Instagram: @thatschurchpodcast

• Website: thatschurch.org

Upcoming Events & Community Gatherings

Ariel shares her experiences attending different religious spaces, navigating faith alongside LGBTQ+ loved ones, and teaching with vulnerability and creativity. She also talks about her work as a professional genealogist and how uncovering family stories can be a deeply spiritual practice—one rooted in memory, belonging, and community.

This episode explores what it means to stay connected without certainty, to lead with compassion, and to find God through people rather than perfection.

• Exploring other churches with honesty and openness

• Holding faith with nuance

• Supporting LGBTQ+ loved ones in religious spaces

• Women’s leadership in faith communities

• Genealogy as sacred storytelling

• Community as a spiritual practice

As Season 2 begins to close, this conversation feels like a bridge—honoring where we’ve been and pointing toward what’s next.

Join us for our next That’s Church event:

March 7 at 6:00 PM
Doors open at 5:30 PM
📍 The Compass Gallery
Provo, Utah

Season 3 will focus more on leaders, professional speakers, and religious thinkers whose work aligns with the heart of That’s Church.

Upcoming guests include:

• David Hayward, also known as The Naked Pastor

• Gerlyn Henry

Season 3 will be focused entirely outside of our own religion.

That’s Church is a nonprofit seeking a podcast editor interested in gaining experience and building a portfolio through meaningful work. Reach out if you’re interested.

📸 Instagram: @thatschurchpodcast
🌐 Website: thatschurch.org

Topics include:📣 UPCOMING EVENT🌿 LOOKING AHEAD TO SEASON 3🎧 CALL FOR AN EDITOR🔗 CONNECT WITH US

• Ashli Carnicelli – Writer, singer, and passionate believer in the Divine Feminine

• Trina Caudle – Editor, historian, scoutmaster, and macro-photographer

• McArthur Krishna – Author, artist, and advocate for spiritual wholeness

Topics Covered:

• Ashli’s Catholic upbringing and connection to Mary, the mother of Jesus

• McArthur’s years in India and insights into Hindu goddesses and the Divine Feminine

• Trina’s interfaith experience as a scoutmaster in Methodist and Presbyterian spaces

• Tangible stories of connection with Heavenly Mother

• How Mother in Heaven: A Gospel Topics Essay Study Guide came to life

• Advice for those just beginning to explore their relationship with Heavenly Mother

Resources Mentioned:

• 📘 Mother in Heaven: A Gospel Topics Essay Study Guide – Order on Amazon

• 📝 Gospel Topics Essay: Mother in Heaven – Read it here

Follow Us:

📸 Instagram: @thatschurchpodcast

🎧 Listen to Meagan’s podcast Beyond the Shadow of Doubt wherever you get your podcasts

🧘‍♀️ SPONSOR SHOUTOUT

We’re also excited to share something personal that’s been helping us on our own spiritual path. Maryam Jubera of Mental Mocean offers “meditations that move the mind”and they truly do. With a Master’s in Coaching and advanced NLP certification, plus a life full of real healing, Maryam brings unmatched depth to her work.

Her online meditation program is just $5/month, and it’s designed to be accessible, transformative, and lasting. You can find her on Instagram at @mentalmocean and explore her offerings at www.mentalmocean.life. Use our code THATCHURCH50 when you join.

Before we dive in, we want to highlight Rising Violet, the nonprofit Tiffany founded. Rising Violet provides one-time $1,000 gifts to women pursuing financial independence, with priority given to mothers who once relied on a partner and now need to be self-supporting. Applications are accepted three times a year (deadlines: Jan 31, May 31, Sep 30). Applicants must live in the U.S., complete a short essay and call with a board member, and consent to a background check limited to financial crimes. These gifts are a powerful way to help women move toward stability with dignity.

Episode summary

Allyson Reynolds and Tiffany Sowby, co-hosts of The Sisterhood Podcast, join us to talk about friendship, faith, and the power of hard conversations. Their podcast was born out of a love for women’s stories and a need for candid dialogue around the intersection of faith, politics, social issues, and interfaith experiences. Together, they’ve built a space where women who love the gospel but sometimes struggle with the church can feel less alone.

About our guests

The Sisterhood Podcast grew from Allyson and Tiffany’s years of writing and organizing with Power of Moms. Over time it has evolved into an encouraging place for women across the faith spectrum—orthodox, nuanced, or post-LDS.

• Allyson grew up mostly in the Midwest, has lived all over the U.S., and now lives in Minnesota.

• Tiffany was born and raised in England and now lives in Utah. Together they’re raising nine kids, plus a dog and some goats.

What we cover

• The friendship and creative spark that led to The Sisterhood Podcast

• Why they resisted becoming “just another Mormon mom podcast” and leaned into broader women’s issues

• How interfaith experiences shaped their faith and outlook

• Backing each other up in church conversations, not just speaking out

• Creating a welcoming space across the faith spectrum

• Why practice makes hard conversations easier

Stories & themes

• Tiffany’s interfaith childhood: growing up LDS near London alongside Catholic, Muslim, and Hindu friends

• Allyson’s perspective shift: from an “only true church” mindset in the Midwest to learning from a Muslim roommate at BYU and later a mission in Japan

• Utah culture chats: the “mission field” mindset and assumptions about who is or isn’t LDS

• Learning to speak up: why courage and community matter in making space for diverse voices

Books mentioned

• If the Tide Turns — Rachel Rueckert

• The Distance Between Us — Reyna Grande

• The Courage to Be Disliked — Ichiro Kishimi & Fumitake Koga

Light-hearted closers

Stories of bumpers needing babysitters, surprise window encounters after a shower, and awkward pediatrician moments because we always end with humor.

Connect with us

Follow along for updates on episodes, events, field trips, and our upcoming retreat:

• Instagram: @thatschurchpodcast

• Website: thatschurch.org

Kristy is also legally blind, and later in the episode, we have an open and insightful discussion about how her vision has impacted her life. She shares stories of overcoming obstacles, building resilience, and even how her work as a massage therapist has given her a unique perspective on human connection.

But that’s not all—Kristy is also an incredibly talented musician! She was the lead singer in a band and even opened for several well-known artists. Check out her music here: Kristy Lawson - Live Performance.

We also talk about:

✨ The differences between religious communities in Utah

✨ Navigating friendships and faith identity in a dominant religious culture

✨ How vision challenges shaped Kristy’s personal strength

✨ The importance of genuine kindness and breaking down barriers between people of different backgrounds

Don’t forget to grab your tickets for our upcoming Divine Feminine and Women’s Empowerment Event on March 8th! Get yours at tinyurl.com/empower2025.

Follow us on Instagram: @thatschurchpodcast

Rate, review, and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts!

Topics Discussed:

• A heartfelt discussion about the ongoing Israeli-Palestinian conflict and its ripple effects globally, especially in the United States.

• Reflections on navigating polarization in America and fostering unity through meaningful action.

• The meaningful conversation Jenan had as a Muslim woman with her friend Rebecca Russo, a Jewish woman, exploring their mutual respect and shared hope for peace.

• Practical steps to create peace and foster understanding across lines of difference.

• Jenan’s background as a storyteller, educator, and bridge-builder.

• The power of interfaith dialogue and civically engaged leadership.

