Episode 1: Fr. Jim Martin and Tim Busch on Friendship, Division, and Dinner

Fr. James Martin, SJ and Timothy Busch have been portrayed by Catholic media as polar opposites. Neither man thinks that framing is accurate, and for seven years, quietly, they've been proving it wrong through private salon dinners: small gatherings of Catholics from across the ideological spectrum, built around Mass, the Rosary, a shared meal, and a favorite scripture verse.

In this inaugural Conversations in Communion episode, host Jonathan Lewis welcomes Fr. Jim and Tim for an honest, wide-ranging conversation about faith, friendship, and what it takes to stay in communion with people you're supposed to disagree with.

Key Moments

[00:08] The Friendship Nobody Expected
Seven years of honest conversation between two men Catholic media placed on opposite ends of the spectrum.
Catholic unity · polarization · dialogue across difference

[13:44] The Salon Dinners
Mass, the Rosary, dinner, a scripture verse. No debate. No agenda. Just people becoming less than strangers — and a possible model for the broader Church.
Community · bridge-building · synodality · parish renewal

[20:09] Formation Stories
Tim rode his bike to daily Tridentine Mass as a third-grader in Michigan. Fr. Jim had an encounter with God in a Pennsylvania meadow he couldn't name until years later.
Catholic formation · vocation · Jesuit spirituality

[24:27] The Mass That Changes Everything
Spiritual warfare, ordination Masses, liturgy with refugees in Nairobi, and what the words of consecration ask of us.
Eucharist · real presence · transubstantiation · liturgy

[31:22] What Breaks Their Hearts — and What Fills Them
Both say division. But Tim points to the largest surge in baptisms and confirmations in 25 years as evidence the Holy Spirit isn't finished with the Church.
Church renewal · sex abuse crisis · hope

[35:41] Pope Francis, Pope Leo XIV, and Unity
Fr. Jim knew Pope Francis personally and participated in the Synod on Synodality. Both men read Leo XIV's early papacy as a continuation — with unity as its defining note.
Pope Leo XIV · Pope Francis · Synod on Synodality

[45:51] The Church's Moral Authority in a Fractured World
On AI ethics, just war, and why the Vatican keeps drawing people who don't share the faith: two thousand years of moral theology is already there.
AI · just war · moral theology · Catholic social teaching

[51:58] Where They Actually Disagree
Sexual ethics, the role of government, Dorothy Day versus Mother Teresa. Communion doesn't require uniformity.
Catholic social teaching · subsidiarity · political diversity

[01:00:45] Advice for Catholics in the Pews
Tim: pray. Fr. Jim: listen without preparing your rebuttal. Be humble enough to be wrong.
Discipleship · dialogue · humility · prayer

Fr. James Martin, SJ is a Jesuit priest, editor-at-large of America Magazine, and author of Building a Bridge, Learning to Pray, and Work in Progress.

Timothy Busch is founder of the Napa Institute and co-founder of the Busch School of Business at The Catholic University of America.