Leah Corrigan, Outdoor Law. Leah is a former river guide and one of the industry's leading liability attorneys. She explains the connection between large jury verdicts, lawsuits that can't be ended early, and insurers leaving the market. She covers:

• Summary judgment: the "early exit" from a lawsuit, and why it discourages suits that shouldn't be filed.
• Waivers vs. inherent risk: how enforceable waivers and inherent-risk statutes work as two separate routes to that early exit.
• Custom waivers: why your waiver is the foundation of your protection and shouldn't be boilerplate or written by AI.
• Three states:
  • Oregon: Bagley v. Mt. Bachelor (2014) and the passage of SB 1517
  • Arizona: HB 2279, a narrow bill for Grand Canyon river outfitters
  • Idaho: fixing a "public duty" loophole in the courts' reading of state law

She closes with a playbook: first analyze whether your state has the problem, then persuade legislators with real stories instead of legal jargon.

John Dillon, Grand Canyon River Outfitters Association. John tells the political story behind Arizona's HB 2279. It came after a multi-year push that got the National Park Service to end its 40-year ban on liability waivers in 2025. He covers:

• Why they limited the bill to Grand Canyon outfitters
• Taking on the trial lawyers first
• Negotiating the opposition down to neutral
• Going from a split House vote to a unanimous Senate vote in a single session
• Why a one-page bill and a credible outfitter messenger made the difference

Pete Wallstrom, Momentum River Expeditions. Pete describes how Oregon's reform failed three times before passing in 2026. What changed:

• A broad coalition of ski areas, gyms, outfitters, municipalities and environmental groups
• Everyone sticking to the same talking points
• Oregon's first outfitter lobby day

His advice to outfitters in other states: organize, find allies, give lawmakers "the big why," and build relationships with legislators before you need them.

• 00:05 – Intro
• 01:58 – Leah Corrigan: from river guide to trial lawyer
• 05:05 – What's driving liability reform: insurance availability and big verdicts
• 12:15 – Summary judgment, explained
• 15:50 – Bagley v. Mt. Bachelor and Oregon's insurance crisis
• 24:42 – Inherent-risk statutes vs. waiver enforceability
• 31:44 – Why your waiver shouldn't be boilerplate
• 37:19 – Oregon SB 1517: what passed and its gaps
• 46:54 – Arizona HB 2279: narrow scope and constitutional hurdles
• 58:24 – Idaho: closing the "public duty" loophole
• 1:03:39 – Storytelling beats legalese
• 1:08:02 – Is your state exposed? Where to start
• 1:19:25 – John Dillon, GCROA
• 1:25:39 – From NPS waiver approval to state law
• 1:36:33 – The messaging that worked in Arizona
• 1:44:45 – Taking on the trial lawyers first
• 2:00:46 – Keep it simple: a one-page bill
• 2:03:10 – Pete Wallstrom, Momentum River Expeditions
• 2:07:42 – Why Oregon's bill stalled for years
• 2:18:43 – Building a coalition, environmental groups included
• 2:22:42 – Advice for outfitters in other states
• 2:34:26 – Lobby days and building relationships
• 2:37:01 – Outro and member renewal

Fire & Water: The Boundary Waters Canoe Area closed entirely for the first time since 2021 due to wildfire, with rangers paddling out to notify campers. Montana imposed hoot-owl fishing restrictions on the Madison River; Idaho outfitters are proactively avoiding afternoon trips in some drainages, though water levels are holding up better than expected after heavy spring rain. Western drought continues to hammer flows in states like Colorado.

Utah Monuments: Bears Ears and Grand Staircase-Escalante lost roughly 90% of their protected acreage. The hosts clarify that permits and hunting/fishing access aren't directly affected in the short term, but flag long-term risks around travel management plan changes, loss of marketing appeal, and the dissolution of the Bears Ears Commission in favor of a broader advisory body.

USFS Directives Modernization: A major focus — the Forest Service proposal to make manuals the only binding authority while demoting handbooks (where most outfitter-guide provisions currently live) to non-binding guidance. They discuss the risk to permit renewal expectations, fee structures, and service-day definitions, and describe their in-progress comment work to anchor key protections in binding rule text.

BLM Wilderness Manuals: Comment period open until August 14 on manuals covering categorical exclusion bars, NEPA consistency with the EXPLORE Act, and the vague "extent necessary" standard for authorizing commercial services in wilderness.

ESA/Wildlife: The redefinition of "harm" under the ESA (removing habitat-modification from take), new grizzly bear management rules giving states more authority over problem-bear response (without delisting or hunting), and two competing bills addressing sea lion predation on Columbia River salmon runs.

Deadlines rundown: A rapid-fire list of upcoming comment deadlines from July 22 through 2027, covering Forest Service directives, BLM travel management plans, monument mineral entry dates, and SBA disaster loan deadlines.

Aaron opens with an update on AO's new endorsed insurance program through CBiz Adventure Sports, offering AO members up to 10% off core coverage premiums — a direct response to survey data showing over 90% of outfitters saw premiums rise or coverage drop in the past year. From there, the conversation moves to the Outfitter and Guide Relief (ORG) Act, AO's effort to carve outfitters and guides out of FLSA overtime requirements that have forced operators to cut guide hours and jack up prices. A Senate companion bill from Sen. Steve Daines is imminent, and guide testimonials from affected workers are urgently needed.

The two then break down the roadless rule situation — three parallel tracks (House legislation, Senate amendment to the Wildfire Prevention Act via Sen. Mike Lee, and USDA administrative repeal) — and what outfitters should actually be doing right now. They close the policy roundup with an Arizona liability waiver win: legislation signed by Governor Hobbs that clarifies the enforceability of waivers and inherent risk doctrine, similar to what Idaho passed previously.

The interview with Jess Turner is the centerpiece. She walks through the just-completed Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee markup of the America the Beautiful Act — a $10 billion Legacy Restoration Fund reauthorization that passed without a single nay vote in one of the most divided committees in Congress. She explains what that money actually does (deferred maintenance on trails, boat launches, campgrounds, visitor infrastructure), how the House version includes a 15% recreation/sportsman carve-out that may not survive the conference, and what the foreign visitor fee issue means for outfitters taking international clients. Timeline: potentially signed before July 4th.

The back half of the interview pivots to ORR's America's Outdoor Era health initiative — the argument that outdoor recreation is an upstream, preventative healthcare solution, and the emerging policy and private-sector pathways (HSA/FSA reform, employer benefits programs, hospital partnerships, medical provider training) to formalize that connection. Jess also walks through how ORR maintains its massive, diverse coalition by staying out of place-based conflicts and focusing on process, business stability, and the issues where everyone agrees.

The episode closes with news that Iowa became the 25th state to establish an Office of Outdoor Recreation, and a reminder to mark calendars for the IOGA Annual Meeting (December 1–3, Tamarack Resort) and the America Outdoors Conference and Expo (December 8–11, Oklahoma City).