• Stories from Jenan’s personal journey, including her family’s inspiring legacy of service.

Resources Mentioned:

• Podcast: Faith in the Elections

• Podcast: Voices of Interfaith America https://www.interfaithamerica.org/voices-of-ia/

• Interfaith America Magazine

• Online Curriculum: Bridge Builder Basics

Key Quotes:

• “True, there is silver under the darkness, but few care to dig in the night for the possible treasure of stars.” – Gwendolyn Brooks, as shared by Jenan.

• “Diversity is not just the differences you like, but also the differences you don’t.” – Ibu Patel, founder of Interfaith America.

Connect with Us:

• Instagram: @thatschurchpodcast

• Subscribe to “That’s Church!” wherever you listen to podcasts.

Thank you for listening! Let’s continue to build bridges, create peace, and respect each other’s stories.

We love the beautiful art she created for us to depict her for this episode. ♥️

Ashlie and I met Maddie by chance in a store, and from there, our connection blossomed into an open, fascinating discussion on her spirituality, paganism, and witchcraft. She even visited us for a Reiki session that was healing, accurate, and transformative.

Topics Covered

• Introduction to Paganism and Witchcraft

Maddie explains the difference between paganism, witchcraft, and Wicca, highlighting that paganism is rooted in earth-centered beliefs, while Wicca, though influential, has certain elements she doesn’t fully embrace.

• Astrology and Divination

Maddie shares her love for astrology, tarot, and palm reading, explaining how these practices help her connect with nature and the divine. She dispels myths and discusses the spiritual and psychological aspects of these arts.

• Christianity and Witchcraft Coexistence

Maddie combines her Christian beliefs with her pagan practices, finding Jesus as a deity within her belief system. She discusses the misunderstandings in both pagan and Christian circles around this integration.

• Women’s Empowerment and the Divine Feminine

Maddie finds strength and freedom in paganism’s embrace of the divine feminine, in contrast to the LDS Church’s limited roles for women. She reflects on the empowering aspect of femininity celebrated in her current faith.

• Nature as Sacred

Nature is deeply sacred for Maddie. She describes meaningful experiences in the forests of Washington state and her deep connection with animals, explaining how nature plays a central role in her spiritual practices.

• Community and Solitude in Paganism

Although often practiced alone, paganism allows for community through covens. Maddie, however, is a solitary practitioner, cherishing her one-on-one connection with her beliefs, with a shout-out to her beloved familiar, a jumping spider named Arlo.

Tune in to explore Maddie’s rich, nuanced worldview, her journey from LDS roots to a pagan identity, and the inspiring message that spirituality is a deeply personal and evolving journey.

**Episode Summary:**

In this powerful episode, Mandy Green joins us for an insightful conversation about Mary Magdalene, one of the most misunderstood yet pivotal figures in Christian history. Together, we explore how Mary’s life and legacy provide deep spiritual insights for today’s world. Mandy unpacks the transformative role Mary Magdalene plays in her own faith journey and how she symbolizes liberation, healing, and nurturing for so many.

**Key Discussion Points:**

- **Mary Magdalene's Role in Christian History**: How Mary’s presence and actions have been historically underrepresented but remain deeply influential.

- **Spiritual Significance**: Mandy shares how Mary Magdalene has become a spiritual anchor, helping to sustain faith by offering a model of healing, compassion, and strength.

- **Healing and Liberation**: The conversation touches on the deeper symbolic meaning of feeding the hungry and freeing the captives—both literal and spiritual interpretations.

- **Excavating the Texts**: A discussion on how much can be learned from the few canonized texts and how Mary Magdalene’s story is present if we’re willing to dig deeper.

- **Empowerment Through Mary Magdalene’s Example**: Insights into how Mary’s life story can guide and inspire those seeking to break chains and find healing in their own lives.

**Quotes from the Episode:**

- "Mary Magdalene feeds the hungry, liberates the captives, and heals wounds we’ve carried for so long."

- "She really is the balm to this wound if we will examine her life and look at the few things we have left."

- "It’s in exploring her legacy that we find clues to quench our spiritual thirst and nourish our hunger."

**Resources Mentioned:**

- References to scriptural texts and historical accounts of Mary Magdalene.

- Mandy Green’s reflections on her personal faith journey and connection with Mary.

**Tune in to Learn:**

- How Mary Magdalene’s life can serve as a guidepost for those seeking deeper spiritual connection.

- What we can learn by revisiting her story and reimagining her role in spiritual history.

**Follow Us:**

For more episodes and updates, follow us on Instagram @thatschurchpodcast and stay connected for more discussions about faith, spirituality, and the incredible women who shape our understanding of both.

The Journey of Faith & Identity: PART 1 on Religious PTSD - Motherhood - Finding spirituality in Atheism & philosophy

This Juneteenth we have a very special & intriguing episode. Introduction: - Tara Herbert's life story is a testament to the complex journey of faith and identity. - Born in Lake Charles, Louisiana, and raised in Salt Lake City, Utah, Tara was adopted by a white Mormon family, experiencing life as a black woman in a predominantly white community. - Her upbringing in the LDS faith included serving a Mormon mission and a temple marriage. - In 2019, Tara left Mormonism, blending atheism with spirituality, as part of her broader narrative that includes reconnecting with her biological family, navigating PTSD, motherhood, racism, and infertility. Impactful Interview: - Tara's story gained attention on Mormon Stories, where her interview touched and connected with many people, resonating deeply within the community. - Her openness and honesty in discussing her journey have inspired others facing similar challenges. Part One Highlights: - Tara discusses the struggles and resilience she experienced in motherhood & religion. - She shares her journey of leaving the LDS church and finding her new path and spirituality through different philosophies. She talks about why it's easier not to believe in a life after death. It's fascinating. Part Two Preview (Patreon Exclusive): .- In part two, available exclusively on Patreon https://www.patreon.com/thatschurch, Tara delves deeper into her ongoing quest for personal fulfillment and meaning. - She discusses her experiences with racism, scrupulosity, disbelief, transformation, and belonging. She talks about growing up wanting things outside of her religion and the path she took. - The conversation offers a heartfelt exploration of Tara's journey and the complexities of human spirituality. Conclusion: - Join us for an insightful and inspiring conversation with Tara Herbert about her journey through faith, disbelief, and her ongoing quest for personal fulfillment. Visit our instagram @thatschurchpodcast Visit our Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/thatschurch

In this powerful episode, Mandy Green joins us for an insightful conversation about Mary Magdalene, one of the most misunderstood yet pivotal figures in Christian history. Together, we explore how Mary’s life and legacy provide deep spiritual insights for today’s world. Mandy unpacks the transformative role Mary Magdalene plays in her own faith journey and how she symbolizes liberation, healing, and nurturing for so many.

**Key Discussion Points:**

- **Mary Magdalene's Role in Christian History**: How Mary’s presence and actions have been historically underrepresented but remain deeply influential.

- **Spiritual Significance**: Mandy shares how Mary Magdalene has become a spiritual anchor, helping to sustain faith by offering a model of healing, compassion, and strength.

- **Healing and Liberation**: The conversation touches on the deeper symbolic meaning of feeding the hungry and freeing the captives—both literal and spiritual interpretations.

- **Excavating the Texts**: A discussion on how much can be learned from the few canonized texts and how Mary Magdalene’s story is present if we’re willing to dig deeper.

- **Empowerment Through Mary Magdalene’s Example**: Insights into how Mary’s life story can guide and inspire those seeking to break chains and find healing in their own lives.

**Quotes from the Episode:**

- "Mary Magdalene feeds the hungry, liberates the captives, and heals wounds we’ve carried for so long."

- "She really is the balm to this wound if we will examine her life and look at the few things we have left."

- "It’s in exploring her legacy that we find clues to quench our spiritual thirst and nourish our hunger."

**Resources Mentioned:**

- References to scriptural texts and historical accounts of Mary Magdalene.

- Mandy Green’s reflections on her personal faith journey and connection with Mary.

**Tune in to Learn:**

- How Mary Magdalene’s life can serve as a guidepost for those seeking deeper spiritual connection.

- What we can learn by revisiting her story and reimagining her role in spiritual history.

**Follow Us:**

For more episodes and updates, follow us on Instagram @thatschurchpodcast and stay connected for more discussions about faith, spirituality, and the incredible women who shape our understanding of both.

**Episode Description:**

We’re thrilled to have Aubrey Chaves, a host and executive board member of *Faith Matters*, join us on today’s episode of *That’s Church*. Aubrey has been a guiding light for many on their faith journeys, and she’ll be MC'ing the upcoming *Restore Conference* this September 5-7. As a special offer, our listeners and followers can use the code *That’s Church* for 20% off their registration! And, if the cost is a barrier, scholarships are available because the conference organizers want everyone who needs and wants to attend to be there.

In this episode, Aubrey shares her story of growing up in a close-knit church community that provided a foundation for her faith journey. We delve into her experiences of deconstruction and reconstruction, exploring the complexities and beauty of finding one's place within or outside of traditional faith structures. Aubrey’s candid reflections on the struggles and questions she’s faced—and how sharing these on her podcast has fostered connection and healing—will resonate with anyone navigating their own spiritual path.

**Highlights:**

- Aubrey's supportive upbringing in a church community and how it shaped her.

- The role of faith as an anchor during her early years.

- The challenges of deconstructing long-held beliefs and the personal impact of this process.

- How sharing these experiences publicly has built meaningful connections.

- The ongoing journey of reconstructing faith in an authentic way.

**Upcoming Event:**

Don’t miss the *Restore Conference*, September 5-7, where Aubrey Chaves will be MC'ing. Our listeners can get 20% off with the code *That’s Church*. If cost is an issue, scholarships are available, ensuring everyone who wants or needs to attend can be there. Get tickets now at https://faithmatters.org .

**Listen now on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.**

• Founder and Executive Director of Leading Saints

• Host of the Leading Saints Podcast – available anywhere you get your podcasts

• Author of Is God Disappointed in Me? Removing Shame from a Gospel of Grace – Get it here on Amazon (available in paperback and audio)

Follow Kurt on Instagram:@leadingsaints

Episode Highlights:

• Kurt’s perspective on grace and why God isn’t disappointed in us

• The difference between correction and disappointment

• The role of grace and commandments in our relationship with God

• How visiting other faiths has enriched his spiritual understanding

🎉 Upcoming Event! 🎉

Join us for our Divine Feminine and Women’s Empowerment Event on National Women’s Day, March 8th, from 5 PM to 8 PM at The Compass Gallery in Provo, Utah.

✨ This event is for both men and women who want to explore the power of the divine feminine through art, conversation, and meaningful connections.

🎟️ Get your tickets now at: tinyurl.com/empower2025

Thanks for listening to That’s Church! Don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and review the podcast. Follow us on Instagram @thatschurchpodcast for more updates and behind-the-scenes content!

Heart of a Woman Retreat is a life changing experience. Time to get away from life in the mountains & connect with God personally.

**Episode Summary:**

In this special episode of *That’s Church*, Emilie Call welcomes Melanie Meszaros and Celeste Jensen, the co-founders of the nondenominational Christian retreat, *Heart of a Woman*. Joined by her good friend Tristin Duncan, who originally introduced her to the retreat, Emilie dives into the inspiring origins and evolution of this impactful event.

Melanie shares the journey that led to the creation of *Heart of a Woman*, from an unexpected job opportunity to the powerful experiences that women encounter at the retreat. Celeste, who joined early on, has witnessed and contributed to its growth, helping women connect more deeply with their divine identity.

**Key Takeaways:**

- **Introduction to Heart of a Woman:** The retreat was born out of a demand from men who had experienced the transformational power of a similar retreat, *Warrior Heart*, and wanted something similar for their wives. With the support and encouragement of her peers, Melanie embarked on creating a nondenominational Christian retreat specifically for women.

- **The Early Days:** Melanie recounts how the first *Heart of a Woman* retreat was held in 2010 with just 16 women. Despite feeling initially overwhelmed, she was deeply moved by the profound changes the participants experienced.

- **Growth and Expansion:** Over the years, the retreat has grown significantly, moving from small intimate gatherings to larger events hosting up to 120 women at the beautiful Canyon Ranch in Wanship, Utah.

- **The Transformational Power:** Both Melanie and Celeste highlight the incredible transformation women undergo during the retreat, which focuses on helping them rediscover their feminine hearts and deepen their relationship with God.

**Discount Code and Scholarship Information:**

Don’t miss out on the next *Heart of a Woman* retreat happening from October 10-12. Registration is now open, and spots are filling up quickly! Use our exclusive code *THATSCHURCH24* to get $50 off your registration, but hurry—this offer is only available for 14 days from the release of this episode.

If you’re concerned about the cost, *Heart of a Woman* offers scholarship options thanks to generous donors. Applying is easy—just visit their website at [theheartofawoman.net](https://theheartofawoman.net), scroll down, and click the 'Scholarship Application' button under the second registration button.

Follow *Heart of a Woman* on Instagram and Facebook @theheartofawoman for more updates.

**Connect with Us:**

Be sure to follow us on Instagram @thatschurchpodcast to stay updated on future episodes and connect with our community.

“I’ll Stay Where You Want Me To Stay”: How Latter-day Saints Navigate Conflicting Social Values While Remaining Committed to Their Faith. This was the Thesis Venice spent years of research and case work on and we will benefit from her conclusions. 

Instagram: @thatschurchpodcast

Summary The conversation revolves around Venice Jardine sharing stories from her research on Latter-day Saints and their struggles in the church while staying in the church. She discusses the experiences of individuals who have found inspiration and purpose in their faith, despite facing challenges and conflicting beliefs within the church. The conversation also touches on the importance of serving others and finding common ground with people who have different perspectives. In this conversation, Venice and Emilie discuss the importance of being in community with people who have different beliefs and perspectives. They emphasize the need to listen and understand others, even if we don't agree with them. They share personal experiences of maintaining relationships with friends who have different beliefs and how it has helped them grow. They also discuss the role of church and community in supporting each other through struggles and the importance of love and empathy. The conversation concludes with a powerful quote from Sister Chako Okazaki about the empathy and understanding of Jesus.

Keywords

Latter-day Saints, faith, inspiration, purpose, challenges, conflicting beliefs, serving others, common ground, community, empathy, understanding, relationships, beliefs, church, love

Takeaways

Faith can provide inspiration and purpose, even in the face of challenges and conflicting beliefs within a religious community. Serving others and looking for opportunities to help can bring fulfillment and a sense of belonging. Finding common ground with people who have different perspectives can lead to greater understanding and acceptance. Church can be a place to connect with others and make a positive impact, regardless of personal beliefs or doubts. Being in community with people who have different beliefs and perspectives is important for personal growth and understanding. Listening and understanding others, even if we don't agree with them, is crucial for building relationships and fostering empathy. Church and community provide support and a space to struggle together, rather than expecting everyone to have the same beliefs. God loves every person and wants to be in relationship with them, regardless of their beliefs or struggles. Jesus understands and empathizes with the individual experiences and pain of each person.

Chapters

Introduction and Personal Experiences

Stories of Inspiration and Purpose

Navigating Conflicting Beliefs

The Power of Serving Others

Finding Meaning in Church

Church and Community: Supporting Each Other Through Struggles

God's Love for Every Person, Regardless of Beliefs

Jesus: Understanding and Empathy for Individual Experiences

Conclusion

Sound Bites

"I really realized that church wasn't about what I could get out of it as much as what I could give."

"If we go to church and start looking around and at other people and stop worrying about ourselves and our own righteousness, our own reputation, our own standing... that's the real purpose of church."

"It doesn't have to be about me... I really hadn't stepped back to think, well, what can I do for others?"

"It is incredibly stretching and difficult to be in community with people that you totally disagree with."

"It's not about changing someone's mind all the time, but trying to understand them and trying to just see them and see what they're about."

• How to talk to teens about Church history and faith struggles

• What it means to be honest without oversharing

• Casey’s own break from religion and what he learned visiting over 50 churches

• Building bridges between nuanced and orthodox members

• Casey’s Italy tours and upcoming Superstition Tour with Patrick Mason

Big news: That’s Church is now an official nonprofit! And Casey has joined our board as Executive Research Board Member. Stay tuned, we’ve got exciting things ahead.

Follow Casey & Learn More:

• Instagram: @pioneeringparadox

• Travel Tours & Updates: www.iamcasey.com/travel

  
  

Follow That's Church. :

• Instagram: ⁠@thatschurchpodcast

Topics Covered:

1. **Growing Up in the Church**:

- Tara's adoption from Lake Charles and moving to South Jordan, Utah.

- Her experiences being raised in a predominantly white family with both biological and adopted siblings.

2. **Childhood and Church**:

- Reflections on a joyful and active childhood.

- Anecdotes about neighborhood games and childhood memories.

3. **Vulnerability and Safety**:

- Discussing feelings of safety and support within her family and church community.

4. **Adolescence and Pushing Boundaries**:

- Exploring teenage years and the challenges of navigating personal identity.

5. **Different Perspectives on the Ward**:

- Contrasting experiences and views within the church community.

6. **Fraternity Parties and Scripture Study**:

- Balancing social life with religious obligations during young adulthood.

7. **Different Family Dynamics**:

- Insights into the varied family structures and relationships.

8. **Conflicting Values**:

- Managing tensions between personal beliefs and church teachings.

9. **Navigating Peer Pressure**:

- Strategies for handling peer influence and maintaining personal integrity.

10. **Lack of Education and Understanding**:

- Addressing gaps in education, particularly around sensitive topics.

11. **Shame and Rejection**:

- Dealing with feelings of shame and the impact of rejection from peers and community.

12. **Seeking Connection in Unhealthy Ways**:

- How a lack of understanding and support can lead to unhealthy coping mechanisms.

13. **Repression and Stifling of Sexuality**:

- Discussing the effects of inadequate sex education and the repression of natural sexual development.

14. **Exploring Sexuality and Coping Mechanisms**:

- Personal stories of sexual awakening and the challenges of reconciling these with religious teachings.

15. **Changing Narratives and Portrayals of Sexuality**:

- How narratives around sexuality and gender have evolved within the church and society.

16. **Female Empowerment and Representation**:

- Celebrating stories of female empowerment and the importance of representation.

17. **Experiencing Shame and Repentance**:

- Comparing experiences of confession and repentance in different religious contexts.

18. **Mission Experience in Georgia**:

- Sharing insights and challenges faced during her missionary work, including dealing with racism.

19. **Institutionalized Racism in Mormonism**:

- Addressing systemic racism and ignorance within the church and broader community.

Join us for a deep and heartfelt conversation with Tara Herbert as we explore her journey through adoption, childhood, adolescence, and her evolving relationship with faith and identity.

Welcome to the Season Two premiere of "That’s Church"! In our first episode, we sit down with Patrick Mason, a renowned author and scholar whose expertise in religious studies illuminates our understanding of faith and community. As the author of influential books like "Planted" and "Restoration," Patrick shares his profound insights into navigating faith in a complex world. Episode Highlights: 1. **New Podcast ** Patrick is the Co-Host on a new Podcast, "Proclaim Peace." https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/proclaim-peace/id1729233156?i=1000644250751 Proclaim Peace is produced by the organization, "Mormon Women for Ethical Government." https://www.mormonwomenforethicalgovernment.org/ Proclaim Peace is also Co-Produced by the organization, "Faith Matters." https://faithmatters.org/ Patrick outlines his goals for bridging gaps between various faith communities through understanding and empathy. 2. **Building Bridges in Faith:** We delve into practical steps that individuals and church communities can take to foster appreciation and connection with other faith traditions, aiming to cultivate a more inclusive religious culture. 3. **Engaging Productively with the World:** Patrick explores the concept of being 'in the world, but not of the world,' offering a fresh perspective on how believers can engage with the world around them in meaningful and positive ways. Listen to Part 2 on our Patreon patreon.com/thatschurch For stories including but not limited to ... ( you won't want to miss it. Patrick is so great at helping us to find measurable solutions to big problems! ) 1. **Patriarchy and women in the LDS church:** sensitive topics like the role of women in the church. Patrick provides suggestions for addressing these issues within congregations, with a special focus on enhancing the inclusion and treatment of women. 2. **Rethinking the 'One True Church' Narrative:** The conversation turns to the narrative of exclusivity in religion. Patrick offers strategies for increasing interfaith dialogue and rethinking the prevalent notion of the 'one true church' to embrace a more inclusive approach. Part two of our conversation with Patrick Mason, is available exclusively on our Patreon at patreon.com/thatschurch. For more insights and discussions, follow us on Instagram @thatschurchpodcast. Don't miss this season's exploration of faith, challenges, and the pathways to unity. For those interested in delving deeper into Patrick Mason's works, check out his books, "Planted," "Restoration" and “Proclaim Peace” which provide additional context and understanding of his views on faith and community engagement. Planted: Belief and Belonging in an Age of Doubt - https://a.co/d/9WapToz Restoration: God's Call to the 21st-Century World https://a.co/d/hdFfMiy Proclaim Peace: The Restoration's Answer to an Age of Conflict. https://a.co/d/hVXQpmu

• Onkar and Bryn’s backgrounds and how their faith traditions shaped their upbringing.

• The story of how they met and how their love of chocolate chip cookies sparked their connection.

• Navigating a mixed-faith marriage, with Onkar’s Hindu and Bryn’s LDS beliefs, and the importance of respect and mutual understanding.

• How they’re raising their daughter, Jasmira, with a foundation that honors both faiths, including shared values of community and spirituality.

• The significance of traditions like refraining from eating meat on Tuesdays in honor of Hanuman, and how these practices foster a sense of identity and belonging.

• Their personal practices for connecting with God and spirituality outside of church, such as experiencing the beauty of nature, music, and the simple joys of family life.

• Bryn’s poignant story of finding strength through the presence of her ancestors and her journey of developing a personalized relationship with God.

• Onkar’s reflections on prayer as a source of peace and guidance, especially during difficult times, and the importance of feeling connected to something greater.

• Funny and heartfelt moments, including Bryn’s unforgettable story of locking herself in a bathroom while nannying!

Follow us on Instagram @thatschurchpodcast

Show Notes: Mary Wagner | Part 2: Raised on a Reservation

In this episode of That's Church Podcast, we continue our conversation with Mary Wagner, delving into her experiences growing up on a Native American reservation and the cultural challenges she faced. Mary shares how her upbringing influenced her spiritual connection with nature and how these experiences shaped her worldview.

Episode Highlights:

- **Challenges and Cultural Shock on a Native American Reservation:** Mary discusses the unique challenges she encountered growing up and the cultural shocks she faced when interacting with the broader society.

- **The Spiritual Connection of Nature and the Beach:** Mary explains how spending time on the beach, communing with the sand and waves, provides her with a deep spiritual connection and a sense of peace.

- **Understanding and Respecting Different Religious Beliefs:** Insightful discussion on how diverse religious beliefs can coexist and the importance of respect and understanding in a multicultural environment.

- **Egalitarian Roles Between Men and Women Before the Industrial Revolution:** A look into how gender roles were more balanced in Native American societies prior to industrialization.

- **ICWA - The Indian Child Welfare Act:** Discussing the significance of ICWA and the ongoing challenges faced by indigenous people in conforming to a predominantly white world.

- **Home Schooling and Alternative Learning Within Religion:** Mary shares her experiences with home schooling and the alternative educational approaches within her religious community.

- **Mary’s Standing in Her Religion and What Eternity Means to Her: Exploring Mary’s personal beliefs and what the concept of eternity means in her spiritual journey.

- **Lessons from the Reservation:** Mary reveals the two most important lessons she learned from her time on the reservation.

- **Thoughts on the LGBTQ Community:** An open discussion on the LGBTQ community, sharing perspectives and fostering understanding.

- **The Role of Women in Caregiving:** Discussing how women often neglect their own well-being because they are focused on taking care of everyone else, and the importance of self-care.

- **Conforming to Ideals and Standardized Testing:** Examining the pressures of conforming to societal ideals and the impact of standardized testing on individual expression.

- **Appreciating Differences:** The importance of valuing and respecting the unique contributions that everyone brings to the table.

- **Environmental Consciousness:** Exploring ways we can be more conscious of taking care of our earth and actions we can take to make the world a better place.

Mentioned in This Episode:

- Hulu: Reservation Dogs (https://www.hulu.com/series/reservation-dogs)

- Netflix: Frybread Face (https://www.netflix.com/)

- Books:

- *The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian by Sherman Alexie

(https://a.co/d/0eHzMZq)* - A National Book Award Winner exploring life on a reservation.

- *I Don't Want to Talk About It: Overcoming the Secret Legacy of Male Depression by Terrence Real (https://www.amazon.com/dp/0684835398)* - A groundbreaking book on male depression and emotional healing.

Follow Mary Wagner:

- Instagram: @azsunshine_mom

(https://www.instagram.com/azsunshine_mom?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==)

Follow Us:

Stay connected with us on Instagram [@thatschurchpodcast](https://www.instagram.com/thatschurchpodcast) for updates, behind-the-scenes content, and more!

Listen Now:

Tune in to this enriching episode to gain a deeper understanding of Navajo culture and the significant c

is a licensed clinical social worker, psychotherapist, relationship expert, performing songwriter, and owner of Wasatch Family Therapy. She specializes in women’s emotional health, relationship struggles, and guiding individuals and couples through faith transitions, mixed-faith dynamics, and spiritual identity shifts. Dr. Hanks empowers others to find their voice, maintain healthy boundaries, and cultivate thriving relationships rooted in authentic values.

Topics Covered:

• ​Turning mixed-faith marriage challenges into growth opportunities
• ​Differentiating core values from religious behaviors and practices
• ​Navigating patriarchal religious cultures to find personal empowerment
• ​Setting healthy boundaries in spiritual and family relationships
• ​Understanding the difference between spirituality and religiosity
• ​Practical steps for maintaining meaningful connections through faith shifts
• ​The importance of self-definition and reclaiming personal identity

Resources & Events:

• ​January Mixed-Faith Couples Group:

Sign up here

Join Dr. Hanks this January for a specialized program helping couples communicate effectively, bridge understanding, and maintain connection amid differing faith perspectives.

Connect with Dr. Julie Hanks:

• ​Website: www.drjuliehanks.com
• ​Instagram: @drjuliehanks
• ​Wasatch Family Therapy: www.wasatchfamilytherapy.com (Serving Utah and select states)
• ​Podcast: Ask Dr. Julie Hanks (available on major podcast platforms)
• ​
• ​Book: The Assertiveness Guide for Women

Connect with Us (That’s Church):

• ​Hosts: Emilie Call & Ashlie Sanders
• ​Subscribe and review That’s Church on your favorite platform and follow us on social media for more conversations that help bridge understanding, encourage growth, and inspire authentic connection.

You will get unique perspectives from BELIEVERS and NONBELIEVERS!

Ashlie Sanders and Emilie Call are joined by their brother Jake Coon, his wife Mandy Coon, and their friend Cheryl Stout to dive deep into the powerful and polarizing new movie Heretic. The film follows two LDS sister missionaries who visit an investigator’s home, only to encounter a surprising challenge to their faith as he introduces them to a religion he claims is the “one true faith.”

Ashlie and Emilie bring their perspectives as active members of the LDS Church, while Jake, Mandy, and Cheryl—former members who are now post-Mormon—offer unique insights from their personal spiritual journeys. With Emilie and Jake having both served LDS missions as young adults, the group brings a depth of understanding and lived experience to the discussion, exploring how the film resonates across a spectrum of beliefs.

This spoiler-heavy discussion includes:

• The central themes of Heretic and its thought-provoking portrayal of faith exploration.

• A breakdown of the movie’s take on truth, belief, and spirituality.

• Insights from active LDS members and post-Mormons with unique spiritual journeys.

• Reactions from those within the LDS Church, former members, and people of other faiths.

⚠️ Spoiler Alert: Watch Heretic before listening if you want to avoid spoilers!

This conversation is sure to leave you reflecting on faith, truth, and the human search for meaning. And don’t forget—our next episode features Cheryl Stout, where we delve into her deeply personal philosophies and inspiring spiritual journey.

Follow us on Instagram ⁠@thatschurchpodcast⁠ for updates, and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts to make sure you never miss an episode!

They discuss their views on religions in general as they start to wrap things up for Season One and prepare for Season Two of That's Church.

This episode was rushed but is very raw and their true feelings and emotions.

Don't worry they still have 2 more interviews, a bonus episode and a 3 to 4 part series coming up with the Community of Christ before the season ends.

Dr. Mason will also be speaking live at A That’s Church Experience on November 2nd from 5 PM - 8 PM at the Compass Gallery in Provo, Utah. He will be one of the presenters, along with four other amazing presenters from different faiths. 🌟 Don’t miss this incredible opportunity to hear him and others share their insights on interfaith connections and community.

Patrick Mason, a renowned author and scholar, brings profound insights into navigating faith in today’s complex world. As the author of influential works like Planted and Restoration, he offers wisdom on building bridges across faith communities with empathy and understanding. Patrick is also the co-host of the new podcast Proclaim Peace, produced by Mormon Women for Ethical Government and Faith Matters. The podcast explores ways to foster appreciation and connection between different faith traditions.

In this episode, Patrick discusses practical steps for engaging productively with the world and cultivating inclusivity within religious cultures. He also tackles sensitive topics like the role of women in the LDS church and rethinking the narrative of religious exclusivity to promote interfaith dialogue. Listen to Part 2 of this conversation for free and dive deeper into Patrick’s thought-provoking ideas on how we can address big issues with measurable solutions.

• Planted: Belief and Belonging in an Age of Doubt - https://a.co/d/9WapToz
• Restoration: God's Call to the 21st-Century World https://a.co/d/hdFfMiy
• Proclaim Peace: The Restoration's Answer to an Age of Conflict. https://a.co/d/hVXQpmu

We talk about the Festival of Colors and its origins. 🎨✨

How Vai and Caru met and what brought them to Krishna Consciousness.✨

We discuss Krishna practices through the lens of our LDS backgrounds.✨

We share a bit about ourselves and what inspired us to create this podcast.✨

We really enjoyed discussing the nuances of each other’s religions — it was a fascinating and thought-provoking conversation. Jeff shares his experiences visiting LDS services, his views on connection, love, and the importance of growing through tension.

We discuss:

• Jeff’s inspiring sermon at Sego Church in South Jordan, Utah

• Commonalities and differences between evangelical and LDS beliefs

• How interfaith conversations build understanding

• Facing fear and embracing growth through discomfort

• Jeff’s personal journey into building his very viral Youtube channel and exploring the LDS faith

Jeff’s peaceful approach to building bridges across religious communities reminds us of the beauty of unity over uniformity.

Guest: Pastor Jeff McCullough – Hello Saints on YouTube

Watch Jeff’s channel: Hello Saints YouTube

Follow Us:

Instagram: @thatschurchpodcast

Podcast Episodes: Available on all major platforms

In this episode, we sit down with Cheryl Stout, a former member of the LDS Church who has embraced a journey of self-discovery and spiritual exploration. Cheryl shares her perspectives on:

• Alan Watts’s metaphor of God as the ocean and us as the waves.

• Exploring existentialism, absurdism, and the quest for personal meaning.

• Her experience navigating faith deconstruction and finding empowerment in self-agency.

• The importance of adaptability, creating your own map of reality, and embracing growth.

• Connecting with others authentically and finding acceptance beyond traditional frameworks.

This conversation is packed with thought-provoking ideas and heartfelt reflections on what it means to live authentically and create your own purpose.

Mentioned in This Episode:

• Alan Watts’s philosophies

• Sisyphus and the absurdity of life

• The challenges and rewards of spiritual deconstruction

Connect With Us:

• Instagram: @thatschurchpodcast

We’d love to hear your thoughts—what stood out to you in this episode? Share your reflections and join the conversation!

How do you find spiritual independence after 30 years behind the pulpit? David Hayward (The NakedPastor) joins Emilie and Ashlie to discuss the "slow melt" of deconstruction, the power of art to bypass our defenses, and how to find community when you’ve left the "furnace of fellowship" behind.

Key Highlights

• The Growth Rings: Why your religious past is an essential part of your story, not something to be ashamed of.

• The Wheel of Oneness: A visual guide to why the closer we get to the "truth," the more we realize we are all connected.

• Challenging the Patriarchy: Why David’s feminist art often triggers the most controversy and why he refuses to stop drawing it.

• Life After Church: Navigating the loneliness of leaving and learning that you don't have to be an "open book" to everyone to find real friends.

Resources & Links

• David’s Website: nakedpastor.com

• Online Community: The Lasting Supper

• Book Mentioned: The Liberation of Sophia by David Hayward

• Follow David: @nakedpastor on Instagram

Connect With Us

• Instagram: @thatschurch

• Website: thatschurch.org

What You’ll Hear in This Episode:

• Emilie Call & Anne Pimentel: An opening on the spiritual gift of women carrying one another’s burdens and the mission of That's Church.

• Rebecca Young: A guided meditation on the "Sovereign Mormon" and the interconnectedness of God's children.

• Amy Watkins Jensen: On the "premise of flourishing," using the examples of Oprah and Queen Esther to illustrate obedience to a personal divine call.

• Maxine Hanks: A deep dive into the theology of agency and the paradox of maintaining a private relationship with God while navigating the social path of belonging.

• McArthur Krishna: The "How-To" of sovereignty—starting before you're ready, embracing discomfort, and the power of teaching sovereignty to the next generation.

Key Quotes:

• "When individual women flourish, whole communities thrive." — Amy Watkins Jensen

• "Sovereignty is both the right and the responsibility to use our divine agency to bring forth our divinity." — Maxine Hanks

• "If you can’t practice sovereignty on your own behalf, you can certainly teach it." — McArthur Krishna

Don’t forget to attend our Interfaith Event on November 2nd at the Compass Gallery! Tickets are available at tinyurl.com/thatschurch, and use the code MEAGANSKIDMORECOACHING for 50% off.

You can listen to all of Meagan’s inspiring conversations on her podcast Beyond the Shadow of Doubt wherever you find your podcasts.

Follow us on Instagram: @thatschurchpodcast.

They explain how they found Krishna Consciousness, and how they’ve used it to bless the lives of many.✨

We find out the meaning behind the popular Festival of Colors✨🎨

They share the secret to their marriage & success. ✨👫

Caru talks about his respect for the LDS Church, and how he can relate to its members. ✨

We learn how Vai’s love for art and drawing led to the design of the Krishna Temples. ✨✍🏼

🕊️He discusses and explains some of the misconceptions about Islam. 

☪️ Learn along with us about the Five Pillars of Islam and the Pilgrimage to Mecca. 

👏Join us next week to understand more about their beliefs in Jesus Christ, Muhammad and much more.

Join us for an Interfaith Event on November 2nd at the Compass Gallery from 5 PM to 8 PM. Tickets are available at tinyurl.com/thatschurch, and our listeners can get 50% off with Code: MEAGANSKIDMORECOACHING.

You can also listen to all of Meagan’s amazing conversations on her podcast Beyond the Shadow of Doubt wherever you find your podcasts.

Follow us on Instagram: @thatschurchpodcast.

“I’ll Stay Where You Want Me To Stay”: How Latter-day Saints Navigate Conflicting Social Values While Remaining Committed to Their Faith.

This was the Thesis Venice spent years of research and case work on and we will benefit from her conclusions.

Summary 

Venice Jardine, a social cultural anthropologist, discusses her research on how Latter-day Saints navigate conflicting social values while remaining committed to their faith. She explains that sociocultural anthropology focuses on the study of present-day cultures and how people interact within them. Venice shares her own faith journey and how she came to focus on this particular area of research. She highlights the importance of community and divinity ethics in the LDS Church and how they contribute to the decision to stay in the faith. Venice also emphasizes the significance of having non-judgmental support and a sense of belonging within the community. In this part of the conversation, Ashlie and Venice discuss the importance of speaking and listening to process emotions and struggles. They emphasize the need for empathy and validation when someone opens up about their difficulties. They also discuss the value of living simply and prioritizing values. Venice shares her research experiences in France and Thailand, highlighting the differences in culture and the challenges of being empathetic within one's own culture. Venice Jardine discusses the importance of empathy and understanding in building bridges between different faiths and cultures. She shares her experience as an anthropologist and how it has helped her step into someone else's shoes and appreciate their beliefs and experiences. Venice emphasizes the need to listen, be curious, and avoid assumptions when engaging with others. She also highlights the diversity within the LDS Church and encourages individuals to find their own unique expression of faith. Venice shares a personal embarrassing story and mentions her favorite places to live, including Germany and Thailand.

Takeaways

Sociocultural anthropology focuses on the study of present-day cultures and how people interact within them.

The LDS Church emphasizes community and divinity ethics, which contribute to the decision to stay in the faith.

Having non-judgmental support and a sense of belonging within the community is crucial for individuals navigating conflicting social values.

Verbalizing one's beliefs and struggles can be therapeutic and help individuals solidify their faith.

Service and contributing to the community are important aspects of staying in the LDS Church. Speaking and listening are important for processing emotions and struggles.

Empathy and validation are crucial when someone opens up about their difficulties.

Living simply and prioritizing values can bring greater fulfillment.

Cultural differences can present challenges in being empathetic.

Research experiences in different cultures can enhance understanding and empathy. Empathy and understanding are essential in building bridges between different faiths and cultures.

Listening and being curious about others' beliefs and experiences can lead to greater understanding and connection.

Avoid making assumptions and be open to learning from different perspectives.

The LDS Church is diverse, and there are many different ways of expressing and living faith within the community.

Personal experiences and stories can help break down barriers and foster empathy.

Keywords

social cultural anthropology, faith journey, conflicting social values, commitment to faith, community, divinity ethics, LDS Church, non-judgmental support, sense of belonging, speaking, listening, processing, empathy, validation, living simply, values, culture, research, empathy, understanding, building bridges, faith, culture, anthropology, diversity, LDS Church, listening, curiosity, assumptions.

✨We talk to Father Paul about Pre-earth life and after death. 

✨ Father Paul talks about mercy and forgiveness and important life lessons. 

Mary also delves into the economic self-sufficiency of the Navajo Nation, particularly the role of casinos, and the harmful consequences of forced assimilation faced by Native American communities. This episode sheds light on the challenges and cultural shock encountered when transitioning from a native reservation to a mainstream society.

Chapters:

00:00 - Growing Up on the Navajo Reservation

00:17 - Contrasting Environments: Reservation vs. White Patriarchal Christianity

30:45 - Economic Self-Sufficiency: The Role of Casinos

40:15 - The Harmful Consequences of Forced Assimilation

50:00 - Challenges and Cultural Shock on a Native American Reservation

Mentioned in This Episode:

Hulu: Reservation Dogs

Netflix: Frybread Face

Book: The Absolutely True Diary of a Part time Indian by Sherman Alexie The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian (National Book Award Winner) https://a.co/d/0eHzMZq

Book: I Don't Want to Talk About It: Overcoming the Secret Legacy of Male Depression by Terrence Real

Mary's Instagram: @azsunshine_mom

https://www.instagram.com/azsunshine_mom?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Our Instagram: @thatschurchpodcast

https://www.instagram.com/thatschurchpodcast

Follow Us:

Stay connected with us on Instagram @thatschurchpodcast

(https://www.instagram.com/thatschurchpodcast) for updates, behind-the-scenes content, and more!

Listen Now: Tune in to this enriching episode to gain a deeper understanding of the Navajo culture and the significant contrasts between different societal structures. Don't miss out on Mary's captivating storytelling and the valuable insights she provides.

Pastor Steve Bond is an ordained pastor in the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America (the ELCA).  The ELCA is the largest Lutheran Body in the United States and is often labeled the more progressive of the three largest Lutheran denominations in the U.S. (the Lutheran Church -- Missouri Synod and Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod being the other two denominations.) There are around 150 different Lutheran Church bodies around the world.

All Lutherans adhere to the theology of Martin Luther, a 16th Century German Roman Catholic monk whose efforts to reform the Roman Catholic church of his day led to the Protestant Reformation.  The term Lutheran was originally a derogatory term used by those who considered the teachings of Martin Luther to be heretical. Martin Luther himself disliked the name “Lutheran” preferring to call the movement “Evangelical” which comes from the Greek word meaning “Good News”. (as a side note – the use of the term “Evangelical” to identify a type of Christianity that tends to be aligned with a particular political party or, that are fundamentalist in their understanding of scripture, or that proclaim a “born again” experience is necessary for salvation) is a development in the latter part of the 20th century in the United States and are not usually associated with the Lutheran Church.

Martin Luther sought to reform a church that had lifted up the teachings and traditions of “The Church” and placed them on par with God’s word revealed in Scripture.  Lutherans, to this day, believe that salvation or justification is by God’s Grace alone through faith alone on the basis of Scripture alone. All of this is because of God’s great love for us revealed to us through Jesus Christ’s crucifixion  and resurrection from the dead.

NEXT EPISODE:

Catch our next episode with Mary Wagner - She shares her experience growing up on the Navajo reservation, highlighting the cultural diversity and spiritual beliefs she was exposed to. She emphasizes the matriarchal society and the strong sense of community on the reservation. Mary also discusses the contrast between her upbringing on the reservation and the white patriarchal Christianity she encountered outside of it. 

SHOWNOTES on this fascinating episode with Pastor Steve:

The Lutheran church has made efforts to become a reconciling in Christ congregation, accepting and affirming the LGBTQ+ community.

The process of becoming a reconciling in Christ congregation involved education, discussion, and a congregational vote.

While some members may leave due to the church's acceptance of the LGBTQ+ community, many others are attracted to the inclusive environment.

The church has also made efforts to include and reach out to other marginalized groups, such as Native Americans, Jews, and evangelicals..

Both denominations face challenges such as declining attendance and changing cultures, but the importance of love and acceptance remains crucial.

Younger generations are driving the demand for inclusivity and are shaping the future of religion.

The conversation emphasizes the need for open-mindedness, empathy, and a willingness to adapt to the evolving needs of society. The misinterpretation of scriptures has been used to discriminate against the LGBTQ community in religious communities.

Love should be the central message of Christianity, and it should take precedence over judgment and exclusion.

We are no longer using Patreon, but you can subscribe directly through Apple Podcasts or Spotify for additional locked episodes. On Apple, you have the option to listen with a 3-day free trial, and after that, it’s only $2.99 a month on both Apple and Spotify or $24.99 for the YEAR. 

Just click the lock button where you’d normally hit play and it walks you through the steps. 

Be sure to check your email to finish the subscription on Spotify.

Follow us on Instagram @thatschurchpodcast

We also love the conversation with Brittany Mangelson and Jason Eyre through this and part 1 and 2. The evolving relationship between Jen and God  The feelings of safety as a trans woman.  Using public restrooms as a transgender female woman.  Advice for trans youth Jen’s blog and raw truth Finding joy in authenticity Being an Ally and creating safe spaces Dealing with judgement and family disapproval Homeless teens Find the answer to our question ”What would you change about your religion?” Advice for members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints We discuss what we all thing the world needs more of.  See Jen’s Blog at BenorJen.blogspot.com CofChrist.org - menu under Grow tab there’s an icon that says find a church to find a congregation near you.  Find an online zoom ministry  ProjectZion Podcast is a Community of Christ Podcast.  Salt Lake congregation meets every Sunday at 10AM with Worship at 11AM Ogden congregation meets first and third Sunday of the Month at 10:45AM  848 E 700 So. Ogden  Provo small group Congregation that meet at St. Mary’s Episcopal Church every Sunday at 3:30PM.  An informal group in St. George can be found on their website - ask for Nancy Ross

In this episode, join us on our delightful visit to a Salt Lake City synagogue! 🏰 Emilie reflects on her mission days, sharing a hilarious moment involving actress Alicia Silverstone. 🌟 We unravel unexpected encounters, savor the deliciousness of baklava, and bask in the warm embrace of the Jewish community. 🤝 Let's laugh, learn, and connect in this insightful journey into a different place of worship! 🎙️✨ #InterfaithAdventures #JourneyOfLaughter #SynagogueStories

📖 A bit about the Qur'an (Koran) and the 6 Tenants of Faith within the Islamic Religion.

⛪️ Get a glimpse into many similarities of Islam and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

🕊️ Imam Shuaib Din's personal connection to God.

♥️✨🕊️ Participate in a beautiful Islamic prayer with us.

⭐️ Our explanation of our podcast and Ashlie's Nuanced Mormon Account on instagram within our bloopers.

Dr. Jessica Spence Moss — Executive Director of the Interfaith Youth Alliance, professor, and Latter-day Saint whose work helps youth use faith and values as a moral compass for service and compassion.

In this episode:

• How interfaith work strengthens, not threatens, faith

• The difference between serving and proselyting

• Helping youth find meaning through connection and discomfort

• Why learning others’ “spiritual languages” can deepen our own

• The power of showing up with love and humility in divided times

Mentioned in this episode:

• Interfaith Youth Alliance

• Interfaith Youth Alliance on Instagram

Upcoming with That’s Church:

• 🌍 From Bias to Belonging: An Interfaith Call to Compassion — Friday, December 6 at Compass Gallery. Join Rabbi Sam Spector and Imam Shuaib Din as they share the stage for a courageous and hopeful conversation about unity and peacemaking during a time of global tension.

• 📚 That’s Church Book Club — explore faith, growth, and belonging with us.

• ⛪ Christmas Eve Field Trip — a peaceful morning visiting a local congregation together.

Connect with That’s Church:

🌐 thatschurch.org

📸 @thatschurchpodcast

🧕🏼How women feel about being separated from the men at during Islamic services. 

🩷 The meaning of a Hijab and the choice to wear it. 

🕊️Do's and Don't for Muslim Women and Men within Islam. Can they drink Alcohol? Eat Pork? Find out in this episode with Maysa Kergaye. 

✨Maysa's favorite quotes. 

⭐️ Refugee needs and Maysa's support and work within their community. 

♥️✨🕊️ After we finished with our planned questions we had more. Listen to our conversation after we all thought we were done. We couldn't share it all on record but it was so fascinating. We are so grateful for our new friendship with Maysa. She is truly a gem. 

• Casey’s experience attending 50+ churches with his wife and kids

• What interfaith experiences taught him about faith and empathy

• The power of curiosity in healing spiritual and cultural divides

• Why he believes God “has no favorites”

• Reflections on sacred texts like the Bhagavad Gita and the Qur’an

• His upcoming Italy tours and Superstition Tour with Patrick Mason

• His role on our new That’s Church nonprofit board as Executive Research Board Member

Follow Casey & Learn More:

• Instagram: @pioneeringparadox

• Travel Tours & Updates: www.iamcasey.com/travel

💛 Our mission is to build bridges between Utah’s many diverse religious communities. 

🩷 We’re inspired by our grandparents' mixed-faith marriage. Grandma Maxine always said “there is good in all religions” 

💛 Their example of love, and mutual respect, inspires us to reach beyond our LDS backgrounds and embrace different ideas and truths. 

🩷 President Gordon B. Hinckley said, “To anybody who is not of this Church, I say we recognize all of the virtues and the good that you have. Bring it with you and see if we might add to it." We’re hopeful that through this process we can all add a little more light and goodness to our own spiritual journeys. 

💛 Here on That’s Church!, we explore how our friends and neighbors experience spirituality, find sanctuary for their souls, and define church for them.

Follow us on Instagram @thatschurchpodcast

Michelle also talks about her meaningful work as a crisis counselor with The Trevor Project, as well as her passions for music, soapmaking, hiking, pickleball, and, of course, spending time with her beloved dogs.

Topics Covered:

• Michelle’s six-generation LDS heritage and life in Southern Idaho

• Her and Bob’s shared faith transition and finding a new spiritual community

• The creation of her Instagram account, @edge_of_inside, and its impact

• Redefining religion, God, and meaning-making post-LDS life

• Volunteering with The Trevor Project and its personal rewards

• Finding joy in hobbies and everyday life

Resources Mentioned:

• Michelle’s Instagram: @edge_of_inside

• First Congregational United Church of Christ

• The Trevor Project

Connect With Us:

• Instagram: @thatschurchpodcast

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Kelly shares what it was like growing up in a strict, high-demand religion in the South as a biracial girl navigating racism, rigid expectations, and a culture where worthiness was tied to perfection. Raised by a mother deeply committed to the church, Kelly learned early on what it meant to follow the rules, suppress questions, and internalize shame.

As a teenager, Kelly faced an experience that would alter the course of her life—one marked by isolation, fear, and a lack of support at a moment when she needed it most. Rather than breaking her, that moment became the catalyst for her spiritual awakening and her first real experience of feeling seen, protected, and deeply valued.

In this episode, Kelly opens up about:

• Growing up biracial in predominantly white religious spaces

• Shame culture, perfectionism, and conditional love

• Separating God from organized religion

• Trauma, healing, and trusting intuition

• Parenting with agency and compassion

• Breaking generational cycles

• Building a meaningful life rooted in authenticity

Today, Kelly parents five kids as a single mom and owns her own salon in Draper, Utah. Her children are her entire world, and her story is a testament to resilience, self-trust, and choosing love over fear.

We hope to see you at our annual Women's Event on March 7, 2026. Doors open at 5:30PM and the event start at 6PM and goes until 8:30PM. It will be held at The Compass Gallery in Provo Utah.

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